What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Murozaki]

19 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Because Chrom doesn't deserve being punched, at all and it's not funny and all the in-game characters treats it like it's funny when it's not.

Because again, the joke isn't that Chrom "deserves" to be punched, the joke is literally the fact it shatters the mood the scene had until then, Sumia herself apologizes immediately and the other characters laught not because "Hey Chrom is such a loser" but because again, it was completley out of nowhere.

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Besides, Chrom doesn't actually do anything to play into Gangrel's game, Emmeryn is the one who makes every bad call that allows the war to go off.

• Reduced Army so he can literally send in bandits constantly and get away with kidnapping Mariabelle out of essentially guilt for the past.
• Played into Gangrel's trap, literally only survived because Chrom protected her in self-defense, somehow thinking talking things through would work with Gangrel. (Who's clearly beyond that.)

Chrom

He uhh....killed a dude in self-defense going to kill Emmeryn? AKA: Gangrel already effectively declared war.

Chrom played into nothing, unless you're effectively going to victim blame for self-defense, was he angry? sure, did he effectively do anything that escalated stuff? Not at all unless you think he should have just let Emmeryn get shanked.

Emmeryn is the one who quite literally made all of the mistakes that allowed the war to kick off.

Again, Chrom is not wrong for wanting to defend his country and loved ones and is never presented as such, what he's portrayed as wrong for is how his attitude only gives Gangrel more fuel to act as if he's justified in what he's doing. Chrom's flaw is that he's actions first, thinking later, while Emmeryn's issue is that she was the opposite when the ideal is both, it's not that Chrom shouldn't do anything and just sit aside, it's that he should think about the bigger picture, that he should keep in mind that Gangrel can and will use all of his actions as much as he can to justify the Plegians going to war with Ylisse, which he wouldn't do until Emmeryn's death.

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Donnel to me, was completely unwilling to actually join until Chrom presuaded him with a false arguement, Ninjas also weren't exactly big fans of direct combat, while Donnel is entirely frontline combat and again, the fact Donnel is the worst unit in FE on a gameplay front I think proves my point, your comparison doesn't exactly work since Ninjas were more of a stealthy thing rather than direct combat while Donnel is charging into combat as a unit who's complete trash.

That's literally just normal gameplay-story segregation, by that logic you may as well complain that Eliwood and Rebecca's father are bad people for incentivizing her to leave to join the Pheraen army when she was unsure of it since she also sucks.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Murozaki

[Ottservia]

31 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

I personally disagree with the idea that Chrom's flaw is that he didn't understand Emmeryn's world and that Emmeryn is the one that is completely right. While Emmeryn was able to still do good it wasn't enough to stop the war from happening (That's the point of the "No reaction..." scene, the only way Emmeryn could get the violence to decrease was by sacrificing herself due to her own failings). That's not to say Chrom is not flawed either but the thing about his character is that it was not so much so about understanding Emmeryn so much so as it was about him becoming better in his own way. He didn't understand his sister's view until she died, but the conversation he has with Robin all about how he can't just start emulating her now and expect things to be better as even Emmeryn was not perfect, and that he needs to be better by being the kind of ruler that only he can be. And his battle dialogue with Gangrel is pretty much all about how in order to be better Chrom doesn't need to become some kind of pacifist like Emmeryn but rather that he needs to stop Gangrel out of his duty as a prince rather than because of his own emotions and bitterness.

I agree that Emmeryn wasn’t necessarily completely in the right but Chrom not understanding her ideals and what true peace is is a point the story emphasizes. Because there is an exchange between the two where he says that she is peace to which she responds with “As for the peace I seek, you cannot see who it is for”. He doesn’t quite understand that the peace she stands for is not for herself but for those she cares about. Other than that I agree with pretty much everything else you said here.

[Samz707]

30 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

Because again, the joke isn't that Chrom "deserves" to be punched, the joke is literally the fact it shatters the mood the scene had until then, Sumia herself apologizes immediately and the other characters laught not because "Hey Chrom is such a loser" but because again, it was completley out of nowhere.

Again, Chrom is not wrong for wanting to defend his country and loved ones and is never presented as such, what he's portrayed as wrong for is how his attitude only gives Gangrel more fuel to act as if he's justified in what he's doing. Chrom's flaw is that he's actions first, thinking later, while Emmeryn's issue is that she was the opposite when the ideal is both, it's not that Chrom shouldn't do anything and just sit aside, it's that he should think about the bigger picture, that he should keep in mind that Gangrel can and will use all of his actions as much as he can to justify the Plegians going to war with Ylisse, which he wouldn't do until Emmeryn's death.

That's literally just normal gameplay-story segregation, by that logic you may as well complain that Eliwood and Rebecca's father are bad people for incentivizing her to leave to join the Pheraen army when she was unsure of it since she also sucks.

Except Gangrel's clearly already made up his mind since the start of Awakening, he seems pretty deadset on what he's doing and I doubt Chrom pushed him anymore towards it.

And well, none of Chrom's actions get used to justify the Plegians going to war, it already happens and it's due to Emmeryn agreeing to that clearly a trap meet up and if Emmeryn had actually made sure to defend her country properly, well maybe the Pelgians wouldn't have actually managed to kidnap Maribelle in the first place and maybe Pelgian bandit groups wouldn't be a seemingly somewhat common occurance.

Rebecca at least is a class that stays somewhat out of danger and already was willing to fight (having fought those bandits of her own accord.), you can easily use Rebecca in FE7 meanwhile you have to use somewhat advanced tactics of boxing in just to kill archers with Donnel just to get him to even join, he's absolutely useless and can't even hit consistently unlike Rebecca. (and Rebecca wasn't essentially tricked with a nonsensical speech.)

Edited December 13, 2020 by Samz707

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Rebecca at least is a class that stays somewhat out of danger and already was willing to fight (having fought those bandits of her own accord.), you can easily use Rebecca in FE7 meanwhile you have to use somewhat advanced tactics of boxing in just to kill archers with Donnel just to get him to even join, he's absolutely useless and can't even hit consistently unlike Rebecca (and Rebecca wasn't essentially tricked with a nonsensical speech.)

On paper, Donnel has a tougher start - he has less move, and lower stats relative to the enemy. But, he exists in a game with Pair-Up - so, he can bolster his combat and mobility somewhat. And his growths are really good, even in the context of Awakening - whereas Rebecca's are just okay. Finally, Bows are really bad in FE7, while Donnel has good 1 and 1~2 range options, depending on his class.

They're both bad units in their respective games, but Donnel gets options to repair his bad start, and he can become a really good unit with training. Rebecca ends up... just okay.

[Samz707]

6 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

On paper, Donnel has a tougher start - he has less move, and lower stats relative to the enemy. But, he exists in a game with Pair-Up - so, he can bolster his combat and mobility somewhat. And his growths are really good, even in the context of Awakening - whereas Rebecca's are just okay. Finally, Bows are really bad in FE7, while Donnel has good 1 and 1~2 range options, depending on his class.

They're both bad units in their respective games, but Donnel gets options to repair his bad start, and he can become a really good unit with training. Rebecca ends up... just okay.

Donnel I'm pretty sure only gets EXP If he attacks in pair-up and I actually got somewhat soft-locked and have to constantly restart my 3DS to farm random encounters since I tired to grind Donnel on my first playthrough only for the rest of the cast to suffer so much I got stuck on chapter 6-ish since everyone was terrible due to this (Not to mention how much of a pain it is to actually recruit him if you're new to FE.) and even when you are grinding him, he basically becomes  stat-backpack since there's no way you're using him otherwise in random battles  if you spawn and the majority of enemies are Wyvern Riders, which means you're effectively down to "Please get a dual-strike" for him to actually get EXP.

Rebecca doesn't require me to infinitely farm, can safely attack from range with a bow and therefore isn't going to immediately get killed by what she's attacking and I didn't actually have any trouble with using her, I never hit a point where I felt like I was suffering from using her and was actually able to easily use her the entire game without the rest of my units suffering for it while Donnel literally soft-locked me if it wasn't for random encounters and having to constantly turn my 3DS on/off isn't fun.

[Axie]

are we talking lunatic (where, i assume, most units are not very good anyway)? because donnel is piss easy to grow in normal even without grinding lol.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Axie

[Samz707]

22 minutes ago, Axie said:

are we talking lunatic (where, i assume, most units are not very good anyway)? because donnel is piss easy to grow in normal even without grinding lol.

Hard, Donnel will pretty much consistently die against anything that isn't an archer ( and even then you need to block the archer in with 3 other units as he'll get one-rounded by archers pretty much all the time.), I'd be impressed if there is a more obnoxious to level up character in the series outside of FE1 healers, every other unit in the series can usually A: Hit consistently, B: survive getting attacked at least once or C : do good damage or D : be a healer or some other class with non-combat utility, Donnel literally does nothing. (and it's pretty crappy design I say to give a player literally the worst character in the game as a "Reward" for their first-side mission.)

And if he's paired up with someone, then you're stuck praying he does a dual strike for like 2 points of damage to get some EXP and that point why not use literally any other character since you already have way better characters. (And if you try to focus on Donnel, surprise! all the enemies get not-insignificantly increased stats a few chapters later and now all your units are underlevelled for a single unit that's still hot garbage and worse than literally all of them so trying to use Donnel has effectively soft-locked you until you grind the terrible random battles.)

And Random battles are a mess for reasons I've said earlier. (And you can't even consistently do them since you have to keep turning your 3DS on/off.)

2 hours ago, Murozaki said:

Because again, the joke isn't that Chrom "deserves" to be punched, the joke is literally the fact it shatters the mood the scene had until then, Sumia herself apologizes immediately and the other characters laught not because "Hey Chrom is such a loser" but because again, it was completley out of nowhere.

 

It being out of nowhere doesn't make it funny, it's not really funny at all and Sumia is still a terrible person for it. (even a slap would have been uncalled for frankly.)

It's someone getting randomly assaulted, shattering the mood doesn't make it funny and infact kinda just makes Sumia look like even more of an unlikable person. (the Fact Chrom has real legitimate concerns, that are proven right none the less, just make Sumia incredibly unlikable.)

 

3 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

I also find myself being like this. If I dislike something, I usually know it pretty quickly, and no matter how many times I go back to it it won't change my opinion. Case in point: Berwick Saga. Definitely an acquired taste in a game, so to speak, but one that is not for me. I've tried to like it and continue playing it, but I only end up frustrated. So I've (slowly) learned to stop trying to make myself like things that I won't and stick to what I do, haha.

Eh I tend to keep trying for another session or two if I'm really not liking something, usually a month or so after.

Sometimes I find myself liking it (Three Houses, Rising Storm 2 Vietnam and Rainbow Six Siege)

Other times not so much (FE Awakening, Tomb Raider 2013 and GTA V.)

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Florete]

18 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I can't believe people are still going on about Priam and what that may or may not mean for Ike's sexuality. I mean, come on guys. Do you really care all that much? Awakening doesn't care all that much about it's continuity with other games. FE7 doesn't even care that much about its continuity with itself. Can't you guys just all write your own fanfictions or something?

Well yeah, we do care. If you don't, lucky you.

[Murozaki]

9 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Except Gangrel's clearly already made up his mind since the start of Awakening, he seems pretty deadset on what he's doing and I doubt Chrom pushed him anymore towards it.

And well, none of Chrom's actions get used to justify the Plegians going to war, it already happens and it's due to Emmeryn agreeing to that clearly a trap meet up and if Emmeryn had actually made sure to defend her country properly, well maybe the Pelgians wouldn't have actually managed to kidnap Maribelle in the first place and maybe Pelgian bandit groups wouldn't be a seemingly somewhat common occurance.

Rebecca at least is a class that stays somewhat out of danger and already was willing to fight (having fought those bandits of her own accord.), you can easily use Rebecca in FE7 meanwhile you have to use somewhat advanced tactics of boxing in just to kill archers with Donnel just to get him to even join, he's absolutely useless and can't even hit consistently unlike Rebecca. (and Rebecca wasn't essentially tricked with a nonsensical speech.)

Gangrel had already made up his mind yes, but a point that is made explicit in the story is that he's essentially painting Ylisse in the wrong for his countrymen to rally them and make them genuinely buy into his cause. Again, Gangrel is not right and is never portrayed as such, Chrom's attitude isn't an issue because it makes Gangrel justified, it's an issue because it makes Gangrel be able to make himself look justified.

Also really? You're really looking at a typical "You have great potential" speech you see in hundreds of pieces of media and going "He's tricking that boy!"?

7 hours ago, Samz707 said:

It being out of nowhere doesn't make it funny, it's not really funny at all and Sumia is still a terrible person for it. (even a slap would have been uncalled for frankly.)

It's someone getting randomly assaulted, shattering the mood doesn't make it funny and infact kinda just makes Sumia look like even more of an unlikable person. (the Fact Chrom has real legitimate concerns, that are proven right none the less, just make Sumia incredibly unlikable.)

Question: If instead of punch it was a literal pie to the face would you take it that seriously? Would you still act as if Sumia is some awful person for it? Because that's literally what the punch is meant to be like in the context of the scene.

Also if you seriously think a single punch is the some kind of greatly unforgivable thing, or that again, a generic "You have potential" speech is some kind of emotional manipulative thing, i'd advise you to stop consuming any media, you clearly obsess too much about moral implications no one else cares about if you seriously think that.

[Samz707]

57 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

Gangrel had already made up his mind yes, but a point that is made explicit in the story is that he's essentially painting Ylisse in the wrong for his countrymen to rally them and make them genuinely buy into his cause. Again, Gangrel is not right and is never portrayed as such, Chrom's attitude isn't an issue because it makes Gangrel justified, it's an issue because it makes Gangrel be able to make himself look justified.

Also really? You're really looking at a typical "You have great potential" speech you see in hundreds of pieces of media and going "He's tricking that boy!"?

Question: If instead of punch it was a literal pie to the face would you take it that seriously? Would you still act as if Sumia is some awful person for it? Because that's literally what the punch is meant to be like in the context of the scene.

Also if you seriously think a single punch is the some kind of greatly unforgivable thing, or that again, a generic "You have potential" speech is some kind of emotional manipulative thing, i'd advise you to stop consuming any media, you clearly obsess too much about moral implications no one else cares about if you seriously think that.

Because the speech doesn't make sense and gameplay proves it, Chrom's a idiot to actually believe what he's saying.

I don't think Chrom is intentionally manipulating Donnel but it doesn't make sense and Donnel being absolutely terrible sorta makes Chrom look bad as a leader when he's persuading completely useless farmboys to join who have no idea how to actually fight.

 

Yes , even if it was a pie, that particular bit of slapstick wouldn't be funny, I like slapstick but that scene entirely falls flat considering how serious the circumstances are. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Because the speech doesn't make sense and gameplay proves it, Chrom's a idiot to actually believe what he's saying.

I don't think Chrom is intentionally manipulating Donnel but it doesn't make sense and Donnel being absolutely terrible sorta makes Chrom look bad as a leader when he's persuading completely useless farmboys to join who have no idea how to actually fight.

 

Yes , even if it was a pie, that particular bit of slapstick wouldn't be funny, I like slapstick but that scene entirely falls flat considering how serious the circumstances are. 

But Donnel does have potential with Aptitude and all.

[Parrhesia]

On 12/13/2020 at 6:37 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

I can't believe people are still going on about Priam and what that may or may not mean for Ike's sexuality. I mean, come on guys. Do you really care all that much? Awakening doesn't care all that much about it's continuity with other games. FE7 doesn't even care that much about its continuity with itself. Can't you guys just all write your own fanfictions or something?

Bad-faith 'heh why do you even care??' in the thread looking for FE opinions is kind of fucking stupid. Do better.

[Sengu]

I'm relatively new to the Fire Emblem community so I'm not sure about what the unpopular opinions are. Also I only played FE6 and 8, and a bit of the original FE for now so...

Judging from the few things I've read around the internet I'd say mine are:

• Phantom Ship in FE8 is a fun and engaging map
• The Sacred Stones > The Binding Blade
• I like the Tower of Valni (although many of its levels are rip-offs from FE6)
• Wolt > any other archer in FE6
• The way FE6 handles how to get past Chapter 22 it's really obnoxious

I guess I'll be able to expand a little bit on these opinions once I played through FE7 as well.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Sengu

[Lightcosmo]

I think that Sumia slapping Chrom is supposed to be cute... At least, that's what i got out of it.

If only Lucina was the sole focus of Awakening... then, maybe.

[Sooks]

Divine pulse goes greatly with classic mode (and casual), and since you don’t have to use it, it should always stay around.

Is that unpopular?

[Samz707]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Divine pulse goes greatly with classic mode (and casual), and since you don’t have to use it, it should always stay around.

Is that unpopular?

I wouldn't mind it but there's definitely a few BS moments that sorta force you to. (such as out of nowhere enemy spawns right on top of you like when you fight Miklan.)

If it was like Echoes where there isn't actually anything that makes it basically mandatory occasionally I wouldn't mind.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

27 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Divine pulse goes greatly with classic mode (and casual), and since you don’t have to use it, it should always stay around.

Is that unpopular?

I don´t think people have a problem with Rewind mechanics and more with elements of game/map design making it necessary-ish to get through a map unscathed. I´m imagining Conquest with Rewind right now and all I have to say is "hell yeah." Then again would you need Casual mode (units rejoin as I understand?) if you had Rewind anyway?

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

I don´t think people have a problem with Rewind mechanics and more with elements of game/map design making it necessary-ish to get through a map unscathed. I´m imagining Conquest with Rewind right now and all I have to say is "hell yeah." Then again would you need Casual mode (units rejoin as I understand?) if you had Rewind anyway?

It’s more like casual mode benefits from Divine Pulse because, if you still want your unit for the duration of the map, you still have to go back and fix your mistake(s).

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

It’s more like casual mode benefits from Divine Pulse because, if you still want your unit for the duration of the map, you still have to go back and fix your mistake(s).

Well yeah, but then what would make the difference to Classic? I mean i get that it would make the whole Rewind optional on Casual, since your unit will rejoin anyway, but if the unit was fielded it stands to reason that you are gonne continue to use said unit anyway. The only other aspect i can see would be for optional characters on the map, let´s say a recruitbale green lad/lass, but should it then be "Oh I got killed before you could talk to me, so I decided to retreat and join you anyway."

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Well yeah, but then what would make the difference to Classic?

When you run out of divine pulses, your unit doesn’t come back without redoing the whole chapter (on classic).

[Samz707]

11 minutes ago, Sooks said:

When you run out of divine pulses, your unit doesn’t come back without redoing the whole chapter (on classic).

The problem is you have way more of them than you'd realistically need in Echoes and I hear that's a problem in Three Houses too.

I think Divine Pulse should require a consumable item of sorts to recharge. (like if Echoes made you go to a shrine and each donation to Mila only restored a single charge for instance.)

Edited December 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Jotari]

46 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

The problem is you have way more of them than you'd realistically need in Echoes and I hear that's a problem in Three Houses too.

I think Divine Pulse should require a consumable item of sorts to recharge. (like if Echoes made you go to a shrine and each donation to Mila only restored a single charge for instance.)

That would serve to make Mila donations even mildly something worth doing. What do they do in the game as is right now? Is it purely just restoring stamina (which will basically never be an issue outside of Thabes which entirely lacks statues anyway) or is there something else that can be garnered from it that I'm forgetting?

[Samz707]

47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That would serve to make Mila donations even mildly something worth doing. What do they do in the game as is right now? Is it purely just restoring stamina (which will basically never be an issue outside of Thabes which entirely lacks statues anyway) or is there something else that can be garnered from it that I'm forgetting?

They also restore turnwheel charge. (even though you can easily leave the dungeon before that's an issue outside of Thabes.)

[X-Naut]

Casual or Turnwheel aren't bad additions to the series but they should not be a factor in playtesting, they enable design choices that are bad if not downright anathema for ironmanning.

[Venger_06]

I will take advantage of what everyone said on the thread and say my own unpopular opinion: Chrom is one of the best lords in the franchise, and one of the best written as well.

Between Grangrel's destructive nihilism and Emmeryn's rigid pacifism, Chrom" arc is about fighting for the right reason while leaving behind your negative feelings (not unlike Dimitri), not letting yourself be treated like a doormat. Emmeryn is also wrong because there are situations where there is no choice but to fight, and her lack of reaction has cost her life. Quoting Androide 16's speech in one of the best moments of the anime: “It is no sin to fight for what is right. There are opponents with which you cannot talk things out ”. Chrom emerges from this situation as a more level-headed person, and his new ideology is opposed to Wallhart's ideology in the next arc.

Now, one of the reasons why I think Chrom stands out among the various lords who came before him is the way he decides his priorities. Marth says his duty as a prince is greater than his personal relationships. Chrom is his antithesis, in the sense that he places those closest to him above his duties as a monarch. To put it more clearly, he is a person before he is a king. His more emotional reactions bring him closer to the viewer, and make him easier to sympathize with in my opinion. Awakening in general does a good deconstruction of the Marth archetype with its protagonists.

Finally, I would also like to compare his journey and his actions with Sigurd, who is also a deconstruction of the archetype and one of the best Lords that this franchise has given us. They are both prone to emotional decisions based on their conceptions of right and wrong, the two don't think much of the long-term consequences, they decide to marry a woman they've known for a short time (okay, I'm being a little biased here, but this is because I believe that Inigo makes the most sense being Chrom's son and Lucina's brother) and their failures lead them to be eventually killed (it is literally necessary to travel back in time to save Chrom). I believe Sigurd is a superior character, though, as he remains dead in his story.

I don't know if that opinion is unpopular or not, but I believe that Marth is fairly bland and basically every Lord who came after is a better character than he is. It is not his fault, however, it is the limitations of the games of his time, although the remakes have not changed him much.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Maof06