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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Actually an unpopular opinion of mine is that Mercenary and Myrmidon are redundant to have together. Especially when branching promotions exist! 

Honestly, I miss the "axe mercenaries" of FE5. They looked really cool, and I don't like the typecasting of axe users as huge and bulky. They nearly always are. More slim/agile or at least balanced axe fighters would be appreciated.

Edited by Alastor15243
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1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly, I miss the "axe mercenaries" of FE5. They looked really cool, and I don't like the typecasting of axe users as huge and bulky. They nearly always are. More slim/agile or at least balanced axe fighters would be appreciated.

It also helps them stand out more for Brigands/Pirates. 

Interestingly the TearRing Saga series never stopped having that depiction of Fighters. The Fighter of Berwick Saga is even the Navarre archetype.

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4 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

It also helps them stand out more for Brigands/Pirates. 

Interestingly the TearRing Saga series never stopped having that depiction of Fighters. The Fighter of Berwick Saga is even the Navarre archetype.

Fascinating... and I agree about the pirate thing. Honestly, having fighters and pirates is a similar redundancy thing to having myrmidons and mercenaries, if you think about it. We have two axe infantry, two sword infantry, and no lance infantry unless you count knights.

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6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Fascinating... and I agree about the pirate thing. Honestly, having fighters and pirates is a similar redundancy thing to having myrmidons and mercenaries, if you think about it. We have two axe infantry, two sword infantry, and no lance infantry unless you count knights.

I'm ok with Fighter and Pirates/Brigand, though pirate and Brigand existing separately  necessary. The problem is that Pirate/Brigand is almost always way better then Fighter. The thing is supposed to be that Pirate/Brigand has higher speed in exchange for lower skill then fighter which is fine in theory but Pirate/Brigand always has way more speed then Fighter has skill. Like in the DS games, Pirate has 15% skill growth and 30% speed growth which is higher then Fighter's 10% speed growth and 20% skill growth.

Similarly critical bonus is way better then bows.

I liked the idea in Berwick Saga that pirates can focus on thievery.

And we need lance infantry most the time.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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Just now, Alastor15243 said:

Fascinating... and I agree about the pirate thing. Honestly, having fighters and pirates is a similar redundancy thing to having myrmidons and mercenaries, if you think about it. We have two axe infantry, two sword infantry, and no lance infantry unless you count knights.

Well nowadays, the divide can be somewhat justifiable on more than flavor/base stats/caps grounds through differing class skills.

But, keeping Hero/Swordmaster and Warrior/Berserker while merging Merc/Myrm and Fighter/Pirate sounds fine to me. Characters using the same weapon and movement type don't need different classes to justify different base and growth spreads.

Pirate/Brigand runs into the problem of its water/mountain-walk being junk for the player as well. It's more an enemy-only class regarding these abilities because they're so sluggish, a mere two-three tiles. They need to be stronger for the player, without overloading the map design in yucky terrain that makes using normal units a total chore.

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Pirate/Brigand runs into the problem of its water/mountain-walk being junk for the player as well. It's more an enemy-only class regarding these abilities because they're so sluggish, a mere two-three tiles. They need to be stronger for the player, without overloading the map design in yucky terrain that makes using normal units a total chore.

I would disagree on that particular point; water walking is extremely helpful in Shadow Dragon, Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones and Berwick Saga. Mountain walking could be nice too.

I think the only time it wasn't useful was Path of Radiance and only due to Largo coming when all those maps had stopped appearing.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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28 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Lunatic+ was a brilliant concept that should be explored again in a game with a better design philosophy than Awakening had. The idea of enemies having powerful, completely randomized skills you have to adapt strategies to on the fly, essentially giving the game procedurally generated encounters you can't merely look up the answer to, is an awesome way to test the player's problem-solving skills and to maximize replayability. The skills themselves aren't an issue, and when you get going the game actually becomes surprisingly fun. The real issue is that, in addition to Awakening being fifty seven kinds of broken, Awakening's difficulty curve is absolutely terrible, and chapter 2 is prohibitively punishing and luck-based, making getting a file started an absolute pain. If Fates had come with a Lunatic+ mode, I would have lapped that shit up.

Fire Emblem has a bad track record with procedural generation, from the creature encounters of FE8, the risen encounter from FE13, the rehashed version of those from FE14, and auxiliary battles from FE16, not to mention random skills of Awakening Lunatic, and more noticably Lunatic+, the extremely variable enemy stats of FE5 (having a couple key enemies that rolled an extra point of move can drastically change how those maps feel, and often not for the better), none of them have been anything resembling good. I like it when more thought and effort is put into crafting a well designed battle, but adding extra procedural generation elements might detract from better encounter design.

 

32 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

 

Thracia 776 not having any soldiers hurt a lot as it meant you had no lance users during the indoor chapters, conversely TearRing Saga including Lionel the soldier was so much more awesome.

Sorry to get a bit pedantic, but both Xavier and promoted Dalshin are able to use Lances during indoor chapters, it just takes a lot of effort to get those two, and work their weapon ranks up from E.

 

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1 minute ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Sorry to get a bit pedantic, but both Xavier and promoted Dalshin are able to use Lances during indoor chapters, it just takes a lot of effort to get those two, and work their weapon ranks up from E.

Exactly and weapon ranks increase at a snail's pace.

I like lances, so its a little annoying for me. There should've been a soldier or at the very least, Lance Knights should've kept lances upon dismount.

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If there were an Intermediate Mode for the series (as in, a mode between Casual and Classic), my idea was this:

-Any fallen units are absent for a few battles

-There is a timer next to the units' portraits; units with a 2 must be absent for one battle, and units with a 3 must be absent for two battles.

-Units with a 1 can battle again, but at a catch; there max HP is reduced by 2, and they are lost forever when they fall in battle again.

-Surviving for 4 turns removes the 1 from the unit's portrait, and their max HP is returned to normal, but their current in-battle HP remains the same.

-When a unit falls to a normal hit, their timer number is 2. When they fall to a critical hit, their timet number is 3.

Edited by Perkilator
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8 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

If there were an Intermediate Mode for the series (as in, a mode between Casual and Classic), my idea was this:

-Any fallen units are absent for a few battles

-There is a timer next to the units' portraits; units with a 2 must be absent for one battle, and units with a 3 must be absent for two battles.

-Units with a 1 can battle again, but at a catch; there max HP is reduced by 2, and they are lost forever when they fall in battle again.

-Surviving for 4 turns removes the 1 from the unit's portrait, and their max HP is returned to normal, but their current in-battle HP remains the same.

-When a unit falls to a normal hit, their timer number is 2. When they fall to a critical hit, their timet number is 3.

I would get absolutely nothing out of that at all, but it would be a fun way to let less experienced players try their hand at an ironman run. If you never restarted and also weren't good enough to do classic ironman, I imagine that could be really interesting.

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20 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Xavier

I know a total of 2 people who recruited that guy, and it was a pain, just from watching.

20 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Dalshin

One of the most useless units series-wide

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1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Actually an unpopular opinion of mine is that Mercenary and Myrmidon are redundant to have together. Especially when branching promotions exist! 

Soldiers are significantly more defensive then Mercenaries.

 In the only games where they coexist  RD and Fates, they have the exact same def cap(Ike has inflated cap in general tho). If such a difference exist, it is not supposed to be huge.

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13 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

 In the only games where they coexist  RD and Fates, they have the exact same def cap(Ike has inflated cap in general tho). If such a difference exist, it is not supposed to be huge.

That isn't correct.

First of all, RD has no mercenaries, unless you mean Vanguard which has a a minus 3 defense cap and and minus 4 base defense compared to Sentinel.

And if you're counting Vanguard, then Path of Radiance's Hero class should be mentioned as having 4 less defense cap then Halberdier.

In TearRing Soldier, Spear Soldier also has higher defense, HP and attack then mercenary.

In Fates, Spear Fighter has higher defense then mercenary as well.

So if anything, Mercenary is consistently less defensive then Soldier.

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16 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

That isn't correct.

First of all, RD has no mercenaries, unless you mean Vanguard which has a a minus 3 defense cap and and minus 4 base defense compared to Sentinel.

And if you're counting Vanguard, then Path of Radiance's Hero class should be mentioned as having 4 less defense cap then Halberdier.

In TearRing Soldier, Spear Soldier also has higher defense, HP and attack then mercenary.

In Fates, Spear Fighter has higher defense then mercenary as well.

So if anything, Mercenary is consistently less defensive then Soldier.

Then the informations i checked where incorrect, i'll control again later.

Edit: another unpopular opinion, Tear ring saga is not a fire emblem game, otherwise the last story is a FF game and many other oddities.

Edited by Flere210
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1 minute ago, Flere210 said:

Then the informations i checked where incorrect, i'll control again later.

Edit: another unpopular opinion, Tear ring saga is not a fire emblem game, otherwise the last story is a FF game and many other oddities.

Was the last story originally a Final Fantasy game and done by the creator of the franchise? I'm legitimately curious?

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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On 2/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ottservia said:

that is definitely a fair assessment I can get behind. Fates is a really weird beast because I honestly do not think it's nearly as bad as people say it is and a lot of complaints I do hear don't really hold much water in my opinion. Fates certainly has it's flaws but I feel like a lot of people are misplacing their criticisms or blowing small things way out of proportion. The vallite curse is a relatively minor thing that I personally don't see much issue with for instance but I can see how it can bother some people. I don't think Corrin is a mary sue. They just kinda feel like a harem protagonist at times I feel(especially in supports cause in supports they're definitely written like one). Also the game is clumsy with it's portrayal of trust where Corrin is supposed to be that center of truth and trust but they overplay it sometimes which can get a bit annoying. Then again I hate the term mary sue in general. It's just a buzzword that has no meaning anymore. The biggest weaknesses of fates's writing in my opinion is its world building and its villain writing cause boy are those just not that good.

I also think Fates infamous reputation precedes it, though I can see why that became the case. While not the trainwreck people make it out to be, it is one of the barest definitions of "works" I can give a story. I got the impression that they had to grab the first thing that didn't fall apart and run with it, coming off like a first draft that had several great ideas but little time to capitalize on them. I wasn't moaning and groaning throughout my first playthough, but after the novelty of those cool ideas wore off, I did find myself disinterested in the main story and watched the scenes more to get context for the level and to give Fates a fair chance than because I found then engaging in their own right.

On 2/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ottservia said:

Also the fanservice in fates is just way too much.

To quote myself on what I think of Fates class designs:

On 9/1/2019 at 1:35 PM, Hawkwing said:

Eh, artistically they're solid. Class design wise, I'd say they take some steps forward, and some steps back when compared to Awakening. Female Cavaliers are actually covering their legs, but then they add a butt window. Fighters are wearing a shirt, and even the strange neck thing they wear looks less out of place, but then they have crotch armor. Female wyvern riders are wearing actual armor instead of what amounts to a blouse, but then there's Camilla. The armor of knights is repositioned subtly but it changes them from clumsy buffoons into intimidating fighters, but again females have a butt window. Shapeshifters are wearing reasonable clothing, but then their transformation animation sucks. Dark mages don't look like they belong only in a desert, but then it looks like they're wearing what amounts to swimsuits, and so on.

Some designs take a lateral move. Female mercenaries wearing a skirt isn't all that noteworthy considering the tunics they wore in the past more or less acted as one, and the animations of adventures gives off a greater "trickster" vibe than in the previous games, but the bow cape they wear is... odd. And that's all I can say about it; It's odd, and nothing else.

TL;DR Fates has less obvious fanservice when compared to Awakening, but it has more WTF design choices. At least, in regards to the classes.

I don't really know of any character fetishes, so that went over my head.

On 2/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ottservia said:

Too bad there's not much else to them beyond that, but hey what do I know good character writing? My favorite character is a one dimensional fetish pandering tsundere from a cast full of nothing but one note characters so obviously I couldn't possibly understand what makes for good character writing. I apologize for the sarcasm but I've been burned by this fandom far too much over the years. I couldn't help it. 

Awakening's cast is underrated, yet while I heavily disagree with the complaint that they're "just one-note tropes", I can't fully blame people for having it. You do have to go out of your way to see how rounded these characters are, and if you don't use a character either out of personal preference or because you have a hard time getting a use out of the class, then you are stuck with a questionable first impression. It does have the benefit of making unlocking supports more rewarding as you 

Some sentiments do make me raise an eyebrow, though. People complain about Ricken being nothing but "treat me like an adult", yet even before I dived into his supports, he never struck me that way, and after reading all of his I'd say he actually talks more about his family being on hard times and how he hopes to become a war hero to save their reputation than about being treated like a kid. Similarly, no one actually forgets that Kellam exists, and instead the joke is about his incredible lack of presence, and even then it's rarely the focus of his supports. It's like that for several characters, but you get the idea.

On 2/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ottservia said:

I apologize for the sarcasm but I've been burned by this fandom far too much over the years. I couldn't help it. 

Hey, discussion over the quality of Echoes story started a domino effect that ultimately left me jaded with what could be considered a "good" story to the point that I can't confidently say something has one without doing a huge analysis on it first. I can still say I enjoyed going through the adventure, thought.

On 2/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ottservia said:

I agree with this though Emmeryn would still be dead. Speaking of I wish IS would just characters who are going to die playable with supports cause that would make their deaths hit so much harder. They need to stop chickening out on that honestly.

The downside to this is mostly gameplay related. Some people would be ticked that a unit they invested in died not due to a poor decision or bad luck, but because the story said so. Others would simply not to use the character because they know that that experience would just go to waste.

Genealogy probably did this best by killing off almost all of the first gen characters and replacing it with a new cast from scratch, but that came with it's own issues. Namely that the second gen came off as less developed (although the sheer quantity of potential units probably had a bigger hand in that).

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23 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I also think Fates infamous reputation precedes it, though I can see why that became the case. While not the trainwreck people make it out to be, it is one of the barest definitions of "works" I can give a story. I got the impression that they had to grab the first thing that didn't fall apart and run with it, coming off like a first draft that had several great ideas but little time to capitalize on them. I wasn't moaning and groaning throughout my first playthough, but after the novelty of those cool ideas wore off, I did find myself disinterested in the main story and watched the scenes more to get context for the level and to give Fates a fair chance than because I found then engaging in their own right.

here's the thing about fates. For what it does well it does really well. Whenever it fucks up though, it really fucks up. Like there's no middle ground and that's why general opinions on the game are so divisive. I don't fault anyone for liking fates and thinking it's the best game ever cause I can totally understand why. On that same token I can understand why people would say fates is the worst in the series. It's just a very polarizing game in all honesty. I'm more so in the middle in regards to my opinions on it but y'know.

 

26 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I don't really know of any character fetishes, so that went over my head.

I mean it isn't rocket science to say that Elise and Sakura(albeit to a lesser extent) are very much so written to pander to the whole "little sister" fetish. A common enough fetish in anime and light novels to the point where it can be considered it's own genre. You watch enough anime and you really begin to pick up on it. Elise has it all. High pitched voice, calls main character "Onii-chan" frequently, looks incredibly young, acts incredibly young, has very child-like mannerisms, constantly goes on about how much they love their "onii chan", etc. It's all there. She is quite literally the embodiment of the pure and sweet imouto character. Not that that's a bad thing necessarily. It's just the fact that you can S-support her speaks volumes about what they were thinking when they made this character. Elise isn't a bad character but you can tell what they were thinking with her. Not helping matters are her voiced lines in the japanese hostile springs better where she says "色っぽい" which translates roughly to something along the lines of "sexy", "voluptuous", or "erotic". Yeah uhhh someone on the dev team definitely has a loli fetish and they are not subtle about it. Not only Elise but Felicia is definitely supposed to pander to the "clumsy maid" fetish. She's serves you, calls you master, wants to be your maid but is constantly tripping, just a whole big collection of moe. Like seriously just look up what a maid cafe is and you'll get the idea. You watch enough anime and you start to pick up on this stuff. Compared to the character writing a butt window is child's play in all honesty.

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This is appropriate as I’m nearing the end of playing Binding Blade, but my unpopular opinion is that I like Binding Blade more than Blazing Blade. I like both in general, but despite it’s multiple issues with balancing and the like I just enjoyed playing through Binding Blade more.

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3 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Edit: another unpopular opinion, Tear ring saga is not a fire emblem game, otherwise the last story is a FF game and many other oddities.

I haven't played any FF past 12, but TLS doesn't seem very FF to me. No summons, no obsession with shiny rocks, maybe there is a shared actiony combat modern JRPG vibe, but thats it.

TRS is an FE as much as Bloodstained is an Igavania. It's mimics the gameplay and themes extremely closely, with the former head of the established franchise leading it. Yet, the fact that it isn't an official part of the big name however makes considering it an FE/Igavania in a sense worthless, because it means the big franchise owner cannot legally use it, nor it is likely that the big developer could "learn" from it, since it is an ignorable bastard child they didn't make and which will never be as classic as the original franchise.

 

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

The downside to this is mostly gameplay related. Some people would be ticked that a unit they invested in died not due to a poor decision or bad luck, but because the story said so. Others would simply not to use the character because they know that that experience would just go to waste.

There are some solutions to the investment problem.

  • The first is to reward you with a ready replacement for whoever dies/permanently leaves. This is the approach taken in a certain Tales game and in a certain Final Fantasy.
    • In the Tales, you get a properly leveled character who is a carbon copy in gameplay, barring the need to spam Techs to learn the more advanced ones again- no big deal.
    • In the FF, as soon as the character is gone, their level, equipment and everything else is passed 100% onto another person, barring the tiniest of stat modifications.
  • A second solution is to make your investment transferable to a different character who isn't a new person filling in for the goner. This was the path chosen by Grandia. When characters who aren't in the final four leave you, their accumulated weapon and magic skill experience become items that when used will give that experience to another, be it old Feena and Justin or Rap the new guy.
  • A third solution is to reward you with special items for your investment. Final Fantasy IV's DS remake features Augments, which give new abilities to characters. FFIV has you rotate through a lot of nonpermanent characters before the final five becomes finalized at the very end. Why should somebody waste Augments- which are one-of-a-kind- on anyone not in the final five? Because, you can get new Augments after the temporaries leave for good, the more you gave them, the more new ones you get later.
  • A fourth, very limited, solution came about in FFII's GBA remake. Certain temporary playable characters die during the story, and when they do, they take their stuff to the afterlife, literally. The optional Soul of Rebirth mode has you using the dead characters with all the magics, stats, and equipment they had when they died, but death inheritance isn't terribly important since you can always train more and find new stuff in the land of the dead.
Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm ok with Fighter and Pirates/Brigand, though pirate and Brigand existing separately  necessary. The problem is that Pirate/Brigand is almost always way better then Fighter. The thing is supposed to be that Pirate/Brigand has higher speed in exchange for lower skill then fighter which is fine in theory but Pirate/Brigand always has way more speed then Fighter has skill. Like in the DS games, Pirate has 15% skill growth and 30% speed growth which is higher then Fighter's 10% speed growth and 20% skill growth.

Similarly critical bonus is way better then bows.

I liked the idea in Berwick Saga that pirates can focus on thievery.

I would chalk it more up to the point on Speed being leagues more impactful than Skill, and that the "bulkier" Fighters don't have a relevant bulk lead in practice. Terrain mobility is another strike almost strictly in Pirate's favor. I wouldn't say bows is worse than a crit rate, but either bows are a situational weapon or the other bow classes' advantages make them moot on Warrior.

Also I agree with Merc/Myrm split being redundant when branching promotion exists.

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I'd probably be fine having unified infantry classes.

  • Axe Fighter, which maybe if the game has class customization, can specialize in something like Water Walking/Mountain Walking like TRS. Promotion options for the Axe Fighter being Hero, Berserker, Warrior.
  • Sword Fighter, which promotes to Swordmaster, Hero or Assassin.
  • Lance Fighter, which promotes to General, Halberdier and ??? Maybe split Halberdier and Sentinel into different classes. Halberdier wielding Lances and Axes and focusing on offense, Sentinel wielding Lances and being a balanced class focusing on Skill and Defense(Aka the "Aran" class), and General wielding Lances, Axes and Swords and being just a tank.

Could probably be refined a bit, but just having those base "Fighter" classes like Thracia did(Barring Lance Fighter) would be fine with me. This way you can have tons more variety within a class for unit growths, and the choice is yours on how you want to utilize this. Are you a weird Ameilia fan who likes fast Generals? Then promote your Nephenee-esque Lance Fighter into a General!

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Honestly the more I think back on 3H's overall story the more I'm turned off by it. Maybe it's just a personal thing but I dunno something about that story just doesn't sit right with me. As to what it is I have no idea

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7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Honestly the more I think back on 3H's overall story the more I'm turned off by it. Maybe it's just a personal thing but I dunno something about that story just doesn't sit right with me. As to what it is I have no idea

I think I understand what you mean. What I think is the main cause is Byleth. He/she is the strongest and most important character in the entire world and the game constantly tells us how important he/she is and how much the lords need his/her support. But Byleth actually never influences the plot in a important way. Things just happen to him/her and he/she never reacts despite the fact that almost 50% of the story is about him/her (except Silver Snow, there it's worse).

Spoiler

Like when the village he/she lived in for a long time gets massacred, how he/she never reflects on the fact that he/she is basically a god or when Rhea tells how he/she came to be. The only time he/she actually reacts to something is when Jeralt dies but that is just for a short time and basically ends one chapter later. You could also make the argument for when you choose the church route but he/she never has an emotional reaction except for a more time mention where he/she says he/she doesn't want to kill Edelgard (which he/she also says in Verdant Wind).

As much as I dislike Robin & Corrin, at least they influence the plot and actually play an important role. Byleth is more like Kris but with way more screen-time. Also having no personality doesn't help. 

3h's story has the same issues that I think fe9 has but to a larger degree. Both have a very detailed world and a main character that isn't really related to the main conflict. But at least Ike has a rivalry which drives him during the story and actually has a personality.

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17 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

I think I understand what you mean. What I think is the main cause is Byleth. He/she is the strongest and most important character in the entire world and the game constantly tells us how important he/she is and how much the lords need his/her support. But Byleth actually never influences the plot in a important way. Things just happen to him/her and he/she never reacts despite the fact that almost 50% of the story is about him/her (except Silver Snow, there it's worse).

  Reveal hidden contents

Like when the village he/she lived in for a long time gets massacred, how he/she never reflects on the fact that he/she is basically a god or when Rhea tells how he/she came to be. The only time he/she actually reacts to something is when Jeralt dies but that is just for a short time and basically ends one chapter later. You could also make the argument for when you choose the church route but he/she never has an emotional reaction except for a more time mention where he/she says he/she doesn't want to kill Edelgard (which he/she also says in Verdant Wind).

As much as I dislike Robin & Corrin, at least they influence the plot and actually play an important role. Byleth is more like Kris but with way more screen-time. Also having no personality doesn't help. 

3h's story has the same issues that I think fe9 has but to a larger degree. Both have a very detailed world and a main character that isn't really related to the main conflict. But at least Ike has a rivalry which drives him during the story and actually has a personality.

Funny enough Byleth is probably the least problematic thing in 3H for me. I actually really like Byleth. They're written like a persona protagonist and that's always a fun time. IS actually handled this part of Byleth's character well and I like how their arc is essentially them being a kuudere where in they gradually learn to properly express their emotions through their interactions with their students. It's an interesting that I rather somewhat like. My main issue with 3H though is how it handles a lot of it's world building, pacing of it's story, and three paths plot structure which really wasn't needed in all honesty.

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