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On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

You are missing the point. I said the nations are more or less at peace with each other. They are allies at this point of this stage of the game. Yes there are conflicts like skirmishes and bandits within the nations, but the continent has lacked civil wars between the countries for the majority of its years ever since Rhea founded the Church and Crest System. That's one positives of Rhea's crest system, it brought Fodlan stabillity and allowed the continent  and nations to flourish for more than a millenia.

You´ll have to excuse me – this is as far as I can discuss story with you, but you are just glossing over the two Independence Wars as well as a solid attempt at genocide – that´s not counting the defence against Almyra, because what do we know about that continent as well as the defences/campaigns against Brigid and the place SHamir is from? That is not stable and it´s not peaceful either.

And considering we are in a feudal setting – are wars/feuds between lords ever mentioned?

On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

1) That's not the point. The point isn't whether Xander is a good Dark Mage or not nor does he benefit from the skills. The point is that significantly harder to grind for Skills in a game like Fates/Awakening because of how weapon locks apply, discouraging people to try get skills like Heartseeker on an Axe unit simply because it means grinding from weapon rank E while gaining the levels, making it much more tedious to gain the right levels for the skills. If you want a class that's more more " suited " to Xander, try his secondary Wyvern Rider. 2) Its a great class set for him, including skills like Swordbreaker and Savage Blow he can benefit from, but most players won't bother because it means losing Siegfried and grinding for the weapon ranks which requires auxiliary battles which means grinding, which is severely limited on Conquest. 

3) In contrast the Wyvern Rider, despite specializing in Axes and Lances in Three Houses, its still considered one of Byleth's best classes thanks to the amazing movement, canto, and the fact they can use Sword of the Creator thanks to the classes no longer have weapon locks.  That means if you are soley in a class to master the skills, its much easier since you can use weapon ranks you already have grinded instead delegating to the class specialities when trying to master a class for the skill. 

1) Then say that, instead of using a metaphor that has so many things backwards? Also, no shit putting a guy who excels at getting physical into a Mage class sucks. (At which point Heartseeker is still just 1 lvl away for Xander – as opposed to TH system, where´d you have to slog through several battles.) Experimentation with Classes is not the main point of FE methinks – it is amongst the reasons to replay it.  Grinding skills in Awakening/Fates means progressing the game, because you gain skills at certain lvls. In TH you tread water, hoping that your guy sees enough combat to someday learn a relevant skill. Of which the major 5 to look out for are located in intermediate classes.

2) I didn´t know you knew the majority of Fates players, nor what they do – if you can, do provide me with that statistical data would you? Also, if Accuracy is your issue on Axe users in Fates, why would you put Heartseeker on them? There are better options.

3) It’s considered one of the best classes in the game because of it´s mobility, Canto, high af stats, growths and Axefaire, making a Handaxe a better option than the SotC and leaving all other physical classes in niches or making them completely obsolete. The SotC isn´t your best weapon even when you are swordlocked. Fair enough for intermediate classes and below, but that no longer applies for Advanced and above – in these cases you lose out on skills, damage, movement an potentially Combat Arts.

On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

The class change system is done as a nod to the school setting. And while its true that you have to risk a seal in order to gain a new class, Three Houses is a game where the level system does not reset to 20, rather the level remains the same and surpasses 20 mark. Because of this system, promoting into a higher tier class is not nessarily the best course of action, and the stat boost you get are incredibly small compared to other games. As a result, its not uncommon for many units to remain in Advanced or even intermediate for playthroughs. So there's no pressure to promote immediately to a higher tier class. Just give a bit more tutoring and try again.  Also if you really don't want to lose a seal, just save, and if you fail, turn it off. 

Which game resets to 20 again? Of course, by not promoting to a more advanced class you only lose out on weapon faire skills, additional skills, potentially better movement. “Just use an exploit” seems a weird excuse for making a core part of FE gameplay potentially RNG dependant?

On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

I don't see why its odd to compare games who are years apart. People always say the recent FE games have terrible map design, and they should go back to something big and complex like Shadow Dragon or Genealogy. As for third point, I was just disagreeing with the units who you bench. 

I haven´t actually seen anyone proclaim to go back to the maps of SD or Genealogy, but we also weren´t talking about maps but class systems – personally I have no clue about the reclassing related capabilities of a game system that existed before I was born. Oh yeah, because re-reading all this, getting the original Magic Axe Wyvern Elise, requires less than Wyvern Annette.

On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

Did you even read my post on XY and why I love it and how its comparable to Three Houses? That is a grossly simplified explanation of why I don't find the map reuse of Three Houses an issue. In my post, How the player attempts each map varied depending on the two factors: The students they recruited and the type of class they are. Unlike a game like Awakening , Fates, or Echoes, where the player had a guaranteed set amount of units they would have recruited by each chapter, all in a certain class with a certain weapon rank. Not in Three Houses. A player might not have not a warp user to clear Chapter 16's map if they just used their default Blue Lions students without recruiting a single warp user, or none their units are a mage. But in contrast, if the player was using the default Golden Deer students to clear Chapter 16, the warp option is avalible thanks to Lysithea being a member of the house by default. To put the point simply, how each player approaches each map  and what strategies they use will be different depending on who they have recruited and what classes they are in currently in. And since the majority of the player units ( At least their chosen house ) will be a different role for each run due to starting as villager, it renders strategies that would have worked for all players in previous games due to each units already being in a pre-determined advanced class and being guranteed recruitments. That's why I find Three Houses reused maps not an issue- every time I play through the maps, its a different experience and I use different strategies and units. 

I read it and then I read the second part of your post, explaining again why you love TH. To the rest of this paragraph: the hell do you know about people’s playstyle and what they do in their games? Yeah you´ll have a set number of units in Awakening and Fates, but the only other thing that´s clearly defined are the weapon ranks. If you wanna see wacky builds look into Shrimperors PMU of CQ. Additionally, allowing myself to narrate other players experience like you do, but for TH, near everyone will have Pegasus Knights, Wyvern Riders, Snipers, War Masters, Grapplers, etc – the selection of viable classes being boiled down to the few that make the best out of the Blow skills or have a Brave-Option built in. Which of course affects available strategies, even more as you go through higher difficulties.

On 8/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

Oh, what a pity. I always made sure I always returned lost items to students once I got them. It's a great way to develop points for the professor level as well as learning more about the interests of the people of the academy. That being said, I understand why you don't enjoy Three Houses. As I've stated above and is my main point still, Three Houses is a game that rewards you for getting invested into the world of Fodlan: its history, culture, people, and practices The more you invest, the better the rewards. Activities like returning items and minigames help you learn about your allies what histories they have and how Fodlan's current politics affect them. Obviously someone who just wants to go to battle with minor breaks and does not care about the history or current story of Three Houses in not going to like this game because it wants you to care about Fodlan, its people, and its future. And for those who invest in these people and social issues, they get the better rewards, which is a good thing because towards a play style that is enhanced by those features.

Exactly - unlike other FE games where story and gameplay are "moderately separated", TH takes the story and slaps it on top of everything and the path to optimization, which is imo a big part of high difficulties, is locked behind minigames - we are on step away from loot crates people. /s

And yes, I am currently trying my hand at full skip TH Maddening, to see how much of that nonsense is actually needed. 

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On 8/6/2021 at 12:46 PM, ZeManaphy said:

You don’t have to follow the optimal routes. You could make Annette a standard mage as always, but thanks to her talent in Axes, she can also make an excellent Wyvern Rider if you wished. Something like that was either not possible in game like SDABOL, or required a lot outside of grinding in Awakening/Fates. I disagree on Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Caspar, Raphael, Sylvain, Ashe, and Lorenz assessments BTW. Those units have served me excellent in so many playthroughs.

Interestingly enough, I made Annette a Brigand and raised her Axe rank to a C. In hindsight, it probably wasn't a good idea, considering the lack of strength, speed, defense, and movement, but at least I can use her Bolting Axe, wooo! As for Ferdinand, is he still quite strong as a cavalier/wyvern in Maddening? I actually had to bench him a couple of times, because he was hogging up too much EXP because of how busted he became in Normal Mode CF.

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2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

And considering we are in a feudal setting – are wars/feuds between lords ever mentioned?

Yes. Lorenz's paralogue ("Land of the Golden Deer") is a good example. To quote Lorenz himself, "while the Alliance may appear to be at peace, the reality is that internal conflict is a routine matter". I don't believe there's any actual full-blown wars (prior to the big one), but there are definitely a lot of smaller scale conflicts, skirmishes and feuds.

3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

And yes, I am currently trying my hand at full skip TH Maddening, to see how much of that nonsense is actually needed. 

Best of luck with that! Trying it on Maddening is one step further than I was willing to go. I'm interested to hear how you get on.

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5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

3) It’s considered one of the best classes in the game because of it´s mobility, Canto, high af stats, growths and Axefaire, making a Handaxe a better option than the SotC and leaving all other physical classes in niches or making them completely obsolete. The SotC isn´t your best weapon even when you are swordlocked. Fair enough for intermediate classes and below, but that no longer applies for Advanced and above – in these cases you lose out on skills, damage, movement an potentially Combat Arts.

Minor point, but the Sublime Creator Sword has 15 Might, 90 Hit, and 10 Crit. This means it's more accurate than any throwing axe, and doing more damage than any of them, with the exception of the Tomahawk (17 Might after accounting for Axefaire; 18 forged). And it has acces to the powerful Sublime Heaven combat art, whereas throwing axes have no ranged arts. The Sword of the Creator is pretty much worth using in any build of the Professor.

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8 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Which game resets to 20 again? Of course, by not promoting to a more advanced class you only lose out on weapon faire skills, additional skills, potentially better movement. “Just use an exploit” seems a weird excuse for making a core part of FE gameplay potentially RNG dependant?

It's not always possible or practical to promote to the Master classes I want, though. The majority of the classes requires high levels in horseback or flying, which has the difficulty of the levelling up opportunities being more limited. In the case of Great Knight, it also requires proficiency in armor which requires to be in classes with low movement. This hits harder in Crimson Flower which has fewer chapters than the other routes, and the last two of that route being back-to-back.

I managed to get Leonie to Bow Knight (due to the requirements levels overlapping nicely with her strengths and her default class), Petra to Falcon Knight (she had strength in flying and swords), Mercedes to Gremory (only required her two magic proficiencies), and Caspar to Warlock (also only required his proficiencies in fistfights and Axes), and that's it for Master Class.

Bernadetta I admittedly messed up by focusing on raising her as a Sniper when I could have reclassed her into Cavalier/Paladin temporarily.

Hubert's Dark Knight would have been difficult though as it requires horseback proficiency, and I don't recall any magical horseback classes before Dark Knight that Hubert could exploit... Anyone managed to do this?

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52 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

Hubert's Dark Knight would have been difficult though as it requires horseback proficiency, and I don't recall any magical horseback classes before Dark Knight that Hubert could exploit... Anyone managed to do this?

I used him as a Cavalier for a while. 7 move with Frozen Lance is 8 attack range, which is more than he can manage in any infantry mage class (without Thyrsus/Caduceus support). You could definitely have him go Monk* -> Mage* -> Cavalier -> Paladin -> Dark Knight. Kind of like the standard Lorenz course.

9 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Which game resets to 20 again? Of course, by not promoting to a more advanced class you only lose out on weapon faire skills, additional skills, potentially better movement. “Just use an exploit” seems a weird excuse for making a core part of FE gameplay potentially RNG dependant?

Presumably, they meant "cap at 20, reset to 1". Anyway, I love the freeclassing system of 3H. But even I will concede that chance-based certifications are bad for gameplay. They should've knocked most reclass requirements down a half-rank or full (i.e. Swordmaster at B+ Sword, Fortress Knight at B Axe & C Armor), and made it an "all-or-nothing" thing.

Also, countering their original point - since certifying in a new class boosts a unit's stats to class bases, you want to certify (if not necessarily reclass) ASAP. Excepting cases where certifying provides no stat boosts.

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Typo.
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2 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

It's not always possible or practical to promote to the Master classes I want, though. The majority of the classes requires high levels in horseback or flying, which has the difficulty of the levelling up opportunities being more limited. In the case of Great Knight, it also requires proficiency in armor which requires to be in classes with low movement. This hits harder in Crimson Flower which has fewer chapters than the other routes, and the last two of that route being back-to-back.

I managed to get Leonie to Bow Knight (due to the requirements levels overlapping nicely with her strengths and her default class), Petra to Falcon Knight (she had strength in flying and swords), Mercedes to Gremory (only required her two magic proficiencies), and Caspar to Warlock (also only required his proficiencies in fistfights and Axes), and that's it for Master Class.

Bernadetta I admittedly messed up by focusing on raising her as a Sniper when I could have reclassed her into Cavalier/Paladin temporarily.

Hubert's Dark Knight would have been difficult though as it requires horseback proficiency, and I don't recall any magical horseback classes before Dark Knight that Hubert could exploit... Anyone managed to do this?

You don't necessarily have to ever put someone in a mounted class to get certification for a mounted class. For Mages aiming for Dark Knight, sticking them in the stables for half the game and having their goal be Reason/Riding will get them to the right requirements reasonably timely (the C lances is actually really low, you can get it tby just going for it for a couple of tutoring sessions, though for someone like Hubert there is decent motivation to go for it early for Frozen Lance). And even if you're not going for Dark Knight, giving a mage some riding experience via the stables and goals is good as it provides Movement+1, a much desired skill on mages. Your faith might take a bit of a hit if you want to get to Dark Knight early, but for most units that want to be in Dark Knight by end game that's not actually much of an issue, since their Faith list aren't that great.

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13 hours ago, Jotari said:

You don't necessarily have to ever put someone in a mounted class to get certification for a mounted class. For Mages aiming for Dark Knight, sticking them in the stables for half the game and having their goal be Reason/Riding will get them to the right requirements reasonably timely (the C lances is actually really low, you can get it tby just going for it for a couple of tutoring sessions, though for someone like Hubert there is decent motivation to go for it early for Frozen Lance). And even if you're not going for Dark Knight, giving a mage some riding experience via the stables and goals is good as it provides Movement+1, a much desired skill on mages. Your faith might take a bit of a hit if you want to get to Dark Knight early, but for most units that want to be in Dark Knight by end game that's not actually much of an issue, since their Faith list aren't that great.

I guess there's also the question that whether it's actually worth going the Master Classes depending on the units and class. The JP FE fandom Kawaki Chatei has a lot to say (both for and against) on that matter.

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23 hours ago, lenticular said:

Best of luck with that! Trying it on Maddening is one step further than I was willing to go. I'm interested to hear how you get on.

It certainly is an experience, being so weak that I only managed one side in chapter 4. 

21 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Sublime Creator Sword

SCS =/= SotC. A nitpick, but a nitpick nonetheless. I have honestly forgotten that SCS even exists.

17 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

It's not always possible or practical to promote to the Master classes I want, though.

I think that is amongst the points I made? That I hit the level requirement nessecary, but unlike other FEs still have to raise ranks. And were you to hit them in the battle you are still required to take an exam after that battle, before you can reap the rewards of your tedium. 

16 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also, countering their original point - since certifying in a new class boosts a unit's stats to class bases, you want to certify (if not necessarily reclass) ASAP. Excepting cases where certifying provides no stat boosts.

Also because having certified allows you to reclass from the massive inventory screen - so you avoid going all the way back to the monastery screen

On 8/10/2021 at 10:13 AM, henrymidfields said:

Interestingly enough, I made Annette a Brigand and raised her Axe rank to a C. In hindsight, it probably wasn't a good idea, considering the lack of strength, speed, defense, and movement, but at least I can use her Bolting Axe, wooo! As for Ferdinand, is he still quite strong as a cavalier/wyvern in Maddening? I actually had to bench him a couple of times, because he was hogging up too much EXP because of how busted he became in Normal Mode CF.

Re Annette: Pretty sure Fiendish Blow is better than Death Blow - Treat her as a Mage with a giant back-up Axe. Proceed ranks as usual for WR and promote as possible. On Maddening at least you might want to consider stopping by either Archer or Valkyrie - you will run into Accuracy isssues.

I haven´t used them, but both Sylvain and Ferdinand seem highly regarded for their Swift Strikes combat art. Anything that is a brave attack seems good.

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On 8/10/2021 at 1:13 AM, henrymidfields said:

Interestingly enough, I made Annette a Brigand and raised her Axe rank to a C. In hindsight, it probably wasn't a good idea, considering the lack of strength, speed, defense, and movement, but at least I can use her Bolting Axe, wooo! As for Ferdinand, is he still quite strong as a cavalier/wyvern in Maddening? I actually had to bench him a couple of times, because he was hogging up too much EXP because of how busted he became in Normal Mode CF.

Alert Stance stacks with Ferdinand’s personal skill and combined with an evasive ring, makes him an excellent dodge tank.

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4 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Alert Stance stacks with Ferdinand’s personal skill and combined with an evasive ring, makes him an excellent dodge tank.

No, not enough dodge! We need Ferdinand with Alert Stance+, Sword Prowess 5, Sword Evasion+20, Wyvern Lord avoid+10, Immortal Corps battalion and a evasion ring.  That's over 100 avoid before you even factor in his actual stats. Absolutely unhittable. Dimitri could pull off too as his post time skip personal skill provides 5 more avoid than Ferdinand's. You also have two skill slots open, so you could toss on renewal and quick riposte to top up his personal skill and avoid getting doubled (though getting both of them in addition to Alert stance+ and Sword Prowess 5 would probably be impossible outside of New Game+ shenanigans)

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

No, not enough dodge! We need Ferdinand with Alert Stance+, Sword Prowess 5, Sword Evasion+20, Wyvern Lord avoid+10, Immortal Corps battalion and a evasion ring.  That's over 100 avoid before you even factor in his actual stats. Absolutely unhittable. Dimitri could pull off too as his post time skip personal skill provides 5 more avoid than Ferdinand's. You also have two skill slots open, so you could toss on renewal and quick riposte to top up his personal skill and avoid getting doubled (though getting both of them in addition to Alert stance+ and Sword Prowess 5 would probably be impossible outside of New Game+ shenanigans)

All this talk of skills has made me realize I never checked anyone's skills for my entire playthrough to assign them after unlocking them.

I'll have to get on that as I kinda find myself honestly forgetting things other than supports/weapons.

I start failing to keep checking up on things on once it's more than Money, Weapons and Supports.

Edited by Samz707
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This may just be how I see it, but I personally don't think Radiant Dawn's "three tiers" are what everyone thinks they are. In actuality, I believe Radiant Dawn has the same two-tier system as every other game, just with trainees like in Sacred Stones.
Let me explain.

Let's, for a moment, subtract the Laguz units, since they don't use class progression. That's 24 of the 73 units, bringing us down to 49. In your average FE game, about a third of these would be tier 2 units. But Radiant Dawn does something sneaky. It tricks you into thinking that the game has three tiers of promotion. It doesn't. Of the remaining 49 units, only ten of them are tier 1. These units are Micaiah, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Jill and Fiona. If that bunch sounds familiar, let it sink in. Every one of these ten "tier one" units is part of the often-considered-awful Dawn Brigade. It's generally assumed that they can't catch up because the game's level curve is bad, and that's kind of right, but here's the thing. The Dawn Brigade is not composed of tier 1 units.

By definition, I see tier 2 units as being units of a class generally regarded to be an improved version of their tier 1 counterpart. In this regard, the "tier 2" classes do have the "tier 1" classes outstripped. But another thing I see in tier 2 classes is usually some new ability that the class could not get in tier 1, and it's here that Radiant Dawn's tier 2 classes fall flat.

The Paladin class, for instance. The only thing it gains is stats, and while I could forgive this if other games did not do more for the Paladin, the problem here is that in Radiant Dawn, Paladins only use one weapon type. In the game immediately prior, Paladins gained a weapon type of the player's choosing. Compare this to their promotions, the Gold Knight and Silver Knight, each of which gain a new weapon type. This feels more like a promotion than Cavalier to Paladin, because when Paladins promote, they gain a new method of attack. Not so with Cavaliers. Fiona is the only unit to suffer from this, but a promoted" Fiona still feels like she hasn't promoted, due to still lacking the bows that her "third-tier" class gives her.

Sages have access to all three magic types. That's an improvement over the Mage, right? Well... news flash. In Path of Radiance, mages also had access to all magic types. They gain staffs on promotion to Sage, not the other two spell types, and wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what the sage promotion to archsage does!

Pegasus Knights promote to Falcon Knights, who gain swords, right? WRONG! There are no playable Pegasus Knights in this game. Dracoknights are in a similar spot, but Jill does gain lances on promo, so that's not the worst end.

General? I'll give you that one, each General uses two seperate weapon types, right? I'd give you that, if it weren't for the fact that Meg is the only playable Knight and she's kind of awful. I will give you that one.

Lastly, we come to the infantry classes: Myrmidon, soldier, fighter, and archer. The non-Nolan units earn +10 crit rate, while Nolan gains the ability to wield crossbows. That seems like a crucial difference, right?

Here's the thing. Though as the classes go on, we're overlooking something I mentioned at the start. The fact that there's only nine first-tier units in the entire game. Looking over the roster, there are ten "first-tier" units in a roster with forty-nine units who have standard classes. Of the remaining thirty-nine units, three of them (Sephiran, Sanaki and the Black Knight) have unique, single-tier classes. The thirty-seven remaining units include a total of 5 tier 3 units. In total, this means there are around 32 tier 2 units, versus 17 tier one or three units- roughly a third of the non-Laguz units, or around as many pre-promotes as there are in an average FE game as far as I seem to figure. So I personally see the "second-tier" classes as just first-tier classes.

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2 hours ago, GlitchWarrior said:

This may just be how I see it, but I personally don't think Radiant Dawn's "three tiers" are what everyone thinks they are. In actuality, I believe Radiant Dawn has the same two-tier system as every other game, just with trainees like in Sacred Stones.
Let me explain.

I'm nitpicking a typo, but I'm pretty sure you mean "aren't" what everyone thinks they are

2 hours ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Here's the thing. Though as the classes go on, we're overlooking something I mentioned at the start. The fact that there's only nine first-tier units in the entire game. Looking over the roster, there are ten "first-tier" units in a roster with forty-nine units who have standard classes. Of the remaining thirty-nine units, three of them (Sephiran, Sanaki and the Black Knight) have unique, single-tier classes. The thirty-seven remaining units include a total of 5 tier 3 units. In total, this means there are around 32 tier 2 units, versus 17 tier one or three units- roughly a third of the non-Laguz units, or around as many pre-promotes as there are in an average FE game as far as I seem to figure. So I personally see the "second-tier" classes as just first-tier classes.

Going to go ahead and do some nitpicking again, but Elincia has a unique single-tier class too.

2 hours ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Let's, for a moment, subtract the Laguz units, since they don't use class progression. That's 24 of the 73 units, bringing us down to 49. In your average FE game, about a third of these would be tier 2 units. But Radiant Dawn does something sneaky. It tricks you into thinking that the game has three tiers of promotion. It doesn't. Of the remaining 49 units, only ten of them are tier 1. These units are Micaiah, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Jill and Fiona. If that bunch sounds familiar, let it sink in. Every one of these ten "tier one" units is part of the often-considered-awful Dawn Brigade. It's generally assumed that they can't catch up because the game's level curve is bad, and that's kind of right, but here's the thing. The Dawn Brigade is not composed of tier 1 units.

By definition, I see tier 2 units as being units of a class generally regarded to be an improved version of their tier 1 counterpart. In this regard, the "tier 2" classes do have the "tier 1" classes outstripped. But another thing I see in tier 2 classes is usually some new ability that the class could not get in tier 1, and it's here that Radiant Dawn's tier 2 classes fall flat.

The Paladin class, for instance. The only thing it gains is stats, and while I could forgive this if other games did not do more for the Paladin, the problem here is that in Radiant Dawn, Paladins only use one weapon type. In the game immediately prior, Paladins gained a weapon type of the player's choosing. Compare this to their promotions, the Gold Knight and Silver Knight, each of which gain a new weapon type. This feels more like a promotion than Cavalier to Paladin, because when Paladins promote, they gain a new method of attack. Not so with Cavaliers. Fiona is the only unit to suffer from this, but a promoted" Fiona still feels like she hasn't promoted, due to still lacking the bows that her "third-tier" class gives her.

Sages have access to all three magic types. That's an improvement over the Mage, right? Well... news flash. In Path of Radiance, mages also had access to all magic types. They gain staffs on promotion to Sage, not the other two spell types, and wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what the sage promotion to archsage does!

Pegasus Knights promote to Falcon Knights, who gain swords, right? WRONG! There are no playable Pegasus Knights in this game. Dracoknights are in a similar spot, but Jill does gain lances on promo, so that's not the worst end.

General? I'll give you that one, each General uses two seperate weapon types, right? I'd give you that, if it weren't for the fact that Meg is the only playable Knight and she's kind of awful. I will give you that one.

Lastly, we come to the infantry classes: Myrmidon, soldier, fighter, and archer. The non-Nolan units earn +10 crit rate, while Nolan gains the ability to wield crossbows. That seems like a crucial difference, right?

And to actually address everything you said...isn't that sort of super obvious? I think anyone that's played Radiant Dawn is cognoscente of the fact the vast majority of the roster are "tier 2" units and that the "Tier 1" units are basically trainees.Though to toss another point on the pile, what tier 1 class is meant to promote into Mist's Cleric class??? Because it certainly isn't priest.

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23 hours ago, Jotari said:

No, not enough dodge! We need Ferdinand with Alert Stance+, Sword Prowess 5, Sword Evasion+20, Wyvern Lord avoid+10, Immortal Corps battalion and a evasion ring.  That's over 100 avoid before you even factor in his actual stats. Absolutely unhittable. Dimitri could pull off too as his post time skip personal skill provides 5 more avoid than Ferdinand's. You also have two skill slots open, so you could toss on renewal and quick riposte to top up his personal skill and avoid getting doubled (though getting both of them in addition to Alert stance+ and Sword Prowess 5 would probably be impossible outside of New Game+ shenanigans)

Dimitri is a lot harder due to a weakness in Axes. It’s a shame Falcon Knight is gender-locked, since that would be the master class for him. 

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3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Dimitri is a lot harder due to a weakness in Axes. It’s a shame Falcon Knight is gender-locked, since that would be the master class for him. 

Yeah, true. Ditching class for a few weeks would also make it harder for him to qualify. I wonder if it would be possible if you stick him with a knowledge gem and an axe for most of the game. Probably not if you also want to go for Sword Prowess 5. Hitting those S ranks is very difficult.

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Soooooooooooo for no reason whatsoever my brain just concocted a mental essay on why the Seventh Platoon is Fire Emblem's worst starting squad
but if I try to write it out I'll forget everything I'm about to say so here's the long low-editing version
the main reason the 7th Platoon is so bad is because of how quickly they're upstaged by units with similar builds, but that are just straight-up better.
You get Catria on Chapter 2, and Palla on Chapter 3. Both are high-MOV powerhouses that easily eclipse all three cavaliers of the Platoon, and in Mystery with the Dismount feature they can arguably use the Ladyblade more effectively than Cecile ever could. Warren also joins on chapter 2, and Castor on Chapter 4, disincentivising using the archers because hunters are just a straight-up better class. Ryan is made immediately irrelevant by this. But also on Chapter 4, along with Castor, is Sirius, who's just a better arran, and why only run one of these paladins when instead you could bench your last shitty 7th Platoon cav?
The only members of Mystery of the Emblem's starting squad with any staying power to speak of are Arran, because he's your Jagen, Gordin for starting at LV5 and having actual stats unlike his brother, Marth because haha funny force-deployed, and Draug for being one of only TWO UNITS IN THE GAME who can use Lances indoors (that was always a weird one to me but OK). Note that that's the half of your base army that isn't the 7th Platoon. Even Gordin and Draug can easily be dropped, because they are an archer and a knight respectively, both classes with a historical reputation of being bad. Which, y'know. They kinda live up to.
at least with the Dawn Brigade, you can argue that those units get a spotlight, because unlike the 7th Platoon, you're stuck with them for about a third of the game, which actually gives you time to build them- not that it means anything, but the fact is, they can be worked with. The 7th Platoon gets outclassed instantly and it's hard to justify using them over most other units. Even in New Mystery, where you get an entire prologue dedicated to just them... they kinda stay bad and at most ONE of the cavaliers becomes usable.
anyway
that's my rant on why I don't like the 7th Platoon
...absolutely not the only low-thought rant I've posted (the others being "The Dawn Brigade is just trainee units" and "Alm is Fire Emblem's best 'avatar'")
It's just something I thought about randodmly

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9 hours ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Soooooooooooo for no reason whatsoever my brain just concocted a mental essay on why the Seventh Platoon is Fire Emblem's worst starting squad
but if I try to write it out I'll forget everything I'm about to say so here's the long low-editing version
the main reason the 7th Platoon is so bad is because of how quickly they're upstaged by units with similar builds, but that are just straight-up better.
You get Catria on Chapter 2, and Palla on Chapter 3. Both are high-MOV powerhouses that easily eclipse all three cavaliers of the Platoon, and in Mystery with the Dismount feature they can arguably use the Ladyblade more effectively than Cecile ever could. Warren also joins on chapter 2, and Castor on Chapter 4, disincentivising using the archers because hunters are just a straight-up better class. Ryan is made immediately irrelevant by this. But also on Chapter 4, along with Castor, is Sirius, who's just a better arran, and why only run one of these paladins when instead you could bench your last shitty 7th Platoon cav?
The only members of Mystery of the Emblem's starting squad with any staying power to speak of are Arran, because he's your Jagen, Gordin for starting at LV5 and having actual stats unlike his brother, Marth because haha funny force-deployed, and Draug for being one of only TWO UNITS IN THE GAME who can use Lances indoors (that was always a weird one to me but OK). Note that that's the half of your base army that isn't the 7th Platoon. Even Gordin and Draug can easily be dropped, because they are an archer and a knight respectively, both classes with a historical reputation of being bad. Which, y'know. They kinda live up to.
at least with the Dawn Brigade, you can argue that those units get a spotlight, because unlike the 7th Platoon, you're stuck with them for about a third of the game, which actually gives you time to build them- not that it means anything, but the fact is, they can be worked with. The 7th Platoon gets outclassed instantly and it's hard to justify using them over most other units. Even in New Mystery, where you get an entire prologue dedicated to just them... they kinda stay bad and at most ONE of the cavaliers becomes usable.
anyway
that's my rant on why I don't like the 7th Platoon
...absolutely not the only low-thought rant I've posted (the others being "The Dawn Brigade is just trainee units" and "Alm is Fire Emblem's best 'avatar'")
It's just something I thought about randodmly

You're not wrong. It also doesn't give you any mages, which in Old Mystery tend to be the best units since shard and stat booster abuse can so easily give you units with such maxed stats that 1-2 range and hitting res become the only major distinguisher between units at end game.

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Eh, Luke is quite good. I like him as a Mercenary or Hunter and then a Horseman after promotion. Starting with a sword rank is quite nice, even if you leave it dormant until his promotion. Myrmidon!Ryan works fairly well, too. They're obviously not as good as Catria and Palla (nobody except Kris is), but with the combined male class set, they can at the very least differentiate themselves and they're probably the best characters (...except Kris...) to set up as Horsemen.

As long as we're talking about original MotE (was the "7th platoon" already a thing back then?), I can't really say much, except that I've heard that Gordin is legit good in that game. ;):

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I might be the only one who thinks this, but... Cyril is overrated to holy hell and back. It seems that discussion about him can be summed up as this: Everyone jizzes their pants over Vengeance, Point-Blank Volley, and his boon set, as though those give them a free pass to gloss over or even ignore his flaws.

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On 8/20/2021 at 9:25 PM, GlitchWarrior said:

Soooooooooooo for no reason whatsoever my brain just concocted a mental essay on why the Seventh Platoon is Fire Emblem's worst starting squad
but if I try to write it out I'll forget everything I'm about to say so here's the long low-editing version

snippity snip snip I'm not quoting all this

What you say is true... as far as the original MoTE is concerned. The remake shook up the power dynamic and made them all better, aside from arguably Cecil. That said, in my own (probably unpopular) opinion I actually prefer it the old way, since they're all new recruits whereas the other units have already fought one war. Even Matthis the incompetent coward made it out alive, and he's better than Luke and Roderick too.

That said you missed the mark on archers, they're actually better than hunters despite the raw numbers because those are largely irrelevant before Chapter 8 and beyond that there are a lot of maps where Horseman's mobility advantage is made moot. Book 2 Gordin is probably the first instance of an archer defying the crappy earlygame archer paradigm, even if the raw numbers make a poor first impression.

Also @Jotari I don't know what you're talking about, Mage is one of the rarest starter squad classes aside from Wyvern Rider. Also they do have meaningful weaknesses in MoTE, like chronic below-average movement and poor Atk growth without boosters.

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17 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

What you say is true... as far as the original MoTE is concerned. The remake shook up the power dynamic and made them all better, aside from arguably Cecil. That said, in my own (probably unpopular) opinion I actually prefer it the old way, since they're all new recruits whereas the other units have already fought one war. Even Matthis the incompetent coward made it out alive, and he's better than Luke and Roderick too.

That said you missed the mark on archers, they're actually better than hunters despite the raw numbers because those are largely irrelevant before Chapter 8 and beyond that there are a lot of maps where Horseman's mobility advantage is made moot. Book 2 Gordin is probably the first instance of an archer defying the crappy earlygame archer paradigm, even if the raw numbers make a poor first impression.

Also @Jotari I don't know what you're talking about, Mage is one of the rarest starter squad classes aside from Wyvern Rider. Also they do have meaningful weaknesses in MoTE, like chronic below-average movement and poor Atk growth without boosters.

I'm talking about end game and Old Mystery. Any mage is worth bringing to end game as in Old Mystery you can cover their weakness with shards and stat boosters. Which naturally you can do with any unit of any class in this game, but mages get the advantage of 1-2 range and res targeting which makes them the most useful. If the starter squad came with a mage then they'd probably be worth keeping till end game. As indeed Linde, who is gained very early, is.

Edited by Jotari
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I like the Monastery in Three Houses. 

 

I'm not playing for LTCs or speed-runs or Iron Mans, so the adding of stuff to do in the game that allows me to not only immerse myself in the game, but also get to know the characters, is always a win for me. This is one of the biggest things I love about the Mass Effect games as well, particularly 2 & 3 - I can travel around the ship (and 3, the Citadel as well) and talk to my crew between missions. I'd get a sense of how they're doing, what they're feeling, and what their relationship with Shepard, the war, and the world itself is like. They wouldn't always have new dialogue, but it was good to see. ME 3 even added some incentives to do this, like having a choice of Bonus Powers. 

Did the Monastery stuff grate on me eventually? Yes, but only after roughly 400 hours put into the game, and by that point, pretty much everything was grating. 

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