What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Sunwoo]

The developers and writers who worked on Fates (and on FE in general) aren't some novice young writers who need encouragement and to be "given credit" for "trying something new". They're professionals who are making a product they want people to pay for. Fates was not a cheap game, with the three paths sold separately like it was a Pokemon game. You don't just get credit just for trying when you're making a product for people to purchase, especially if you're part of a big company and not some indie developer.

Fates' issues and missteps were most likely due to forcing in fanservice and all the lovely stuff that goes with it in a game where it didn't fit, and it probably didn't help that there were crunch time issues either. But in my opinion, all of this combined to make Fates very mediocre and quite possibly a reason why the fanbase keeps on imploding on itself by taking sides and arguing about how which side is morally right, something that has continued on into 3H. And it really doesn't matter what themes or messages you put in the game if it comes out poorly and doesn't convey the message they wanted to. The people who made the game are adults. They don't need anyone handholding them and saying "you tried, gold sticker!"

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Of course it can. It's possible turn a corporate mandate into something thematically meaningful. But it's also possible to just...not. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it always is. Some things are obviously and admittedly phoned in.

And my point is we should respect the author enough to try and find meaning in their story even if we don’t personally think it’s there. Because how do you know there’s no deeper meaning present? You won’t know until you try to find it. Dissmissing something as having no meaning simply rude and arrogant. It’s so easy to say there’s no meaning here because Lilith is underdeveloped character when the death in question does have clearly visible effects on Corrin’s character and that is something worth looking at. It’s something worth looking at and analyzing. Corrin is clearly distraught by it and something like that inherently carries meaning. Any character action has meaning because every character action is a form of characterization which informs us about the character. Which again is meaning!! I am so so tired of this rhetoric that you keep saying you’re only analyzing what’s there because you’re not because if you were then you wouldn’t be saying it has no meaning when it clearly does. It may not be much and you may not like it but it is there whether you agree or disagree. Stop saying the story itself is being dismissive because it’s not, you are. If the story was dismissive then Corrin would not feel sad over Lilith’s death nor would they expand on her character in hidden truths. Not to mention the fact that she also appears at the end of the game and helps Corrin restore the broken Yato. So no the story is not dismissive of Lilith’s death, you are

Edited October 31, 2021 by Ottservia

[ping]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Of course it can. It's possible turn a corporate mandate into something thematically meaningful. But it's also possible to just...not. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it always is. Some things are obviously and admittedly phoned in.

Nah man, every time the leading actress in a Hollywood movie has a nude scene, it is actually a very meaningful addition to the movie's themes

--

• The song "Song 2" by Blur is named "Song 2" because it's the second song on the album.
• The surreal lyrics of the song "Where Is My Mind" by the Pixies was inspired by a little fish chasing the frontman Black Francis while he was scuba diving.
• In the Potterverse, the magic school for all of South America is named "Castelobruxo", Portuguese for "Castle Witch".
  • The Russian school is named "Koldovstoretz", a portmanteau of "koldovsto" (witchcraft, misspelled) and "tvoretz" (creator)
  • The Japanese school is named "Mahoutokoro", Magic Place, although it's apparently also not how Japanese works
• An early appearance of the Patrician of Ankh-Morpork, in which he acts extremely unlike his later established character, was explained by PTerry himself as the result of his inexperience as an author at that time.
• Mace Windu uses a purple lightsaber because Samuel L Jackson wanted a purple lightsaber.
• The mangaka just wanted to see tiddies.

I think it's safe to say that sometimes, things in fiction come to place because the creator just thought it was cool, thought it would sell well, didn't give a damn, or isn't particularly well-informed about what they are basing their creation on. It's not necessarily a bad thing at all (four out of those five bullet points I find cool or funny or both), but if an aspect of a creative work rubs me the wrong way and looks like it comes from one or more of these things (*coughbabyrealmscough*), I think I'm allowed to criticise it.

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

And my point is we should respect the author enough to try and find meaning in their story even if we don’t personally think it’s there. Because how do you know there’s no deeper meaning present? You won’t know until you try to find it. Dissmissing something as having no meaning simply rude and arrogant. It’s so easy to say there’s no meaning here because Lilith is underdeveloped character when the death in question does have clearly visible effects on Corrin’s character and that is something worth looking at. It’s something worth looking at and analyzing. Corrin is clearly distraught by it and something like that inherently carries meaning. Any character action has meaning because every character action is a form of characterization which informs us about the character. Which again is meaning!! I am so so tired of this rhetoric that you keep saying you’re only analyzing what’s there because you’re not because if you were then you wouldn’t be saying it has no meaning when it clearly does. It may not be much and you may not like it but it is there whether you agree or disagree. Stop saying the story itself is being dismissive because it’s not, you are. If the story was dismissive then Corrin would not feel sad over Lilith’s death nor would they expand on her character in hidden truths. Not to mention the fact that she also appears at the end of the game and helps Corrin restore the broken Yato. So no the story is not dismissive of Lilith’s death, you are

Because the writers completely failed to to express any deeper meaning to me through with the narrative as a result of shoddy writing. You're also strawmanning here, something I think you do frequently (though I think it's largely unintentional). No one has said Fates has "no meaning". I've just searched through the last few pages and you're the only one who has used that term in regards to Fates. Obviously Fates is trying to tell a story that's somewhat meaningful when it's not trying to sell skinshipping. The issue is that it does a poor job of actually creating something with nuance and depth for the people who criticize it. And the people who criticize it do analyze it, they point to issues in the plot that don't work for them and explain why (and if it didn't try to have meaning to some degree, people wouldn't be writing essays on why it fails, people, at least most people, don't critisize the plots of Mario games precisely because they don't try to have much narrative meaning). You just don't like the arguments people present because you're view of criticism is so bizarrely incompatible with the very notion of criticism, yet you still freely criticize Shadows of Valentia in more or less the exact same way people criticize Fates.

52 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The developers and writers who worked on Fates (and on FE in general) aren't some novice young writers who need encouragement and to be "given credit" for "trying something new". They're professionals who are making a product they want people to pay for. Fates was not a cheap game, with the three paths sold separately like it was a Pokemon game. You don't just get credit just for trying when you're making a product for people to purchase, especially if you're part of a big company and not some indie developer.

Fates' issues and missteps were most likely due to forcing in fanservice and all the lovely stuff that goes with it in a game where it didn't fit, and it probably didn't help that there were crunch time issues either. But in my opinion, all of this combined to make Fates very mediocre and quite possibly a reason why the fanbase keeps on imploding on itself by taking sides and arguing about how which side is morally right, something that has continued on into 3H. And it really doesn't matter what themes or messages you put in the game if it comes out poorly and doesn't convey the message they wanted to. The people who made the game are adults. They don't need anyone handholding them and saying "you tried, gold sticker!"

Any arguments over morality in Fates is hilariously subdued compared to the fanwars Three Houses sparked by choosing sides. I think Three Houses can take the lions share of that alone without attributing much to Fates.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Jotari

[Sunwoo]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Any arguments over morality in Fates is hilariously subdued compared to the fanwars Three Houses sparked by choosing sides. I think Three Houses can take the lions share of that alone without attributing much to Fates.

Both Fates and 3H were pretty bad about this morality issue at the peak of their popularities, with a nice side of racism thrown into the Fates debacle because one of the sides was fantasy Japan. Fates showed that the fanbase isn't mature enough to handle a story where you're allowed to side with the "bad guys" without turning themselves into pretzels to justify why their side is actually the unambiguously good side. 3H just amped it up to eleven.

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, ping said:

 

• The mangaka just wanted to see tiddies.

 

Reminds me of Ghost in the Shell.

Motoko/Major (The Protagonist) is bisexual.

This is literally just because Masamune Shirow, the Author, "didn't want to draw a man's ass" for a sex scene.

So yeah the protagonist's bisexuality is just so the Author could avoid drawing an ass. (Which is somewhat amusing in hindsight since Motoko's Boyfriend was pretty much ignored in later adaptations which ironically enough actually feature Motoko's Girlfriend's more as actual characters.)

Edited October 31, 2021 by Samz707

[Etrurian emperor]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Because the writers completely failed to to express any deeper meaning to me through with the narrative as a result of shoddy writing. You're also strawmanning here, something I think you do frequently (though I think it's largely unintentional). No one has said Fates has "no meaning". I've just searched through the last few pages and you're the only one who has used that term in regards to Fates. Obviously Fates is trying to tell a story that's somewhat meaningful when it's not trying to sell skinshipping. The issue is that it does a poor job of actually creating something with nuance and depth for the people who criticize it. And the people who criticize it do analyze it, they point to issues in the plot that don't work for them and explain why. You just don't like the arguments people present because you're view of criticism is so bizarrely incompatible with the very notion of criticism, yet you still freely criticize Shadows of Valentia in more or less the exact same way people criticize Fates.

Any arguments over morality in Fates is hilariously subdued compared to the fanwars Three Houses sparked by choosing sides. I think Three Houses can take the lions share of that alone without attributing much to Fates.

I think that’s mostly because there’s really something to chose. In Fates it’s between noble Nippon on one hand and Mordor on the other.

But a meritocracy steeped in blood or a stable but stifling lizard dictatorshi….uh I mean status quo is something you can have a discussion about 

[ping]

10 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Reminds me of Ghost in the Shell.

Motoko/Major (The Protagonist) is bisexual.

This is literally just because Masamune Shirow, the Author, "didn't want to draw a man's ass" for a sex scene.

So yeah the protagonist's bisexuality is just so the Author could avoid drawing an ass. (Which is somewhat amusing in hindsight since Motoko's Boyfriend was pretty much ignored in later adaptations which ironically enough actually feature Motoko's Girlfriend's more as actual characters.)

And I believe I've read somewhere that Titania in PoR/RD is Titania because the authors preferred a hot woman over the usual old geezer in the Jeigan role. Horny writers are the reason why Greil's Mercenaries have a woman as their co-commander.

Or the Super Saiyans, who have blond hair because that's white hair in the mostly B/W manga, which is less work to ink. And then Toriyama designed Cell.

Cool things happen for dumb reasons all the time. 🙂

[Dark Holy Elf]

33 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Both Fates and 3H were pretty bad about this morality issue at the peak of their popularities, with a nice side of racism thrown into the Fates debacle because one of the sides was fantasy Japan. Fates showed that the fanbase isn't mature enough to handle a story where you're allowed to side with the "bad guys" without turning themselves into pretzels to justify why their side is actually the unambiguously good side. 3H just amped it up to eleven.

3H went very consciously for the design choice of no side being completely the "bad guys". You can debate 3H's merits all you want but it's transparently obvious that the debates over which side is right was something the devs wanted. (I'm less certain what the goal was with Fates.)

9 minutes ago, ping said:

And I believe I've read somewhere that Titania in PoR/RD is Titania because the authors preferred a hot woman over the usual old geezer in the Jeigan role. Horny writers are the reason why Greil's Mercenaries have a woman as their co-commander.

I wouldn't put "preferring a woman", even a hot one, is just a sign of pure horniness (and diminishing it to such is a bit dismissive IMO). I think we could do well to analyze why the games had repeatedly had old men in the jeigan role, and applaud a game willing to switch that up, for whatever reason.

[Jotari]

26 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

3H went very consciously for the design choice of no side being completely the "bad guys".

Well, other than the Agarthans, of course.

[ping]

2 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I wouldn't put "preferring a woman", even a hot one, is just a sign of pure horniness (and diminishing it to such is a bit dismissive IMO). I think we could do well to analyze why the games had repeatedly had old men in the jeigan role, and applaud a game willing to switch that up, for whatever reason.

I do agree that there doesn't need to be a justification for a character to have any gender. For Titania, it seems that I had some developer commentary in the back of my mind:

Quote

[Titania] is a pretty looking "big sister" sort we put in place of the so-called "Jagen position"

Source - pages 134-135

Quote

Horikawa:  [...] Though, this time’s Jagan was made into a beautiful big sister-type at the strong request of the male staff (laughs).

--

Horikawa: There were a lot of passionate opinions flying around, such as “We should have an older sister as a retainer rather than an old man”, or “What is the best age [for her] to be?” (laughs). By the way, a personal request from Higuchi was that “the hair should have thick braids.”

Higuchi: The unit may look indistinguishable at a glance. There are a lot of them with long hair. So, that’s the reason for changing it up… well that and I really like peculiar hairstyles (laughs).

Kaneda: [...] From the earliest days of the series, we have asked the male staff’s preferences on female characters, and female staff’s preferences on male characters. (laughs)

Source

The answers are obviously given in a joking manner, but they do clearly read as "we made Titania a beautiful woman because staff members wanted a sexually attractive Jeigan", which is why I consider Titania a good character with a, well, horny IRL origin story.

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

3H went very consciously for the design choice of no side being completely the "bad guys". You can debate 3H's merits all you want but it's transparently obvious that the debates over which side is right was something the devs wanted. (I'm less certain what the goal was with Fates.)

Which is why so much of the fanbase keeps on imploding over Edelgard vs. Rhea vs. Dimitri in arguments that one side is entirely in the right, isn't it? Because I'm sure the devs were going for "X did nothing wrong and Y is pure evil".

The IS of today can't do morally gray right. After playing through all of CF, SS, and AM (and the vast majority of VW), it became very obvious to me that even if "morally gray" and "no side is completely bad" is what they were going for IS was too afraid to let Edelgard actually face the consequences of her actions because at the end of the day she's still the waifu they're trying to market. Hence, on her own path Edelgard is never really challenged in her beliefs and everyone else is made "worse" to make her look better, while in everyone else's routes she's portrayed far more sympathetically. It's basically what they did with Conquest. They were so afraid of their Nohr waifus and husbandos being less marketable if people thought they were "bad" that they basically divorced the actions of their route from the characters.

Either commit all the way and let all characters face the consequences of their actions equally, or stick to doing one path with one "good" side and one "bad" side. None of this wishy washy crap.

[Interdimensional Observer]

31 minutes ago, ping said:

The answers are obviously given in a joking manner, but they do clearly read as "we made Titania a beautiful woman because staff members wanted a sexually attractive Jeigan", which is why I consider Titania a good character with a, well, horny IRL origin story.

And here I thought it clearly had to inspiration from good old Jugdral, Eyvel & Dagdar to be precise, the most veteran of the group (even though Dagdar doesn't exactly belong, and Finn is ignored). The Greil Mercenaries are the oddest starting group since FE5, and Chapters 5-8 of PoR are a multi-chapter escape, like Munster 4-7 in Thracia. Titania is female, like Eyvel, but sticks with the heroes for the whole game, unlike Eyvel. Titania uses axes, like Dagdar, and secretly is attracted to the other Jagen- Greil, who is male like Dagdar, but finds his leadership and presence comparable to Eyvel's.

Amazing the elaborate unintentional headcanons fans can come up with.😆

 

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Either commit all the way and let all characters face the consequences of their actions equally, or stick to doing one path with one "good" side and one "bad" side. None of this wishy washy crap.

Or just don't be that serious about it.😛

Dynasty Warriors tries to tell a serious story. But, it acknowledges that when you set aside its historical trappings and modern anime-influenced characters, it's fundamentally a fun action romp where you feel like a warrior of legend.😄

I'm sure every DW fan has their preferred faction- All the Way with Wei! But I don't think they'll ever shut down the Internet over a hissy fit.

I ain't saying "Embrace the otaku within!", I'm not that degenerate, all I'm saying is FE could try being a little self-aware.

[Sunwoo]

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Or just don't be that serious about it.😛

Dynasty Warriors tries to tell a serious story. But, it acknowledges that when you set aside its historical trappings and modern anime-influenced characters, it's fundamentally a fun action romp where you feel like a warrior of legend.😄

I'm sure every DW fan has their preferred faction- All the Way with Wei! But I don't think they'll ever shut down the Internet over a hissy fit.

I ain't saying "Embrace the otaku within!", I'm not that degenerate, all I'm saying is FE could try being a little self-aware.

I mean, I don't need FE to be all serious and stuff. But what does need to stop is how the more recent games keep trying to shove certain interpretations of characters down the players' throats when it's not actually displayed in-game.

For example, Fates and all FE spinoffs can fuck off with Xander being the "good, noble prince" when in the actual stories, when faced with decisions, he just sticks his hands in his pockets and goes all "justice is an illusion". Xander can say whatever he wants to in the supports, we never really see him actually take action as he thinks a good prince should do, until it's revealed that Garon is a literal monster instead of just a metaphorical one. And yet, Warriors and Heroes seem very insistent on painting a picture of Xander that was never reality.

THAT is the kind of stuff IS needs to stop.

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Because the writers completely failed to to express any deeper meaning to me through with the narrative as a result of shoddy writing.

Yes, to you but that doesn’t apply to other people like myself. Just because you can’t see a deeper that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I’m just gonna keep repeating myself. Don’t dismiss things for not mattering when you can instead aim to figure why they do. 

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

You just don't like the arguments people present because you're view of criticism is so bizarrely incompatible with the very notion of criticism, yet you still freely criticize Shadows of Valentia in more or less the exact same way people criticize Fates.

Yeah because the criticisms people make towards Fates are usually completely stupid if I’m being honest. It reminds me a lot of Naruto discussion where people will actually lie or misconstrue context just to make it look worse than it actually is and that’s what really bothers me here. Because people completely disregard what fates is trying to say in order to create their dumb criticisms. Corrin isn’t a mary sue. Not everyone loves Corrin unconditionally and in regards to all the royals trusting Corrin that’s kind of the point. Fates’s narrative deals in themes regarding trust and family. It’s directly stated multiple times mind you that the Yato only grows in power when Corrin gains the trust of other people. Like literally in the heirs of fate dlc Kanna directly states that Yato didn’t transform into the omega Yato because she doubted Shigure. I don’t know how you can get more blunt than that. It’s also stated and shown multiple times that Corrin’s Naivete is both a strength and a weakness but oh no people just say “oh that’s player pandering worship” completely disregarding the themes of trust, truth, deceit, and betrayal the story tries to set up. This is what I mean by people being dismissive. They completely ignore these things about the story in order to make Fates look worse. I don’t mind criticisms of fates. In fact, I have plenty of my own but my criticisms respect what the narrative is trying to say and how certain things go against that point like being able to S-support the royals for instance.
 

Also you still haven’t provided a good counter argument for my previous point. instead, only pointing out that I’m strawmanning which ironically is a logical fallacy in it of itself. The fallacy fallacy to be specific. And even I’m not even strawmanning, you’re just being pedantic to say that I am

[Etrurian emperor]

29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm sure every DW fan has their preferred faction- All the Way with Wei! But I don't think they'll ever shut down the Internet over a hissy fit.

Yeah but most of the internet doesn't play and in fact really looks down on Dynasty Warriors. So there aren't many people to argue about it.

Down with the Imbeciles of Wei! Glory to the long lived and famously stable Jin Dynasty!

[Acacia Sgt]

I now have Skyrim and New Vegas flashbacks...

...

NCR! NCR! Go Imperial Legion!

Edited October 31, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

16 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Down with the Imbeciles of Wei! Glory to the long lived and famously stable Jin Dynasty!

Who gives a damn about a dagger? You have stabbed me deeper than FE ever could!🤣

Thank you for making my day!😄

Edited October 31, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[Samz707]

22 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yeah but most of the internet doesn't play and in fact really looks down on Dynasty Warriors. So there aren't many people to argue about it.

 

 

Do they? I hear they're kinda painfully easy but there's a ton of them so I figured they'd be popular. (Really the big reason I'm not interested in FE:W is because I don't like over half the cast.)

They even made not one but two Dragon Quest ones. 

 

40 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I mean, I don't need FE to be all serious and stuff. But what does need to stop is how the more recent games keep trying to shove certain interpretations of characters down the players' throats when it's not actually displayed in-game.

For example, Fates and all FE spinoffs can fuck off with Xander being the "good, noble prince" when in the actual stories, when faced with decisions, he just sticks his hands in his pockets and goes all "justice is an illusion". Xander can say whatever he wants to in the supports, we never really see him actually take action as he thinks a good prince should do, until it's revealed that Garon is a literal monster instead of just a metaphorical one. And yet, Warriors and Heroes seem very insistent on painting a picture of Xander that was never reality.

THAT is the kind of stuff IS needs to stop.

To be fair, Heroes also downplays the negative aspects of some villains. 

Like Zephiel liking Kiran and basically saying how Kiran has changed his mind a bit.

Because we all know some random robed Mute will change his mind.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

23 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t know how you can get more blunt than that. It’s also stated and shown multiple times that Corrin’s Naivete is both a strength and a weakness but oh no people just say “oh that’s player pandering worship” completely disregarding the themes of trust, truth, deceit, and betrayal the story tries to set up.

That's probably because its never really allowed to be much of a strength or a weakness. Its not much of a strength since Corrin's view on things makes him very unsuited for leadership and he bumbles in just about every trap laid out for him. But the story is also really shy about making it a real weakness. Not just by having the siblings spell out that Corrin can cause them as much trouble as he likes and they'll fix his mess, but because Corrin's bumbling often doesn't really have a consequence. Ike nearly driving a vital ally away caused his allies to gently take him aside and spell out that he's making a mistake. Roy opposing Etrurian corruption at least prompts the comment that it might be unwise to offend the nation they're dependent on. In contrast Corrin driving Kotaro has no consequences.. No one even remarks on it after the fact and despite Garon being established as executing people just for being in the same room as him he's bizarrely chill about Corrin destroying an alliance with another nation. And while Corrin falls into every trap they usually don't have lasting consequences.

Corrin's naivety is a strength in the sense it makes the siblings protective of him and that they babysit him out of pity, but he's mostly  a burden to them. 

29 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Not everyone loves Corrin

That's true. And in the sense of Takumi that's handled decently enough and adds something. But aside from that the only others that are unfavorably disposed of Corrin are (from the top of my head) Hana who's such a gigantic scumbag about it that it only makes Corrin look better, and Yukimura who only lashes out at Corrin because the writing clumsily have him deem Corrin a monster for crimes far minor than the ones he cheerfully shrugs off in another route. 

Not literally everyone but Corrin's still universally loved and anyone who doesn't love him seems to have something seriously wrong with them. However, even if it occasionally gets the plot in trouble it at least makes sense for Corrin to be loved. Corrin is after all very lovable. 

[Sunwoo]

5 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

To be fair, Heroes also downplays the negative aspects of some villains. 

Like Zephiel liking Kiran and basically saying how Kiran has changed his mind a bit.

Because we all know some random robed Mute will change his mind.

Heroes also downplayed Shinon by completely ignoring the fact that he's a racist. Dude doesn't even canonically have a reason to dislike them other than being a twat. As opposed to Jill, who was indoctrinated by Daein's teachings and eventually overcame it. But Xander is also one of the only non-OCs who had an actual recurring story role in the game for some time. Hence, why he gets singled out.

In general, Heroes leans way too much on the player worship and downplays negative traits of certain characters. But it still doesn't change the whole Xander thing specifically.

[Etrurian emperor]

14 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Do they? I hear they're kinda painfully easy but there's a ton of them so I figured they'd be popular. (Really the big reason I'm not interested in FE:W is because I don't like over half the cast.)

Its decreased a tad but the default reaction a lot of people had towards the series was a sense of contempt. The somewhat better reception these days probably has more to do with the the crossover IP's themselves being famous rather than a real change of heart regarding the formula. I couldn't help but notice the scores suddenly got quite a bit higher when it were Link and Luffy rather than long forgotten Chinese dudes doing the 1 vs 100 gameplay. 

[Samz707]

10 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Heroes also downplayed Shinon by completely ignoring the fact that he's a racist. Dude doesn't even canonically have a reason to dislike them other than being a twat. As opposed to Jill, who was indoctrinated by Daein's teachings and eventually overcame it. But Xander is also one of the only non-OCs who had an actual recurring story role in the game for some time. Hence, why he gets singled out.

In general, Heroes leans way too much on the player worship and downplays negative traits of certain characters. But it still doesn't change the whole Xander thing specifically.

Yeah obviously but he's not the only one.

Lyndis got flanderized in Awakening and we're still stuck with that characterization. (I hear that her Uncle, her literal driving motivation in Lyn mode, gets mentioned in one or two non voiced lines, in all of Lyn's alts, because why talk about that when we can have her simp for the player?)

Oh yeah Veronica has a thing for Xander, I actually completely forgot about that.

Doesn't Shinon actually get over it? but it's late-game and easy to miss.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Samz707

[Anathaco]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I just think it’s rude and disrespectful to say a story has no meaning when it clearly does because otherwise there wouldn’t be people who would legitimately feel sad over Lilith’s death.

There are plenty of reasons one might be sad over a character’s death but the one I think fits Lilith the best is that some people just liked her character. That’s not to say that people are at fault for being sad over the death of a favourite character, but it doesn’t change the fact that from a thematic and plot driven perspective, there is no consequence for her death whatsoever. If the authors truly intended it to have meaning, they’d make it more important to the rest of the plot than her showing up as a ghost to encourage Corrin in the final chapter.

Granted if someone could actually come up with a full length thesis on why her death was actually really important, I’m down to be proven wrong, but to be frank I’m keeping my expectations low.

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Do they? I hear they're kinda painfully easy but there's a ton of them so I figured they'd be popular. (Really the big reason I'm not interested in FE:W is because I don't like over half the cast.)

They can be good for the nonsexual kind of fanservice, but they're like those CyberConnect 2 anime brawlers, or outside of gaming, like Hollywood action flicks. They're kinda cheesy, and not high art, but for a certain crowd if they're just trying to relax and have a thrilling fun time, they're good. Comfort food in a sense.

As for prolificness, that does not always equate to popularity.:

• Super Robot Wars has put out at least one title a year for the past 30 years, barring 1992 when the franchise was but two games-old, and 2020, when covid halted everything. And yet, even when factoring in that this franchise has until very recently been Japan-only with three weird exceptions, its sales have fluctuated within the past decade between 60k for Lord of Elemental F: Coffin of the End, and 400k for Z2 Hakai-Hen. 
• Similarly, Gust is a small developer that tries to put out an Atelier franchise title every year since '97. And I've heard from an Internet acquaintance, that it was stated in an interview that the reason this small company puts out a niche game every year, is because they have financial obligations to meet, employees who need their daily bread. If Gust slowed production, they would go up in smoke.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer