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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah but what are those plot issues? You’re not specifying. Cause from where I’m standing those plot issues don’t exist. If it’s the plot contrivance of the Valla curse. Then that’s subjective because contrivance is a suspension of disbelief thing. There are a couple if places where it does break verisimilitude but aside from one they’re all small instances that don’t really matter all that much. If it’s Leo’s teleport tome again that’s suspension of disbelief. If it’s world building then that’s a subjective thing because the story had no intention on expanding on the world in the way you wanted it too. It only goes down to aesthetics. Okay why is that a bad thing? Not every story needs to explore their setting with a huge amount of depth. Like what plot issues are you talking about? Cause I don’t see any

Considering that you're already trying to invalidate the issues you think I could bring up by dumping everything in the "it's subjective and thus can't be argued about" box, by using the concepts of contrivance and suspension of disbelief in a way that makes me doubt you understand what they're supposed to mean in the context of criticism of a story, and that you're, curiously, pointedly ignoring the post that already pointed out contradictions in the story to you, you'll have to forgive me if I don't feel like engaging in a pretend debate that will just be you finding more windmills to shake your sword at and then brag that you've debunked giants.

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5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It might be for the layman. But if you're a Fire Emblem fan then that implies you enjoy anime inspiration. Fire Emblem has always been anime so we can safely assume that this in itself is not a deal breaker for any Fire Emblem fan. But there is a difference between being anime and being ''skinship with your real little sister and oh yeah mom gave me this letter'' anime. Or more concretely: One can indulge oneselves in everything Japanese through Persona 5 and appropriate the anime aesthetics of Fire Emblem while at the same time that the large focus on Idols and high school students is a step too much in Tokyo mirrage. 

And if someone is turned off from a Fire Emblem game because it's "too anime", then so what? It's their prerogative to do so. It's not like it's a criticism any reasonable person is ever going to pretend is objective. I don't think someone's critisism of a game being "I think it's bad because it's too anime" needs to be clarified with "I think it's bad because it's too anime and I subjectively don't like or understand the appeal of anime which by virtue of the tropes it uses and the mass appeal devalues what I see as genuinely compelling literature, of course the people who like it do so earnestly and I have no power nor desire to force them to do otherwise even if I find their tastes to be incompatible with my own". (Disclaimer, this is not my opinion).

Also I'm guessing you meant appreciate and not appropriate?

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10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You prove my point there with your lumping together arguments from "people" instead of actually listening to the people you're really talking to. The phrase "Ryoma's death is stupid" has been made on this site precisely once, by you, just now. And now twice with me in this post. Literally no one on Serenes has ever said "Ryoma's death is stupid". Maybe they've said some variation of it with extra context that you just axe because you're not listening. Even doing a google search of "Ryoma's death is stupid", the only relevant Fire Emblem result that comes up is a GameFaqs thread about Ryoma's death being better than Xander's.

That’s not exactly what I’m doing but whatever believe what you want to believe I suppose. I’m kind of done with this debate.

 

5 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Isn't one of your major complaints about SoV is how Alm's talent undermines the contrast between Nobles, and peasants? The noble and peasant themes are so linked to hard work vs. talent, that its rather easy to find evidence for hard work vs. talent being a thematic component of SoV.

 

No my issue with Alm is more so the game says he’s a commoner it’s because of that he represents the idea of anyone can be king with the right ideals not necessarily hard work because the story does make that distinction. But then it turns he was royal all along which just kind of makes the whole conflict pointless. 

 

1 minute ago, Kori said:

Considering that you're already trying to invalidate the issues you think I could bring up by dumping everything in the "it's subjective and thus can't be argued about" box, by using the concepts of contrivance and suspension of disbelief in a way that makes me doubt you understand what they're supposed to mean in the context of criticism of a story, and that you're, curiously, pointedly ignoring the post that already pointed out contradictions in the story to you, you'll have to forgive me if I don't feel like engaging in a pretend debate that will just be you finding more windmills to shake your sword at and then brag that you've debunked giants.

Maybe it’s because I’ve heard those complaints a million times. Thought about them for a long time and realized how dumb they really are. Cause I used to have those exact criticisms of fates once upon a time but after really thinking about those criticisms I’ve concluded those criticisms don’t make sense for varying reasons

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1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

That’s not exactly what I’m doing but whatever believe what you want to believe I suppose. I’m kind of done with this debate.

It is though. There are plenty of actual criticisms people have here that you can point to, but you invent ones like "Ryoma's death is stupid", which no one is actually saying.

7 minutes ago, Kori said:

Considering that you're already trying to invalidate the issues you think I could bring up by dumping everything in the "it's subjective and thus can't be argued about" box, by using the concepts of contrivance and suspension of disbelief in a way that makes me doubt you understand what they're supposed to mean in the context of criticism of a story, and that you're, curiously, pointedly ignoring the post that already pointed out contradictions in the story to you, you'll have to forgive me if I don't feel like engaging in a pretend debate that will just be you finding more windmills to shake your sword at and then brag that you've debunked giants.

Yeah, a large portion of this early thread was dedicated towards trying to explain those terms.

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18 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It might be for the layman. But if you're a Fire Emblem fan then that implies you enjoy anime inspiration. Fire Emblem has always been anime so we can safely assume that this in itself is not a deal breaker for any Fire Emblem fan. But there is a difference between being anime and being ''skinship with your real little sister and oh yeah mom gave me this letter'' anime. Or more concretely: One can indulge oneselves in everything Japanese through Persona 5 and appropriate the anime aesthetics of Fire Emblem while at the same time that the large focus on Idols and high school students is a step too much in Tokyo mirrage. 

Ah yes how dare a Japanese company pander to its domestic audience with things they think they’ll like. Oh no a Japanese company creating a story about the Japanese idol industry with a heavy anime aesthetic to appeal to that demographic of people. How dare they! How dare they don’t care about my western sensibilities that finds that stuff icky and uncomfortable. It’s not like atlus and IS are Japanese companies or anything that care about their domestic market first and foremost rather than their overseas audience 

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40 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Yeah, but also no stat screwage + (easy) weapon ranks. 

To cut it short: I think OS are an oh-shit-button in case something goes wrong down the line and for that they work. Maybe not great, maybe not terrible, useful nevertheless.

Again, it doesn't really feel impressive when I could've gotten better results earlier, and without the extra hassle. For example, I cannot be impressed by having D rank in whatever secondary weapon the class they promote to (assuming they promote to a class with such) in chapter 21 when I could have gotten that far earlier.

I would see the "oh-shit button" aspect as only being worthwhile in an ironman run, and even then, I'd consider it dubious, given how hard some of them can be (especially Ignatius; I saw someone try to do his paralogue after the promotion point in an ironman, and to say it didn't go well for them would be an understatement. Charlotte, who this player dragged through Anankos knows how many chapters as an unpromoted unit and only got promoted before the paralogue in question, got critblicked into oblivion, and Ignatius fell before the player could recruit him. The cherry on top of this disaster cake? Corrin died. Oh, and this same person lost Camilla in Percy's paralogue. No prizes for guessing whether this was after the promotion time).

Edited by Shadow Mir
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1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

Ah yes how dare a Japanese company pander to its domestic audience with things they think they’ll like. Oh no a Japanese company creating a story about the Japanese idol industry with a heavy anime aesthetic to appeal to that demographic of people. How dare they! How dare they don’t care about my western sensibilities that finds that stuff icky and uncomfortable. It’s not like atlus and IS are Japanese companies or anything that care about their domestic market first and foremost rather than their overseas audience 

Persona already had an earlier idol theme where they implied there were strong reasons as to why the Japanese might want to start feeling icky too. So them then playing the idol trope straight again does seem a little weird.

And at some point the design team should have noticed that they were designing for an international audience. Focusing too much on the home audience comes with risks. Yeah, building an entire game around a premise that those outside of Japan find weird or even gross does have consequences. Or putting in such a weird and obscure domestic feature like skinship which proceeded to be impossible to localize while simultaneously inviting mockery. If you're selling to an international audience than appeals to the domestic market shall only get you so far. 

And the times were the west was a mere fringe demographic for Japanese games is kinda over. It has been over for a long time now, and its not unreasonable for companies to keep that in mind. Both to avoid skinship related incidents and to ensure their audience doesn't grow restless or resentful. 

 

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These two statements are not equivalent.

41 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

One can indulge oneselves in everything Japanese through Persona 5 and appropriate the anime aesthetics of Fire Emblem while at the same time that the large focus on Idols and high school students is a step too much in Tokyo mirrage. 

 

18 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Ah yes how dare a Japanese company pander to its domestic audience with things they think they’ll like. Oh no a Japanese company creating a story about the Japanese idol industry with a heavy anime aesthetic to appeal to that demographic of people. How dare they! How dare they don’t care about my western sensibilities that finds that stuff icky and uncomfortable. It’s not like atlus and IS are Japanese companies or anything that care about their domestic market first and foremost rather than their overseas audience 

Do you really not understand why I say you're strawmanning when you turn A into B? Because, and forgive me if I'm incorrect Etrurian Emperor, but that is in no way what he was saying. He made a subjective statement that you twisted into an outright attack. And even if we were to throw objectivity into the matter, Tokyo Mirage Sessions did underperform, people did feel turned off by it and their feelings are entirely legitimate (which is a damn shame as the gameplay was great).

17 minutes ago, Kori said:

Sorry if I brought up something that you'd already gone over, then.

Nothing worth apologizing over. If anything it shows people are on the same track.

Edited by Jotari
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28 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m kind of done with this debate.

Do you want me to reply to yesterday's reply to me, or no? I don't mind if you'd rather I don't.

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Iron Manning FE3H is perfectly fine, and not as insane as everyone says. It's an INCREDIBLY underrated way of playing the game. Not here to argue. Just here to make this statement. I don't want to hear any objections. 😏 Have a nice day lads.

 

The Chosen One has spoken. His words are absolute 😉 *makes a grand exit*

(ps: watch my iron man and pray I don't lose again lul💀)

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36 minutes ago, Benice said:

Do you want me to reply to yesterday's reply to me, or no? I don't mind if you'd rather I don't.

If you want to I won’t stop you because I actually enjoy debating this stuff with you.

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2 minutes ago, TheChoZenOne said:

Iron Manning FE3H is perfectly fine, and not as insane as everyone says. It's an INCREDIBLY underrated way of playing the game. Not here to argue. Just here to make this statement. I don't want to hear any objections. 😏 Have a nice day lads.

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1 minute ago, TheChoZenOne said:

OH NO, Not Merlinus!! He was the most OP unit in my FE7 run!!

Well, now I'm using him against you.

...And that's it. I only wanted to use that image. I've no arguments to make.

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Just now, Saint Rubenio said:

Well, now I'm using him against you.

...And that's it. I only wanted to use that image. I've no arguments to make.

It's a pretty powerful image, ngl. I feel like an actual arguement WAS made just from how powerful that objectionable mustache is xD Merlinus is the CHAD Attorney confirmed

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1 minute ago, TheChoZenOne said:

It's a pretty powerful image, ngl. I feel like an actual arguement WAS made just from how powerful that objectionable mustache is xD Merlinus is the CHAD Attorney confirmed

He's certainly a better attorney than he is an advisor. Seriously, I know you haven't played FE6, so you only know him from the game where he's tolerable, but... Well, he spends the entirety of Binding Blade nagging Roy for doing anything, going out of his way to contradict him at every turn and being paranoid about traps and spies and ambushes. But then, the one and only time he relaxes also happens to be the only time Roy and company had actually fallen into a trap. It's hilarious how incompetent the guy is. And he's August's direct successor in the line of "old advisor guy" tropes, too. How do you go from the best to the worst just like that?

Is that an unpopular opinion? Merlinus dumb and bad? If so, I guess I haven't gone completely off topic, haha.

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37 minutes ago, TheChoZenOne said:

Iron Manning FE3H is perfectly fine, and not as insane as everyone says. It's an INCREDIBLY underrated way of playing the game. Not here to argue. Just here to make this statement. I don't want to hear any objections. 😏 Have a nice day lads.

 

The Chosen One has spoken. His words are absolute 😉 *makes a grand exit*

(ps: watch my iron man and pray I don't lose again lul💀)

That's another unpopular opinion I have. I just can't see the appeal of watching someone else play Fire Emblem. Someone talking about Fire Emblem and the strategies they use, or even their experiences iron manning, sure, that's interesting, but watching people actually play it? I'd rather just do that myself. Of course, I feel that way about all video games and even sports in general.

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17 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's not like Three Houses is exempt from that though, not that it was exlucisvely the only role of female characters previously. I've seen the joke made more than once that "I'd be religious if Rhea were my pope!" And the cynic in me says that Edelgard's design  is a major part in why people like her. Not because of how sexy she is or isn't, but more because she isn't visually designed to look like a villain. I think if she had Ashnard's shut eating grin  more people would be less sweet on her.

Oh, right, Rhea exists.  She's interesting because she's a different character depending on which route you take.  As for Edelgard, people follow her because they think she's competent, and IMO that's a step in the right direction.

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

He's certainly a better attorney than he is an advisor. Seriously, I know you haven't played FE6, so you only know him from the game where he's tolerable, but... Well, he spends the entirety of Binding Blade nagging Roy for doing anything, going out of his way to contradict him at every turn and being paranoid about traps and spies and ambushes. But then, the one and only time he relaxes also happens to be the only time Roy and company had actually fallen into a trap. It's hilarious how incompetent the guy is. And he's August's direct successor in the line of "old advisor guy" tropes, too. How do you go from the best to the worst just like that?

Is that an unpopular opinion? Merlinus dumb and bad? If so, I guess I haven't gone completely off topic, haha.

Eh.  The lesson here IMO is that Roy needs to vet his applicants before making them his advisors.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's another unpopular opinion I have. I just can't see the appeal of watching someone else play Fire Emblem. Someone talking about Fire Emblem and the strategies they use, or even their experiences iron manning, sure, that's interesting, but watching people actually play it? I'd rather just do that myself. Of course, I feel that way about all video games and even sports in general.

Neither can I.  I'd rather be playing FE!

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13 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Oh, right, Rhea exists.  She's interesting because she's a different character depending on which route you take.  As for Edelgard, people follow her because they think she's competent, and IMO that's a step in the right direction.

If totally vanishing from the story can be considered a character >.> but yeah, I get you. It is novel that Three Houses is a female vs female conflict that doesn't make a big deal about that fact.

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4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

He's certainly a better attorney than he is an advisor. Seriously, I know you haven't played FE6, so you only know him from the game where he's tolerable, but... Well, he spends the entirety of Binding Blade nagging Roy for doing anything, going out of his way to contradict him at every turn and being paranoid about traps and spies and ambushes. But then, the one and only time he relaxes also happens to be the only time Roy and company had actually fallen into a trap.

It really speaks poorly of Merlinus that his only role in the plot is to be wrong about everything so that Roy can shine all the brighter. I know that the way Binding Blade tells its story is kinda structured around a limiting format but there were better way to show Roy is clever than put him next to a guy who's wrong all the time. 

I often think that Clive is a less extreme version of Merlinus because while he's not hopelessly inept like Merlinus he's still 100% in the wrong every single time he and Alm don't agree on something. He's there mostly to highlight how great Alm is while showcasing how ill founded the opposition to Alm's command and ideals are.

I think you can argue that Skrimir might also be a ''Merlinus'' since everything that comes out of his mouth is a mistake in the early parts of Radiant Dawn, and that he's mainly there to highlight the relative stupidity of the Laguz and point out why they need Soren so much. If one could call him a Merlinus then he's easily the best one though because even when he's incompetent the game makes it clear he has many positive qualities too.

Could Shinon be counted as a Merlinus? He's not an advisor or plot important but a key distinction of being a Merlinus is being wrong all the time to make another character look good in comparison. And boy does Ike come off well when the racist drunk start going on about how much he hates him for no reason at all. Opposition to Ike's position couldn't be better undermined than by making Shinon the spokes person for the anti Ike camp. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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37 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Could Shinon be counted as a Merlinus? He's not an advisor or plot important but a key distinction of being a Merlinus is being wrong all the time to make another character look good in comparison. And boy does Ike come off well when the racist drunk start going on about how much he hates him for no reason at all. Opposition to Ike's position couldn't be better undermined than by making Shinon the spokes person for the anti Ike camp. 

Obviously this is just my opinion and I'm sure other people feel differently, but I never actually felt Shinon's hatred for Ike made Ike look any better. It just made Shinon look like a jealous whiny ass baby with no effect on Ike himself. (In other words, everything about Shinon's personality, nothing about Ike as a character.)

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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Obviously this is just my opinion and I'm sure other people feel differently, but I never actually felt Shinon's hatred for Ike made Ike look any better. It just made Shinon look like a jealous whiny ass baby with no effect on Ike himself. (In other words, everything about Shinon's personality, nothing about Ike as a character.)

I also find his specific objections to Ike as a leader pretty reasonable.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I also find his specific objections to Ike as a leader pretty reasonable.

Yeah, his actual concerns about Ike being leader is fair enough. It's his attitude that makes him a whiny ass baby.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Oh, right, Rhea exists.  She's interesting because she's a different character depending on which route you take.  As for Edelgard, people follow her because they think she's competent, and IMO that's a step in the right direction.

Personally I don’t see what’s so wrong about people liking a character solely for being attractive. I don’t see how that’s a problem. People can like whatever they want for whatever reason they want. And I find it kind concerning that people dismiss a female character’s merits because boobs. Like a character being sexy doesn’t suddenly take away from the nuance of their character and why people relate to them. Oftentimes the fact that they have massive bozangas is just a bonus. And again what’s so wrong with liking a character solely for that reason?

Edited by Ottservia
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