What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To be fair, for most of human history, people weren't overly concerned about the shape of the world and the entirety of what it was. Europe didn't care about China unless it was about getting those trade luxuries. And until the the Age of Exploration, Europe had neither the will nor more importantly the means to take (indirect and direct respectively) control of China and the Spice Islands and the other places where they had an economic interest.

What lay beyond the limits of civilization was barbarians, fantasy lands, and who cared what else. There was usually enough prosperity or chaos in one's realm already that rulers needn't look beyond the neighboring "barbarian" lands at most to keep their attention occupied. Not that it would've been at all possible for the Tang to ask for Charlemagne for an army to help suppress internal rebellions, the Tang could call on the steppe peoples to their north and west, but that was the limit of things.

Oh I wasn't criticizing the idea that the continent was the whole world. It makes sense. What I would like to see Fire Emblem do to further this idea is to stop making every single continent one large island. Which one might think is the definition of continent, but the only human civilization that does refer to is Australia, which was the least developed continent by a country mile in human history. You talk about how Europe didn't care about China, and that's true, but they're not actually separate continents, it very much is the same land mass. But apperantly every culture in every Fire Emblem universe spreads and unifies from coast to coast of whatever landmasses humans are on. The minor exception to this is Hatari being seperated from Tellius and Tellius going off the map to a landmass of indeterminate size, it could end in an ocean right there or it could just be apeninsula on a much larger landmass (though that would conflict with the lore, yeah it's sort of hilarious that Tellius is the one continuity where the continent being an island would make the most sense yet it's the first that does the opposite, though Elibe has a tiny little portion in the East that's off the map that could potentially lead to more, but much like Fates absolutely zero is said about what could lie in that direction other than a coast).

And that's the one thing I absolutely love about Fodlan. They get the general continent shape out of Fodlan and it's society, but it's not isolated in the middle of nowhere, unrelated to anything else in the world, it's connected to other landmasses with other people on them that aren't relevant to them. I love the fact that Fodlan has foreign lands that are just there. What's that Albina place beside Fodlan's deal? I don't know and I don't particularly care that it's unexplained. But I can get a flower from it! And that's something that just makes the world seem much more populated. It such little effort to do something like that but I think it works really well for the world building. And to bring this back to what I was saying earlier about cameoing character, I wouldn't mind at all if they went all Elder Scrolls on it and made Albina or some place the setting for the next Fire Emblem game with Fodlan being as much of an irrelevant for them, except for a random appearance of Caspar or Lindhart.

[𝐍𝐲𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐥]

Here are my unpopular opinions:

I hate the Tellius games, the stories aren't as engaging as the other games and the gameplay is just kinda meh in my opinion, it's not the worst gameplay in the series but it's certainly pretty bad. I think Ike is boring as hell and wasn't protagonist material, a patch of dirt has more personality than him. I kinda think Elincia would've been a better lord than him.

I know everyone in this community basically worships FE4 but I think the game sucks, Sigurd was boring and I felt absolutely no emotions when I first saw his death scene. This might be something only I experienced but I always had god awful RNG in the Jugdral games, I would have a 99 or 98% chance of hitting someone but I'd end up missing and an enemy would pull a 2% critical out of his ass and kill or seriously injure my unit. My bad luck just draws me away from the game, I just never enjoyed FE4 and FE5.

Oh and I'm like one of the only people that really like Wolt, but that's probably because he was really good in my Ironman runs.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

What I would like to see Fire Emblem do to further this idea is to stop making every single continent one large island.

The Classical & Early Medieval Mediterranean as an alternative comes to mind! That was the cradle of human civilization. A body of water, surrounded by the southern fringe of Europe, home to the Greeks, Romans, and Greeks calling themselves Romans; the southwestern fringe of Asia and its Phoenicians, Hittites, Achaemenid Empire, later the Arabs, and the slew of  Mesopotamian empires weren't far away; and the northern fringe of Africa, home to Egypt, and Phoenicia's successor Carthage. Culturally-defined landmasses interconnected deep blue and the Eurasian Steppe.

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I wouldn't mind at all if they went all Elder Scrolls on it and made Albina or some place the setting for the next Fire Emblem game with Fodlan being as much of an irrelevant for them, except for a random appearance of Caspar or Lindhart.

They could try to make a single grand overarching narrative from it! -But they don't have to, overarching usually ends up meaning "overreaching". There are people who don't care for that.

Alternatively, I read yesterday that between AD 742 and AD 755, thirteen years:

• 742:
  • The Turks were overthrown as the dominant power in the Eastern Steppe by the Uighurs.
  • A major rebellion broke out in the Byzantine Empire when Artavasdos, brother-in-law to the legitimate emperor Constantine V, usurps the throne for a year or two. The reasons for the rebellion, other than the Byzantine iconoclasm dispute, remain uncertain.
• 747-750:
  • With organized help from merchants in the Central Asian trading city of Merv, the Abbasids overthrew the Umayyad Caliphate and established their own in 750, taking control of the vast Islamic empire from central North Africa to Iran.
• 751:
  • The retroactively named Carolingian Dynasty overthrew in the Merovingian Dynasty and officially seized control of the Frankish Empire.
• 755:
  • In the Tibetan Empire, the reigning Emperor Khri Lde Gtsug Brtsan is assassinated, and it takes a year before crown prince Srong Lde Brtsan is enthroned, after which he remains a weak ruler for two decades. Why is uncertain, the fragmentary records are very lacking here, but legitimacy and recent major Tang military victories against Tibet suggest the rebels were concerned that rebellion was necessary to save the Tibetan Empire from collapse.
  • General An Lushan, a Central Asian of mixed heritage in Chinese employ, starts a major rebellion which bears his name, scarring the Tang Dynasty and leading to a permanent loss of control in the north and western and eastern peripheries.

Thats a whole lot of crises across Eurasia, some were successful for the perpetrators, some not.

If you turned these events into a video game franchise, thirteen years is short enough that you could reasonably see some characters show up in each game that were in the prior ones without it being forced. You could also spin a general theme of "turbulent times" and use that as the thread connecting them all, whilst not actually making them all share a villain or shiny objects of ultimate power.

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Classical & Early Medieval Mediterranean as an alternative comes to mind! That was the cradle of human civilization. A body of water, surrounded by the southern fringe of Europe, home to the Greeks, Romans, and Greeks calling themselves Romans; the southwestern fringe of Asia and its Phoenicians, Hittites, Achaemenid Empire, later the Arabs, and the slew of  Mesopotamian empires weren't far away; and the northern fringe of Africa, home to Egypt, and Phoenicia's successor Carthage. Culturally-defined landmasses interconnected deep blue and the Eurasian Steppe.

 

They could try to make a single grand overarching narrative from it! -But they don't have to, overarching usually ends up meaning "overreaching". There are people who don't care for that.

Alternatively, I read yesterday that between AD 742 and AD 755, thirteen years:

• 742:
  • The Turks were overthrown as the dominant power in the Eastern Steppe by the Uighurs.
  • A major rebellion broke out in the Byzantine Empire when Artavasdos, brother-in-law to the legitimate emperor Constantine V, usurps the throne for a year or two. The reasons for the rebellion, other than the Byzantine iconoclasm dispute, remain uncertain.
• 747-750:
  • With organized help from merchants in the Central Asian trading city of Merv, the Abbasids overthrew the Umayyad Caliphate and established their own in 750, taking control of the vast Islamic empire from central North Africa to Iran.
• 751:
  • The retroactively named Carolingian Dynasty overthrew in the Merovingian Dynasty and officially seized control of the Frankish Empire.
• 755:
  • In the Tibetan Empire, the reigning Emperor Khri Lde Gtsug Brtsan is assassinated, and it takes a year before crown prince Srong Lde Brtsan is enthroned, after which he remains a weak ruler for two decades. Why is uncertain, the fragmentary records are very lacking here, but legitimacy and recent major Tang military victories against Tibet suggest the rebels were concerned that rebellion was necessary to save the Tibetan Empire from collapse.
  • General An Lushan, a Central Asian of mixed heritage in Chinese employ, starts a major rebellion which bears his name, scarring the Tang Dynasty and leading to a permanent loss of control in the north and western and eastern peripheries.

Thats a whole lot of crises across Eurasia, some were successful for the perpetrators, some not.

If you turned these events into a video game franchise, thirteen years is short enough that you could reasonably see some characters show up in each game that were in the prior ones without it being forced. You could also spin a general theme of "turbulent times" and use that as the thread connecting them all, whilst not actually making them all share a villain or shiny objects of ultimate power.

On that note, I would be all up for Fire Emblem deviating from the medieval European aesthetic for a game or two. I think the core of the franchise should always be knights and stuff, but an Arab Emblem or Pirate Emblem could be a great departure from standard visual tropes of the series (and potentially interesting gameplay deviation if they really work in the desert and ocean terrains as part of the core gameplay). Or just don't let Hoshido stand alone and have a proper separate cultural sphere here and there. They did a that a tiny bit with the Almyrians in Three Houses, but aside from Claude's personal classes it was mostly tell don't show.

[Use the Falchion]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

On that note, I would be all up for Fire Emblem deviating from the medieval European aesthetic for a game or two. I think the core of the franchise should always be knights and stuff, but an Arab Emblem or Pirate Emblem could be a great departure from standard visual tropes of the series (and potentially interesting gameplay deviation if they really work in the desert and ocean terrains as part of the core gameplay). Or just don't let Hoshido stand alone and have a proper separate cultural sphere here and there. They did a that a tiny bit with the Almyrians in Three Houses, but aside from Claude's personal classes it was mostly tell don't show.

Agreed! Also...ELEPHANT RIDERS PLEASE!! 

[Murozaki]

On 4/27/2021 at 6:12 AM, Jotari said:

On that note, I would be all up for Fire Emblem deviating from the medieval European aesthetic for a game or two. I think the core of the franchise should always be knights and stuff, but an Arab Emblem or Pirate Emblem could be a great departure from standard visual tropes of the series (and potentially interesting gameplay deviation if they really work in the desert and ocean terrains as part of the core gameplay). Or just don't let Hoshido stand alone and have a proper separate cultural sphere here and there. They did a that a tiny bit with the Almyrians in Three Houses, but aside from Claude's personal classes it was mostly tell don't show.

On the topic of "Pirate Emblem", i always felt it would be very cool to see a Fire Emblem game inspired by Middle Ages Scandinavian nations, full of sea warfare and Viking-esque armies that behave similarly to Pirates and Bandits in other games, but far more organized and far more deadly and dangerous because of it.

[vanguard333]

On 4/27/2021 at 5:12 AM, Jotari said:

On that note, I would be all up for Fire Emblem deviating from the medieval European aesthetic for a game or two. I think the core of the franchise should always be knights and stuff, but an Arab Emblem or Pirate Emblem could be a great departure from standard visual tropes of the series (and potentially interesting gameplay deviation if they really work in the desert and ocean terrains as part of the core gameplay). Or just don't let Hoshido stand alone and have a proper separate cultural sphere here and there. They did a that a tiny bit with the Almyrians in Three Houses, but aside from Claude's personal classes it was mostly tell don't show.

I like the idea of an FE game deviating from Medieval European aesthetic. I personally would like something along the line of an Ancient Celts Fire Emblem game, or maybe even multiple ancient civilizations: there could be a Roman Empire fighting some Celtic kingdoms and Greek city-states and stuff like that.

[NaotoUzumaki]

I agree with other settings then European Knight for FE. Birthright would be my fav in cultural settings if Japan didn’t stroke their dick so hard on that one. It’s like they forgot that other cultures are fun for strategy game other Japanese or European fighting mechanic. They also really need to step out of their comfort zone. Byleth being a Vessal for Sothis aka god is fine but they really need to change their settings cause that trope combined with avatar is getting old and his everywhere today in fiction. Intys just step out of your comfort zone and don’t say that you can’t make good games cause of it since code steam exist 

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

They also really need to step out of their comfort zone. Byleth being a Vessal for Sothis aka god is fine but they really need to change their settings cause that trope combined with avatar is getting old and his everywhere today in fiction. Intys just step out of your comfort zone and don’t say that you can’t make good games cause of it since code steam exist 

One idea that I kind-of want to see done with an FE protagonist, after Fates gave it to Corrin but then never touched on it again after chapter 5, is the idea of a protagonist with a superpowered evil side (see either the video below or the link to the TV Tropes article for a more detailed explanation of the trope than I can provide). 

Trope Talk: Superpowered Evil Sides - YouTube

Superpowered Evil Side - TV Tropes

I think that there's a lot that could be done with the trope and it would be outside IS's comfort zone while also being familiar and recognizable enough for them to work with it thanks to things like dragon degeneration, Greil touching Lehran's Medallion, Jeritza/Death Knight, etc.

Edited April 29, 2021 by vanguard333

[NaotoUzumaki]

Exactly plus they should just go CYOA with FE. I mean customize my appearance and then I just choose my path. That way if you wanna be evil you could just destroy the good guys since you know what they’re gonna do if you played the hero on your last save. Imagine just having a Byleth able to rip their crestone and destroy both the church and Agarthan. Just saying making new games plus like a CYOA would help tremendously since most FE would get an Empires variant 

[Metal Flash]

I would also like to see cultures other than medieval Europe represented in FE. The Arabs, Celts, Ancient Greeks and Romans are all good choices. Heck, if they wanna go a little more modern, I could see the Reniesance working.

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

One idea that I kind-of want to see done with an FE protagonist, after Fates gave it to Corrin but then never touched on it again after chapter 5, is the idea of a protagonist with a superpowered evil side (see either the video below or the link to the TV Tropes article for a more detailed explanation of the trope than I can provide). 

Trope Talk: Superpowered Evil Sides - YouTube

Superpowered Evil Side - TV Tropes

I think that there's a lot that could be done with the trope and it would be outside IS's comfort zone while also being familiar and recognizable enough for them to work with it thanks to things like dragon degeneration, Greil touching Lehran's Medallion, Jeritza/Death Knight, etc.

While it would be cool to see, my fear would be that they use this SES give the protag an excuse when they do bad thing. "Oh no, they only did this thing cause they were controled by their evil side", absolving them of any guilt.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:12 AM, Jotari said:

On that note, I would be all up for Fire Emblem deviating from the medieval European aesthetic for a game or two. I think the core of the franchise should always be knights and stuff, but an Arab Emblem or Pirate Emblem could be a great departure from standard visual tropes of the series (and potentially interesting gameplay deviation if they really work in the desert and ocean terrains as part of the core gameplay). Or just don't let Hoshido stand alone and have a proper separate cultural sphere here and there. They did a that a tiny bit with the Almyrians in Three Houses, but aside from Claude's personal classes it was mostly tell don't show.

Yes I'd love some other themes for Fire Emblem. I've been wanting an Arabian nights themed Fire Emblem for some time now. I'm still rooting for an Almyran based Fire Emblem to get that Arabian nights FE on track. 

Fates actually came kinda close to deviating from medieval Europe. In the first trailer the Hoshidans were Japanese and the Nohrians were Roman. And then they proceeded to ditch the Roman gimmick of Nohr and just make them medieval Europe with some mild Roman touches such as their generals having centurion headpieces.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fates actually came kinda close to deviating from medieval Europe. In the first trailer the Hoshidans were Japanese and the Nohrians were Roman. And then they proceeded to ditch the Roman gimmick of Nohr and just make them medieval Europe with some mild Roman touches such as their generals having centurion headpieces.

If they were to go full Roman for a change, I think it'd be better to set them against a Chinese opponent. Roman Republic/Empire vs. the Han Dynasty is peak Late Antiquity. Throw the Parthians in the middle.

[Etrurian emperor]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If they were to go full Roman for a change, I think it'd be better to set them against a Chinese opponent. Roman Republic/Empire vs. the Han Dynasty is peak Late Antiquity. Throw the Parthians in the middle.

Personally I'd be rooting for a Persian setting against a Roman setting. China and Rome might be peak antiquity, but its Rome and Persia that spend most of antiquity beating each other up.

[vanguard333]

10 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

While it would be cool to see, my fear would be that they use this SES give the protag an excuse when they do bad thing. "Oh no, they only did this thing cause they were controled by their evil side", absolving them of any guilt.

I can understand being afraid that they'd do that, but that's more often a problem of stuff like brainwashing. An SES usually, if anything, gives the protagonist more angst and guilt as they see the SES doing something bad as them (the protagonist) losing control and seriously messing up, especially since unleashing the SES is usually either a choice or something caused by deep emotional trauma. 

[Metal Flash]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2021 at 2:33 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Personally I'd be rooting for a Persian setting against a Roman setting. China and Rome might be peak antiquity, but its Rome and Persia that spend most of antiquity beating each other up.

I think both can work for different reasons. While Rome fought Parthia for longer, China was indirectly responsible for the fall of the western empire.

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2021 at 6:17 PM, vanguard333 said:

I can understand being afraid that they'd do that, but that's more often a problem of stuff like brainwashing. An SES usually, if anything, gives the protagonist more angst and guilt as they see the SES doing something bad as them (the protagonist) losing control and seriously messing up, especially since unleashing the SES is usually either a choice or something caused by deep emotional trauma. 

Fair point, though whether that agnst is for better or for worse depends on how its handled.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

I think both can work for different reasons. While Rome fought Parthia for longer, China was indirectly responsible for the fall of the western empire.

???

Is this referring to the Xiongnu = Huns hypothesis? Whilst the scant historical record doesn't rule out the possibility, it is wide open for dispute.

 

On 4/29/2021 at 8:33 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Personally I'd be rooting for a Persian setting against a Roman setting. China and Rome might be peak antiquity, but its Rome and Persia that spend most of antiquity beating each other up.

Fine, Rome and Persia can beat each other up. Meanwhile, an imitation Gupta Empire can try biting at Persia's flanks. It might not be the Maurya, but Gupta is still glorious.

[Metal Flash]

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

Is this referring to the Xiongnu = Huns hypothesis? Whilst the scant historical record doesn't rule out the possibility, it is wide open for dispute.

I was thinking of the Huns, since they forced Rome`s barbarian allies to go through. But now that I think about it, I don`t know why I thought they were related to China.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Gaiden is the worst game in the series, full stop.

 

Sacred Stones is literally just them reattempting the ambitions they had for Gaiden and its story, except actually succeeding where the prior game failed in every regard. It was such a remarkable upgrade on the same core concept that it is still way better than Gaiden's remaster, SoV.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Gaiden is the worst game in the series, full stop.

 

Sacred Stones is literally just them reattempting the ambitions they had for Gaiden and its story, except actually succeeding where the prior game failed in every regard. It was such a remarkable upgrade on the same core concept that it is still way better than Gaiden's remaster, SoV.

I feel the whole choose one lord and one route to play instead of just playing both is a straight downgrade. Especially with them basically duplicating half the cast to fit into a single route formula, logical consistency be damned.

[Fabulously Olivier]

31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I feel the whole choose one lord and one route to play instead of just playing both is a straight downgrade. Especially with them basically duplicating half the cast to fit into a single route formula, logical consistency be damned.

I disagree, so hard.

 

One of the main things I cannot stand about Gaiden/SoV is the simultaneous routes and the forced grinding battle reinforcements that spawn every time you move one of them. Further compounded by the gameplay and map design of those battles just not being any fun.

 

 

Also, the split route structure is vastly better for replay value compared to the simultaneous route structure. You have much more freedom over the early to midgame and, whichever route you choose, you have access to a larger set of characters for more varied team compositions.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I disagree, so hard.

 

One of the main things I cannot stand about Gaiden/SoV is the simultaneous routes and the forced grinding battle reinforcements that spawn every time you move one of them. Further compounded by the gameplay and map design of those battles just not being any fun.

 

 

Also, the split route structure is vastly better for replay value compared to the simultaneous route structure. You have much more freedom over the early to midgame and, whichever route you choose, you have access to a larger set of characters for more varied team compositions.

Sure, if you mean by replay value that you literally have to play it twice to actually feel like you've finished it once.

[Fabulously Olivier]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Sure, if you mean by replay value that you literally have to play it twice to actually feel like you've finished it once.

I've replayed SS many times. Second only to my number of PoR playthroughs. So I am speaking from personal experience, not theory.

 

I barely finished SoV, and when I did, I was bored and exasperated, with 3 cheapshotted units in the final chapter that I didn't care enough to save.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I've replayed SS many times. Second only to my number of PoR playthroughs. So I am speaking from personal experience, not theory.

 

I barely finished SoV, and when I did, I was bored and exasperated, with 3 cheapshotted units in the final chapter that I didn't care enough to save.

I've played Sacred Stones many times too...that doesn't really prove any points though.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Jotari said:

I've played Sacred Stones many times too...that doesn't really prove any points though.

No, it doesn't. The series has good replay value on the whole. But I will say that the split structure of Gaiden results in less unit variety for each team, and ergo less replay value as a result. Everyone's more or less set on your team, with a few of Alm's that you can send over. Meaning that more units get used/fewer go unused, especially when you factor in the game's incentive to promote asap and not grind out levels. The main replay value of the franchise does lie in using combinations of units you didn't before.