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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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I actually like FE6

I actually hate FE4

Valkyries are my favorite class, magic-users in general are very fun to use

Oiffeys/Jagens are one of my favorite characters to use (especially on harder modes)

I care very little about the plot.

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Attack stance was a great new addition and/or concept (in isolation -- pair ups themselves are a different matter). The only reason why the execution was/is flawed because units are usually either too squishy (overly punished by it) or too tanky (can ignore it) in Fates as a whole. And pair-up just outright counters it. In a world where the latter doesn't exist and HP values are much higher (seriously, why was attack stance introduced in a game where HP values are worse than they usually are) and DEF/RES are mellowed down a bit, attack stance would be a fantastic addition.

Related to that, I don't necessarily think this is an "unpopular" opinion, but Fates' direction with having low HP values is a poor design choice for other reasons as well (the only benefit I can see is allowing lower MT variance between weapons to still have impact). Heroes has the same issue as well. It's now either Burst Emblem or Tink Emblem. Rarely anything in-between.

 

Also, GBA CON was a good mechanic. I don't think it was perfectly balanced but it worked extremely well nonetheless. Pegasus were some of the better units in each game and suffered the most from it. Fighters were least affected by it and they were some of the worst. The point is that in terms of balance it was fine, and it's existence created varied weapon diversity between units. The main flaw was just the actual numerical balancing. The Sol Katti doesn't point towards the mechanic being bad -- it just meant that the actual weapon just shouldn't have been that heavy in the first place (it's like saying Jeigans shouldn't exist because of examples like Seth).

The current system (Fates or Echoes)? Basically just punishes slower units even more. A steel weapon is now bad on anyone with middling speed and only viable on faster units. Same with any weapon with "weight" these days. Faster units are now even better.

EDIT: Then again, weapons that cannot double do counteract that I suppose. That's the better direction to have for more powerful weaponry. Flat decreases in SPD just don't work for the most part (lowering doubling threshold would be a lot better as well, since it doesn't overly punish slower units who may start being doubled).

Edited by DLuna

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16 hours ago, SniperGYS said:

I like Hoshido more than Nohr, and Conquest story can go to burn in hell

I think most people just find this an objective fact. I mean, who thinks Nohr is made up of decent people (in the government/military anyway)?

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1 hour ago, familyplayer said:

I think most people just find this an objective fact. I mean, who thinks Nohr is made up of decent people (in the government/military anyway)?

I mean, i personally like Nohr's characters more. Hell, Soleil is my 2nd favorite female character in Fates.

Of course, Nohr is stuck with some of the worse characters in the series. Garon, Iago, Hans, Peri.

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4 hours ago, familyplayer said:

I think most people just find this an objective fact. I mean, who thinks Nohr is made up of decent people (in the government/military anyway)?

 But Nohr characters are more popular than the Hoshidans even if their nation Is not full of  decent people, this can be seen in the popularity polls (with only Takumi and Oboro in the top between the Nohrian royal and Corrin), also I have seen people that say "being the bad nation Is More cool!!" Or something similar, even ones that say "killing the Hoshidans Is more fun!" . Also Hoshido has less attention from merchandising and from the fans, thanks to popularity. And finally Is the part that some people prefer to play Conquest more for the gameplay and I agree, Conquest have better gameplay, but some of these people never played Birthright because they thought it was irrelevant or didn't cared about it.

That's why I consider liking Hoshido as an unpopular opinion, but well I can be wrong ir course, Im just using as base my experiencie in the fandom thanks to Tumblr, who Is probably the worse source for this stuffs.

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13 minutes ago, SniperGYS said:

That's why I consider liking Hoshido as an unpopular opinion, but well I can be wrong ir course, Im just using as base my experiencie in the fandom thanks to Tumblr, who Is probably the worse source for this stuffs.

See, there's your problem. Tumblr isn't exactly the best place to get opinions from. If anything, it's one of the worst. Tumblr shouldn't be taken seriously.

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32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

See, there's your problem. Tumblr isn't exactly the best place to get opinions from. If anything, it's one of the worst. Tumblr shouldn't be taken seriously.

The internet in general is never a completely 100% reliable source for opinions. After all, out of the millions (probably a billion, but I'll just put millions) of people who use the net, you're encountering people on a website that millions out of said millions use, then encountering a handful of said millions.

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I don't get where people are complaining about FE7's incoherent plot besides not showing a lot of Zephiel's flashback that was suppose to happen due to this game linking to FE6.

To me the plot of FE7 is more appealing than that of FE6. FE6 has a good plot but the way its presented makes it so bland and forgettable lacking any charm that FE7 does better.

During scenes in FE7, you have interactions between characters not related to plot like Hector teasing Eliwood. FE6, all characters ever tell in plot are just sentences that just tell what needs to be done next. Only very few characters do a little more dialogue than that but that's just it.

Now that's not to say that I don't like FE6 plot but at the same time, I don't get why people complain about FE7's plot.

 

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7 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I don't get where people are complaining about FE7's incoherent plot besides not showing a lot of Zephiel's flashback that was suppose to happen due to this game linking to FE6.

To me the plot of FE7 is more appealing than that of FE6. FE6 has a good plot but the way its presented makes it so bland and forgettable lacking any charm that FE7 does better.

During scenes in FE7, you have interactions between characters not related to plot like Hector teasing Eliwood. FE6, all characters ever tell in plot are just sentences that just tell what needs to be done next. Only very few characters do a little more dialogue than that but that's just it.

Now that's not to say that I don't like FE6 plot but at the same time, I don't get why people complain about FE7's plot.

In regards to complaints about FE7's story, it doesn't help that some people question how can or why other people can like its story so much, and that some of those that don't like its story use ShockOfGod logic to build their arguments for why FE7s story is "bad".

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14 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I don't get where people are complaining about FE7's incoherent plot besides not showing a lot of Zephiel's flashback that was suppose to happen due to this game linking to FE6.

To me the plot of FE7 is more appealing than that of FE6. FE6 has a good plot but the way its presented makes it so bland and forgettable lacking any charm that FE7 does better.

During scenes in FE7, you have interactions between characters not related to plot like Hector teasing Eliwood. FE6, all characters ever tell in plot are just sentences that just tell what needs to be done next. Only very few characters do a little more dialogue than that but that's just it.

Now that's not to say that I don't like FE6 plot but at the same time, I don't get why people complain about FE7's plot.

I like FE7's story well enough, but it does have problems.  Nergal's power level is inconsistent at best, with the summoning of the final boss in particular being something he logically shouldn't be able to do, since he spent the entire game chasing down Ninian and Nils for that exact purpose then suddenly opens the Gate on his own when he dies.  Ninian's revival is an asspull, as well, with no prior indication that complete revival is possible in Elibe-verse and no explanation or foreshadowing.  I appreciate FE7 making the conflict more personal and less grand in scale, but it does need some repairs in terms of how it's actually written.

FE6's plot, meanwhile, has no real glaring plotholes, it's simple, but it works.  I'd spread the exposition dump in Chapter 24 throughout the Gaidens or something and wouldn't change much else.  Narcian could stand to be less stupid, but I guess one can also say that's part of what made him entertaining.

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  • Awakening is my favorite game.
  • I hate Tharja
  • I hated Conquest and all of Nohr in general(except for one unit).
  • Soliel is my favorite character other than Etzel or Lukas or Cordelia.
  • Cordelia is best waifu

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3 hours ago, Heruseus said:

Cordelia is best waifu

I'm pretty sure this isn't that unpopular considering she's in FE Warriors. Though I guess that's ironic for me since I don't understand the Cordelia love, but then again, I don't delve into supports enough for my own good. That's why I was a little happy that I only had a few to go through in Echoes.

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7 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Nergal's power level is inconsistent at best, with the summoning of the final boss in particular being something he logically shouldn't be able to do, since he spent the entire game chasing down Ninian and Nils for that exact purpose then suddenly opens the Gate on his own when he dies. 

He kinda turned her into a dragon, so he absorbed all of her quintessence thus opening the door. He only needs quintessence to open the door which both Ninian and Nils have high amounts.

7 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

FE6's plot, meanwhile, has no real glaring plotholes

Depends on what you think is glaring or not as there are quite a few in my mind

Roy's army did not possess Durandal, despite Lilina being alive, since her survival is the requirement for Roy to enter the Gaiden Chapter to retrieve it.

Despite having the "bad ending", it is certainly strange that neither Etruria, Lycia, nor Bern went in search for Idunn.

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8 hours ago, Harvey said:

Roy's army did not possess Durandal, despite Lilina being alive, since her survival is the requirement for Roy to enter the Gaiden Chapter to retrieve it.

...What? If Roy fails to rescue Lilina, then they don't get Durandal. If he does succeed in rescuing Lilina, then they do get Durandal. How is this hard to understand?

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

Despite having the "bad ending", it is certainly strange that neither Etruria, Lycia, nor Bern went in search for Idunn.

It is certainly strange that you consider the bad ending to be canon. I don't see why whether or not the bad ending has a plot hole should matter. Because it's, you know, the bad ending. It's not canon.

Edited by Armagon

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8 hours ago, Harvey said:

He kinda turned her into a dragon, so he absorbed all of her quintessence thus opening the door. He only needs quintessence to open the door which both Ninian and Nils have high amounts.

No, if that was a viable solution he would have done it earlier.  Only Nils and Ninian themselves could open the Gate earlier in the story.   

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

Depends on what you think is glaring or not as there are quite a few in my mind

Roy's army did not possess Durandal, despite Lilina being alive, since her survival is the requirement for Roy to enter the Gaiden Chapter to retrieve it.

Despite having the "bad ending", it is certainly strange that neither Etruria, Lycia, nor Bern went in search for Idunn.

 Lilina being alive at the end of Chapter 8 is what gets you Durandal though???  I don't see any plot hole here.  If Lilina died in Chapter 8, Roy's army does not have Durandal because she didn't lead him to the cave.  If she lived, they get it.  Simple as that.

Because it's the bad ending, and Idoun tended to hang in the shadows most of the war anyway.  I think she appears in person like, twice before you beat Zephiel.

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9 hours ago, Harvey said:

He kinda turned her into a dragon, so he absorbed all of her quintessence thus opening the door. He only needs quintessence to open the door which both Ninian and Nils have high amounts.

No. Ninian turned into a dragon during that scene for the same reason why Goku turned into a Super Saiyan when he first fought Frieza. As for how Nergal managed to open the door, I always imagined it that it was because he channeled Quintessence through Ninian's and Nils' Dragonstones to mimic their bio-signatures, since their draconic energies were placed in them. Especially since some of the Quintessence used was in fact Ninian's.

Quote

Roy's army did not possess Durandal, despite Lilina being alive, since her survival is the requirement for Roy to enter the Gaiden Chapter to retrieve it.

Read what Glaceon Mage and Armagon said; this isn't a plot-hole by any means. The explanation for why you wouldn't get Durandal in FE6 writes itself there.

Edited by Just call me AL

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

...What? If Roy fails to rescue Lilina, then they don't get Durandal. If he does succeed in rescuing Lilina, then they do get Durandal. How is this hard to understand?

Because before the gaiden chapter, the game never hints you to keep her alive thus making it more or less of a plothole. Or that its more or less of a cryptic part of the game.

Sure, keeping her alive might be easy but that doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't hint on how you can access the first gaiden chapter thus making it more or less of a plothole.

18 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

No, if that was a viable solution he would have done it earlier.  Only Nils and Ninian themselves could open the Gate earlier in the story.   

Uhh no. He only needed their quintessence to practically open the door. I mean why else would he use his morphs to absorb every quintessence of the black fang?

20 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Because it's the bad ending, and Idoun tended to hang in the shadows most of the war anyway.  I think she appears in person like, twice before you beat Zephiel.

Just because its a bad ending, doesn't give it an excuse that its not a plot hole. That's like saying the good ending of God of War 3 is good despite it not making any sense.

 

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11 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Because before the gaiden chapter, the game never hints you to keep her alive thus making it more or less of a plothole. Or that its more or less of a cryptic part of the game.

Sure, keeping her alive might be easy but that doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't hint on how you can access the first gaiden chapter thus making it more or less of a plothole.

The entire plot of the game from Hector's death to Chapter 8 is trying to rescue her.  And if she's not alive, then Roy doesn't get Durandal because she never shows him where it is.  That's not a plothole, it makes total sense as it is.  Lilina lives: she shows Roy where the cave is and they grab Durandal.  Lilina dies: she can't show Roy where the cave is, and thus the Durandal is never recovered.   This isn't complicated or hard to understand.  

11 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Uhh no. He only needed their quintessence to practically open the door. I mean why else would he use his morphs to absorb every quintessence of the black fang?

To control them, as well as make more morphs.  

11 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Just because its a bad ending, doesn't give it an excuse that its not a plot hole. That's like saying the good ending of God of War 3 is good despite it not making any sense.

Then what about the other point?  Idoun was in the shadows most of the time, and they had no means of tracking her without all the divine weapons.

Also I can't comment on unrelated games I haven't played.

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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36 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Because before the gaiden chapter, the game never hints you to keep her alive thus making it more or less of a plothole. Or that its more or less of a cryptic part of the game.

Sure, keeping her alive might be easy but that doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't hint on how you can access the first gaiden chapter thus making it more or less of a plothole.

Hector literally tells you right before he dies that Lilina knows the location of Durandal. If Lilina dies, then she can't lead the group to where Durandal is located. It's common sense. There is no plothole here.

38 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Just because its a bad ending, doesn't give it an excuse that its not a plot hole.

But the bad ending isn't canon, so why should it matter?

38 minutes ago, Harvey said:

That's like saying the good ending of God of War 3 is good despite it not making any sense.

Never played a God of War game so i can't really comment on it. All i can say is, if that game's canonical ending has a plothole, then it's that game's fault. It's irrelevant to the current conversation.

 

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38 minutes ago, Armagon said:

But the bad ending isn't canon, so why should it matter?

Because she went with Brunya at that point?

Also didn't Yahn just mentioned to Roy that she was capable of producing dragons and that was Zephiel's ultimate plan if you choose the good ending?

Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense for the bad ending ro reflect on that part instead of having unknown whereabouts?

Man..I think I need to stop here seeing how many seem to be defensive about the game's overall plot.

 

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2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Because she went with Brunya at that point?

Also didn't Yahn just mentioned to Roy that she was capable of producing dragons and that was Zephiel's ultimate plan if you choose the good ending?

Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense for the bad ending ro reflect on that part instead of having unknown whereabouts?

Idoun went with Brunya but Brunya isn't the one who gives the orders.

She's capable of producing dragons......so long as she is ordered to. That's the very reason her soul was stolen in the first place.

Wouldn't it make sense if the bad wasn't canon, so it doesn't really matter what happens in it?

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Man..I think I need to stop here seeing how many seem to be defensive about the game's overall plot.

Are you seriously pulling the defensive card again? "Man, people aren't agreeing with me, they are so defensive". That's a shitty cop-out.

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On 8/13/2017 at 9:42 AM, SniperGYS said:

That's why I consider liking Hoshido as an unpopular opinion, but well I can be wrong ir course, Im just using as base my experiencie in the fandom thanks to Tumblr, who Is probably the worse source for this stuffs.

it's not just Tumblr where that opinion is. In pretty much every segment of the FE community, the Nohrian royals and CQ are preferred for the reasons you listed; also, the Hoshidan characters are called "boring" because they lack a lot of the Nohrian characters' instability, which is ridiculous. Sure, the trauma that the Nohrian royals went through that reflects in their personalities is interesting, but we never see more of it past sparse mentions. For the Hoshidans, being well-adjusted is a good thing, not a negative...

I prefer the Hoshidan characters in general over the Nohrian ones; Laslow is really the only CQ character that I adore, and they have the lion's share of the poorly written ones.

But I'm in this opinion camp too.. I've always preferred Hoshido to Nohr, and I like Birthright more than Conquest. Sure, CQ's gameplay is more interesting/stimulating, but the story is an absolute trainwreck, and it derails every single Nohrian royal and Corrin his/herself.

Sure, I don't like or believe Hoshido being unrealistically perfect (I know it's not, and we get some indication of dissent in a few supports, like the one with Saizo and Hinoka about those disgruntled nobles, but it's not enough).

Birthright is standard good vs. evil fare, and it's serviceable. And you actually have Corrin being heroic as opposed to being the attack dog of a madman, and whining about it the whole time.

Alright, I'm done with this rant. It's kind of beating a dead horse at this point.

Edited by Extrasolar

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Idoun went with Brunya but Brunya isn't the one who gives the orders.

She's capable of producing dragons......so long as she is ordered to. That's the very reason her soul was stolen in the first place.

Wouldn't it make sense if the bad wasn't canon, so it doesn't really matter what happens in it?

Uhh..no.

She was ordered to hand Idoun over to Jahn and that she would start producing dragons. Its practically the main reason why you have to face her in chapter 23 in the first place...

Also, Zephiel already ordered her to prepare to create dragons even if he were to face death if I recall correctly.

And no, it doesn't make sense to make the bad not cannon since the game forces you to get all the divine weapons to get the best ending to begin with. That and the ending that the player gets hands on is neither bad nor is it even good. Its just ends somewhat of a cliff hanger if you ask me.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Are you seriously pulling the defensive card again? "Man, people aren't agreeing with me, they are so defensive". That's a shitty cop-out.

No I'm not. Its just that you and some others are defending FE6's plot even to its extreme. All I said is that while the story is good, the way its presented just makes it bland.

And with that said, I'm done with this "opinion" here and I'm going to move on to the next one...which is something more of a wonder and less of an opinion.

Why couldn't they instead delay FE6's release date instead of releasing FE6 first and then doing one year of development for FE7 is something I really don't get at all in my unpopular opinion.

Now if it took like three years to make FE7, then I can get that idea of why they wanted to release FE6 sooner rather than later. But FE7 just took one year to make which would have been the exact extra time Binding Blade could have used to fix many of its issues. This really makes me wonder so much so and just makes me wonder just how IS is able to somehow release consistently good games while at the same time create glaring issues one way or another. This way, it would have made perfect sense to localise FE6 due to Roy being in Smash and fans in general would get to play as Roy...but instead, we are stuck with Eliwood...and all other characters that were not mentioned from Smash.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Uhh..no.

She was ordered to hand Idoun over to Jahn and that she would start producing dragons. Its practically the main reason why you have to face her in chapter 23 in the first place...

Exactly. Brunya was ordered to hand over Idoun to Jahn. But Brunya herself does not command Idoun.

12 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Also, Zephiel already ordered her to prepare to create dragons even if he were to face death if I recall correctly.

Creating War Dragons =/= ordering them. Idoun and the War Dragons can't really do anything unless they are ordered to.

13 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And no, it doesn't make sense to make the bad not cannon since the game forces you to get all the divine weapons to get the best ending to begin with. That and the ending that the player gets hands on is neither bad nor is it even good. Its just ends somewhat of a cliff hanger if you ask me.

How does the true ending end on a cliffhanger? Bern is defeated, Idoun's soul is restored, Guinevere becomes queen of Bern, the Lycia Alliance becomes the Kingdom of Lycia, the Western Isles become their own independent nation. How is this a cliffhanger? Blazing Blade's ending is a cliffhanger. Binding Blade's isn't. Binding Blade's story wrapped up pretty nicely.

17 minutes ago, Harvey said:

No I'm not. Its just that you and some others are defending FE6's plot even to its extreme.

We aren't though. We're defending it, yes, but only because some of your statements are outright wrong. Such as

15 hours ago, Harvey said:

Depends on what you think is glaring or not as there are quite a few in my mind

Roy's army did not possess Durandal, despite Lilina being alive, since her survival is the requirement for Roy to enter the Gaiden Chapter to retrieve it.

Also

18 minutes ago, Harvey said:

All I said is that while the story is good, the way its presented just makes it bland.

>Story is good
>Story is bland

Pick one. Usually, people don't associate good and bland together.

19 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Why couldn't they instead delay FE6's release date instead of releasing FE6 first and then doing one year of development for FE7 is something I really don't get at all in my unpopular opinion.

Because FE7 was never planned in the first place. FE7 was planned after FE became popular due to Marth and Roy's presence in Melee. Had Marth and Roy never been in Melee, FE7 would've never happened.

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9 hours ago, Harvey said:

Because before the gaiden chapter, the game never hints you to keep her alive thus making it more or less of a plothole. Or that its more or less of a cryptic part of the game.

Sure, keeping her alive might be easy but that doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't hint on how you can access the first gaiden chapter thus making it more or less of a plothole.

Lilina joins in Chapter 8 as a Blue Unit.

In Fire Emblem, Blue Units = The Player's Units.

If a Blue Unit dies, it's gone for good.

Therefore, Blue Units must be kept alive at all costs.

The game doesn't tell you to keep Lilina alive because keeping her alive is Fire Emblem 101. Geez Louise, man.

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