What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Slumber]

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Three Houses is horribly overrated. My biggest problem with it is that it does not seem to care about its strategic gameplay as much as its dating sim minigames. The maps are the most barebones since Gaiden (OG Gaiden, not just Echoes), with barely any side objectives (no villages, for instance), only two main objectives throughout the entire game (and a good chunk of the "kill commander" maps make the "put commander right in front of the army covered by only a thin wall" gaffe), no NPCs or enemies to recruit by solving a puzzle, plenty of bullshit moments that'd make even Kaga blush (looking at you, exploding hill in Gronder Field), half of the maps consisting of big open fields without interesting terrain or roadblocks... it's just all-around bad.

I suggest you replay Awakening.

Because Awakening is definitely simpler in terms of map design and objectives. Three Houses has plenty of maps with obstacles, chokepoints, tiles in the middle of maps that hinder movement, a number of interactable elements on the maps, maps with multiple armies that you fight, and maps with multiple bosses. Awakening is much more sparring with the obstacles, which usually end up being walls that all funnel into a big open area, it doesn't usually utilize trees as terrain very often, there aren't many bridge or stair maps that become chokepoints, and there might be one paralogue with multiple bosses, but definitely no maps with multiple armies. Visual design is a different thing all together, which I think Awakening comes out stronger in. My biggest complaint about the Three Houses maps is how... normal they all are, even the one in a literal volcano. There's nothing crazy or cool about how the maps look. And even though Awakening's final chapter is just a flat, open map, fighting on the back of a dragon is definitely cooler than how the climaxes of Three Houses are presented(Though I'd say that the final maps of Three Houses are infinitely more complex). In terms of visual flair, Awakening has the upper hand. But in terms of map design, I think you'd need to make a pretty thorough argument for them also being more complex than Three House's maps.

Awakening is pure kill the boss/rout the enemy. Literally every single chapter, even the paralogues and xenologues. The paralogues in Three Houses at least give two "Survive" maps, and the Crest Beasts at least have to be approached in entirely different ways compared to normal units. And the paralogues frequently split your armies, which definitely require a different approach. Obviously could be waaaaaaay better(Not many games in the series really try to blend map objectives like Thracia 776, Radiant Dawn and Conquest do), no doubt about that.

Fates made pretty deliberate efforts to address the issue Awakening had, though I think many people would agree Fates goes too far in the other direction, especially in Revelation.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Slumber

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Honestly, it's insane to think that the first in the series - an NES/Famicom title - had over 50 named playable characters.

There was a late NES fighting game, Joy Mecha Fight, which was pretty impressive in that regard too.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's curious to imagine another road FE could've gone down, where later titles would approach and exceed 100 units per game, but without the level of characterization and distinction we've come to expect.

Isn't that Suikoden? I've never played one of those games before but as I understand it they have fairly large casts.

18 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I suggest you replay Awakening

"Something else is worse" =/= "This thing is good"

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

"Something else is worse" =/= "This thing is good"

I didn't say that. I was, however, replying in response to "Three Houses has the most barebones map design since OG Gaiden". The objective design bit was more of just a related tangent, since that was also part of that post.

6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Isn't that Suikoden? I've never played one of those games before but as I understand it they have fairly large casts.

And yes, Suikoden does this. The general idea is that the characters each represent one of the 108 Stars of Destiny.

Chrono Cross also has a stupid large cast that doesn't get much development.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Slumber

[Ottservia]

Y'know for as much as I love awakening, it's map design is not it's strongest aspect by a longshot. You'd think for what would've been the final game in the franchise they'd put a little more effort into making the maps a lot more fun and engaging but I guess they were still stuck in the "NES mindset" from remaking FEs 1 and 3.

[Acacia Sgt]

Regarding Suikoden, not all of the 108 are PC's. Well, I believe most still participate in the gameplay to some extent, in the wargame parts; but still...

If you want an actual comparison to make, then look no further than SRW. SRPG's that easily break the hundred PC's mark, some of them.

[eclipse]

On 2/5/2020 at 11:34 AM, Wonderie said:

I don't know if this will be considered unpopular opinion but, I miss Kozaki Yusuke as FE artist. 😭

In terms of technical things (like proportions, colors and whatnot), he did a good job.

I don't miss the crazy hairstyles on some of the girls, though.

[Deathcon]

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Not... any of them. There are a few that would probably make him hate the game even more.

 

4 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Are you reffering to Farghus walled city, Farghus walled city, or Farghus walled city?

I meant the side objectives. Saving villagers, beating the boss before a third party can kill too much, defend, etc. Hell even some of the main missions have side objectives like the oh so popular save the villagers, flip a switch, find the hiding snakes, defend, etc.

[Ottservia]

23 minutes ago, eclipse said:

In terms of technical things (like proportions, colors and whatnot), he did a good job.

I don't miss the crazy hairstyles on some of the girls, though.

Ehh I’ve seen crazier hairstyles. Fates definitely pushed it some but for the most part it was pretty normal by most stylized anime standards anyway.

I miss Kozaki though. Still probably the best character designer the series has seen. So many of his characters exude so much personality from their designs and I love it.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Ottservia

[Saint Rubenio]

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Professor, I must say that I was very interested by your lecture and I thank you for your time.

It was nothing. I do love a good rant.

Now, if you've any names to call me, bring 'em on. I'll take anything you have.

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I actually don't disagree with you. Personal experience leads me to agree with many of your points. The only things it can't help me with are the Last Promise itself (which I might rectify one day) and Three Houses. I didn't get it and I tend to trust my gut when it tells me not to buy things, and it's always nice to feel like I made a good decision. Part of the fun of Fire Emblem is the units you get later in the game and I overall was a bit cautious of the "class" system introduced in Three Houses and its results.

Don't disa-- G-Gaaah...! How could you... say something so awful?! How can I be a filthy elitist contrarian, if somebody agrees with me?!

Jokes aside, that's fair enough. I would recommend trying out TLP, for curiousity's sake if nothing else. For better or worse, it's the most iconic romhack out there. It's a great piece of FE history. And it's free, unlike Three Houses!

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I look forward to playing Berwick Saga at your recommendation, it seems like a most fascinating game.

Oh yeah, definitely play Berwick Saga. It's one of the most unique strategy games I've ever played. If I had to describe it, it's something like "Fire Emblem meets Tactics Ogre except it's hexagonal and it's more skill based than stat based" (character skills, not the player's own skills). Obviously there's more to it, though.

On a more personal note, it's also the best strategy game I've ever played, period. So yeah.

If you do get around to playing it, I would advise that you wait for a bit. Very very soon, the first "final" version of the translation will be released. It'll be a good time to get started. Believe you me, Berwick withdrawal has been a bitch to deal with this whole year since I first discovered the game.

8 hours ago, Deathcon said:

I suggest you play any of the paralogues.

As a matter of fact, I played every paralogue I could get my hands on. They're definitely the highlights of the game, in terms of map design, but they're still not what I'd call groundbreaking. Some of them are kinda like FE12 gaidens on a greater scale (as in, they're more like puzzles), while others are just normal maps with a slightly different objective for flavor. The one where you have to protect Rhea in the fog was my favourite, but none of them are anything too incredible, and they do not change the fact that the main campaigns are, for the most part, pretty bad. At least the ones I played.

8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Not... any of them. There are a few that would probably make him hate the game even more.

To be fair, Three Houses itself is a game I merely dislike. The only reason I "hate" it is that I would love to love it as much as everyone else. I see everybody talking about it like it's some masterpiece, the greatest game in the series! And it frustrates me, because all I see is a rushed, unpolished game that has some great ideas, but is unable to carry them out for the most part.

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

I suggest you replay Awakening.

Ahah... this argument. See, I think this is exactly why I have so much of a problem with Three Houses: I never played Awakening or Fates. Three Houses was my first (and by the look of it, last) brush with modern-era FE. Thus, the "Better Than Fates!™" sentence everybody loves to parrot constantly has no effect on me. All I have to compare Three Houses to are the old FE games that I know and love. Well, and KagaSaga - but that's an unfair comparison, at least as far as Berwick Saga goes.

Frankly, at risk of sounding like a filthy elitist, I think modern FE is just not for me. I love FE for its battles, its gameplay - the fact that I like The Last Promise should tell you how little I care for the stories, at the end of the day. A good story is a great bonus, but a good gameplay is a necessity. Three Houses's story is one of the best in FE, without a doubt. It's not flawless (Claude is useless, Byleth's a terrible avatar in spite of being "Better Than Fates!™"), but it does a lot of amazing stuff. But that hardly matters when the gameplay's as much of a mess as it is.

That said, I will admit I probably should've specified "the worst map design in FE since OG Gaiden (out of the games that I have played)". I cannot claim to know how bad it is in Fatesawakening. I will not take that much back, though - out of all the FEs I've played, Three Houses's map design is only not the worst because I've played Echoes. And I played Echoes after Three Houses, so you can imagine the disappointment I felt at the time, when I saw all the blatant "use up divine pulse!" moments. Like this one. It mystifies me that nobody ever talks about stuff like this.

About the main objectives, I do not think they're as important as side objectives, to be honest. Unless it's something that truly changes how you play (like Thracia's escape maps and defense maps), I'm fine with a seize-a-palooza. The problem with Three Houses is that, on top of being mostly "rout" and "kill commander", it has very little else. Take FE12, for instance - it's "seize" all the way through, but the maps have enough in the way of treasure, thieves to chase, characters to recruit, time limits like Astram and Hardin... that they're still engaging.

Not that FE12 is perfectly designed, either. Ambush spawns are dick. Hear that, Maddening mode? Dick.

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To be fair, Three Houses itself is a game I merely dislike. The only reason I "hate" it is that I would love to love it as much as everyone else. I see everybody talking about it like it's some masterpiece, the greatest game in the series! And it frustrates me, because all I see is a rushed, unpolished game that has some great ideas, but is unable to carry them out for the most part.

We might be in the same boat to a degree. I pretty much despise this game, but I can't say for sure how much of that is because all of the stuff I hate about it is being received so warmly, giving me a sense of, to use a really overdramatic prequel meme, "so this is how everything I love about Fire Emblem dies: with thunderous applause."

[Flere210]

I feel that 3H, like Echoes, receive more praise for what it is not rather than for what it is.

It does not matter how many flaws it has, as long as they are not the same flaws as Fates and Awakening, that certain parts of the fanbase consider the Antichrist. 

I feel it played too safe for most of the maps, that are much more like Echoes than like Conquest. 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

For the "Three Houses is better than Fates" discussion, that one is mostly carried by two things (as fas I can tell anyway):

1.  But story is more important than gameplay, therefore TH > Fates (which if I cared for Story I might actually agree)
2.  Birthright is too easy, Revelations is full of gimmicks and Conquest has too many ninjas, its lategame is unfair and also too many gimmicky Maps.

Quote

[...] so you can imagine the disappointment I felt at the time, when I saw all the blatant "use up divine pulse!" moments. Like this one. It mystifies me that nobody ever talks about stuff like this.

I do not mean to sound like an asshole/elitist nor do I mean to attack you, but the video you posted is not a Divine Pulse moment, that`s a "Player does not check enemy stats" moment as far as i can see. 

And yes, Three Houses is overvalued (is this even a word?) for its story, when the critical aspect of the game - its strategic gameplay - is very boring.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Imuabicus

[Saint Rubenio]

16 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

I do not mean to sound like an asshole/elitist nor do I mean to attack you, but the video you posted is not a Divine Pulse moment, that`s a "Player does not check enemy stats" moment as far as i can see. 

Ergh... I know the video's quality isn't the best, but I thought it was pretty clear that the boss does not have movement at first. Pay attention to the "this dude will get attacked by these dudes" lines (I don't know what to call them); while I'm moving Dimitri, only the Cavalier has a line leading to him. Also, in the first two seconds of the video, I'm highlighting the boss - she's stationary. Only when I had Dimitri wait did the boss magically gain enough movement to reach him. You can even see the purple danger area growing larger as soon as Dimitri waits.

How is that my fault? How is that not a Divine Pulse moment? Dimitri could take it, but if I had moved a squishy healer there, thinking it was safe (aside from the Cavalier), I would've been in for a nasty surprise. Heck, she could reach pretty far. If I had some healer supporting him from behind, they might've been in trouble even if I didn't make them advance. I checked her skills, and it doesn't seem like any one of them is supposed to conceal her movement - unless Stealth has a hidden property that only works on this particular boss for no reason. At no point is it hinted at in the dialogue that this may be a thing. So I ask again: what part of this is on me?

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

11 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ergh... I know the video's quality isn't the best, but I thought it was pretty clear that the boss does not have movement at first. Pay attention to the "this dude will get attacked by these dudes" lines (I don't know what to call them); while I'm moving Dimitri, only the Cavalier has a line leading to him. Also, in the first two seconds of the video, I'm highlighting the boss - she's stationary. Only when I had Dimitri wait did the boss magically gain enough movement to reach him. You can even see the purple danger area growing larger as soon as Dimitri waits.

How is that my fault? How is that not a Divine Pulse moment? Dimitri could take it, but if I had moved a squishy healer there, thinking it was safe (aside from the Cavalier), I would've been in for a nasty surprise. Heck, she could reach pretty far. If I had some healer supporting him from behind, they might've been in trouble even if I didn't make them advance. I checked her skills, and it doesn't seem like any one of them is supposed to conceal her movement - unless Stealth has a hidden property that only works on this particular boss for no reason. At no point is it hinted at in the dialogue that this may be a thing. So I ask again: what part of this is on me?

An apology is in order then! Sorry for the premature post.

At long last, trusting nobody will pay off.

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

An apology is in order then! Sorry for the premature post.

No worries, it was an honest mistake.

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

At long last, trusting nobody will pay off.

Blazer did it first

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

so this is how everything I love about Fire Emblem dies: with thunderous applause.

Prequel memes? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

Those aside, yeah, this is basically how I feel. I'm honestly considering never getting a new FE again (at the very least not at launch), because after Three Houses's overwhelming popularity, they're going to be making more of it and less of what came before. I'm happy for the myriad of fans the game has, but as for me, I think I'll stick with Berwick Saga, thank you very much.

[James Marshall]

Is my opinion that Nino's that is far too Jaffar and slightly too good for Erk 1?

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Y'know for as much as I love awakening, it's map design is not it's strongest aspect by a longshot. You'd think for what would've been the final game in the franchise they'd put a little more effort into making the maps a lot more fun and engaging but I guess they were still stuck in the "NES mindset" from remaking FEs 1 and 3.

FE11 and 12 don't have exactly the same problems as Awakening though. They share same-turn reinforcements on higher difficulties when the lowers don't, and FE12 does have a big jump from Hard to Maniac, albeit not as big as 13 Hard to 13 Lunatic. Yet, while FE12 can still be easy on Hard, the "snowball" effect eventually get stopped on Hard b/c lower stat caps and much inferior dodging. The absence of Pair Up makes FE12's low Mt Javelins and Hand Axes balanced too. Meanwhile, FE11 is nearly devoid of an Enemy Phase orientation, which barring Galeforce grind optimization, ends up being a defining trait of FE13.

Yet, it is the case with 11 and 12 that IS had to make very few new maps. They did have to adjust some old ones, on that front, they did little to improve FE11's, but put notable effort into new enemy placement on a bunch of FE12 maps. Their map designing skill might have rusted in this time.

[Harvey]

The issue with Awakening is that it played safe and honestly, I am having a hard time replaying it after playing even the later instalments simply because they improved on Awakening. But, Awakening is amazing for so many other things that it tried to do such as adding new characters through marriage, a very likable cast and amazing soundtrack.

For my unpopular opinion, a series called Fire Emblem and has nothing to do with it is odd. Infact, what does Fire Emblem mean anyways? For an emblem that is to be connected between humans and dragons, it sure doesn't do that for the most part.

 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

My unpopular opinions:

FE Fates Revelations is the single greatest Fire Emblem Sandbox to have ever been bestowed unto us.

FE Fates Conquest maps are NOT gimmicky.

Please no more central hubs like Three Houses. Its intrusive to a degree I lack the words to describe.

Skills should be used on enemies to define their EP/PP potential or rather roles. That Berserker with Death/Certain/Darting Blow and a Killer Axe/Tomahawk/Hammer? Yeah probably not a good idea to let him hit you on EP.

On that note: more passive skills, especially two-edged ones like Quixotic or Life and Death. Procc-skills are whack (does not include pre FE 10 procc skills, as i don´t know them).

[Jotari]

47 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The issue with Awakening is that it played safe and honestly, I am having a hard time replaying it after playing even the later instalments simply because they improved on Awakening. But, Awakening is amazing for so many other things that it tried to do such as adding new characters through marriage, a very likable cast and amazing soundtrack.

For my unpopular opinion, a series called Fire Emblem and has nothing to do with it is odd. Infact, what does Fire Emblem mean anyways? For an emblem that is to be connected between humans and dragons, it sure doesn't do that for the most part.

 

It was just an irrelevant lock pick in the first game! Very little pomp and circumstance and basically no functional role in the plot. Bloody weird. It'd be like if the Zelda series was named after the Red Candle.

[Acacia Sgt]

Unless we assume the sequel wasn't planned by then, you can't really dismiss that it wasn't much big deal in the first game. They were just saving up its real significance and history for later.

[Flere210]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

FE Fates Conquest maps are NOT gimmicky.

I feel for some people gimmicky means "everything that cannot be overcome by throwing overlevelled paladins at it".

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

The issue with Awakening is that it played safe and honestly, I am having a hard time replaying it after playing even the later instalments simply because they improved on Awakening. But, Awakening is amazing for so many other things that it tried to do such as adding new characters through marriage, a very likable cast and amazing soundtrack.

To be fair to Awakening, they thought it was going to be the last FE game, so they tried to make a culmination of what had come before; a sort-of Fire Emblem Greatest Hits.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

For my unpopular opinion, a series called Fire Emblem and has nothing to do with it is odd. Infact, what does Fire Emblem mean anyways? For an emblem that is to be connected between humans and dragons, it sure doesn't do that for the most part.

Yeah; its significance to the game varies with each game. The original Fire Emblem wasn't hugely important in the first game, then it was very important in the third game and fairly important in Awakening. The Medallion was very important in the Tellius games, but it hasn't been very relevant in recent games. In Fates, it was the signature sword; cool, but not relevant outside of helping in the final boss fights.

[Eltosian Kadath]

12 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I love FE for its battles, its gameplay - the fact that I like The Last Promise should tell you how little I care for the stories, at the end of the day.

You should give Conquest a try then as it has some of the best gameplay in the series. The story may have had ISSUES but the gameplay was stellar, especially on hard and lunatic.

[Etrurian emperor]

10 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I feel that 3H, like Echoes, receive more praise for what it is not rather than for what it is.

It does not matter how many flaws it has, as long as they are not the same flaws as Fates and Awakening, that certain parts of the fanbase consider the Antichrist. 

To be fair that isn't wholly unreasonable. Fates had its merits but it had several weak links that really needed to be addressed such as world building, story, tone and villains. If a game shows improvement in precisely those areas where Fates dropped the ball then that's still worthy of praise. 

Though what strikes me when it comes to Three Houses isn't how different it is than Fates, but how similar it is. Fates had an incredibly flawed way of handling its villains, namely that they barely put any effort in them and hoped the drama between the two families would make up for the garbage villains. Three Houses pretty much replicated this flawed approach. The Slitherers are hardly any better then team Garon and its up to the conflict between the houses to make up for the uninteresting villains. I find the drama of the houses more convincing than that of the feuding families but ultimately its the same bad approach to handling villains.  When it comes to villains Three Houses improved very little compared to Fates. 

The story of Three Houses isn't as consistently bad as the story of Fates but at times its badly written in a very similar way. The second battle of Grondor where the three houses fight for very weird reasons just because the plot wants it to happen fits in right with the Fates era writing, as does the Flame emperor chatting with Thales right at Rhea's doorstep.