What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Icelerate said:

No I meant both Tellius lords are quite different from the rest. Ike wasn't royalty so his story is not that of a typical FE royal. I don't see how following the commands of Pelleas does not make her different from other FE lords. Unlike them, she's the retainer while the other FE lords have retainers.  

Oh, you're mostly referring to their status rather than what they do in the story. Well in that way I guess that is true. 

[Icelerate]

1 minute ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Oh, you're mostly referring to their status rather than what they do in the story. Well in that way I guess that is true. 

Even in terms of what they do, they are different. Ike in RD isn't fighting to reclaim a country but to invade one due to having legitimate grievances much like Edelgard, even though in his case, he isn't the aggressor but one can argue that his faction went overboard in their retaliation. Micaiah's actions are also not that of a typical lord because unlike the other lords, she's put in a situation where she hates what she has to do. 

[Alastor15243]

If we're talking about abnormal lords and stories, I think Lyn and Lyn mode have everyone soundly beat.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Even in terms of what they do, they are different. Ike in RD isn't fighting to reclaim a country but to invade one due to having legitimate grievances much like Edelgard, even though in his case, he isn't the aggressor but one can argue that his faction went overboard in their retaliation. Micaiah's actions are also not that of a typical lord because unlike the other lords, she's put in a situation where she hates what she has to do. 

I don't see how Ike and the Laguz army aren't the agressers. They are the one forming an army attacking a nation that has displayed no intention to invade them. One could argue they're justified in their aggression due to the whole Serenes Massacre and mysterious envoy killing, but like they are the aggressors. Rather unquestionably. As far as I remember the situation.

[Koops]

I'm pretty the whole thing was started upon the senate murdering a laguz messenger tho, which ultimately was an act of complete disrespect to the entire race, because not only they ignore them but they also actively spit in their faces that they don't want anything to do with them, which I think when done on the scale of Begnion vs All Laguz countries, really makes it a colossal and unforgivable insult. Don't forget that this whole thing happened as the Laguz were attempting to uncover the truth about the Serenes Massacre, which in the end, it really just raises suspicions more than ever and knowing the Laguz's short temper when it comes to fighting, that most definitely would not end well.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 4/18/2020 at 6:43 AM, Harvey said:

[...] and the fact remains that there's tons of better units that are better than Snipers even in fates.

Units and Classes are two separate things, at the very least in the context of Fates. Yeah there´s probably better units than Setsuna. Takumi? Ehhhh, open for discussion on a case to case basis I say. Children I don´t account for (Kiragi).

On 4/18/2020 at 8:57 AM, Harvey said:

I did have backup and that's the very low amount of snipers you can get + the fact that there are classes that have better skills and advantages. 

… A class is bad because there´s so few of them? Well, excuse me then, obviously Malig Knight is bad because you only get one in Fates. /s

Name a few skills that are better than +40 Accuracy on Attack, +4 Damage on Attack or +5 Damage when using Bows regardless of attacking/defending and are available to one single class.

Also, other advantages please, unless they only boil down to MOAR MOVE and NOT 2 RANGE-LOCKED.

On 4/18/2020 at 8:57 AM, Harvey said:

Mozu cavalier > Mozu Sniper for a reason.

Wow. Why not give some of these splendid reasons to start with then, eh?

One thing I fell that needs to be mentioned in the context of Mozu: the question isn´t will she perform well, but rather do I want to use her. As long as she´s reclassed into a physical class she should perform good to great. I am not sure there´s a class she doesn´t max out STR/SKL/SPD in if you are into shiny green numbers.

Now onto Horse!Mozu vs Bowzu.

First off, how to get her into the class. Archer? EZ, bring Heartseal and Bronze Bow, start babying. Cavalier? Lol. There´s 3 option for Mozu to get Cav, that’s Silas, Corrin with Cav talent and Xander. Silas/Corrin are available from the moment you recruit Mozu, so probably around chapter 8-10, Xander only from chapter 16 onwards. At that point why bother with Mozu? Then you have Mozu S-support any of them, which means about 3-5 (not sure how accurate this be) chapters combat, so assuming we recruit her before chapter 8 and include the MyCastle battle, so around I think chapter 11 we get HorseMozu, unless we grind in MyCastle battles.

So then we may have a Mozu ranging from Lv 1-?, because she probably sits there as a backpack. As an Archer no biggie, we don´t need her to take aggro. As a Cav? Yeah no. A Cav reclass gets her +1STR/+1SKL/+1DEF/+3RES. That´s neat, but certainly not combat ready for a frontliner.  Her statline will however depend on the levels she may have gained whilst being a backpack, the occasional Kill Stealer, so that´s up for discussion.

Stat wise, Cav-line gives +1STR/MAG, -4SKL, -3SPD, +3LCK, +1DEF, +3RES over Archer, with only LCK/RES outgrowing Archer-line. HP is absolutely the same. STR/SKL/SPD caps are hit in both cases, with Sniper having higher SKL/SPD cap.

As for Skills, ehhh. Elbow Room is always nice and from the top of my head there’s not too many maps that force you into terrain. Well except Chapter 19, 22? So, Elbow Room > Skill +2.

Shelter vs Quickdraw. Shelter most certainly has it´s uses both in deliberate strategy, as well as a “OH FUCK, OH SHIT” button. But Quickdraw gives +4 Atk on PP, so it makes killing enemies easier. It also next to negates the Dmg boon Cav has over Archer, by virtue of having +1STR and Elbow Room.

Defender vs Certain Blow. No contest. Defender is nice and all, but +40 Accuracy is next to a guaranteed hit on ANYTHING.

Aegis vs Bowfaire. Procc-Skill vs guaranteed damage. No contest I´d say.

I guess Cav Mozu gets +2 Mov. Which helps her get to combat faster, so she dies faster. There´s also the fact that you get 4 Cavs in Conquest to begin with. Taking into account children we also get Sophie and Siegbert. What do we need the 5^th/8^th Cav for? So that Fox chapter hardcounters even harder?

On 4/18/2020 at 8:15 AM, starburst said:

Otherwise, it may be useless on both Player Phase (not enough power) and Enemy Phase (not enough endurance.)

I mean in Fates we do have 2 Samurai/Swordmaster who kinda go into that direction, no? Hana who is a glass cannon – so much so I´d unironically argue she´d do better as a Sniper or a Ninja, ANYTHING that doesn´t put her on the frontline. And then there´s Hinata, who is not particularly fast/strong but fairly tanky for a Samurai/Swordmaster. Granted there is Ryoma who is not as primed for offense as Hana, nor as tanky as Hinata but combines both of their traits in one unit and puts a personal weapon on top of it as well as a pretty good Personal Skill.

[Etrurian emperor]

I wouldn't call Ike that much of a departure from other lords. FE lords typically get based on either Marth or Hector, and Ike very neatly falls into the Hector camp. He's rather conventional despite being a commoner. 

 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Koops said:

I'm pretty the whole thing was started upon the senate murdering a laguz messenger tho, which ultimately was an act of complete disrespect to the entire race, because not only they ignore them but they also actively spit in their faces that they don't want anything to do with them, which I think when done on the scale of Begnion vs All Laguz countries, really makes it a colossal and unforgivable insult. Don't forget that this whole thing happened as the Laguz were attempting to uncover the truth about the Serenes Massacre, which in the end, it really just raises suspicions more than ever and knowing the Laguz's short temper when it comes to fighting, that most definitely would not end well.

Yeah, so a somewhat justifiable and understandable act of aggression, but still the aggressors. The laguz army are the ones on the offensive. The Begnion senate might have no respect for the laguz, but they aren't initiating the war in an attempt to subdue or occupy Galia. It is a defensive war for them. Ike and the Laguz army are the ones on the attack from the outset.

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

… A class is bad because there´s so few of them? Well, excuse me then, obviously Malig Knight is bad because you only get one in Fates. /s

 

Few doesn't mean bad. It means being underwhelming. And Sure, Camilla Malig Knight is underwhelming but then again, you can change her into better classes.

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Name a few skills that are better than +40 Accuracy on Attack, +4 Damage on Attack or +5 Damage when using Bows regardless of attacking/defending and are available to one single class.

Vengence bowbreaker for sorcerer. Then Luna and Armored Blow. I can go on.

Ok so I forgot that horse mozu requires waifu to get that. Still isn't saying much when you consider you have very few units who can become snipers in Fates. That being underwhelming makes it a niche thing instead of the point that I'm trying to make and you seem to ignore is that until Echoes, Snipers were just worthless to me.

For my next opinion..atleast this one should be decent is that I prefer Swordmasters over Heroes.

Sure, Heroes have 1-2 range better than Swordmasters and yes, Sol can like give them more durability but Swordmasters have more skill which means a high chance to hit and their skills are just too deadly that It hardly matters.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Harvey

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Harvey said:

 

Few doesn't mean bad. It means being underwhelming. And Sure, Camilla Malig Knight is underwhelming but then again, you can change her into better classes.

Guard Stance, Luna, Vantage, Sol, Astra..I can go on.

Ok so I forgot that horse mozu requires waifu to get that. Still isn't saying much when you consider you have very few units who can become snipers in Fates. That being underwhelming makes it a niche thing instead of the point that I'm trying to make and you seem to ignore is that until Echoes, Snipers were just worthless to me.

For my next opinion..atleast this one should be decent is that I prefer Swordmasters over Heroes.

Sure, Heroes have 1-2 range better than Swordmasters and yes, Sol can like give them more durability but Swordmasters have more skill which means a high chance to hit and their skills are just too deadly that It hardly matters.

 

Really depends on what game you're talking about there.

[Magical Glace]

28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

 

Few doesn't mean bad. It means being underwhelming. And Sure, Camilla Malig Knight is underwhelming but then again, you can change her into better classes.

Vengence bowbreaker for sorcerer. Then Luna and Armored Blow. I can go on.

Ok so I forgot that horse mozu requires waifu to get that. Still isn't saying much when you consider you have very few units who can become snipers in Fates. That being underwhelming makes it a niche thing instead of the point that I'm trying to make and you seem to ignore is that until Echoes, Snipers were just worthless to me.

How tf is Malig Knight Camilla underwhelming?  She's like, the best unit in the game even if you don't reclass her to Wyvern Lord.  Why are you so fixated on how many of the class you get?  Not getting many doesn't affect the strengths of the class for those who do get it.

Vengeance and Luna are procs, therefore much less consistent than the Sniper skillset.  You can't rely on proc skills the same way you can rely on Certain Blow, Bowfaire, and Quick Draw.  Making a strategy that reliant on chance is a pretty bad strategy.

[Benice]

Not sure if this in unpopular, but the Lyn mode units should start with 5 levels from their Lyn base if Lyn mode was skipped, that way you don't have to slog throigh the 4 hour tutorial just because you want most of your earlygame units to be decent. Or something that buffs them, I'm no good at balancing units. Point is, they're just so horrendously bad if Lyn mode was skipped.

If there is a remake, I do hope they make skipping Lyn mode more viable and make it possible to skip on first runs.

[starburst]

5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I mean in Fates we do have 2 Samurai/Swordmaster who kinda go into that direction, no? Hana who is a glass cannon – so much so I´d unironically argue she´d do better as a Sniper or a Ninja, ANYTHING that doesn´t put her on the frontline. And then there´s Hinata, who is not particularly fast/strong but fairly tanky for a Samurai/Swordmaster. Granted there is Ryoma who is not as primed for offense as Hana, nor as tanky as Hinata but combines both of their traits in one unit and puts a personal weapon on top of it as well as a pretty good Personal Skill.

First, the argument started with "traditional Sword Masters [...]"
Second, in the citation, "Otherwise" made reference to "but for a Sword Master to shine the game must have enemies with particularly low accuracy or outright crappy statistics."

The three examples that you give are not "traditional", not even by (large) stretching. Hanna has more Strength than a General, which is not how you would ever describe a Sword Master. Hinata's growths have nothing to do with his class; and Ryoma is, by design, an overpowered unit with an overpowered sword with overpowered skills and bonuses only available to him, specifically created to help new users deal with an already easy game with crappy enemies.
Re-class Kaze into a Sword Master. That is a traditional one.

 

5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

… A class is bad because there´s so few of them? Well, excuse me then, obviously Malig Knight is bad because you only get one in Fates. /s

Name a few skills that are better than +40 Accuracy on Attack, +4 Damage on Attack or +5 Damage when using Bows regardless of attacking/defending and are available to one single class.

Also, other advantages please, unless they only boil down to MOAR MOVE and NOT 2 RANGE-LOCKED.

 

2 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

How tf is Malig Knight Camilla underwhelming?  She's like, the best unit in the game even if you don't reclass her to Wyvern Lord.  Why are you so fixated on how many of the class you get?  Not getting many doesn't affect the strengths of the class for those who do get it.

Vengeance and Luna are procs, therefore much less consistent than the Sniper skillset.  You can't rely on proc skills the same way you can rely on Certain Blow, Bowfaire, and Quick Draw.  Making a strategy that reliant on chance is a pretty bad strategy.

One can describe all the colours to a blind, and yet a stubborn person will fail to see the blue in the sky.

You just keep on taking the bait.

[ping]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I wouldn't call Ike that much of a departure from other lords. FE lords typically get based on either Marth or Hector, and Ike very neatly falls into the Hector camp. He's rather conventional despite being a commoner. 

Yeah, Ike's whole demeanour is pretty much a straight continuation from Hector and Ephraim. Rough, but not malicious; not exactly thrilled at the prospect of being a noble; not exactly book smart and more interested in physical prowess.

He's unique in that he occupies a similar spot in the story as Ogma and Deke, which means that he's technically fighting for somebody else's behalf throughout FE9 and 10 (at least until the time freeze). Roy is in a similar situation, although with different reasons, for the second half of FE6 where he fights for Etruria, but otherwise, the lords are always the (or at least an) actual leader or heir of their homeland.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Just as a little reminder/disclaimer: I am solely talking about Fates, and within Fates mostly Conquest, since that´s the game I´m most familiar with.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Few doesn't mean bad. It means being underwhelming.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Still isn't saying much when you consider you have very few units who can become snipers in Fates. That being underwhelming makes it a niche thing

So, do I understand you correctly, that you are underwhelmed with the amount of Snipers that you get, which makes them a niche thing?

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

And Sure, Camilla Malig Knight is underwhelming but then again, you can change her into better classes.

This is w/e to me. I personally prefer WL Camilla for reasons of having her be a bit more focused on STR/DEF, but then again MK Camilla also comes in guns blazing in her join chapter - so whether or not she´s underwhelming in that class is something I´d put in the up for discussion folder.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Vengence bowbreaker for sorcerer. Then Luna and Armored Blow. I can go on.

Then I ask that you go on. Big LOL at Vengeance on a Sorcerer. Yeah let that frail Mage walk around at low HP, so that maybe you´ll deal more damage. Bowbreaker is nice I suppose, but I know not how good it is when faced with enemies that basically don´t suffer from it cause of Certain Blow (admittedly I don´t know the Skill line-up of lategame Snipers). Then again you might just encounter Adventurers – being a somewhat resistant class, magic damage may end up not so fantastic, or Kinshi Knights, who again it might work against, except Kinshi´s too are resistant if memory serves and might just carry a Naginata to slap you with.

Luna isn´t worth talking about. I shall only speak from my very own, extremely personal experience, but I prefer the confirmed kill, even better when in AS so there´s no retaliation, where I don´t need the enemy to die based on my LUCK.

Armored Blow is nice I suppose. Unless you miss your target. Or get debuffed for the next enemy phase. Or get hit by Grisly wounds. 

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

instead of the point that I'm trying to make and you seem to ignore is that until Echoes, Snipers were just worthless to me.

On 4/17/2020 at 6:50 PM, Harvey said:

And no, I've never used a Sniper

Go figure.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Imuabicus
None of the quotes above that say they are from Jotari are from him. All quotes in this post are taken directly from Harveys posts, and i can´t figure out to make this right.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, ping said:

Yeah, Ike's whole demeanour is pretty much a straight continuation from Hector and Ephraim. Rough, but not malicious; not exactly thrilled at the prospect of being a noble; not exactly book smart and more interested in physical prowess.

He's unique in that he occupies a similar spot in the story as Ogma and Deke, which means that he's technically fighting for somebody else's behalf throughout FE9 and 10 (at least until the time freeze). Roy is in a similar situation, although with different reasons, for the second half of FE6 where he fights for Etruria, but otherwise, the lords are always the (or at least an) actual leader or heir of their homeland.

I'd add Alm to that list too.

[AnonymousSpeed]

10 hours ago, Benice said:

If there is a remake, I do hope they make skipping Lyn mode more viable and make it possible to skip on first runs.

This would be great, for sure. If you skip it, the bonus levels for Lyn mode units should give Dorcas +2 base speed.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I'd add Alm to that list too.

I'd assume this is Shadows of Valentia Alm, specifically. I haven't played through the original Gaiden. In Shadows of Valentia though, most definitely.

***

I honestly kind of prefer the Marth-type lords.

***

People are right to give the Avatars crap. It's obnoxious that only evil people take issue with them, while the rest of the characters constantly pander to and praise them. However, it's really not a "new" problem in Fire Emblem, that was already how characters like Lyn and Sigurd were handled.

Don't get me wrong, Sigurd is leaps and bounds about Lyn and Corrin in terms of being competently written, since he actually has to deal with consequences of his actions, but Gen1 still follows a trend of bad, corrupt people hating Sigurd while good, pure people love him.

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'd assume this is Shadows of Valentia Alm, specifically. I haven't played through the original Gaiden. In Shadows of Valentia though, most definitely.

I'd say he's much rougher in Gaiden, at least with what can be gleamed from minimalist dialogue. The affectionate "grandfather" he uses for Mycen in Shadows of Valentia is rendered as "gramps" in Gaiden (at least according to the Fan Translation, which I assume is correct). But even that aside, much like Ike he definitely falls into the category of fighting for someone else. And even like Ike he coincidentally ends up invading his own ancestral homeland without realizing it.

[Harvey]

 

11 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

So, do I understand you correctly, that you are underwhelmed with the amount of Snipers that you get, which makes them a niche thing?

 

Yes. Its a niche thing similar to how swordmasters are niche in FE6 due to having only two of them in the entire game with the first one being way better than the other one.

11 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Then I ask that you go on

Ok. You want better skills than sniper. Alright.

Malig Knight: Trample savage blow.

Swordmaster: Vantage and Astra

Oni Savage: Deathblow Shove Counter

Mechanist: Golembane replicate

Adventurer: Lucky Seven Pass

Dark Knight: Lifetaker

Outlaw: Locktouch 

Any more than this? 

 

[GenealogyOfTheHolyValflame]

Unpopular opinion: most of these opinions are not unpopular

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, GenealogyOfTheHolyValflame said:

Unpopular opinion: most of these opinions are not unpopular

Including yours.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

12 hours ago, Harvey said:

Yes. Its a niche thing similar to how swordmasters are niche in FE6 due to having only two of them in the entire game with the first one being way better than the other one.

I haven´t played FE 6 so your comparison goes a bit over my head. However, this doesn´t have anything to do with your original remark, which is:

Quote

If it’s one thing that I'm greatful about Gaiden/Echoes is that Snipers are very useful compared to all entries before 3H. Had FE2 not showed up, Snipers would be the same worthless class like how its always been.

Actually, now that I read it again, I´m not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you thankful for Echoes version of Archers, or the original FE2? And what do Echoes Archers have to do with Three Houses Archers, except for increased range and Brave Effect weapon arts?

And, this in respect exclusively to Fates again, why/how can you consider a class worthless if you haven´t used them for a, to me at least, weird reason? At the very least one should have experienced what they are talking about, no?

12 hours ago, Harvey said:

Ok. You want better skills than sniper. Alright. Malig Knight: Trample savage blow. / Swordmaster: Vantage and Astra / Oni Savage: Deathblow Shove Counter / Mechanist: Golembane replicate / Adventurer: Lucky Seven Pass / Dark Knight: Lifetaker / Outlaw: Locktouch  Any more than this? 

Trample is Bowfaire, but with a condition. Then again, I guess it doesn´t rely on weapon type.

Savage Blow is situational, I imagine in the context of a defensive approach less so than an offensive one, at best and certainly doesn´t beat Certain Blow.

Procc skills (offensive as well as defensive) aren’t worth it. Nice to have? Sure. Reliable? No. (Unless you somehow get 100% procc rate, which I think is only possible with Miracle!Midori?) The only one I´ll cut some slack is Sol. Since it enhances Xanders/Ryomas survivability and is also good to have on Master Ninjas, if we are talking actual builds.

Vantage is a skill that may shine in the context of a build for a character. Standing on it´s own it´s incredibly meh, as it doesn´t activate when differing weapon ranges are at play, and it being meaningful would require the unit to kill the attacker in one hit. Considering enemy stats, the potential for accuracy issues, the variety and number of enemy ranges, it´s just meh.

Golembane is undeniable nice to have. For the 2 chapters it´ll be useful in: Eternal Stairway, and Iagos Staff Spamming (at the very least in Conquest).

Replicate is the on I´ll hand to you on a 1 on 1 comparison of skills. Individual Sniper Skills don´t beat out +1 unit, though it does come at a risk.

Deathblow see procc skills. Crits are fun, but 100% Crit isn´t possible outside of Mycastle. At the very least as far as I know.

Both versions of Counter. You only get them on units that should theoretically be very strong against the attack damage their skill counters. Oni chieftains SHOULD be tanky, so they´ll take little damage and the same SHOULD go for Great Masters and Priestesses. Also, these skills indicate a very passive/defensive playstyle, which means debuffs and % based damage. Shove see prior comment on Shelter, except it´s worse since there´s no pair-up.

Lifetaker. Just no. As the final touch on a character build sure, it may free up a healer to do damage or something else.

Locktouch, Pass. I mean I see where you are coming from, but Locktouch is all about utility, it hardly helps you killing enemies. It does give you resources (not sure Fates gives you the corresponding number of keys for each maps treasure) and may be useful for Chapter 17, but otherwise, ehhh. As for Pass. I mean… it may allow you to cheese Conquest Endgame on Lunatic, I guess? But Archer/Sniper skills are part of what gets you there.

Lucky Seven. The Hit rate bonus is inferior to Certain Blow, plus it´s on a turn count. I suppose it is in effect even when attacked, but the class that gets it, Adventurer, probably doesn´t appreciate getting hit. Then the part about avoid. Lol. Of the top of my head I can think of two units that could potentially appreciate it. For one Ryoma, since +20 avoid should just barely push him over the avoid threshold for Swords/Tomes, and it will lower Lances/Throwing Weapons chances to hit but dodge tanking may still be considered throwing dice and praying. The only other unit I can see it being a deliberate choice for is a Kitsune kid specifically bred for Avoid purposes, that just ignores a Breaker skill, for an all-around Avoid boost, but again this is talking about the skill in the context of an entire build.

I suppose the skills you mentioned are better than Skill +2, but a firm NO for the +4 on ATK, +5 Bow damage, or +40 Accuracy.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question, since it´s turned into a cherry picking contest, rather than a discussion that has any gameplay relevance. Which class offers a skillset that’s altogether better than the one Sniper has?

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Fire Emblem should take some notes from TRS when it comes to writing villains

Spoiler

TRS gave it's villains actual motivation behind their whole ressurect an evil dragon rather the main villain did it to get his true love back. Not just oh must bring evil dragon back!!

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld

[Benice]

4 minutes ago, PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld said:

Fire Emblem should take some notes from TRS when it comes to writing villains

TRS gave it's villains actual motivation behind their whole ressurect an evil dragon rather the main villain did it to get his true love back. Not just oh must bring evil dragon back!!

Might wanna spoiler that second paragraph

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:26 PM, starburst said:

The three examples that you give are not "traditional", not even by (large) stretching. Hanna has more Strength than a General, which is not how you would ever describe a Sword Master. Hinata's growths have nothing to do with his class; and Ryoma is, by design, an overpowered unit with an overpowered sword with overpowered skills and bonuses only available to him, specifically created to help new users deal with an already easy game with crappy enemies.
Re-class Kaze into a Sword Master. That is a traditional one.

I am well aware of Fates Samurai specifics. However, I mentioned them specifically (more about Hana than Lobster; now that I think about it I don´t even know what to really think about Hinata) in regard to this:

Quote

I would argue that traditional Sword Masters are in a worse situation. You can use them to deliver the last blow (which is a valid niche, I guess, given their high accuracy), but the combination of average Strength and sword's low-might force them to rely on their Speed to deal enough damage and on their Avoid to survive the encounter.
Otherwise, it may be useless on both Player Phase (not enough power) and Enemy Phase (not enough endurance.)

Hana is an extreme. But just look where that got her, the super aggressive Swordmaster who should be able to kill just about anything. She, not just on account of Ryoma existing, is basically ignored and/or tossed on the sidelines/bench, because while her Player Phase is okay to good (in part due to Fates endeavour to improve them “Myrmidons” a bit on account of Duelist Blow) she´s just too extreme.

At the same time, what would the game design philosophy be, when every unit has everything and is great. The game has to set some limits and the easiest and perhaps even best way to do so, is limiting what a unit can do.

On another note, I think it´s exactly units like Hana, Charlotte, Benny, Effie, Kaze etc. who are completely lopsided units that are a metric ton of fun to make work -  assuming the game gives you the tools to do so. I don´t think I would – and keep in mind I haven´t played these games, so all I have is what I saw on streams etc. and read on forums, so do take this with a big grain of salt  - sense of accomplishment when using a unit like Titania, who only seems to need 1-2 range weaponry.