Jump to content

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Dayni said:

I will say it could have been worse, Hinata while not all that good could have been a lot worse. There is some interesting approaches with some of these units and it could be worse.

Subaki was awful as a unit though and I still stand by that.

I think Subaki needed more concrete durability, given it canceled out to only average with Peg's low base and growth. His Spd was average-ish due to Peg's leanings, but Hinoka having a much better Personal Skill and significant Str/Spd leads while not being glass, and Reina having bases that'd last her from beginning to end, and Shigure and Caeldori being things, plus late recruit Kiragshi, just really knocks Subaki out of the Hoshidan Peg competition.

Hinata and Subaki both have some of the lowest total growths not belonging to old people in Fates. Hinata's 235 loses only to Setsuna's 225, and Subaki's 250 is the third worst not-old total. Hana has a more respectable 265, and Ryoma and Hinoka are at the higher end with 300 and 305 respectively. 

 

2 hours ago, Sasori said:

Part 2 is great with Story, but  I don’t care for the maps themselves all that much. 2-e being the exception of course, but stuff like the Brom/Neph chapter are no fun to me. Likewise a lot of part 3 maps don’t do it for me.

Its also a game that doesn’t let you experiment all that much till endgame. A neccesary evil since there are 4 part, but it still means the game is a bit harder to pick up again.

I have to agree 2-1 is something of a chore, a novel idea in need of another unit or two (why not have Danved pass through town?).

Likewise, RD's part system makes the usual approach to FE of using your favorites from beginning to end very difficult. Although Fates giving you practically everyone by like Chapter 14 Conquest/BR and 17 Rev was too front-loaded for me, I like lategame prepromotes and saved most of the children to fill that niche.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 9.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

* Ninian sucks, she is a terrible character,  a very annoying damsels in distress.

* Despite the disjointed story, Conquest was a very enjoyable game (Birthright and Revelations not really though)

* I don't dislike Lyn, but don't get her appeal and why she is really popular. Maybe because she was the first female lord and is "hot"? 

* Lucina x Robin sucks, this makes her a coward pathetic, she is better single or paired with another second gen character 

* Deirdre x Sigurd equally sucks because he is just shallow 

* It's possible playing FE4 without abusing mounted units, you just need to play it slower 

Not sure how much unpopular some of these opinions are 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Mylady said:

Despite the disjointed story, Conquest was a very enjoyable game (Birthright and Revelations not really though)

“Disjointed story” I think that summarizes the whole of all the problems fates’ story has in general. Birthright and revelations included. Honestly the more I think about it the more I’ve come to realize the reason Fates’ story sucks so much isn’t so much Corrin or the villains (cause those are fine and can work well with very minor tweaks) but rather the overall structure of the narrative itself. Like the story isn’t focused at all and just kinda neanders from plot point to plot point without anything to really tie it together making it all feel arbitrary and disjointed.

Edited by Ottservia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

“Disjointed story” I think that summarizes the whole of all the problems fates’ story has in general. Birthright and revelations included. Honestly the more I think about it the more I’ve come to realize the reason Fates’ story sucks so much isn’t so much Corrin or the villains (cause those are fine and can work well with very minor tweaks) but rather the overall structure of the narrative itself. Like the story isn’t focused at all and just kinda neanders from plot point to plot point without anything to really tie it together making it all feel arbitrary and disjointed.

I'd say you're correct in regards to Birthright and Revelation but Conquest is actually pretty decent in terms of structure. In Birthright and Revelation the problem is that you're often just going from point A to point B with random fights happening on the way. The problems with Conquest resolves around weird crystal balls, Corrin being silly and Iago dominating the party despite being a pathetic loser, but not really its structure. The Conquest story can be neatly sorted into several little arcs that are even set up somewhat properly. One ''arc'' Corrin is spend doing little chores for Garon and when needing to invade an island we actually have a chapter where Corrin goes to a port town. Later when tasked with invading hoshido Corrin visits a logical route through  (supposed) allies and neutral nations until reaching the hoshidan border. 

Its a pretty natural evolution from doing Garon's chores, to finding out something is terribly wrong in Nohr, to finding out invading hoshido is the answer to all those problems and eventually launching that invasion. The structure is there, its everything else that's terrible. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/4/2019 at 2:23 PM, Mylady said:

*I don't dislike Lyn, but don't get her appeal and why she is really popular. Maybe because she was the first female lord and is "hot"? 

Yeah; that basically the overall reason of her popularity; there are several reasons; but pretty much all of them are around what do you say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/29/2019 at 6:46 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd say you're correct in regards to Birthright and Revelation but Conquest is actually pretty decent in terms of structure. In Birthright and Revelation the problem is that you're often just going from point A to point B with random fights happening on the way. The problems with Conquest resolves around weird crystal balls, Corrin being silly and Iago dominating the party despite being a pathetic loser, but not really its structure. The Conquest story can be neatly sorted into several little arcs that are even set up somewhat properly. One ''arc'' Corrin is spend doing little chores for Garon and when needing to invade an island we actually have a chapter where Corrin goes to a port town. Later when tasked with invading hoshido Corrin visits a logical route through  (supposed) allies and neutral nations until reaching the hoshidan border. 

Its a pretty natural evolution from doing Garon's chores, to finding out something is terribly wrong in Nohr, to finding out invading hoshido is the answer to all those problems and eventually launching that invasion. The structure is there, its everything else that's terrible. 

That's fair it's been a while since I've really gotten a chance to truly dig into fates' story and break it down. I'll have to do that at some point

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Troykv said:

Yeah; that basically the overall reason of her popularity; there are several reasons; but pretty much all of them are around what do you say.

I won't deny that "first lord" and "hot girl" are appeal points to Lyn, in the same way Lucina is very popular as "hot starter girl" for a lot of fans.

But for my own unpopular (?) opinion, as a Lyn fan, there is a lot more to Lyn than people give her credit. People accuse her of being just the tutorial girl and a tagalong to the main plot but people seem to ignore that Hector is also largely a tagalong to Eliwood's story. All three lords get a character arc but the latter half of Lyn's character arc is handled primarily through her supports and character endings as opposed to the main story, so it often goes unnoticed.

Not calling out anyone specifically, but I feel like a lot of people who dismiss Lyn never really engaged her character that seriously.

Edited by NekoKnight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I won't deny that "first lord" and "hot girl" are appeal points to Lyn, in the same way Lucina is very popular as "hot starter girl" for a lot of fans.

But for my own unpopular (?) opinion, as a Lyn fan, there is a lot more to Lyn than people give her credit. People accuse her of being just the tutorial girl and a tagalong to the main plot but people seem to ignore that Hector is also largely a tagalong to Eliwood's story. All three lords get a character arc but the latter half of Lyn's character arc is handled primarily through her supports and character endings as opposed to the main story, so it often goes unnoticed.
 

But Lucina is the most modestly dressing female lord while Lyn is the least so I'm not sure that's an equivalent comparison and this logic can be used against Lyn by comparing her to Camilla even though that's a pretty big stretch. 

Supports and character endings are a weak way to develop characters IMO for various reasons, especially for someone of Lyn's caliber. They can easily be missed. There is a cap of 5 supports per character. They are disjointed from the plot so the dialogue feels more arbitrary than sequential like base conversations, for example. 

20 hours ago, Troykv said:

Yeah; that basically the overall reason of her popularity; there are several reasons; but pretty much all of them are around what do you say.

What about Micaiah's popularity? 

On 29/04/2019 at 6:46 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

The problems with Conquest resolves around weird crystal balls, Corrin being silly and Iago dominating the party despite being a pathetic loser, but not really its structure. The Conquest story can be neatly sorted into several little arcs that are even set up somewhat properly. One ''arc'' Corrin is spend doing little chores for Garon and when needing to invade an island we actually have a chapter where Corrin goes to a port town. Later when tasked with invading hoshido Corrin visits a logical route through  (supposed) allies and neutral nations until reaching the hoshidan border. 

How is this necessarily a problem that drags down the story? Part 1 Naruto is silly as is Luffy, but I wouldn't say part 1 Naruto and One Piece are weak narratives. I'd actually rate One Piece higher than any FE game and Naruto had that potential as well if it stayed at the same quality as part one. 

Edited by Icelerate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Naruto had that potential as well if it stayed at the same quality as part one. 

Hard disagree on this as I feel shippuden is actually better than part 1 in a lot of ways but this discussion is best held via PM or something so I’ll just leave this video here.

 

Edited by Ottservia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

How is this necessarily a problem that drags down the story? Part 1 Naruto is silly as is Luffy, but I wouldn't say part 1 Naruto and One Piece are weak narratives. I'd actually rate One Piece higher than any FE game and Naruto had that potential as well if it stayed at the same quality as part one. 

Its not quite the same. Naruto being an idiot doesn't really matter because he's so low on the food chain. Generally Naruto doesn't make the decisions so there's hardly much risk of him making bad decisions. The series even ends with Naruto being told he can't become hokage unless he picks up a book for once. Corrin isn't like that, being almost immediately made a leader and bungling from one awful decision into the next. 

There's also the fact that Naruto and Luffy are supposed to be idiots. They follow the typical idiot Shonen hero template while Corrin isn't supposed to be an idiot at all. Corrin is supposed to always be right and we all need to admire him really much. Naruto and Luffy are successful idiots, Corrin accidentally got turned into a fool. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

But for my own unpopular (?) opinion, as a Lyn fan, there is a lot more to Lyn than people give her credit. People accuse her of being just the tutorial girl and a tagalong to the main plot but people seem to ignore that Hector is also largely a tagalong to Eliwood's story. All three lords get a character arc but the latter half of Lyn's character arc is handled primarily through her supports and character endings as opposed to the main story, so it often goes unnoticed.

I agree with this, while Lyn might not be my favorite lord of all time, but I do hate when people act like.....she brought nothing to FE7, like without her the game wouldn't had been any better, if anything she made it a better game by being there, her story while short, is still charming in it's own way, and of course her presence in Eliwood/Hector story while not needed, but it still brought something good to the table.

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Supports and character endings are a weak way to develop characters IMO for various reasons, especially for someone of Lyn's caliber. They can easily be missed. There is a cap of 5 supports per character. They are disjointed from the plot so the dialogue feels more arbitrary than sequential like base conversations, for example. 

21 hours ago, Troykv said:

I disagree with this,  I think supports are a good way to develop characters, there is a reason why the characters pre-supports are looked at as very little developed. And while yes they are easy to miss, and for sure might feel less important if they weren't in the main story, but they don't really need to be looking at how most of them normally don't have anything to do with the main story that's taking place anyway, if anything I find it a nice way to take your focus off the main plot and put it on the little interactions between two characters and see how they develop. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I slightly prefer Fates over Awakening, mainly because:

  • Fate's cast has 5 more characters that I actually like (Laslow and Orboro for example) as opposed to Awakening's cast, which was a grand number of....2.
  • Conquest's gameplay. While I don't think the second half of the game is that good, Conquest's gameplay overall is miles better than the rest of 3DS titles.
  • Fates did a better job with the pair-up mechanic than Awakening did.

Both games still feel like a waste $50+ though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Hard disagree on this as I feel shippuden is actually better than part 1 in a lot of ways but this discussion is best held via PM or something so I’ll just leave this video here.

 

That was a good video. But it doesn't show or imply that part 2 is better than part 1 as the focus was on talk no jutsu, not which part is better. After watching all three of his videos, I'm now even more convinced that part one is better because in general, the talk no jutsu was more compelling in part one than in part two. That doesn't mean part two isn't without merits though. I was thinking of PMing you about Naruto, it's an interesting series to discuss. 

2 hours ago, Rose482 said:

I disagree with this,  I think supports are a good way to develop characters, there is a reason why the characters pre-supports are looked at as very little developed. And while yes they are easy to miss, and for sure might feel less important if they weren't in the main story, but they don't really need to be looking at how most of them normally don't have anything to do with the main story that's taking place anyway, if anything I find it a nice way to take your focus off the main plot and put it on the little interactions between two characters and see how they develop. 

For side characters yes but there is a reason why Roy and sometimes Lyn are looked as underwhelming despite their supports. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

That was a good video. But it doesn't show or imply that part 2 is better than part 1 as the focus was on talk no jutsu, not which part is better. After watching all three of his videos, I'm now even more convinced that part one is better because in general, the talk no jutsu was more compelling in part one than in part two. That doesn't mean part two isn't without merits though. I was thinking of PMing you about Naruto, it's an interesting series to discuss. 

most certainly I'm willing to discuss it at any time. Personally I find part 2 to be better simply because of how well it better crafts its narrative with imo much better and more compelling villains and themes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Icelerate said:

But Lucina is the most modestly dressing female lord while Lyn is the least so I'm not sure that's an equivalent comparison and this logic can be used against Lyn by comparing her to Camilla even though that's a pretty big stretch. 

I think the best comparison is Chrom. They are both attractive, friendly, and serve as your guide to the game and its world (as well as the series itself, for many people). And those factors combined make them very popular fictional crushes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Icelerate said:

But Lucina is the most modestly dressing female lord while Lyn is the least so I'm not sure that's an equivalent comparison and this logic can be used against Lyn by comparing her to Camilla even though that's a pretty big stretch. 

Please do not compare her to Camilla. If Lyn and Lucina is like comparing an ostrich that bird has legs for days to a chicken, then comparing Lyn to Camilla is like an ostrich and a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Lucina might be the most chaste design of the female lords but she's still an attractive anime girl which gives her appeal as many FE fans 'first waifu' (my first FE crush was Fiora actually). Of course, there is a lot more to like about Lyn and Lucina beyond how attractive they are, but let's not act like Lyn is a sex symbol first and a character second.

8 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Supports and character endings are a weak way to develop characters IMO for various reasons, especially for someone of Lyn's caliber. They can easily be missed. There is a cap of 5 supports per character. They are disjointed from the plot so the dialogue feels more arbitrary than sequential like base conversations, for example. 

This is where the conversation becomes more about the game's presentation than Lyn as a character. I agree that one can miss parts of Lyn's development if you don't read the support logs but they do exist for people who are interested in actually learning about the character. You still get a good understanding of Lyn through her story mode, and her personality and feelings on matters also appear in Eliwood/Hector mode. Lyn isn't the main character after her story mode but she does have a character.

7 hours ago, Rose482 said:

I agree with this, while Lyn might not be my favorite lord of all time, but I do hate when people act like.....she brought nothing to FE7, like without her the game wouldn't had been any better, if anything she made it a better game by being there, her story while short, is still charming in it's own way, and of course her presence in Eliwood/Hector story while not needed, but it still brought something good to the table.

Lyn has a lot of interactions with Hector which serve to develop both of their characters. Like, sure, cut all of Lyn's lines in the plot if you think they're unneeded, but the game will be lesser for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4-5-2019 at 4:58 AM, NekoKnight said:

Lucina might be the most chaste design of the female lords but she's still an attractive anime girl which gives her appeal as many FE fans 'first waifu'

It speaks pretty well about Lucina. She managed to win over so many people with her looks without even trying. Topping many waifu lists despite dressing like a dude is quite the accomplishhment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It speaks pretty well about Lucina. She managed to win over so many people with her looks without even trying. Topping many waifu lists despite dressing like a dude is quite the accomplishhment. 

Well I mean the tragic backstory along with angst also helps wins her points. Also Naoto is another character who dresses like a dude who is certainly a best girl contender to a lot of persona fans(myself included) so.... I dunno where I was going with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It speaks pretty well about Lucina. She managed to win over so many people with her looks without even trying. Topping many waifu lists despite dressing like a dude is quite the accomplishhment. 

Character popularity is based on a lot of things but visibility is usually one of the largest deciding factors. Lucina is featured prominently in a lot of promotional material as well as showing up in side games. Azura is a similarly popular character despite not having a particularly 'sexy' design because her face is all over the place. Both characters get the "what is this mysterious girl about" appeal as well. Even the Corrin's, despite getting a lot of flack for their story involvement, are quite popular.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 03/05/2019 at 10:58 PM, NekoKnight said:

Please do not compare her to Camilla. If Lyn and Lucina is like comparing an ostrich that bird has legs for days to a chicken, then comparing Lyn to Camilla is like an ostrich and a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Lucina might be the most chaste design of the female lords but she's still an attractive anime girl which gives her appeal as many FE fans 'first waifu' (my first FE crush was Fiora actually). Of course, there is a lot more to like about Lyn and Lucina beyond how attractive they are, but let's not act like Lyn is a sex symbol first and a character second.

I'm not comparing her to Camilla at all. I'm saying some people wrongly do because they think they're somehow on the same level. Similar to how you bring up Lucina even though she barely shows skin unlike Lyn. 

On 03/05/2019 at 10:58 PM, NekoKnight said:

This is where the conversation becomes more about the game's presentation than Lyn as a character. I agree that one can miss parts of Lyn's development if you don't read the support logs but they do exist for people who are interested in actually learning about the character. You still get a good understanding of Lyn through her story mode, and her personality and feelings on matters also appear in Eliwood/Hector mode. Lyn isn't the main character after her story mode but she does have a character.

Yeah she's a good character but is Lyn truly deserving of such a high popularity based on how well written she is? Personally I don't think she's that great. That's what I think is usually brought up in regards to Lyn's popularity being contentious because some people don't view her character as being that great that she overshadows all female lords barring Lucina in popularity which is why her being first lord in the first western game seems like a pretty big advantage she has. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Yeah she's a good character but is Lyn truly deserving of such a high popularity based on how well written she is? Personally I don't think she's that great. That's what I think is usually brought up in regards to Lyn's popularity being contentious because some people don't view her character as being that great that she overshadows all female lords barring Lucina in popularity which is why her being first lord in the first western game seems like a pretty big advantage she has. 

It's fine if you don't think she's that great, but as far as who "deserves" to be popular, that's subjective. I care about writing quality but maybe some other people only care about aesthetics. Like I said in a post above yours, visibility is going to be a major factor in a character's lasting popularity. It's not by coincidence that every FE Smash character, even Roy who doesn't have his game released in the west are extremely popular. Lucina keeps getting promoted, Lyn gets promoted, Azura, Eirika and Camilla get promoted (Micaiah and much of Tellius got ignored by the devs until just recently). Every time a new wave of fans gets their first taste of a character with a lot of screen time, BOOM, a popular character is born. 

The only thing I'd like to disprove, is that Lyn is only liked for shallow reasons. A lot of her popularity is from first game bias, but every player has one. For many players that was Awakening or Fates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, here goes:

-I legitimately hate using Pegasus knights, they always fall off too early and just generally get stat screwed. Only good Pegasus Knight I’ve ever had was Sumia. Even Echoes Palla and Catria, who people generally praise, never turned out, even when I tried to use them.

-Not sure how much of an unpopular opinion this is, but I think armour knights are generally (haha I’m funny, right? No?) the most fun class to use in the franchise. Not good, necessarily, but it’s fun to try and at least bring one of them to endgame.

-I enjoyed a lot of echoes’ maps. Don’t get me wrong, desert and swamp maps can go rot in a deep dark hole, but some of the maps on Alm’s route, like Rigel Falls, the three paladins map, and Rigel Castle, I found legitimately fun to play through. Even the plains maps I found kinda fun. They felt like a more realistic clash between two armies.

-I also like using Wil in FE7. This stems back to my first playthrough, where he was a legitimate god by the endgame, with capped strength, skill, and almost capped speed. I remember on Limstella’s map letting him ride all the ballistas and laughing like a maniac as he one rounded generals from 10 spaces away. Granted, this was Lyn Normal Mode, but Wil still holds a special place in my heart because of it. Nostalgia’s a funny thing.

-I prefer recruiting Karel to Harken. Nothing more to really be said. I don’t know how to explain it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8-5-2019 at 7:27 PM, NekoKnight said:

The only thing I'd like to disprove, is that Lyn is only liked for shallow reasons. A lot of her popularity is from first game bias, but every player has one. For many players that was Awakening or Fates.

I'd argue Archenea as a whole benefits quite a lot from first game bias in a way similar to Lyn. 

Marth even has the additional bonus of being people's first Fire Emblem character two times over. Marth is the first lord for many Japanese players but also the first Fire Emblem character most western players ever saw thanks to Smash. To some extend the later part goes for Roy as well. I don't believe he wouldn't have the modest fanbase he has now if now for Smash and the bias that comes from it.

Quote

-I enjoyed a lot of echoes’ maps. Don’t get me wrong, desert and swamp maps can go rot in a deep dark hole, but some of the maps on Alm’s route, like Rigel Falls, the three paladins map, and Rigel Castle, I found legitimately fun to play through. Even the plains maps I found kinda fun. They felt like a more realistic clash between two armies.

Echoes has a couple of diamonds in the rough. I for one really enjoyed Grieth's citadel. I felt having to press on the walls while sand hindered you and mages/archers shoot at you behind cover in the first half and eventually fighting the stupid Cantor's skeleton army indoors in the second half was a very enjoyable bit of variation for one chapter.

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My favourite song with lyrics is Heritors of Arcadia, no question. I think its themes are better expressed in writing, the performance is better and song gets to be a bit more dynamic.

Heroes related: I actually really like the Fallen Tiki and Corrin. Conceptually they're not as bad as all that.

Faye the yandere is just putting on airs in that Alm support, she really doesn't seem to fit it in practice. The yan part I mean.

The best capture in the series is Penta-Axe General.

No future Lissa in the Future Past was a missed opportunity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...