What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

 

- While mechanically sound for gaining support points, the Private Quarters in Fates and Tea Time in Three Houses share the same problem of not really adding all that much to the characters themselves.

.

My cost benefit analysis determined that Private Quarters and Tea Time literally aren't worth the time it takes to do them. It's free stuff, but the fact that it takes like a minutes and half makes that free stuff not worth it. Only time I'd consider tea time is when I absolutely have to grind a Charm level to recruit another character before the time skip.

[Etrurian emperor]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

He's never actually meaning to be rude or judgemental except when he wants to tell someone who's in the wrong the reason a "the reason you suck" speech

I'd say he's pretty intentially judgemental about the nobility. Even long after he made many Beorc noble friends who are nothing like the Begnion Senators he still has a tendency to go ''lol nobles suck'' a lot. Racism is a big no-no, but classism is fine. 

You're right about his enemies. Most are nitwits who deserve the call out but traditional friendlier lords like Marth or Eliwood likely wouldn't have done so. 

[vanguard333]

9 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Never thought I’d see a realistic portrayal of a little sister in an anime-esque game but here we are.

What about Mist?

Quote

Ike: “Mist…You did well, Sis. You must have been frightened.”

Mist: “Uh-huh…Uh-unh! I never stopped believing. I knew that you and the others would come and rescue us. I knew you’d come! So, I was fine!”

Ike: “Really? That’s an improvement on your usual sobbing and nose-running.”

Mist: “You jerk! I…My nose does not run!”

Quote

Titania Everything I've learned comes from books. Goldoa itself no longer has any contact with the outside world. Seeing them now, it's like a dream...

Ike So this is good fortune, is that what you're saying?

Mist She's saying we got lucky! For once, your recklessness actually got us OUT of trouble!

Ike What's that supposed to mean?

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd say he's pretty intentially judgemental about the nobility. Even long after he made many Beorc noble friends who are nothing like the Begnion Senators he still has a tendency to go ''lol nobles suck'' a lot. Racism is a big no-no, but classism is fine. 

You're right about his enemies. Most are nitwits who deserve the call out but traditional friendlier lords like Marth or Eliwood likely wouldn't have done so. 

He is a bit judgemental about the nobility system, and even then, his judgement largely amounts to, "That doesn't make any sense". But I wouldn't necessarily say he's judgemental about nobles. Remember: Sanaki and the Begnion Senate very much had Ike's "the reason you suck" speech coming. I've been looking back over part of the Path of Radiance script, and yeah; he only really makes judgement either on the system for making little sense and prioritizing personal gain, or passing judgement on a noble after already seeing them say or do something bad. He seems more anti-classism than anything else from what I can tell. 

 

9 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Oh, cool, I see! That's interesting to know. I can definitely end up rambling when I'm talking about a topic I'm really really into, but otherwise... Yeah, I'm generally terrible at explaining things.

I agree Chrom is rather bland and tries too hard to be a mix of Marth and Ike. I think his outfit is kind of dumb too, but Awakening in general has bad outfit designs if you ask me.

Cool. Interesting to know. 

Yeah; he does try a bit too hard to be a mix of them. It's probably another result of Awakening trying to be a "Fire Emblem Greatest Hits" for better and for worse. And yes; Awakening has some really bad outfit designs. A few are fine, but a lot of them, especially the armour, is really bad. Hero, Paladin, Great Knight, Knight/General, they look terrible. It says something that the outfit I like the most is the one for enemy soldiers.

[Saint Rubenio]

On 2/9/2020 at 2:14 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

"Saint" Rubenio? What are you, a Catholic?!

Quite the contrary. There's a bit of a long story behind the name, and it's not too thrilling either.

On 2/9/2020 at 2:14 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Also FE6 because I must take all opportunities to discuss my fondness for FE6. Maps like Chapter 11 (Echidna) and Chapter 16 also showcase how interesting side objectives can massively improve a map and make the same win condition feel very different compared to other instances of it.

Yes, I agree. In spite of all its flaws, the wonderfully engaging maps FE6 has are what grant it a soft spot in my heart. To this day, Chapter Douglas-- sorry, Chapter 16 is still one of my favourites in the series. Just because of how much thought needs to be put into it.

On 2/9/2020 at 2:14 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Fire Emblem has become the very thing it swore to destroy.

What about the monthly subscription attack on the F2Ps?

14 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Also, nice profile pic. Berkick Saga LP soon?

Thanks. It's really nothing too amazing, I just spliced together some Berwick portraits.

As for the LP, I can only hope so, but it's up to Aethin, as usual.

14 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

While Fire Emblems stories range from bad to okay to good, the dialogue is an underappreciated aspect of the writing that's often glossed over. In several ways, it's just as important as the plot itself.

The amount of people who write off FE11's story as "barebones" without giving its glorious dialogue a chance is downright tragic. Yes, the plot's basically "good blue guys kill ugly red men until they kill big brown dragon and win", but there's so much personality to the dialogue.

 

Unpopular opinion of the day: DSFE has great visuals. It's semi-realistic, serious, almost bleak-looking portraits fit the simpler designs and the whole "war drama" premise quite well, and they make for a unique and memorable artstyle. FE11's characters are a wee bit too pale, but this issue was fixed in FE12. The maps and HUD (mostly FE11's in this case) are lowkey gorgeous. Battle animations are the only part that I'd say warrants the hate it gets. They're... less than stellar. But at least you can skip them entirely if you want, unlike Tellius's janky, slow-as-molasses animations which are present even with the "animations off" setting.

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

What about Mist?

Ehh Mist doesn’t patronize Ike as much as Lissa does Chrom from my understanding. My sister may not pull pranks on me but I can relate to the fear Chrom feels a lot of the time with Lissa. Honestly kinda wanna see more sisters like that in anime and video games. Little sisters are not just sweet little cinnamon buns that love you all the time! They can be little demons sometimes I tell you.

[Etrurian emperor]

Since Koei had such a big hand in the game I wonder if the Houses are inspired by their usual three kingdoms. 

Edelgard and the Beagles are Wei: Adrestia comes off as more ruthless and morally questionable but its also efficient and strives to uses the power it seizes for a good cause. 
Dimitri and the Blions are Shu: They are seemingly the most benevolent faction with the most familial bonds among each other, and they are also the underdog. Despite this Faerghus and Shu both can easily become corrupted. 
Claude and the Deers are Wu: Basically those other guys that are useful to have around but ultimately aren't as important as the two nations having a rivalry. 

[Jandex]

I have a crapton of opinions that I'm going to say most of them :

Games, characters and units :

.Fe1,2,3,4 are shit

.Fe1 Marth isn't broken and so is Wendell ( and SD Wendell too )

.Fe3 b2 Gordin isn't amazing

. Fe3 b2 star shreds are the only fun thing about fe3 overall, nearly everything else is shit gameplay wise, they didn't fix the gameplay issues that fe1 had

. Ayra/Holyn, Jamka, Briggid aren't particularly bad units, just mediocre .the arena system of fe4 is literally the only good about its gameplay

. FE4's story is " good " but not amazing, gen 1 has some noticable flaws to it ( Deirdre and sigurd's poorly written romance, Eldigan, Dierdre's stupid scene..etc ), gen 2 is complete trainwreck

.Fe5 is very easy

. Carrion, olwen, Alva, kein, Robert, Halvan, Eda, are underrated

. Leif, asvel, safy, are extremely overrated

. The dismount and fatigue mechanic are completely useless and don't add anything

. Fe5 has the best map design in the entire series, the only bad chapters are 24x & 16B . Fe6's map design for the most part is half bad and half good

. Rutger, Marcus, Miledy, Percival, niime/yodel, Cecilia are overrated ( overrated =\= bad BTW )

 . Alan / Lance, Ellen, Dieck, Lugh, Lilina, Clarine, Treck, Sue, Oujay/Fir, Geese/Gonzalez, Hugh and Zeiss are all underrated

. The swordmaster class in FE6 is as flawed as in FE7 and 8, just because of +15% crt over 7 and 8 ones doesn't make it better

. Ch14,21, 7,4 and the sacae route isn't hard, it's just annoying because of low hit rates and other stuff . Fe6 isn't hard even on HM

. Dieck > Rutger, Lilina > Lugh, Alan / Lance = Percival, Ellen = Saul

. Swords in fe6 are only amazing in the early game ( ~ ch8 ) and ch9+10 and sacae, and then they're just ok, also as bad as axes are, they still have many uses ( ch11+12, ch13,ch14,ch15,ch16, ilia, ch21+21x, ch23 )

. Fe6's music is mediocre

. FE7 > 6 & 8 in every aspect

. Fe7 has the 2nd worst gaiden requirements in the entire series .

Marcus, Hawkeye are overrated .

Farina, Karel, Geitz, Heath, fiora, Guy, Eliwood, Rath, Serra are extremely underrated

. Battle before dawn is easy, and so is COD

. Hector's low move doesn't Hinder him at all in FE7 except for ch32 and battle before dawn for many reasons, the argument that " he's only good for early game but falls later because of low move " is retarded and biased

. FE8' music is shit

. Seth, Vanessa, Saleh, are overrated .

Lute, L' arachel, Kyle/forde, Natasha are underrated

. Same with duessel, his low move also doesn't hinder him

. FE8 being " braindead ez " and " grinding is free = bad " isn't bad thing lol, most FEs are extremely easy, also you can grind in EVERY FE because of arena

. Arvis and zephiel fucking suck and are overrated assholes, oh and Julius literally has 0 personality in both FE4 and 5 .

.FE12 & fates are the most underrated games in the series

. The camus archtype is shit

. The oifey archtype doesn't exist .

there isn't any " Mary sue " or " bland " lords in the series, people are just over exaggerating topics

 

[DragonFlames]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Since Koei had such a big hand in the game I wonder if the Houses are inspired by their usual three kingdoms. 

Edelgard and the Beagles are Wei: Adrestia comes off as more ruthless and morally questionable but its also efficient and strives to uses the power it seizes for a good cause. 
Dimitri and the Blions are Shu: They are seemingly the most benevolent faction with the most familial bonds among each other, and they are also the underdog. Despite this Faerghus and Shu both can easily become corrupted. 
Claude and the Deers are Wu: Basically those other guys that are useful to have around but ultimately aren't as important as the two nations having a rivalry. 

Exactly my train of thought. Here are some more comparisons to be drawn:

The post-time skip state of the Leicester Alliance, one part of it wanting to support Adrestia, the other wanting to resist it during the war, mirrors the state of Wu pre-Battle of Chibi, with one half of Sun Quan's council in favor of surrendering to Wei to prevent an impending invasion, the other half willing to fight back to secure the land.
Verdant Wind's ending nearly matches the hypothetical ending for the Wu faction in Dynasty Warriors 8 in that it's the one with arguably the most positive outlook on the future.
I knew there was a reason I liked Verdant Wind the most.

The way Dimitri dies in Verdant Wind in a way mirrors Liu Bei's death in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel: he orders a military expedition that ends in utter failure (Battle of Yiling/Dimitri's march on Enbarr) and dies a revenge-driven, broken man far away from home.

Silver Snow mirrors the way the Three Kingdoms era ended historically, with Jin (Byleth) overthrowing Wei (Edelgard) and then uniting the land under their banner.
Byleth's army in Silver Snow could be considered equivalent to Jin, because it takes previously Adrestia-affiliated individuals away from their previous ruler - Sima Yi's coup d'état against Wei's then de facto leader Cao Shuang thus mirrors Byleth deciding to stand against Edelgard in the Holy Tomb, where their students, who are from the Empire, decide to join them - leading to the creation of a fourth faction that ultimatey ends up winning the war for dominance in the land.

[vanguard333]

Oh, right; I almost forgot. @CH0D I said I would tell you why Ike isn't generic, so here it is:

Right from the get-go, we see how different Ike is from other FE lords with his determination, stubbornness, recklessness, and need to get stronger all on full display as early as the prologue, with him desperate to do so much as land one decent blow on Commander Greil during sparring. And that only becomes the tip of the iceberg. 

Ike is unique among FE lords in that he is a peasant: no land or titles to his name, no kingdom to reclaim and rule, nothing, and by the end of the story, he's still a peasant and he goes right back to being a mercenary. Right away, that makes him more relatable than most FE lords. This is further reinforced by him being a Badass Normal: in a world of magic, dragons, shapeshifters and goddesses, he's just a guy with a sword, yet he overcomes through hard work, determination, and a lot of skill. Marth, Alm, and all of them have magic special bloodlines that give them superpowers or make them entitled to legendary superweapons. Ike doesn't; he eventually gets a magic sword, but he isn't deemed "worthy" to use it by blood or anything; he just needs it because its the only weapon that can pierce the Black Knight's armour. 

Ike's personality also sharply contrasts most FE lords: he is blunt, introverted, has no sense of etiquette, reckless and stubborn, yet also kind-hearted in his own way. He is a natural leader, but only for small groups like the Greil Mercenaries; not large armies, and he is more than aware of his limits. 

His character arc is also one of the best that IS has ever written: his father's position is everything he aspires to become: leader of the Greil Mercenaries and a master swordsman. He even hopes one day to surpass his father in skill. But then, before he could ever get the chance, Greil is killed by the Black Knight; forcing the leadership position onto Ike far sooner than anyone expected. Unlike other FE games where everyone remains loyal and insists that the hero's their last hope, Shinon and Gatrie leave when they hear Greil is dead and Ike is taking his place. Ike has to grow into Greil's position as leader and as master swordsman; an arc that strongly mirrors Elincia's. And boy does he grow... By the end of both games, I honestly think he is the most powerful FE lord simply because we have such a clear understanding of his skill level, and it is immense. 

This ties in to what you were saying about finding it relatable when a character fails: Ike does struggle and fall quite a bit; I could just say, "see any time he fights the Black Knight before the last fight of Path of Radiance" and leave it at that, but there is more to it than that.

Ike is also a fantastic example of a paragon: a character that does good where they see good needing to be done, and inspires other characters around them in such a way that the paragon is a catalyst for their character development. As Ike grows, so do the people around him; most notably Soren and Elincia in Path of Radiance, and it is completely earned. Most FE protagonists are not paragons; Ike stands almost alone in this regard. 

 

I could go on, but I wanted to keep this fairly concise. I'll also post some additional things I've said in the past:

Quote

To start:

On 11/8/2017 at 8:20 PM, Anacybele said:

Ike is my favorite FE character and one of my all time favorite video game characters.

He was also the first FE lord and character I got to experience since I learned of him through Smash and PoR was my first FE game.

I just wish he hadn't gotten a stupid ending and had gotten an ending with Elincia (platonic or no).

All this; Path of Radiance was my first FE game, and I seriously wish he had gotten a better ending than he did. Considering he spent so much of both games trying to master his father's style of swordsmanship, I thought that he would at least give some thought to passing it down, perhaps by teaching others (as many sword masters throughout history ended up doing).

Now for my input:

As someone with high-functioning autism, my mind works a bit differently than others, and part of it is that it takes a lot more effort for me to learn about societal norms and such. So, naturally, I found Ike: an introverted, somewhat socially awkward peasant who has to learn about the world around him, far more relatable than all the princes and noble sons. I also like the fact that, apart from his vendetta with the Black Knight, his actions are built around trying to do good where he sees good needing to be done. He has internal motivation, not just, "My kingdom got invaded. I must fight back against the monsters and army of thousands using my thirteen soldiers." I like characters that have internal reasons to do stuff, and I like those kinds of moral paragon characters that do good when good needs being done and inspire others, and, despite the trouble his lack of social awareness often causes, he certainly also has the inspiring part down. The Black Knight even notes, "People seem drawn to him." This even makes him a catalyst for character development in other people; particularly Soren and Elincia.

His desire to do good, combined with the different way in which he views the world, makes him stubborn and reckless, but those are flaws that he learns from. Speaking of which, I like that he has actual character development. So many FE lords just don't have any obvious character development (Alm being a blatant example). Sure, Ike's development is considered to largely plateau in Radiant Dawn, but what character development is there, is actually really good, and there's more than enough of it in Path of Radiance to compensate.

I like that he actually recognizes his limits. Much like Khadgar in WoW (barely played the game, but did enjoy the lore and the film), Ike's acknowledgement of his own limits makes him all the more badass. He acknowledges repeatedly that he does not feel comfortable commanding an army, and gives orders such as, "Commander Tanith's troops, are to follow Commander Tanith's orders". He acknowledges that he still has much to learn when it comes to commanding the Greil Mercenaries (though he does grow into the role gradually and effectively), and he acknowledges his own mistakes and errors. I find it really interesting when a character recognizes where their limits are, and, for Ike, it was really well done.

I like that he is a master swordsman in the story, and is such a great unit in the gameplay. By the end, he easily cuts down pretty much everything apart from Ashnard and the Black Knight with ease.

On a smaller note, I also relate to Ike in having a black hole for a stomach, making all the jokes about his eating habits particularly funny for me.

Well; that's my input for now. I did say it could get long.

Quote

Ike is actually a really good example of a paragon. Apart from his personal vendetta with the Black Knight, everything he does, he does because he sees good needing to be done. He is blunt and reckless, yet his kindness and compassion, and the way he sees everyone as an equal, makes him extremely charismatic. By chapter 18 of Path of Radiance, the Black Knight notes that, "Though his skill with the blade is rough, there is something...uncanny about him. People seem drawn to him. And not just Begnion's apostle, either. He's also gained the trust of the Serenes survivors...and of King Phoenicis as well." No matter how much Ike's bluntness and lack of social etiquette may infuriate people, all Ike ever has to do is swing his sword around and act all blunt yet kind, and people from all across Tellius flock to his side like it's the right thing to do, because of how much of a paragon Ike is.
The way Ike inspires people is probably most evident in Soren and Elincia. Ike gives Elincia a much needed confidence boost throughout all of Path of Radiance, and he brings about quite a bit of character development in Soren as well, especially if one reads the support conversations between them.

This doesn't stop him from being flawed. Paragon characters aren't perfect; usually they're very stubborn and reluctant to change their ways if there's something wrong with what they're doing, because they're so certain they're doing the right thing. Ike is no exception: he is extremely reckless and gets in and out of a lot of trouble because of it. But, unlike a lot of FE lords, Ike learns from his mistakes. He sees where he's messed up, and learns from it, and is even willing to change his viewpoint about stuff if what he originally thought is proven wrong. Early on in chapter... 11 I think, he admits to falling into the trap of thinking, "Crimea = good, Daein = bad" because of the war. But, when he sees that that viewpoint is wrong, he learns from it and acts against that viewpoint. He learns, and his struggle to learn from his mistakes is really well done. 

Ike is a really effective example of a paragon character in Path of Radiance, and to an extent in RD, though it isn't shown nearly as much in RD. 

 

[eclipse]

@Jandex I want the reasoning behind all of your opinions.  To put it bluntly, your inability to articulate what counts as "overrated" versus "underrated" means that I can't tell if this is what you truly think, or if you're just trolling (and i have a vested interest in keeping trolling down).

[Jandex]

10 hours ago, eclipse said:

@Jandex I want the reasoning behind all of your opinions.  To put it bluntly, your inability to articulate what counts as "overrated" versus "underrated" means that I can't tell if this is what you truly think, or if you're just trolling (and i have a vested interest in keeping trolling down).

i wasn't trolling, sorry if i it came out like that or such

 

as for what i mean by " overrated " , there are many definitions, but what i mostly mean is that some units like Seth get treated like gods and that everyone else is shit, however FE8 is easy, the enemies are trash so even forde,kyle and franz can do the same roles he can, in other words he's not overrated because he's not amazing, it's just because he's not very special

 

and the other meaning is that units like Vanessa and leif have many flaws but get treated like amazing where they're not, in other words they're good but don't live up to their hype as much as people think

 

as for underrated, some units like Alance and zeiss are understated because " Miledy / Percival is better and outclass them " despite the fact that they can do the same roles, and some units like Azel, Lugh and fir are often thought as bad units while they're clearly not

Edited February 12, 2020 by Jandex

[Flere210]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh, right; I almost forgot. @CH0D I said I would tell you why Ike isn't generic, so here it is:

Right from the get-go, we see how different Ike is from other FE lords with his determination, stubbornness, recklessness, and need to get stronger all on full display as early as the prologue, with him desperate to do so much as land one decent blow on Commander Greil during sparring. And that only becomes the tip of the iceberg. 

Ike is unique among FE lords in that he is a peasant: no land or titles to his name, no kingdom to reclaim and rule, nothing, and by the end of the story, he's still a peasant and he goes right back to being a mercenary. Right away, that makes him more relatable than most FE lords. This is further reinforced by him being a Badass Normal: in a world of magic, dragons, shapeshifters and goddesses, he's just a guy with a sword, yet he overcomes through hard work, determination, and a lot of skill. Marth, Alm, and all of them have magic special bloodlines that give them superpowers or make them entitled to legendary superweapons. Ike doesn't; he eventually gets a magic sword, but he isn't deemed "worthy" to use it by blood or anything; he just needs it because its the only weapon that can pierce the Black Knight's armour. 

Ike's personality also sharply contrasts most FE lords: he is blunt, introverted, has no sense of etiquette, reckless and stubborn, yet also kind-hearted in his own way. He is a natural leader, but only for small groups like the Greil Mercenaries; not large armies, and he is more than aware of his limits. 

His character arc is also one of the best that IS has ever written: his father's position is everything he aspires to become: leader of the Greil Mercenaries and a master swordsman. He even hopes one day to surpass his father in skill. But then, before he could ever get the chance, Greil is killed by the Black Knight; forcing the leadership position onto Ike far sooner than anyone expected. Unlike other FE games where everyone remains loyal and insists that the hero's their last hope, Shinon and Gatrie leave when they hear Greil is dead and Ike is taking his place. Ike has to grow into Greil's position as leader and as master swordsman; an arc that strongly mirrors Elincia's. And boy does he grow... By the end of both games, I honestly think he is the most powerful FE lord simply because we have such a clear understanding of his skill level, and it is immense. 

This ties in to what you were saying about finding it relatable when a character fails: Ike does struggle and fall quite a bit; I could just say, "see any time he fights the Black Knight before the last fight of Path of Radiance" and leave it at that, but there is more to it than that.

Ike is also a fantastic example of a paragon: a character that does good where they see good needing to be done, and inspires other characters around them in such a way that the paragon is a catalyst for their character development. As Ike grows, so do the people around him; most notably Soren and Elincia in Path of Radiance, and it is completely earned. Most FE protagonists are not paragons; Ike stands almost alone in this regard. 

 

I could go on, but I wanted to keep this fairly concise. I'll also post some additional things I've said in the past:

 

And pretty much everything you said is a common shonen protagonist trope.  Wich is not that much of a problem as those trace back into ancient mythology(Cu Chulain in particular check every single checkbox.), but is also kinda impossible to deny if you watch shonens often. 

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Flere210 said:

And pretty much everything you said is a common shonen protagonist trope.  Wich is not that much of a problem as those trace back into ancient mythology(Cu Chulain in particular check every single checkbox.), but is also kinda impossible to deny if you watch shonens often. 

I've seen 6 anime total; three of which were Shonen Anime: One-Punch Man, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, and Spider Riders. The protagonists in those stories (Saitama, Edward/Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele, respectively) do have some similarities to Ike, but I don't think almost everything I said matches them. 

For a start, none of them are Badass Normals: Saitama is so powerful he obliterates every foe with one punch (hence the name of the show), Edward and Alphonse Elric are both highly skilled alchemists (a badass normal would be characters like Riza Hawkeye or Maes Hughes), and Hunter Steele is a Spider Rider.

All four are definitely introverts, and they all share loving food, but Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele aren't blunt, Saitama is simple-minded and too depressed to be stubborn, and Ed starts off as an outright jerk who has to learn to be more kind-hearted. 

None of them have positions of leadership thrust upon them. Hunter Steele starts and remains the New Guy among the Spider Riders for the entirety of the series, Saitama never has to lead, and Ed and Al never have to lead. 

Of the five, I would say that Ike, Saitama, and Hunter are paragons, but Ed and Al definitely are not. 

[Flere210]

15 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I've seen 6 anime total; three of which were Shonen Anime: One-Punch Man, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, and Spider Riders. The protagonists in those stories (Saitama, Edward/Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele, respectively) do have some similarities to Ike, but I don't think almost everything I said matches them. 

For a start, none of them are Badass Normals: Saitama is so powerful he obliterates every foe with one punch (hence the name of the show), Edward and Alphonse Elric are both highly skilled alchemists (a badass normal would be characters like Riza Hawkeye or Maes Hughes), and Hunter Steele is a Spider Rider.

All four are definitely introverts, and they all share loving food, but Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele aren't blunt, Saitama is simple-minded and too depressed to be stubborn, and Ed starts off as an outright jerk who has to learn to be more kind-hearted. 

None of them have positions of leadership thrust upon them. Hunter Steele starts and remains the New Guy among the Spider Riders for the entirety of the series, Saitama never has to lead, and Ed and Al never have to lead. 

Of the five, I would say that Ike, Saitama, and Hunter are paragons, but Ed and Al definitely are not. 

One Punch man being a shonen or not is an endless debate. That said, i  will put some examples.

15 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh, right; I almost forgot. @CH0D I said I would tell you why Ike isn't generic, so here it is:

Right from the get-go, we see how different Ike is from other FE lords with his determination, stubbornness, recklessness, and need to get stronger all on full display as early as the prologue, with him desperate to do so much as land one decent blow on Commander Greil during sparring. And that only becomes the tip of the iceberg. 

pretty much all the classic Goku inspired ones are like that. 

Ike is unique among FE lords in that he is a peasant: no land or titles to his name, no kingdom to reclaim and rule, nothing, and by the end of the story, he's still a peasant and he goes right back to being a mercenary. Right away, that makes him more relatable than most FE lords. This is further reinforced by him being a Badass Normal: in a world of magic, dragons, shapeshifters and goddesses, he's just a guy with a sword, yet he overcomes through hard work, determination, and a lot of skill. Marth, Alm, and all of them have magic special bloodlines that give them superpowers or make them entitled to legendary superweapons. Ike doesn't; he eventually gets a magic sword, but he isn't deemed "worthy" to use it by blood or anything; he just needs it because its the only weapon that can pierce the Black Knight's armour. 

Most of them end up being children of some overpowered bigshot, wich also Ike does. Example includes Luffy, Naruto, Gon. Goku, Midoriya and Asta have no special parent so far, but for the latter 2 this may change 

Ike's personality also sharply contrasts most FE lords: he is blunt, introverted, has no sense of etiquette, reckless and stubborn, yet also kind-hearted in his own way. He is a natural leader, but only for small groups like the Greil Mercenaries; not large armies, and he is more than aware of his limits. 

Those are the most blatant qualities of the aforementioned Goku mold. The only difference is that Ike is never highlighted as a big eater.

His character arc is also one of the best that IS has ever written: his father's position is everything he aspires to become: leader of the Greil Mercenaries and a master swordsman. He even hopes one day to surpass his father in skill. But then, before he could ever get the chance, Greil is killed by the Black Knight; forcing the leadership position onto Ike far sooner than anyone expected. Unlike other FE games where everyone remains loyal and insists that the hero's their last hope, Shinon and Gatrie leave when they hear Greil is dead and Ike is taking his place. Ike has to grow into Greil's position as leader and as master swordsman; an arc that strongly mirrors Elincia's. And boy does he grow... By the end of both games, I honestly think he is the most powerful FE lord simply because we have such a clear understanding of his skill level, and it is immense. 

The mentor dies almost always, and so does the character that served as a motivation(can't make examples whitout spoiling). Usually the hero prove he surpassed his mentor by defeating his killer.

There are also several moments where someone leave the group the protagonist is leading, whit One Piece having a famous one. 

This ties in to what you were saying about finding it relatable when a character fails: Ike does struggle and fall quite a bit; I could just say, "see any time he fights the Black Knight before the last fight of Path of Radiance" and leave it at that, but there is more to it than that.

Ike fight the BK three times in PoR and win the third one. This happen so often that tv tropes has a page about it.https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThirdTimesTheCharm

Ike is also a fantastic example of a paragon: a character that does good where they see good needing to be done, and inspires other characters around them in such a way that the paragon is a catalyst for their character development. As Ike grows, so do the people around him; most notably Soren and Elincia in Path of Radiance, and it is completely earned. Most FE protagonists are not paragons; Ike stands almost alone in this regard. 

Again, an almost obiquitus example, Midoriya being the most famous modern example. 

 

[Ottservia]

53 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I've seen 6 anime total; three of which were Shonen Anime: One-Punch Man, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, and Spider Riders. The protagonists in those stories (Saitama, Edward/Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele, respectively) do have some similarities to Ike, but I don't think almost everything I said matches them. 

For a start, none of them are Badass Normals: Saitama is so powerful he obliterates every foe with one punch (hence the name of the show), Edward and Alphonse Elric are both highly skilled alchemists (a badass normal would be characters like Riza Hawkeye or Maes Hughes), and Hunter Steele is a Spider Rider.

All four are definitely introverts, and they all share loving food, but Alphonse Elric and Hunter Steele aren't blunt, Saitama is simple-minded and too depressed to be stubborn, and Ed starts off as an outright jerk who has to learn to be more kind-hearted. 

None of them have positions of leadership thrust upon them. Hunter Steele starts and remains the New Guy among the Spider Riders for the entirety of the series, Saitama never has to lead, and Ed and Al never have to lead. 

Of the five, I would say that Ike, Saitama, and Hunter are paragons, but Ed and Al definitely are not. 

Well there’s your problem you haven’t watched any of the big 3, dragon ball, fairy tail, or HunterxHunter cause if you had you would realize Ike is very much a Goku inspired shounen protagonist as @Flere210 pointed out. If I had to compare him to one, I’d say he’s a fusion of Luffy and Naruto. Leaning more towards Luffy though. Cause Ike isn’t stupid like Luffy but they share a lot of the same traits. Hell both of their stories are about fighting racism(okay well only a part of one piece is about that but whatever). Again not a bad thing just an observation.

[vanguard333]

35 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Well there’s your problem you haven’t watched any of the big 3, dragon ball, fairy tail, or HunterxHunter cause if you had you would realize Ike is very much a Goku inspired shounen protagonist as @Flere210 pointed out. If I had to compare him to one, I’d say he’s a fusion of Luffy and Naruto. Leaning more towards Luffy though. Cause Ike isn’t stupid like Luffy but they share a lot of the same traits. Hell both of their stories are about fighting racism(okay well only a part of one piece is about that but whatever). Again not a bad thing just an observation.

Funny; I just started watching that one last weekend. I'm still on season 1 (and even after I finish that, Netflix only has season 1 for some bizarre reason), so I didn't list it. 

My point wasn't that Ike isn't like them; my point was that, while he has tropes in common with them, he himself is not a bag of tropes. He does still stand out on his own even if put alongside them. 

And again, Ike's hair isn't big or spiky enough.

[Ottservia]

13 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Funny; I just started watching that one last weekend. I'm still on season 1 (and even after I finish that, Netflix only has season 1 for some bizarre reason), so I didn't list it. 

My point wasn't that Ike isn't like them; my point was that, while he has tropes in common with them, he himself is not a bag of tropes. He does still stand out on his own even if put alongside them. 

And again, Ike's hair isn't big or spiky enough.

First of all, don’t continue fairy tail. Watch Naruto or One piece instead. They are leagues better than anything fairy tail will ever be. I say this as a person who has finished and unironically enjoys fairy tail. It is not a good show.

Secondly, yeah I agree. I personally dislike comparing characters like this because while they may have a lot in common as far as archetypes and tropes are concerned, they are ultimately different characters with different stories to tell meaning comparing them beyond the surface level is moot. I just like pointing out the similarities is all

[Acacia Sgt]

Personally, it's about perspective. Ike is nothing new... but within FE Protagonists, he was. Even then his character archetype isn't new to FE itself. He's basically an Ogma that gets to be the protagonist.

[eclipse]

9 hours ago, Jandex said:

as for what i mean by " overrated " , there are many definitions, but what i mostly mean is that some units like Seth get treated like gods and that everyone else is shit, however FE8 is easy, the enemies are trash so even forde,kyle and franz can do the same roles he can, in other words he's not overrated because he's not amazing, it's just because he's not very special

It really depends on the type of run!  If you're going for lower turn counts, having a unit that can stomp out of the box is really helpful.  Technically, everyone's viable in FE8, since postgame has stat boosters for sale, so if you're going slower, then it's a matter of who you want to train.

9 hours ago, Jandex said:

and the other meaning is that units like Vanessa and leif have many flaws but get treated like amazing where they're not, in other words they're good but don't live up to their hype as much as people think

I never got the type for Vanessa as a combat unit.  Her selling point for me is her ability to drop better units over terrain that they can't cross (for example, fly over the water in Chapter 9 Eirika).  Can't really talk about Leif, as anything past Chapter 3 of FE4 is unknown territory!

9 hours ago, Jandex said:

as for underrated, some units like Alance and zeiss are understated because " Miledy / Percival is better and outclass them " despite the fact that they can do the same roles, and some units like Azel, Lugh and fir are often thought as bad units while they're clearly not

Alan/Lance are really dependent on their early levels, since you get a lot of unpromoted horses, and not a lot of promotion items.  I'm a huge sucker for Zeiss, even if his stats are horribly unbalanced.  He makes a good backup to Miledy (because she can't be in two places at once).

Azel is unfortunately relegated to the generation where Sigurd can basically walk into an enemy crowd and take care of them.  I don't hear too many people bashing Lugh - yes, he's an investment, but he tends to pay off.  Fir's in an even more unfortunate spot than the cavaliers - Hero Crests are way too rare, and there's a lot of competition for them!  Still, if she's allowed to grow a bit, she's pretty funny.

I can understand the frustration behind certain units feeling like they're getting too much praise/not enough of it.  Thanks for clarifying!

[Flere210]

Azel is right behind Dhalsin in the "unit that would be good if Kaga did not go out of his way to screw them" list. Basic fire tomes have no business being that heavy, and the early aviability of tomes in general is terrible, forcing him to go several chapter whitoyt anything decent(and no, elfire is not decent).

If they do some rebalancing of tomes in a future remake, Azel would be a great unit.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Flere210

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Personally, it's about perspective. Ike is nothing new... but within FE Protagonists, he was. Even then his character archetype isn't new to FE itself. He's basically an Ogma that gets to be the protagonist.

I'd agree with this. For prior FE lords, you have Marthians/Marthalikes/Marth-esque lords, regal and usually mild- Marth, Alm possibly, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Eliwood, and even Sigurd should probably fall here, he isn't bellicose. Then you had the females, who were generally kind and disliking war, despite the differences between them.

And, you had Hector and Ephraim, who are the closest thing to Ike personality-wise, and you could possibly lump them together, making Ike not so new. Though Hector actually has some regality and accepts his lordly role, while I'd say Ephraim is usually more bellicose than Ike, besides accepting royal role too. Of course, Ike has differences between his PoR and RD selves, which complicates things. PoR Ike is the brasher and more openly emotive of the two, RD lke is more stoic; one starts as the underdog, the other the praised champion.

 

Then, I'm convinced we get a synthesis in Chrom, the physique and martial prowess of Ike was wed to the lordly Marthian. Of course, we already kinda had that with Sigurd, Hector, and Ephraim, ...but Chrom is new formulation of it. ...But, does Ephraim lose some bellicosity as he settles into being King of Renais by the end of SS? Hector I'd say would, but Chrom starts without this bellicosity, so does that make him different. And by "bellicosity", I mean more than just a love to train, which Ike has, I mean a desire to do more than that. But how I do truly prove/disprove this Ephraim and Hector?

...I'm getting confused now.

 

3 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Azel is right behind Dhalsin in the "unit that would be good if Kaga did not go out of his way to screw them" list. Basic fire tomes have no business being that heavy, and the early aviability of tomes in general is terrible, forcing him to go several chapter whitoyt anything decent(and no, elfire is not decent).

Disagreeing on the tomes. Fire is fine for doubling Chapter P&1 enemies, since most use -18 AS Axes to his -12 AS Fire, AS can be negative in FE4, and Azelle only needs a one point lead to double. When Lances show up in Chapter 2, so does Thunder, bringing Azelle up to Speed there. It's Swords alone and maybe some Bows which he'll struggle with doubling.

 

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I never got the type for Vanessa as a combat unit. 

The argument I once heard is that yes, you do have to dump early stat boosters, but because she is the first flier, she is worth it. Once given these special investments ASAP, she'll be able to start building momentum and do well, and do well with the precious unrestrained mobility of a flier.

But, considering a base level 4 Tana is more or less identical to a level 7 Vanessa, and how late most "early" stat boosters come, I don't see Vanessa being awesome. Ephraim Mode Cormag is another nail for her. At base, he nearly doubles her level 9 Str, can shrink her AS lead to 2 when both use Iron Lances, has 4 more Def, and his Res vs. Mogalls can be fixed with Pure Water/Barrier.

Maaaaaybe if you rig a lot of Str/Spd procs for Vanessa as part of semi-LTC play I can see her being amazing, but who would normally do that? It's unfair anyhow.

[eclipse]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The argument I once heard is that yes, you do have to dump early stat boosters, but because she is the first flier, she is worth it. Once given these special investments ASAP, she'll be able to start building momentum and do well, and do well with the precious unrestrained mobility of a flier.

But, considering a base level 4 Tana is more or less identical to a level 7 Vanessa, and how late most "early" stat boosters come, I don't see Vanessa being awesome. Ephraim Mode Cormag is another nail for her. At base, he nearly doubles her level 9 Str, can shrink her AS lead to 2 when both use Iron Lances, has 4 more Def, and his Res vs. Mogalls can be fixed with Pure Water/Barrier.

Maaaaaybe if you rig a lot of Str/Spd procs for Vanessa as part of semi-LTC play I can see her being amazing, but who would normally do that? It's unfair anyhow.

If we're going Full Rigging, we're doing it on one of Tana/Cormag.

[Flere210]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Disagreeing on the tomes. Fire is fine for doubling Chapter P&1 enemies, since most use -18 AS Axes to his -12 AS Fire, AS can be negative in FE4, and Azelle only needs a one point lead to double. When Lances show up in Chapter 2, so does Thunder, bringing Azelle up to Speed there. It's Swords alone and maybe some Bows which he'll struggle with doubling.

Yes he double, but is few point short of ORKOING, and the weight ruin his performance in the arena. And is also very infuriating that you have to fed kills to the worst tome in the series  because the game does not let use anything else.

As for Vanessa, according to the efficiency crowd, the earliest flyer is automatically entitled every single Angelic vest, energy fluid and dracoshield. It's like, the only reason Marcia is considered PoR best unit. Everyone is god whit enought favoritism, so the most mobile and aviable character is entitled to "enought favoritism". Wich is the main reason lategame should be balanced around caps imo. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Flere210

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

First of all, don’t continue fairy tail. Watch Naruto or One piece instead. They are leagues better than anything fairy tail will ever be. I say this as a person who has finished and unironically enjoys fairy tail. It is not a good show.

Isn't One Piece the one that takes years to catch up to because it has hundreds of episodes?

Don't worry about me; I'm not one to keep watching a show after the quality plummets. I gave up on Code Geass after the Euphemia Incident, I gave up on Gotham after season 3, and I gave up on Game of Thrones after season 3. I will just say that I have been enjoying Fairy Tail so far; there are some things I dislike about them (some of them being certain anime tropes that I find more annoying than anything else) but I'm enjoying the magic system and the main characters; I especially like a lot of the character arcs so far. 

 

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Secondly, yeah I agree. I personally dislike comparing characters like this because while they may have a lot in common as far as archetypes and tropes are concerned, they are ultimately different characters with different stories to tell meaning comparing them beyond the surface level is moot. I just like pointing out the similarities is all

Oh. Okay. 

 

@Flere210 Ike is highlighted as a big eater; in Radiant Dawn, Titania and Oscar say that Ike can eat as much as a Laguz (and not just any Laguz; they're not sure if the amount of food they have will last one meal between Ike and Skimir). 

[Etrurian emperor]

3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Isn't One Piece the one that takes years to catch up to because it has hundreds of episodes?

921 episodes to be exact. Me wanting to return to the series but not being able to due to the extreme length is my biggest anime frustration.