What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I wish FE would do this more. Outside of the odd bandit like Garret or Gonzales, I don't think any other FE besides Thracia goes into why so many people have resorted to banditry.

It's just a bunch of bad people doing bad things.

Which is weird, since pirates are more often presented in a decent light.

I believe the bandit leader who’s the boss of Brady’s paralogue actually has a couple lines where says something along the lines of “what did the gods do for me when I was a starving kid on the streets? Nuts to the gods, I have only my strength to rely on“ or something to that effect. It’s not a direct quote but he does say something like that.

 

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Sorry; bad communication on my part. Yeah; tasteful was not the word I was looking for, since, as you said, it only really applies to Tharja and Nowi. I guess a closer word to what I'm looking for would be... subtle, perhaps?

Again aside from Tharja’s Robin support and Nowi’s design, it is pretty subtle all things considered. I don’t see how it’s not.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Ottservia

[Slumber]

Also, how are you guys forgetting Aversa?

She's straight up wearing battle underwear, AND has a crush on her sibling. She might be the most fanservice-y thing in all of Fire Emblem. Even Camilla looks conservative next to her.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Slumber

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Also, how are you guys forgetting Aversa?

She's straight up wearing battle underwear, AND has a crush on her sibling. She might be the most fanservice-y thing in all of Fire Emblem. Even Camilla looks conservative next to her.

Yeah but with Aversa it makes sense for her archetype. She’s the sexily dangerous Fem fatelle and her design reflects that. It makes sense so I don’t really bother to bring it up much like Olivia’s design. She’s a dancer of course she’s gonna be scantily clad.

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah but with Aversa it makes sense for her archetype. She’s the sexily dangerous Fem fatelle and her design reflects that. It makes sense so I don’t really bother to bring it up much like Olivia’s design. She’s a dancer of course she’s gonna be scantily clad.

But... most femme fetales in Fire Emblem don't end up fawning over the protagonist, and eventually marrying them.

The protagonist being a player avatar who is also her adoptive sibling.

That's WAAAAAY beyond characters like Sonia and... um, really just Sonia.

Most femme fetales also wear more than just an open coat and a mini-skirt.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Slumber

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

But... most femme fetales in Fire Emblem don't end up fawning over the protagonist, and eventually marrying them.

The protagonist being a player avatar who is also her adoptive sibling.

That's WAAAAAY beyond characters like Sonia and... um, really just Sonia.

She doesn’t really fawn over Robin until the S-Support though iirc. Heroes is a dumb sure but in awakening she makes fun of Robin more than she does fawn over him. He actually gets angry at her because of the mocking she does

[Jingle Jangle]

5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Also, how are you guys forgetting Aversa?

She's straight up wearing battle underwear, AND has a crush on her sibling. She might be the most fanservice-y thing in all of Fire Emblem. Even Camilla looks conservative next to her.

I think Aversa gets slept on due to her playing a minor role in the story, every time she talks the dialogue box hides her chest funny enough, and spotpass characters canonization can be debated.

[Acacia Sgt]

On the subject of Aversa, is the "adoptive sibling" thing even important when the two of them never met each other until the game's events? Like, really, Robin was taken from Validar as a baby while he only "adopted" Aversa years later. It's only "siblings" by technicality.

[Slumber]

10 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

She doesn’t really fawn over Robin until the S-Support though iirc. Heroes is a dumb sure but in awakening she makes fun of Robin more than she does fawn over him. He actually gets angry at her because of the mocking she does

Right, but the S-support invalidates any teasing because she implies that the teasing is just how she shows her feelings towards him, because that's how she knows how to best communicate with him.

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

On the subject of Aversa, is the "adoptive sibling" thing even important when the two of them never met each other until the game's events? Like, really, Robin was taken from Validar as a baby while he only "adopted" Aversa years later. It's only "siblings" by technicality.

Yes, because every single support convo after the C support has Aversa mockingly calling him big brother.

And then it isn't until the S-support that she reminds Robin(And thus the player) that "We aren't actually related tee-hee".

EDIT: Correction, Robin mentions that they aren't actually related.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

12 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm not a fan of Chrom's family being descendants of Marth. A royal dynasty ruling for over three thousand years, with two thousand of them tracing back directly to one guy, is insane.

At least with Walhart, it's not made clear if he's a descendant of Alm and Celica.

Although I think you're supposed to take it at face value, you could pretend it isn't meant seriously, that it's only an unbacked or mostly thin assertion to claim authority. 

Tokugawa Ieyasu claimed to be a descendant from the Minamoto Clan, one of Japan's four great noble families. The Minamoto, Tachibanas, and Tairas being demoted royal lineages, and the Fujiwaras during the Heian period exerted a lot of power as ministers of the Emperor and frequently married their daughters to the Emperors. Thus, it's understandable that if even the genealogical connection was fake or indirect and strained by the passing of hundreds of years, that Ieyasu would want to invoke them as part of his public image.

Understanding this, again, you could pretend that more than a few coups and civil wars happened over that very long time, and that Chrom's family's is descendent from Marth through his greatx11 Emperor of Archanea's grandson's third daughter's second son's daughter.... and so forth in what becomes a very tenuous connection, if still technically real.

[Etrurian emperor]

21 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Also, how are you guys forgetting Aversa?

Probably because she's very forgettable. She's very much a side villain in a game where even the big villains feel like side villains. 

[Ottservia]

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Right, but the S-support invalidates any teasing because she implies that the teasing is just how she shows her feelings towards him, because that's how she knows how to best communicate with him.

Not really it never came off that way. It came off as more “I wanna be alone so fuck off” on her part at least to me. It’s been a while since I’ve read the support though so I could be wrong. The crux of the relationship here I believe is that Aversa feels like she doesn’t belong but Robin insists that she does and reaches out to her which results in a relationship.

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Not really it never came off that way. It came off as more “I wanna be alone so fuck off” on her part at least to me. It’s been a while since I’ve read the support though so I could be wrong. The crux of the relationship here I believe is that Aversa feels like she doesn’t belong but Robin insists that she does and reaches out to her which results in a relationship.

Spoiler

Aversa
I thought I could make myself useful. Is there a problem? Do the Shepherds think I would sabotage their weapons? I may not be their friend, but I'm certainly not their foe. Not anymore...

Robin
Of course we trust you...

Aversa
Well, all right. Maybe I misspoke. I feel I do have one friend. One person I feel close to.

Robin
Oh?

Aversa
It's kind of odd, because... Well, because it's you.

Robin
This better not be about that "Big Brother" thing again. You do realize we're not actually related in the slightest, right?

Aversa
I know, Robin. And in truth, I'm...glad. I'm not all sarcasm and snark, you know. I have emotions, too. And lately, I've found myself thinking about you. ...A lot.

Robin
Eh?

Aversa
I know this must sound mad, seeing how we fought each other for so long.

Robin
You're thinking about me...how?

Aversa
Gods, but you're dense! I want to be with you!

Robin
As... As allies?

Aversa
Dunderhead! I want to BE with you! I want to marry you!

Robin
But...why?

Aversa
Because there's no one else. Chrom believed in me, but not like you... You make me want to be a better person. You give me hope. And...you make me smile. Is that enough?

She's still teasing him as she's confessing to him.

Also she drops this line in her A support:

Spoiler

Aversa
Goodness! I feel the icy chill of a cold shoulder. I find that rather sad, Big Brother.

Robin
Just... Look, please don't call me that.

Aversa
Where's the harm? It's just the two of us. There are no eavesdroppers here. Besides, I thought you wanted to be friends! ...... You...did...want to be friends? *Sigh* I'm... All right. I'm sorry. I won't call you that anymore. I suppose it's good that someone in this camp even comes to see me.

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Slumber

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Yes, because every single support convo after the C support has Aversa mockingly calling him big brother.

And then it isn't until the S-support that she reminds Robin(And thus the player) that "We aren't actually related tee-hee".

So, the fact she's doing it in jest still has to account for something, no? If there's no indication she's actually being serious about it...

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although I think you're supposed to take it at face value, you could pretend it isn't meant seriously, that it's only an unbacked or mostly thin assertion to claim authority. 

Tokugawa Ieyasu claimed to be a descendant from the Minamoto Clan, one of Japan's four great noble families. The Minamoto, Tachibanas, and Tairas being demoted royal lineages, and the Fujiwaras during the Heian period exerted a lot of power as ministers of the Emperor and frequently married their daughters to the Emperors. Thus, it's understandable that if even the genealogical connection was fake or indirect and strained by the passing of hundreds of years, that Ieyasu would want to invoke them as part of his public image.

Understanding this, again, you could pretend that more than a few coups and civil wars happened over that very long time, and that Chrom's family's is descendent from Marth through his greatx11 Emperor of Archanea's grandson's third daughter's second son's daughter.... and so forth in what becomes a very tenuous connection, if still technically real.

To be fair, when you have things like brands and stuff, it's much easier to keep track of royal lineages. The Naga brand makes it clear there is a path from Chrom to the First Exalt, so that's at least one thousand years. Though it does gets sketchy when it comes from Marth to the First Exalt. By all accounts of how their world works, Anri should have a brand; but Marth isn't his direct descendant, so it's fine he himself does not. Yet the blood bond nonetheless applies to him, able to wield Falchion and all that. So, who knows. For all we know, they might eventually retcon him a brand too.

Anyway, regarding that particular opinion... personally, I'm fine with the idea of a non-interrupted three-thousand year long line of descent. Their world just operates different that it is possible. So long the probability ain't zero...

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

So, the fact she's doing it in jest still has to account for something, no? If there's no indication she's actually being serious about it...

It's a pretty big part of their support. Even if she's just teasing Robin, she's very often bringing up that they're (adoptive)siblings.

It's the Fire Emblem equivalent of "But step-brother..."

[Ottservia]

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

  Hide contents

Aversa
I thought I could make myself useful. Is there a problem? Do the Shepherds think I would sabotage their weapons? I may not be their friend, but I'm certainly not their foe. Not anymore...

Robin
Of course we trust you...

Aversa
Well, all right. Maybe I misspoke. I feel I do have one friend. One person I feel close to.

Robin
Oh?

Aversa
It's kind of odd, because... Well, because it's you.

Robin
This better not be about that "Big Brother" thing again. You do realize we're not actually related in the slightest, right?

Aversa
I know, Robin. And in truth, I'm...glad. I'm not all sarcasm and snark, you know. I have emotions, too. And lately, I've found myself thinking about you. ...A lot.

Robin
Eh?

Aversa
I know this must sound mad, seeing how we fought each other for so long.

Robin
You're thinking about me...how?

Aversa
Gods, but you're dense! I want to be with you!

Robin
As... As allies?

Aversa
Dunderhead! I want to BE with you! I want to marry you!

Robin
But...why?

Aversa
Because there's no one else. Chrom believed in me, but not like you... You make me want to be a better person. You give me hope. And...you make me smile. Is that enough?

She lays this out after Robin flat out tells her to drop dead.

She's still teasing him as she's confessing to him.

Mmm no, that’s not at all what’s happening there. I wouldn’t call it tsundere but it’s a similar situation. She’s basically implying that she loves him but he’s so dense that he doesn’t realize to which he calls him an idiot for. She’s not at all teasing him. In fact if you wanna stretch it, it can be read that he’s teasing her. At the end there she’s basically saying “You accepted me even though I was mean to you. You actively reached out to me and made me want to be better person so I want to be with you” which basically confirms what I said earlier.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Ottservia

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Mmm no, that’s not at all what’s happening there. I wouldn’t call it tsundere but it’s a similar situation. She’s basically implying that she loves him but he’s so dense that he doesn’t realize to which he calls him an idiot for. She’s not at all teasing him. In fact if you wanna stretch it, it can be read that he’s teasing her. At the end there she’s basically saying “You accepted me even though I was mean to you. You actively reached out to me and made me want to be better person so I want to be with you”

Read my edit.

She says this in her A support:

Spoiler

Aversa
Goodness! I feel the icy chill of a cold shoulder. I find that rather sad, Big Brother.

Robin
Just... Look, please don't call me that.

Aversa
Where's the harm? It's just the two of us. There are no eavesdroppers here. Besides, I thought you wanted to be friends! ...... You...did...want to be friends? *Sigh* I'm... All right. I'm sorry. I won't call you that anymore. I suppose it's good that someone in this camp even comes to see me.

It's pretty obvious that she's doing it because that's just how she knows how to communicate with Robin/she doesn't think the teasing bothers Robin as much as it does. She does seem to sincerely believe Robin wants to accept her by this point, and she's still pushing his buttons.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Slumber

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It's a pretty big part of their support. Even if she's just teasing Robin, she's very often bringing up that they're (adoptive)siblings.

It's the Fire Emblem equivalent of "But step-brother..."

Isn't the step-brother thing an "issue" because of the whole "they grew up together treating each other as siblings even if they aren't blood related"? Which wouldn't apply to Robin and Aversa anyway since, once again, they never even met during that period of time.

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Isn't the step-brother thing an "issue" because of the whole "they grew up together treating each other as siblings even if they aren't blood related"? Which wouldn't apply to Robin and Aversa anyway since, once again, they never even met during that period of time.

That doesn't stop the game from shoving the brother/sister angle in your face in almost every single one of their supports, though. And it clearly gets to Robin.

If it meant nothing, the supports would stop doing it and Robin would brush it off after the first time she does it.

[Ottservia]

8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Read my edit.

She says this in her A support:

  Reveal hidden contents

Aversa
Goodness! I feel the icy chill of a cold shoulder. I find that rather sad, Big Brother.

Robin
Just... Look, please don't call me that.

Aversa
Where's the harm? It's just the two of us. There are no eavesdroppers here. Besides, I thought you wanted to be friends! ...... You...did...want to be friends? *Sigh* I'm... All right. I'm sorry. I won't call you that anymore. I suppose it's good that someone in this camp even comes to see me.

It's pretty obvious that she's doing it because that's just how she knows how to communicate with Robin/she doesn't think the teasing bothers Robin as much as it does. She does seem to sincerely believe Robin wants to accept her by this point, and she's still pushing his buttons.

Fair but that doesn’t render the earlier mocking meaningless. Like it’s very clear she’s trying to get under his skin by that point and it works so she presses further. By this point it can be read as her just not being able to express herself properly. Also my earlier statement about the core of their relationship still stands cause she basically confirms it when she says: “I suppose it's good that someone in this camp even comes to see me”

I dunno man this feels like a stretch. I won’t deny she has “onii-chan” appeal but it’s not really that much of a focus in their romance

[Slumber]

6 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Fair but that doesn’t render the earlier mocking meaningless. Like it’s very clear she’s trying to get under his skin by that point and it works so she presses further. By this point it can be read as her just not being able to express herself properly. Also my earlier statement about the core of their relationship still stands cause she basically confirms it when she says: “I suppose it's good that someone in this camp even comes to see me”

I dunno man this feels like a stretch. I won’t deny she has “onii-chan” appeal but it’s not really that much of a focus in their romance

I'm not trying to say that Aversa being Robin's adoptive sibling is the big reason that she's clearly a fanservice character, but with Robin being a player avatar, I'm strongly convinced that the angle exists to make her more fanservice-y.

The Hoshidans aren't related to Corrin by blood OR by sharing a legal guardian, but I still think that angle gets pushed(And Corrin doesn't even know the Hoshidans for as long as Aversa knows of Robin) for fanservice. And the Hoshidans actually wear real clothes. With Aversa, she is the adoptive daughter of Robin's biological father.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Slumber

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm not trying to say that Aversa being Robin's adoptive sibling is the big reason that she's clearly a fanservice character, but with Robin being a player avatar, I'm strongly convinced that the angle exists to make her more fanservice-y.

The Hoshidans aren't related to Corrin by blood OR by sharing a legal guardian, but I still think that angle gets pushed(And Corrin doesn't even know the Hoshidans for as long as Aversa knows of Robin) for fanservice.

Ehh feels more like they’re leaning into a more tsundere, Mayadere, or even kuudere fetish here not so much an imouto one like with Elise or Sakura but that’s just my opinion. Unless of course the original Japanese text says otherwise to which the localization changed the context of cause that’s a possibility.

[Slumber]

11 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Ehh feels more like they’re leaning into a more tsundere, Mayadere, or even kuudere fetish here not so much an imouto one like with Elise or Sakura but that’s just my opinion. Unless of course the original Japanese text says otherwise to which the localization changed the context of cause that’s a possibility.

Okay, I'm definitely not trying to say Aversa is like Sakura or Elise. Especially since Aversa's a 30 year old woman. Just that the familial link gets used to add in another fetish.

Seeing a direct translation of the original Japanese would be interesting. It'd be weird if there was less of the "Big brother" mocking.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Slumber

[eclipse]

IMO it sounds like Aversa's doing it just to piss Robin off.

[Ottservia]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Okay, I'm definitely not trying to say Aversa is like Sakura or Elise. Especially since Aversa's a 30 year old woman. Just that the familial link gets used to add in another fetish.

I don’t think that fetish is there at all though and if they are it is extremely sublte. Trust me I’ve seen enough imouto, ecchi, and harem anime to recognize a lot of common otaku fetishes at a glance.

[Acacia Sgt]

Robin and Aversa's Japanese supports.

For anyone wanting to do a comparison.