What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Icelerate]

23 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Icey, I thought we were friends, y u do dis?

I'm curious to hear why you think so. I think Lyn is actually one of the most unique lords in the series. Her story is divided into two phases, the first like a classical story where she gathers friends, retakes her kingdom and overthrows her wicked grand uncle (Gruncle Lundgren) and then the second where all of her values and identity as a mixed race person come into question. Eirika, from what I can recall is another naive female lord.

I think Eirika's story of having to confront her friend Lyon is more compelling than Lyn's conflict with Lundgren. Being naive doesn't mean being a bad character. Sigurd and Leif are naive but are praised by the fanbase as among the best lords in the series. 

[NekoKnight]

54 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

As an add on to this. So far I think the 3H DLC is the worst DLC we’ve gotten in any game that’s had it. Say what you will about awakening, fates, or SoV but at least were more than just cosmetics and some special item grinding here or there. The 3DS titles had DLC that added not only better ways to grind but also added story content and character interactions in the form of scramble DLCs, future past, heirs of fate, and the rise of the deliverance. And those added story maps are arguably better written than the base games themselves.

The most we’ve gotten out of three houses DLC was Jeritza and HE’S FREE?! Like come on IS you can do better than this. For $20 it really isn’t worth it

Agreed on the content in general. Even the outfits are underwhelming to me. Some bizarre basketball uniforms, slightly tweaked generic uniforms and...maids. Of all the cool ideas they could have picked, that's what they went with. Every Tales of game is running laps around TH in terms of fun alternate outfits.

It seems like the final wave with make or break the DLC pack. All I really want is more story content, especially CF's four missing chapters.

19 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I think Eirika's story of having to confront her friend Lyon is more compelling than Lyn's conflict with Lundgren. Being naive doesn't mean being a bad character. Sigurd and Leif are naive but are praised by the fanbase as among the best lords in the series. 

Isn't it extremely limiting to look at Lyn's story as being a personal conflict with Lundgren? He's just some dude antagonizing her. The real thrust of her story (as I've discussed earlier in this thread) is her quest to find peace and comfort with her family and her place in the world. Eirika is fine, and there are certainly options you can take with developing a naive character, but I'm not sure SS really made that a compelling story. In my opinion, Lyon carries the story in SS and the twins are only interesting by way of their connection to him.

[Benice]

44 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I think Eirika's story of having to confront her friend Lyon is more compelling than Lyn's conflict with Lundgren. Being naive doesn't mean being a bad character. Sigurd and Leif are naive but are praised by the fanbase as among the best lords in the series. 

Finally someone understands! Eirika has a good story arc, and I personally think that 

Spoiler

Her giving Renais' sacred stone to Lyon

is actually justified and not dumb. Eirika's bond with Lyon is emphasised throughout the story, and one of the stages of grief is denial, which we see when she does do the questionable thing stated above. Lyn isn't outstanding in Lyn mode, and she could have been better in Eliwood/Hector, although she gets overshadowed and essentially is a side character who can't die. I don't dislike Lyn per se, but she didn't fit into the story that well. In Eliwood mode she initially appears as a sort of love interest for both lords, then argues with Hector a bit throughout the rest. People complain about Eirika being shown up by alpha male Ephraim, but I think it's far more severe in Blazing than Sacred. Also, if you don't get enough Eirika from the first eight chapters, just play her route. (Also, Lyon is better than Nergal in almost every way, moxtly because the game doesn't mandate you to use a bard 70 times in four chapters to learn his backstory.)

 

if there ever is an SS remake, Lyon should be an enemy lord charcter, I think it'd reference his importance in the story well

Edited December 2, 2019 by Benice

[Interdimensional Observer]

18 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Eirika is fine, and there are certainly options you can take with developing a naive character, but I'm not sure SS really made that a compelling story. In my opinion, Lyon carries the story in SS and the twins are only interesting by way of their connection to him.

One way I heard the naïveté spun, not that I'm a firm believer in it, is in union with her brother's stance on his route towards Lyon.:

Eirika:

• Pre-Two Faces of Evil: "Lyon is my friend, I will save him alive."
• Post-TFoE: "Lyon cannot be saved, I will mercifully kill him.

Ephraim:

• Pre-Two Faces of Evil: "Lyon is dead, the Demon King waltzes with his body, I will destroy it!"
• Post-TFoE: "Lyon is alive, I will accept his choice to do evil and stop him."

 

Basically, they started as opposites. Then the confrontation with the stone smash happens and they have to accept the opposite reality. Well, not quite exactly, since Ephraim still has to kill Lyon, but he does it knowing he is killing his friend, not just the Demon King. 

Neither wanted to kill Lyon, in that they were united. But the solution to not doing it were different. Eirika wanted to avoid killing Lyon by saving him. Ephraim wrote Lyon off as dead, and you can't kill someone who is already dead, there would therefore be no moral quandary in destroying his body. 

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Not sure how unpopular this is but IS should never do multiple routes again. There hasn't been a single game in the series that didn't suffer for this decision, either from the game being shorter (SoV/SS) or the development resources/time being stretched too thin in order to do the campaign justice (Fates/TH). At best, I think they could manage a single narrative with minor route branching like BB.

Shadows of Valentia, or rather Gaiden, isn't that short considering its a NES game. Hell it probably has more maps than both Books of Mystery of the Emblem. It'll come out really short when compared to it's 3DS compatriots, but compared to its NES and SNES era games, it was of a pretty decent length. Certainly wouldn't have objected to them beefing it up with more than just Thabes as post game content though.

Regarding Sacred Stones, yeah, that's a dissapointingly short game. But I don't blame the multiple routes on that. I blame the really uncreative decision to split the routes per playthrough instead of having them combined in a single one. If they were combined then it would have been 29 story chapters, which is pretty standard in the series.

I do agree that splitting it based on three parallel plots didn't really help Fates or Three Houses though. It was a fun concept, but I'm ready for them to go back to a single, focused story. Splitting things based on protagonist I have no issue with though (I personally liked Radiant Dawn's really esoteric approach to availability).

Edited December 2, 2019 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Ottservia said:

As an add on to this. So far I think the 3H DLC is the worst DLC we’ve gotten in any game that’s had it. Say what you will about awakening, fates, or SoV but at least were more than just cosmetics and some special item grinding here or there. The 3DS titles had DLC that added not only better ways to grind but also added story content and character interactions in the form of scramble DLCs, future past, heirs of fate, and the rise of the deliverance. And those added story maps are arguably better written than the base games themselves.

The most we’ve gotten out of three houses DLC was Jeritza and HE’S FREE?! Like come on IS you can do better than this. For $20 it really isn’t worth it

Speaking of Fates, I really hate the fact that we got screwed out of DLC for no real reason, and I hope that never happens again.

8 hours ago, Benice said:

Finally someone understands! Eirika has a good story arc, and I personally think that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Her giving Renais' sacred stone to Lyon

is actually justified and not dumb. Eirika's bond with Lyon is emphasised throughout the story, and one of the stages of grief is denial, which we see when she does do the questionable thing stated above. Lyn isn't outstanding in Lyn mode, and she could have been better in Eliwood/Hector, although she gets overshadowed and essentially is a side character who can't die. I don't dislike Lyn per se, but she didn't fit into the story that well. In Eliwood mode she initially appears as a sort of love interest for both lords, then argues with Hector a bit throughout the rest. People complain about Eirika being shown up by alpha male Ephraim, but I think it's far more severe in Blazing than Sacred. Also, if you don't get enough Eirika from the first eight chapters, just play her route. (Also, Lyon is better than Nergal in almost every way, moxtly because the game doesn't mandate you to use a bard 70 times in four chapters to learn his backstory.)

 

if there ever is an SS remake, Lyon should be an enemy lord charcter, I think it'd reference his importance in the story well

I'd like a remake to actually make the Renais twins and Lyon into respectable characters, because like I said, I find it really hard to like them when they have less than half a brain between them (and the plot into something that can actually be praised, because I've played games with Excuse Plots that still ran rings around Sacred Stones in terms of story quality; admittedly, Sacred Stones being so short doesn't help its case. Nor does it that Eirika's side of the story ends up mostly being filler).

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Benice]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd like a remake to actually make the Renais twins and Lyon into respectable characters, because like I said, I find it really hard to like them when they have less than half a brain between them (and the plot into something that can actually be praised, because I've played games with Excuse Plots that still ran rings around Sacred Stones in terms of story quality; admittedly, Sacred Stones being so short doesn't help its case. Nor does it that Eirika's side of the story ends up mostly being filler).

 

Baisically all true. I also like games that have weird and weaker parts,  (my favourite game of all time is Skyward Sword. And yes, I have played OoT.) and I have played some truly awful games, (Brave: A warrior's tale comes to mind for interrupting the final boss fight with a random scavenger hunt...) so I guess my standarts are low. ANyways, Sacred had a lot of interesting parts, which compelled me to play it and enjoy it multiple times. (I did a full playthrough just to try promoting amelia to general without skirmishes.)

[DragonFlames]

5 hours ago, Benice said:

Baisically all true. I also like games that have weird and weaker parts,  (my favourite game of all time is Skyward Sword. And yes, I have played OoT.) and I have played some truly awful games, (Brave: A warrior's tale comes to mind for interrupting the final boss fight with a random scavenger hunt...) so I guess my standarts are low. ANyways, Sacred had a lot of interesting parts, which compelled me to play it and enjoy it multiple times. (I did a full playthrough just to try promoting amelia to general without skirmishes.)

*angry Dutch screeching in the distance*

Edited December 2, 2019 by DragonFlames

[Benice]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:41 PM, DragonFlames said:

*angry Dutch screeching in the distance*

I believe you mean this: [Deleted to make space]

Edited April 10, 2020 by Benice

[eclipse]

That's enough spam, you two.  Consider this an early Christmas gift (instead of warn points).

[UNLEASH IT]

I feel like I got more value for my money spending $60 on BR/CQ than on 3H.

[Flere210]

Imo they should still do routes because usually they help replaybility a lot and if the story get destroyed because of that i don't care much.

[Reality]

Consumable item healing can drastically speed up gameplay because all the games are balanced around fully staff-based healing - less relative in 3H because lol Psychic, but old games for sure - Healer's don't understand the movement stat master race.

[Ven Kyrria]

I think mine would have to be that I don't believe there is such a thing as bad units. Any unit can be made at least decent with enough effort. I know many don't agree, but that's what I believe. Also are there any unpopular opinions of three houses? I haven't come across any but I'd be interested to find them.

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Ven Kyrria said:

Also are there any unpopular opinions of three houses? I haven't come across any but I'd be interested to find them.

Three words: Lysithea. Is. Overrated.

On 12/2/2019 at 9:36 AM, Benice said:

Baisically all true. I also like games that have weird and weaker parts,  (my favourite game of all time is Skyward Sword. And yes, I have played OoT.) and I have played some truly awful games, (Brave: A warrior's tale comes to mind for interrupting the final boss fight with a random scavenger hunt...) so I guess my standarts are low. ANyways, Sacred had a lot of interesting parts, which compelled me to play it and enjoy it multiple times. (I did a full playthrough just to try promoting amelia to general without skirmishes.)

Bold: ...I have no words. Other than maybe this.

That said, I see General Amelia as a huge case of "the investment far outweighs the payoff", largely because two tiers of 4 move lance lock just is not worth suffering through to me. Well, that, and General is not a good class. In any instance, I'd see trying to promote Amelia to General without skirmishes as suffering, especially since she comes in about halfway through the game.

Rant aside...

The Heroes' Relics don't live up to their story reputation. Dishonourable mention to the Crusher, whose user is a mage, and has a low strength growth, meaning she's in a position where she is liable to die if you are unfortunate enough to miss..

Edited December 3, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The Heroes' Relics don't live up to their story reputation. Dishonourable mention to the Crusher, whose user is a mage, and has a low strength growth, meaning she's in a position where she is liable to die if you are unfortunate enough to miss..

Crusher uses magic as the attacking stat, so it suits her well. From this very site:

Hero’s Relic. Deals magic-based damage, enables Dust for Crest of Dominic

Anyways, I think it’s only fair to post an unpopular opinion of my own here: Three Houses has the makings for the best support system in the series. Had there been more time to make some of the C and B supports fit in better with the timeskip, it would have been even better.

Although, I suppose it was very good for Three Houses in particular. I can think of a situation where the Path of Radiance style would be superior (i.e. a more traditional FE).

[Shadow Mir]

21 minutes ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

Crusher uses magic as the attacking stat, so it suits her well. From this very site:

Hero’s Relic. Deals magic-based damage, enables Dust for Crest of Dominic

Not when it has a lousy 60 base hit and weighs her down to the point where outside of anything wearing heavy armor, she's likely to get doubled and one-rounded if she either doesn't kill whatever she's attacking or is unfortunate enough to miss.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not when it has a lousy 60 base hit and weighs her down to the point where outside of anything wearing heavy armor, she's likely to get doubled and one-rounded if she either doesn't kill whatever she's attacking or is unfortunate enough to miss.

I’m not going to say much, so I’ll just give you a couple of pointers:

1. There are plenty of things that can increase hit rates. Battalions (a lot of mage battalions increase accuracy, especially higher-level ones), Prowess skills, etc.

2. In practice, I see Dust as a viable option to do a lot of damage at once to finish an HP-tank unit. Which is a good amount of Maddening units, especially any enemy that wields an axe or gauntlets (Warriors, Fortress Knights, Great Knights, Grapplers, War Masters, Wyvern Lords and Riders). She does have magic, but not as a Wyvern Lord.

———

Another unpopular opinion is that Warrior Edelgard is good. Possibly better than Armored Lord/Emperor on Maddening. Wyvern Lord is better, but flying units are limited in terms of battalions in NG Maddening.

Biggest thing is that Warrior does not gimp Edelgard’s speed (it actually adds to it, albeit only by one for the class’s stat boost), which is not good unless you built Edelgard as an Armored unit.

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

I’m not going to say much, so I’ll just give you a couple of pointers:

1. There are plenty of things that can increase hit rates. Battalions (a lot of mage battalions increase accuracy, especially higher-level ones), Prowess skills, etc.

2. In practice, I see Dust as a viable option to do a lot of damage at once to finish an HP-tank unit. Which is a good amount of Maddening units, especially any enemy that wields an axe or gauntlets (Warriors, Fortress Knights, Great Knights, Grapplers, War Masters, Wyvern Lords and Riders). She does have magic, but not as a Wyvern Lord.

———

Another unpopular opinion is that Warrior Edelgard is good. Possibly better than Armored Lord/Emperor on Maddening. Wyvern Lord is better, but flying units are limited in terms of battalions in NG Maddening.

Biggest thing is that Warrior does not gimp Edelgard’s speed (it actually adds to it, albeit only by one for the class’s stat boost), which is not good unless you built Edelgard as an Armored unit.

Counterpoint: Axe Prowess is a wasted skill slot on Annette. And in practice, I see i Dust as Awesome But Impractical because the weapon it's tied to is also guilty of being such. What's more, if you make her a Wyvern Lord, which I think to be naught but a half-assed gimmick, it's even worse because flying battalions are limited.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Counterpoint: Axe Prowess is a wasted skill slot on Annette. And in practice, I see i Dust as Awesome But Impractical because the weapon it's tied to is also guilty of being such. What's more, if you make her a Wyvern Lord, which I think to be naught but a half-assed gimmick, it's even worse because flying battalions are limited.

I will admit, investing in Reason magic is her best option for offense. I feel Dark Knight is a suitable compromise for access to magic and the freedom of high movement.
Although, I would like to see what your ideal skill set for Annette is.

[Shadow Mir]

24 minutes ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

I will admit, investing in Reason magic is her best option for offense. I feel Dark Knight is a suitable compromise for access to magic and the freedom of high movement.
Although, I would like to see what your ideal skill set for Annette is.

Personally, I find Dark Knight to be a much better idea than Wyvern Lord, but it's still too much work for too little payoff. Anyway, my set would be Reason and Faith proficiency, Fiendish Blow, and some filler skills (dependent on what I did with her and what I mastered).

[DragonFlames]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Personally, I find Dark Knight to be a much better idea than Wyvern Lord, but it's still too much work for too little payoff. Anyway, my set would be Reason and Faith proficiency, Fiendish Blow, and some filler skills (dependent on what I did with her and what I mastered).

Add Bowbreaker for extra hit and avoid against bows (this helps a LOT later on) and HP+5 for some extra bulk.
That's what I did with pretty much everyone I made a Mage at one point (so, Lysithea, Dorothea, and Annette) and it worked out pretty well. On Lysithea and Dorothea, I even managed to get Magic+2 for good measure. Haven't gotten it on Annette yet, though.

You could also use the Black Magicfaire skill you get at rank S+ and/or the one that increases Reason range at S, if you manage to get that far (or simply use NG+), of course. 7
I'm just imagining it right now: Magic+2, Fiendish Blow, and double Black Magicfaire if you keep them a Warlock... That's 18 additional damage, if my math doesn't fail me. Though I don't know how high the Gremory class boost is to the Magic stat of a unit, so it might be more worth going Gremory and only having Black Magicfaire once in exchange.

4 hours ago, Ven Kyrria said:

Also are there any unpopular opinions of three houses? I haven't come across any but I'd be interested to find them.

• Annette and Flayn are actually really good units.
• Ferdinand and Ingrid, on the other hand, are not.
• As far as these two as units go: Dimitri > Claude
• I don't like the dubstep stuff. Even if it fits that particular area fairly well, I just don't care for that particular style of music.
• I'm still not sure if it's worth waiting for units to master the class they're currently in before promoting them, whether or not the class mastery skills are worth postponing the plain stat-boosts for. Sure, you can cheese it if you put the unit in question in a forest tile during auxiliary battles and have them be unarmed and attacked until the class is mastered (this is what I did on my Golden Deer playthrough just to see what each class' mastery skill is - didn't need to do it for Lysithea, because her personal is amazing like that), but on a normal playthrough without using these methods, I feel like it weighs more in favor of the stat boosts and other advantages the new class brings.
  And yes, I know the Knowledge Gem exists, but you only get that a fair bit into the game and your characters have already promoted at least twice by then, even on non-New Game+ runs.

Here are some of mine that are unpopular as far as I'm aware.

[DefyingFates]

On 12/2/2019 at 5:15 AM, Benice said:

Finally someone understands! Eirika has a good story arc, and I personally think that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Her giving Renais' sacred stone to Lyon

is actually justified and not dumb. Eirika's bond with Lyon is emphasised throughout the story, and one of the stages of grief is denial, which we see when she does do the questionable thing stated above. Lyn isn't outstanding in Lyn mode, and she could have been better in Eliwood/Hector, although she gets overshadowed and essentially is a side character who can't die. I don't dislike Lyn per se, but she didn't fit into the story that well. In Eliwood mode she initially appears as a sort of love interest for both lords, then argues with Hector a bit throughout the rest. People complain about Eirika being shown up by alpha male Ephraim, but I think it's far more severe in Blazing than Sacred. Also, if you don't get enough Eirika from the first eight chapters, just play her route. (Also, Lyon is better than Nergal in almost every way, moxtly because the game doesn't mandate you to use a bard 70 times in four chapters to learn his backstory.)

 

if there ever is an SS remake, Lyon should be an enemy lord charcter, I think it'd reference his importance in the story well

Absolutely agreed, and it does my heart good to see this, so thank you!

As for my own unpopular opinion: I think Sylvain is a sexist pig.

Let me preface this by saying some things in his defense: he clearly has a lot going for him (his being loyal to his friends and defending Dedue, being much smarter than he lets on with Annette) and has some mental issues (being tormented by his brother and having the responsibilities of his Crest thrown on him), but I don't think any of that justifies how he treats women. He says he doesn't trust them, so even if we assume he was courted once or twice by someone who only wanted his Crest and wasn't just being paranoid in his youth...well, I just don't see the link between "distrusts women" and "flirts with anything in a skirt".

[I put all of this in a spoiler because it wound up longer than I thought it would and don't want to upset his fans.]

Spoiler

 

My problems with him are only just beginning: he doesn't just flirt with the girls around him, he seduces them, treats them like dirt and, when anyone calls him out on his behaviour, plays the victim card and starts telling everyone how he was abused as a child or how those women were just trying to use him anyway. For example, he's called out for cheating TWICE in his C and B Supports with Byleth and, instead of owning up to it, he accuses the first woman of only being interested in him for his Crest and later complains that "she didn't care that I was seeing other women before she found out, so why does she care now?" before taking his anger out on Byleth about their Crest. And this is something reflected in all of his Supports that involve women. If he just didn't trust them, that'd be one thing, but the fact that he goes out of his way to hoodwink and ruin as many girls as possible, then claiming he's the victim and "oh, look at poor me and how horrible girls are" whenever someone puts him on the spot just makes me sick.

And before anyone says "he has depression, he isn't supposed to make sense"...that's not how mental illnesses work. People with mental illnesses - that aren't just psychopaths that resort to violence - have warped logic, but it's still a form of logic (for example, someone with OCD may keep checking their locks, but it's because they keep asking themselves "what if I didn't lock it properly?" or "what if my hands get infected if I don't wash them an extra time?" - they're trying to get peace of mind and this sort of safety checking is how they manage it). There's no reasoning that would take someone from "I don't trust women" to "I'm going to ruin as many women as possible and it'll be entirely their fault" that isn't just straight-up misogyny. Besides, there are others in 3H with (implied) mental illnesses who don't drag others down with them: Bernie stays cooped up, but she doesn't lock everyone else in their rooms at midnight; she just keeps herself away. Linhardt doesn't mock the people around him for paying attention in class; he just accepts that they have motivation where he doesn't and goes about his day. Again, Sylvain's the only one who gets off on ruining the lives of the people around him.

Heck, he's even worse than Lorenz! Lorenz is unapologetic and offensive, with an ego so massive he can't comprehend that no one likes him, but he at least has an end goal in mind (marry a noblewoman), respects women in his own way (as he tells Dorothea in their B Support) and even mellows out in his epilogues. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like him, but that's still better than Sylvain, who has no end goal (beyond the aforementioned "ruin as many lives as possible and blame everyone else for it") and continues treating women like dirt in his epilogues.

 

What confuses me is how popular he is. I know confidence and humour are popular, but I don't get how anyone can look past all of that other stuff (unless they somehow managed to skip all of the Supports and dialogue that touch on it)...I know there are people here who like him, so would like to hear their thoughts.

[Etrurian emperor]

26 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

What confuses me is how popular he is. I know confidence and humour are popular, but I don't get how anyone can look past all of that other stuff (unless they somehow managed to skip all of the Supports and dialogue that touch on it)...I know there are people here who like him, so would like to hear their thoughts.

I'm not the biggest Sylvain fan out there but I'd say I certainly like him a good deal. Now Sylvain is most definitely a scumbag towards woman but that's only one of his traits. He's got several good traits too such as the one you mention. They don't wash away the bad but there are noble traits to be found in Sylvain.

I don't think being a scumbag often hurts a character's popularity. Shinon consists almost exclusively of vile traits. He's bitter, incredibly petty, disloyal, selfish a racist and a drunk but people still really like him. Sometimes a bad person can be interesting to have on screen.

Sylvain isn't as cartoony of an asshole as Shinon but its clear he can be deliberately malicious when he wants to. What prevents me from holding it against him too much is that its interesting. Sylvain very deliberately strives to be the worst version of himself due to past trauma, a trauma that stems from the sort of world Fodlan is. I personally don't find it sympathetic but I do find it interesting to see. It also helps that the game doesn't shy away from the fact that Sylvain's behavior can be pretty reprehensible. Sometimes its played for laughs like with Manuela but even then the game still suggests its not cute and endearing but just pathetic.  

Edited December 3, 2019 by Etrurian emperor

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think being a scumbag often hurts a character's popularity. Shinon consists almost exclusively of vile traits. He's bitter, incredibly petty, disloyal, selfish a racist and a drunk but people still really like him. Sometimes a bad person can be interesting to have on screen.

Though Shinon is backed by good gameplay performance in RD, if he didn't have that, would he have his popularity?