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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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On 12/8/2019 at 8:18 AM, Ottservia said:

Corrin as a character fascinates me for a number of reasons. One reason is due to how polarizing their character is with a lot people. From what I’ve seen, you either love them or hate them with very little inbetween. What I find most interesting about that is that both sides have pretty solid reasons as to why they either like or hate them. I wouldn’t call Corrin a mary sue but I can certainly understand why someone would feel that way about them. On that same token, I can certainly see why someone would consider Corrin to be one of their favorite characters. Corrin is just an extremely interesting character to me cause the more I look at them, the more I learn about what exactly makes them so polarizing to people and it’s very interesting. 

I kinda like Corrin because he's such a different lord. Another thing I find interesting is how M!Corrin breaks pretty much all the stereotypes of what a male leader should be like but he's so disliked in the West that I don't see IS making another male Lord with similar characteristics as him in the future. I find it pretty unfortunate cause so many people call for 'diversity' in representation but I feel like outside of Corrin, all the lords have pretty similar characteristics (broadly speaking). M!Corrin had more traditionally 'feminine' personality traits that I find pretty refreshing for the series.

Also, the whole 'avatar worshipping' as a reason to hate Corrin/Fates is such a stupid argument now that TH is out. Literally every route, the characters endlessly go 'Oh professor! Because of you, I find comfort in this war and I know everything will be ok!!!'.  Call me insane but I'm not going to base my decision on which country to support in a war just because my professor invited me to tea twice and gave me some feathers. 

Honestly, I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion or not but the more I play TH, the less I like it (or rather, the more flaws I find). 

Edited by zuibangde

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17 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

I kinda like Corrin because he's such a different lord. Another thing I find interesting is how M!Corrin breaks pretty much all the stereotypes of what a male leader should be like but he's so disliked in the West that I don't see IS making another male Lord with similar characteristics as him in the future. I find it pretty unfortunate cause so many people call for 'diversity' in representation but I feel like outside of Corrin, all the lords have pretty similar characteristics (broadly speaking). M!Corrin had more traditionally 'feminine' personality traits that I find pretty refreshing for the series.

Also, the whole 'avatar worshipping' as a reason to hate Corrin/Fates is such a stupid argument now that TH is out. Literally every route, the characters endlessly go 'Oh professor! Because of you, I find comfort in this war and I know everything will be ok!!!'.  Call me insane but I'm not going to base my decision on which country to support in a war just because my professor invited me to tea twice and gave me some feathers. 

Honestly, I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion or not but the more I play TH, the less I like it (or rather, the more flaws I find). 

Fates made a bijillion Eurodollars, got over 25,000 votes in the first CYL poll and is represented by seven units in Heroes. I don't think Nintendo has any reason to think Corrin is unpopular (though they no doubt know female Corrin is more popular than male Corrin). A bunch of people on internet forums whinging is not representative of the fan base as a whole. The only thing that is is sales, and that's the only thing Nintendo or IS care about.

Outside of that, what 'feminine' personality traits do you read from Corrin? My biggest take away from the character is that they're rather naieve and a little bit childish due to their isolated upbringing. None of that seems distinctly feminine to me (even when the character is literally a woman).

Edited by Jotari

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15 hours ago, zuibangde said:

Also, the whole 'avatar worshipping' as a reason to hate Corrin/Fates is such a stupid argument now that TH is out. Literally every route, the characters endlessly go 'Oh professor! Because of you, I find comfort in this war and I know everything will be ok!!!'.  Call me insane but I'm not going to base my decision on which country to support in a war just because my professor invited me to tea twice and gave me some feathers. 

One game having avatar worship doesn't excuse Corrin of doing the thing, it just proves that IS can't make an avatar without fellating the player. I'm of the opinion that Robin was the best avatar as his praise is generally appropriate for his accomplishments.

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Outside of that, what 'feminine' personality traits do you read from Corrin? My biggest take away from the character is that they're rather naieve and a little bit childish due to their isolated upbringing. None of that seems distinctly feminine to me (even when the character is literally a woman).

Naivete is often a trait attached to heroines whether one finds that intrinsically feminine or not. In that category we have Celica and Eirika who carry this hard and even Micaiah has a slight taste of it when she allows Jerod to leave to bury his friend instead of capturing him. I'm not sure why, but people are more forgiving of ignorance and making mistakes when it's a woman, as that's part of their maturation, where a guy will just be labeled an idiot for the same things. Not me though, I consider both Corrins idiots.

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2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

One game having avatar worship doesn't excuse Corrin of doing the thing, it just proves that IS can't make an avatar without fellating the player. I'm of the opinion that Robin was the best avatar as his praise is generally appropriate for his accomplishments.

Naivete is often a trait attached to heroines whether one finds that intrinsically feminine or not. In that category we have Celica and Eirika who carry this hard and even Micaiah has a slight taste of it when she allows Jerod to leave to bury his friend instead of capturing him. I'm not sure why, but people are more forgiving of ignorance and making mistakes when it's a woman, as that's part of their maturation, where a guy will just be labeled an idiot for the same things. Not me though, I consider both Corrins idiots.

Fair enough. I've never considered naivete feminine in nature, but you back it up well enough with other examples in the series. Wouldn't consider Lyn, the female protagonist you didn't mention all that naive. Then again, I could see people considering Lyn more masculine than the other female protagonists with her more salt of the earth, no nonsense direct approach to life.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Fair enough. I've never considered naivete feminine in nature, but you back it up well enough with other examples in the series. Wouldn't consider Lyn, the female protagonist you didn't mention all that naive. Then again, I could see people considering Lyn more masculine than the other female protagonists with her more salt of the earth, no nonsense direct approach to life.

I did say often, not all. Lyn and Edelgard are definitely not naive, and if we're counting other avatars (I don't know about Kris tho) Robin and Byleth aren't naive either. So maybe I'm being unfair to even say that 3/8 female protagonists counts as often, but boy do those three stand out.

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On 12/11/2019 at 1:58 PM, NekoKnight said:

I did say often, not all. Lyn and Edelgard are definitely not naive, and if we're counting other avatars (I don't know about Kris tho) Robin and Byleth aren't naive either. So maybe I'm being unfair to even say that 3/8 female protagonists counts as often, but boy do those three stand out.

 

Edited by Jandex

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On 12/10/2019 at 5:39 PM, Jotari said:

Outside of that, what 'feminine' personality traits do you read from Corrin? My biggest take away from the character is that they're rather naieve and a little bit childish due to their isolated upbringing. None of that seems distinctly feminine to me (even when the character is literally a woman).

While not overly girly Corrin comes off as soft, naive, sensitive and in touch with his emotions. For better and certainly for worse too these are traits most people would likely attribute more to a female hero than a male one. 

As far as his design goes Corrin certainly doesn't seem very manly but the same can be said about every lord that takes more after Marth than after Hector. 

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I'd say mine consist of these. 

I love Archers. I think they're great units if not a little underpowered against melee enemies.

Youthful looking Manaketes are fine and practically a staple of the series by now. 

Pegasus Knights are viable units. 

Child Units are fun and add to the personal touch of a story.

S supports, while sometomes cheesy, are again, fun, and add to the story and interactivity of the game.

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On 12/11/2019 at 3:16 AM, NekoKnight said:

One game having avatar worship doesn't excuse Corrin of doing the thing, it just proves that IS can't make an avatar without fellating the player. I'm of the opinion that Robin was the best avatar as his praise is generally appropriate for his accomplishments.

Corrin’s ‘avatar worship’ is very weird to me cause in some instances, I personally don’t find it to be all that intrusive and in fact it does make sense. People trusting Corrin does make sense given the context in which such things are mentioned. Though I feel it goes too far when it comes to Ryouma’s jealosy and some skillbased qualities Corrin is said to have but seems a little unrealistic(though that’s more a gameplay/story segregation problem if nothing else). The fan service is probably the worst offender though like I don’t think I even need to mention how bad the CamillaxCorrin support is

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6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

While not overly girly Corrin comes off as soft, naive, sensitive and in touch with his emotions. For better and certainly for worse too these are traits most people would likely attribute more to a female hero than a male one. 

As far as his design goes Corrin certainly doesn't seem very manly but the same can be said about every lord that takes more after Marth than after Hector. 

Design aside, all those traits you mention feel like they'd appropriately apply to Marth too.

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23 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Corrin’s ‘avatar worship’ is very weird to me cause in some instances, I personally don’t find it to be all that intrusive and in fact it does make sense. People trusting Corrin does make sense given the context in which such things are mentioned. Though I feel it goes too far when it comes to Ryouma’s jealosy and some skillbased qualities Corrin is said to have but seems a little unrealistic(though that’s more a gameplay/story segregation problem if nothing else). The fan service is probably the worst offender though like I don’t think I even need to mention how bad the CamillaxCorrin support is

There are a few stand out cases for me.
1. The near death experience/brief visit to the afterlife at the ends of both Birthright and Conquest is pretty blatantly used to absolve Corrin of any wrong doing. You see Mikoto in the Conquest vision and not the Birthright vision, but why? Because when you play Birthright, it's already assumed that Mikoto is supportive of you, there is no crime to absolve. The Conquest version is particularly heinous because it has Takumi, a guy who has every reason to hate you say "I just wanted to be siblings, I never hated you, in fact, you'd be doing me a solid by destroying the hate-zombie that my body became, which isn't me, because I love you". All of conquest was dedicated to invalidating Takumi's anger but that was the cherry on the cake. Hinoka and Sakura are also totally cool with Corrin after the war despite his actions leading to the death of their brothers.

2. In Revelation, Corrin screws up in a big way by trusting the wrong person and all his siblings will say about it is, he did nothing wrong, he's perfect the way he is, and they'll clean up any messes me makes. They consider his purity more precious than his development as a person.

3. Also in Revelation, after the conclusion of the game, Corrin is made the leader of Valla even though Azura is the true successor. Not that it matters because all of the people of Valla are dead and the land will be sealed off. But that doesn't matter either, because Xander and Ryoma are going to MAKE him a new country and give him subjects because he deserves a country of his own. Corrin never even asked for all they're giving him but the game insists you are rewarded with a crown and country.

Edited by NekoKnight

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Never mind Anthony, what about Zola? When he betrays you in Birthright, he inexplicably asks Garon to spare you because apparently it's all the Hoshidans' fault. To quote:

Zola: "So...Your Majesty. I've followed through on my end of the deal...Can you please tell Lord Leo not to kill me after all? And, um, while you're at it...Would it inconvenience you terribly to pardon Lord/Lady Corrin? The Hoshidans have practically brainwashed him/her! This isn't his/her fault.

Corrin: What's the matter, Zola? Conscience bothering you?

Zola: Please, King Garon! I beg you!

I'm sorry, what? Did IS think we needed some sort of reassurance about betraying Nohr? Even an odious worm like Zola is fawning over you because heaven forbid anyone think that you're a bad person for betraying your country and/or family. Same goes for Takumi inexplicably forgiving you at the end of Conquest.

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10 hours ago, KMT4ever said:

Never mind Anthony, what about Zola? When he betrays you in Birthright, he inexplicably asks Garon to spare you because apparently it's all the Hoshidans' fault. To quote:

Zola: "So...Your Majesty. I've followed through on my end of the deal...Can you please tell Lord Leo not to kill me after all? And, um, while you're at it...Would it inconvenience you terribly to pardon Lord/Lady Corrin? The Hoshidans have practically brainwashed him/her! This isn't his/her fault.

Corrin: What's the matter, Zola? Conscience bothering you?

Zola: Please, King Garon! I beg you!

I'm sorry, what? Did IS think we needed some sort of reassurance about betraying Nohr? Even an odious worm like Zola is fawning over you because heaven forbid anyone think that you're a bad person for betraying your country and/or family. Same goes for Takumi inexplicably forgiving you at the end of Conquest.

To be somewhat fair to Zola, it can easily be interpreted as Zola wanting Corrin spared because Corrin spared him. 

Don't get me wrong, Corrin is a Gary Stu and every character except Takumi and Garon kiss the ground they walk on. 

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On 10/18/2019 at 3:11 AM, eclipse said:

Try not to cut yourself on that edge there.

How realistic do you think Claude's story is?  Personally. . .

  Reveal hidden contents

it's a nice sentiment, but I doubt it pans out the way he wants it to.  Racism's not something that ends overnight, if RL history is any indication.  And abolishing borders on top of that?  Uh, good luck with that.

 

I didn't type (snipe)... Did I?

 

Anyway. Ehhhh, it's just an opinion. If you think that's edgy then you haven't seen parts of reddit.

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On 12/17/2019 at 5:27 AM, KMT4ever said:

Never mind Anthony, what about Zola? When he betrays you in Birthright, he inexplicably asks Garon to spare you because apparently it's all the Hoshidans' fault. To quote:

I kinda liked that one. It made Zola more of an actual character. He is a cowardly worm but unlike the rest of Garon's generals there's still enough good in him to at least return goodwill that was shown to him. Corrin saved his life despite not having to do it and so he'll make at least  a little effort to spare Corrin's life even when he shouldn't have to. 

On 12/16/2019 at 8:48 AM, NekoKnight said:

Also in Revelation, after the conclusion of the game, Corrin is made the leader of Valla even though Azura is the true successor.

I think that one is sort of justified. I don't think Azura has any desire to become a ruler in her own right. Much of Azura's stoicism isn't actual stoicism but her being very introverted. As such being a public figure would likely make Azura deeply unhappy. She'd be much more comfortable being an adviser or power behind the throne.

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Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that one is sort of justified. I don't think Azura has any desire to become a ruler in her own right. Much of Azura's stoicism isn't actual stoicism but her being very introverted. As such being a public figure would likely make Azura deeply unhappy. She'd be much more comfortable being an adviser or power behind the throne.

She says as much in the last scenes in Revelation but it all sounds very convenient to me that legitimate successor to the throne passes it to you, the avatar, because they don't want it. Sillier still is that everyone in Valla is seemingly dead so Corrin could have been the janitor at Valla castle and still become king after Azura abdicates. He's the only other surviving Vallite as far as we can tell.

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In defense of Corrin's claim to the throne, he is the descended of the guy who put Azura's ancestor there in the first place. Son of god kind of trumps son of the last king (who incitentally was deposed by said god). Of course the obvious resolution to all this is to get your incest on and just have them marry each other.

Edited by Jotari

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

In defense of Corrin's claim to the throne, he is the descended of the guy who put Azura's ancestor there in the first place. Son of god kind of trumps son of the last king (who incitentally was deposed by said god). Of course the obvious resolution to all this is to get your incest on and just have them marry each other.

Is it even incest at this point after the artbook seemed to imply that Arete and Mikoto weren't sisters? Fates is kind of a mess.

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1 hour ago, Thane said:

Is it even incest at this point after the artbook seemed to imply that Arete and Mikoto weren't sisters? Fates is kind of a mess.

If it's truly a retcon that makes them distant cousins instead of first cousins... then it's not. The relation is just too distant to be considered incest.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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12 hours ago, Jotari said:

In defense of Corrin's claim to the throne, he is the descended of the guy who put Azura's ancestor there in the first place. Son of god kind of trumps son of the last king (who incitentally was deposed by said god). Of course the obvious resolution to all this is to get your incest on and just have them marry each other.

I mean, assuming the Awakening trio tell Corrin that's true, maybe. Otherwise there's no way anyone would know about that.

 

Alright, here's a big one:

Three Houses is my least favorite cast in FE history. I dislike it even more than ones that get literally no development at all, like FE1's cast.

And this is largely because the game aggressively, ridiculously shoves them in my face.

The support system in Three Houses is bloated and bland. You get so. God. Damned. Many. Support conversations. Without even trying, I found myself unlocking A ranks with every single combination of my army's mainstay units by the end of the game. And watching them all quickly became an active chore. I didn't feel like I was fighting to earn these supports (not at all helped by the fact that all support bonuses were turned into a bland hit and evade increase), and instead I felt like they were being shoved down my throat just as a natural result of playing the game. And as a result of getting so many, way, way more than I've ever read in one playthrough in any other game in Fire Emblem history, every single time I selected a support conversation to watch, my reaction was always the same: "...Wait, what was their last one about, again"?

In previous games, these were treats I pretty much always watched without exception, even on repeat viewings. They were a sign of progress in my own effort to cultivate and nurture bonds between my party members for story and gameplay, efforts which bore tangible and personalized bonuses, whether that was unlocking a new class in Fates or even just increasing the strength of affinity auras in 6-10. Here? By the end of my Golden Deer playthrough, I just skipped them. I'm not talking skipping the ones I'd already seen. I'm talking about skipping supports I was getting for the first time. I just didn't care. I didn't even remember what happened in the previous supports half the time, and had no desire to read what happened next. Every single time the game unlocked the next batch of support conversations I had maxed out with ease, I looked at that huge wall of conversations like a chore, not a treat. No other game in the entire series has managed to make me feel that way about support conversations. I'm almost impressed at how much this game makes me hate them.

And as a result, I just... don't care about most of these characters. And the worst thing is that it's not really any of their faults. The game just makes me not care. The support system has singlehandedly caused all of them to vastly overstay their welcome, to the point that I genuinely prefer the games where their personalities were left to my imagination and didn't expect me to sit through 200+ support conversations per playthrough.

Edited by Alastor15243

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24 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

I simply limited myself to the supports i had any interesting in watching. It's not like u can't find all of them on youtube later.

I mean, yes, that is an option, and I wound up doing that at the end, but "the two Lord of the Rings movies worth of support conversations you unlock every playthrough are more bearable if you skip the boring ones" isn't exactly an ironclad defense of the game's support system.

Also, that's not a joke. That really is how long they take. I did a rough estimate, rounding down every time, and I calculated that I unlocked a minimum of 6 and a half hours of support conversations on my average playthrough. And again, this was me lowballing and rounding down every time.

Number of characters in your party (lowballed at 9, assuming nobody is recruited) times that number minus one is the number of different combinations of characters your house has for supports, which is 72, which I rounded down to 70.

That times the number of conversations per pair (estimated at 3, considering some chains have 2 and some have 4) is 210, which I rounded down to 200.

That times how long a support conversation is (which I lowballed at 2 minutes on auto-play, which is generous considering Claude and Hilda's 3 conversation chain takes a total of roughly 8 minutes) is 400 minutes, or six hours and 40 minutes.

Edited by Alastor15243

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

The support system in Three Houses is bloated and bland. You get so. God. Damned. Many. Support conversations. Without even trying, I found myself unlocking A ranks with every single combination of my army's mainstay units by the end of the game. And watching them all quickly became an active chore

I think it's a better system, honestly. Before you'd have to do several playthroughs or actively grind in order to unlock all the supports but now they occur naturally from playing the game. It's a lot to read and I don't blame you for skipping them, but they are optional and you can save them for later if you prefer. I think easy access supports are a boon to the games considering characters can often give a bad impression of their character depth by what you get outside of supports. First impressions are a big deal. Why would I invest in a character if they seemed annoying or boring at a glance?

Heaven help me if I had to play a game as long (and frankly, tedious at times) as Three Houses several times just learn about a single group of characters.

 

Edited by NekoKnight

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1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

I think it's a better system, honestly. Before you'd have to do several playthroughs or actively grind in order to unlock all the supports but now they occur naturally from playing the game.

From a completionist's perspective? Sure, I suppose it's easier to get all of them. But it takes all of the magic out of each individual run. There's no nurturing relationships you actually care about between specific characters and watching the benefits of that specific friendship grow, because now support bonuses are uniform and generic and everyone's supported, and to grossly paraphrase Syndrome, "when everyone's supported... no one will be". Hell, there's barely any closure to any of these things. All of the A supports turn into this veritable orgy of non-committal flirting because nobody's allowed to marry anyone until Byleth gets first dibs, but everyone has to end on a note where it's believable they could be banging each other later but also believable that they won't be. The fact that I didn't even know who was going to end up with who until the credits rolled on my first playthrough really says it all about how much I was invested in any specific pairing here.

Contrast that with, say, Fates, where every single pairing you do has a complete story arc and ends with you getting a bunch of really cool, tangible in-game bonuses, from personalized pair up bonuses to an entire new class for each character. The closest I got to anything like that was combining Sylvain and Leonie for their compatible combat boosts, but they don't even have an A support.

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13 hours ago, Jotari said:

In defense of Corrin's claim to the throne, he is the descended of the guy who put Azura's ancestor there in the first place. Son of god kind of trumps son of the last king (who incitentally was deposed by said god). Of course the obvious resolution to all this is to get your incest on and just have them marry each other.

On the one hand, the game does seem to push those two together. On the other hand, it's gross for the obvious reason, and the fact that it's revealed that they're cousins is never brought up at all. Mikoto just mentions that Arete was her sister, and then nothing. 

Now that you mention it, Anankos did put Azura's ancestor on the throne and presumably gave him dragon blood so he and his descendants could use Dragon Veins. Given that it gets passed down, it presumably affects their DNA; perhaps even giving them a bit of Anankos' genes. If that's the case, and given that Corrin is the son of Anankos… there's both immediate and distant incest going on in a weird sense. 

9 hours ago, Thane said:

Is it even incest at this point after the artbook seemed to imply that Arete and Mikoto weren't sisters? Fates is kind of a mess.

Wait; what? Mikoto literally tells Corrin that she and Arete are sisters. Then again, she also tells you that the Hoshidan siblings are your blood siblings...

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Three Houses is my least favorite cast in FE history. I dislike it even more than ones that get literally no development at all, like FE1's cast.

Swap out Three Houses with Fates and/or Echoes, and I'd agree with you. But honestly, after those games, Three Houses' cast has felt like a breath of fresh air to me. Granted; I haven't played through the whole game yet (I'm on part 2 of Crimson Flower, and it's my first playthrough in total), so that could change. 

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