Jump to content
BlackSymphony

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

Recommended Posts

Just now, Von Ithipathachai said:

If we're talking final bosses, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of eldritch monstrosity as one.

Wait…are you suggesting…dropping the Dragon part of the Trope?!

...

…..

…….

what…are you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Wait…are you suggesting…dropping the Dragon part of the Trope?!

...

…..

…….

what…are you?

I don't get it.  All I suggested was that we could swap out the dark dragon for a dark, Cthulhu-esque monster every once in a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I don't get it.  All I suggested was that we could swap out the dark dragon for a dark, Cthulhu-esque monster every once in a while.

Nah, I'm messing around - it's just that so many Fire Emblem games have had a Dragon at the end that sometimes I wonder if a game can even BE a Fire Emblem game if it doesn't end with a Dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SoulWeaver said:

Nah, I'm messing around - it's just that so many Fire Emblem games have had a Dragon at the end that sometimes I wonder if a game can even BE a Fire Emblem game if it doesn't end with a Dragon.

Well...  There's Thracia 776, Sacred Stones, and Radiant Dawn.

Before Shadows of Valentia came around, I thought Duma in Gaiden was just some weird, big, ugly head with a long nose and skinny arms and wings, the side of whose face kept separating.  (That's where I got the eldritch monstrosity idea.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the ratio of Dragon to Non-Dragon final bosses is actually close to 50-50. Would make the list, but first need to determine if to include "They're final bosses if it's not the True Ending", and how to classify exactly those where a dragon is involved, but you don't quite fight one (like, say, Julius).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm pretty sure the ratio of Dragon to Non-Dragon final bosses is actually close to 50-50. Would make the list, but first need to determine if to include "They're final bosses if it's not the True Ending", and how to classify exactly those where a dragon is involved, but you don't quite fight one (like, say, Julius).

1-3: Dragon

4: Man possessed by a dragon

5: A dude

6: Dragon

7: Dragon

8: Literally Satan

9: Man riding a dragon

10: A Goddess

13: A human avatar for a dragon

14: A dragon/Slime monster

Counting FE4 and Fates as 50/50(More like 33/66 for Fates), it comes out to a total of 4 games out of 12 where the dragon doesn't really come into play. Ashnard, Veld, Ashera and Fomortiis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Well...  There's Thracia 776, Sacred Stones, and Radiant Dawn.

Before Shadows of Valentia came around, I thought Duma in Gaiden was just some weird, big, ugly head with a long nose and skinny arms and wings, the side of whose face kept separating.  (That's where I got the eldritch monstrosity idea.)

Yeah, so that makes four, and Gaiden can't count anymore because they retconned Duma into a Dragon. With a total of 17 or so games already out discounting Heroes and splitting Fates into its three pieces, and with SD&BoL, Gaiden, and Mystery of the Emblem all having been remade and thus being discountable, we have 4 games out of 14-ish without a final Dragon(Conquest's isn't a Dragon so it's added to the list to cancel out Gaiden's loss). Like Acacia Sgt. mentioned, though, some of them are only countable under certain circumstances, like how Idunn only ends Binding Blade if you reach the True Ending if I've heard correctly having never played the game myself, or(if you feel inclined to count all of Fates as one game) how the final boss is only a dragon if you played Revelations or Birthright unless you count Birthright's final boss as not a Dragon, so it's possible you can call it different.

Don't get me wrong, though - I'd at least consider a Fire Emblem with an Eldritch Monster as the final boss. Money and how well the game was presented would probably be the deciders, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I would say that there's a difference between a dragon being involved, than the dragon actually being there (for example, Julius is not possessed by Loptyr himself, but rather by an echo of his will/power/whathaveyou; it's the same principle with Lewyn and Forsety, since Forsety himself never returned to Jugdral after he departed with the other 11). But yeah, if we consider the involvements of dragons, of course they count for most of the games.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

they retconned Duma into a Dragon

Considering he was always a god, and 99% of gods in FE are just divine dragons, with the exception of two in particular, I don't think they retconned it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

I've always been kind of bothered by almost all the Einherjar that I've seen in their home games, which admittedly isn't many, but I thought Alm saying it was too late to back down now seemed kind of true to form from what I've heard about him - he seemed like he didn't particularly enjoy fighting but was willing to see it to the end should fighting occur.

The problem is that Awakening Alm takes it way beyond that, advocating that you hurt an enemy tenfold for whatever pain they've caused you and being incredulous that you can show compassion to your enemies, none of which match up with the characterization he got in Gaiden. But I could go on for a while how the Awakening portrayal of Alm (and Celica, to a lesser extent) was inaccurate to Gaiden and metaphorically poisoned the well when it comes to Echoes, so I'll leave it at that.

2 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Then we can begin an Evil Dragon Mech Trope!

So the final boss of TMS, then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, AzureSen said:

To actually bring things back on track, an unpopular opinion: I don't like the Awakening portrayals of Alm or Celica. Aside from my problems with how inaccurate they are to Gaiden among other things, they're also not particularly well-written or interesting.

I think it's a decent enough idea that they did to accomodate for the lack of character the two had, although I don't think I would've enjoyed either of them in an actual game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Nah, Roy's late promotion is one of the bigger issues with this game. A lot of complaints come from the fact that he falls behind a lot due to late promotion. I personally remedy that a bit with the Boots but even then, it's not a full solution. 

By that logic, then even the late promotion for Hector in Eliwood in FE7 would also be a problem right? Well quite frankly no and its because that FE7 gives you so many good units that it really isn't an issue to deal with atleast for me.

Fe6...yeah even if Roy promotes earlier, you still have to deal with a bunch of crap units until around the late game. The only five good units you get are Rutger, Dieck, Alance and Lugh and that's pretty much what you should rely on until you start getting Milady and Percival which happens so late in the game. I didn't mention Sue and Shin because as good as they are, grinding them causes you to go to the Sacae route which is harder than the Ilia route.

So no..Roy's early promotion can't really fix FE6's issues.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

While i like that the maps fit like pieces of a puzzle if you place them over the map of Jugdral, i despise how big they are. It makes getting from point A to point B feel like a slog. This is why i believe that Genealogy of the Holy War has the worst map design in the entire series. I'd rather have Awakening and SoV's bland maps. Hell, i'd rather have Revelation's gimmicky maps. Ch.7 in Genealogy of the Holy War is the worst map in the entire series. Desert maps are terrible. Here's one that's huge. It's also filled with Fenrir-casting Druids. Fenrir has a range of 3-10 in this game. Have fun.

I can reasonably agree that not everyone would like those...long maps. I will also admit that they can drag at times.

But no...the Fenir druids atleast in FE4 aren't really that threatening as you make them sound. Have Shannan with the Balmung or Ares and you can do just fine.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

This game also has terrible unit balance. The way it works is, units who have either a mount, a Holy Weapon (and by extension, Holy Blood), or the Pursuit Skill are automatically better than units who don't have that. Granted, most characters, especially those in the 2nd Gen, have Holy Blood, but they are still inferior to those who have Holy Blood AND a mount.

Not really. Brigid is a better bow user than Mildr because of her holy blood. Infact...nearly all your units end up having holy blood in 2nd gen. 

As for unit balance, I think this video here sums it up.

The rest of your criticism for FE4 is reasonable actually so I'm not going to argue with you on that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roy's late promotion isn't the largest issue since you have lots of other good and higher leveled units besides him and still probably lots of status boosts in the inventory for him before chapter 22.
The terrible weapon balance is the biggest problem of this game.

FE6 isn't the only game with bad promotion time.
Sothe and especially Micaiah usually never hit level 20 before their third tier promotion. In HM you probably want to save your bexp. for other (better) units.
In FE7 the sidelords also promote too late imo.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

The terrible weapon balance is the biggest problem of this game.

While I can agree that Roy's late promotion isn't the main problem, how is weapon balance the big problem here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's basically known, and you even stated it several times, that FE6 is "Sword Emblem". Axes's and lances's take an accuracy nerf compared to other games. This disadvantages several classes like knights and locked axe users. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

It's basically known, and you even stated it several times, that FE6 is "Sword Emblem". Axes's and lances's take an accuracy nerf compared to other games. This disadvantages several classes like knights and locked axe users. 

 

Yeah true but isn't the low skill growth for many units also part of the problem?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Harvey said:

By that logic, then even the late promotion for Hector in Eliwood in FE7 would also be a problem right?

Well, you see, Eliwood and Hector are both probably better units than Roy (Hector certainly, don't know about Eliwood).

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

Fe6...yeah even if Roy promotes earlier, you still have to deal with a bunch of crap units until around the late game. The only five good units you get are Rutger, Dieck, Alance and Lugh and that's pretty much what you should rely on until you start getting Milady and Percival which happens so late in the game.

I think you're underestimating a lot of Binding Blade units. You aren't getting through the game with just five units, even if they are good.

Also, i never used Allan or Lance. I was able to get through the game just fine.

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

But no...the Fenir druids atleast in FE4 aren't really that threatening as you make them sound. Have Shannan with the Balmung or Ares and you can do just fine.

Normally, they aren't. But i was referring to their appearance in the desert map. You know, the map that makes FE4 even more of a slog than it already is?

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

Brigid is a better bow user than Mildr because of her holy blood.

Exactly. Mildr doesn't have Holy Blood so he's not as good as Brigid. A character having Holy Blood just means they are a superhuman. He's got a pony, so he's not completely useless. But then, Jamake has neither a horse, nor Holy Blood, so he automatically ends up being worse than them.

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

nearly all your units end up having holy blood in 2nd gen.

Yes, i stated that before.

But then there's Hannibal, a 2nd Gen unit, who sucks because no Holy Blood and he's an Armor and Armors are absolute shit in FE4.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Well, you see, Eliwood and Hector are both probably better units than Roy (Hector certainly, don't know about Eliwood).

That still doesn't give the excuse that Roy's promotion can fix the game's issue. Sure, Roy's early promotion may help gamers to take him more seriously(myself included) but that still won't fix the other issues that the game has particularly the weapon accuracy.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I think you're underestimating a lot of Binding Blade units. You aren't getting through the game with just five units, even if they are good.

Also, i never used Allan or Lance. I was able to get through the game just fine.

FE6 for as far as I'm aware is made so that your are forced to use specific units even if you don't like them. I can't picture an average gamer or a casual gamer who can find no issues beating the first half of the game without using Rutger because otherwise, I'd like to see someone who managed to kill off Henning(the insane boss in chapter 8x) without using Rutger, Dieck, Jerrot and Marcus. 

Fire Emblem generally doesn't force you to use units whom you don't like to use unless when it comes to lords in which case, they will be forced due to them being the main heroes throughout the entire plot. But FE6 wants you to use Rutger. It wants you to use Marcus in Hard Mode and it especially wants you to find some room for those units that are not doing what you expect them to do. What FE6 doesn't want you to do is using axe units because of their horrible hit rates.

You may have beaten the game fine but RNG always creates different playstyles and since games today are trying to focus on appealing to all types of gamers with different skill levels, FE6 is more or less a niche game which did surprisingly well for what it is. A game atleast imo needs to appeal to all gamers with different skill levels and that's what I really like about FE7 is that it fixes all the issues that I have with FE6.

Which is sad because like I said earlier, I quite like it. It has some of the most best settings in an FE game especially the western isles section, has  no major plotholes and it has the most creative map design. But because its made on a handheld, the idea of long maps alongside with some questionable design choices makes the game not the best but not the worst type game which is again a bit sad because I want this game to be known enough that Nintendo/IS will do an Echoes version of it someday.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Exactly. Mildr doesn't have Holy Blood so he's not as good as Brigid. A character having Holy Blood just means they are a superhuman. He's got a pony, so he's not completely useless. But then, Jamake has neither a horse, nor Holy Blood, so he automatically ends up being worse than them.

The problem is that you just said that every mounted unit ends up better than a foot unit which is not entirely true. Ayra, Jamake, Holyn, Shannan Lewyn and so on are valuable units that you get. The only downside to them is their low movement but you can fix this by using a leg ring i think its called? It won't give the same move as horse units but it should be good enough for their mobility.

The idea of armor units in FE4 is so they can defend your castle to the point enough that you can defeat those attacking your castle and nothing else. They were not made to kill someone off like Arion.

 

And with this, I'm not going to bother any further.

 

Edited by Harvey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The idea of armor units in FE4 is so they can defend your castle to the point enough that you can defeat those attacking your castle and nothing else. They were not made to kill someone off like Arion

Tbh enemy units reaching the base castle doesn't happen most of the time. At least for me it doesn't.

 

14 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The problem is that you just said that every mounted unit ends up better than a foot unit which is not entirely true. Ayra, Jamake, Holyn, Shannan Lewyn and so on are valuable units that you get. The only downside to them is their low movement but you can fix this by using a leg ring i think its called? It won't give the same move as horse units but it should be good enough for their mobility.

The low mobility is rather a big disadvantage for even the foot units due to the huge maps. Unless you don't care for turncounts or just want to take your time with the game, foot units are likely to reach enemy units by the time the mounted units defeated most of them. Not to mention that it can get tedious to stop progressing in the game just so the footies can catch up.

Not saying the footies are useless (as units like Lewyn, Ayra e.t.c. are definitely valuable), but it's understandable as to why mounted units are often considered better than them, even if their stats are crappier.

Also, iirc you only get one leg ring in the game, though giving it to a footie is a good idea. Sylvia also exists to refresh the units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, familyplayer said:

Does FE9 count? Or FE5? Though, in some ways, it still is related to gods, in both, and in dragons, for FE9.

I guess it could count if you want to look at it that way, but I was thinking we could have a finale driven solely by something like political interests, conflicting ideologys, or perhaps revenge. A good example of what I'm visualizing could be taking the concept of Lyn's prologue in FE7 only fleshed out and blown up in a full game(other than that the fact that it's a tutorial). I feel Fire Emblem could be a great series to have personal human drama stories as the main plot, but I guess determining the fate of the world is just tradition at this point so who knows if we'll ever see a change of pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Oh don't worry - this started like 7 pages ago when Harvey said his unpopular opinion was not being able to understand how people could complain about Echoes/Gaiden having bland maps but misworded it so it looked like him just spouting off, Armagon and some other guy tried to explain but accidentally made it look like they were telling him he was wrong, Harvey tried to defend himself but made it look like trying to start a fight and it's been on and off ever since with people joining in and leaving as they please, you can just ignore it at this point, most of us do by now. To Armagon's credit, he did leave Harvey alone after a while, but it restarted fairly recently, and other people have been after him too.

Oh, okay. I guess I'll do that from now on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I'd like to see someone who managed to kill off Henning(the insane boss in chapter 8x) without using Rutger, Dieck, Jerrot and Marcus

The fuck? He's not "insane". The boss of Ch.8 is harder (and Ch.9's boss is risky because of that crit rate). Any swordie will take care of him, not just the ones you've mentioned. If he isn't using his Hand Axe, you can use a Mage or Archer as well.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

FE6 for as far as I'm aware is made so that your are forced to use specific units even if you don't like them.

I don't know who told you that but FE6 doesn't force you to use anyone besides Roy (and Fae in the final two chapters).

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

But FE6 wants you to use Rutger

Not really. Rutger is good but the game isn't unplayable without him. 

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

What FE6 doesn't want you to do is using axe units because of their horrible hit rates.

I mean, Geese is pretty decent.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

A game atleast imo needs to appeal to all gamers with different skill levels

While true, it can't always be the case. Some games will just inheriantly be harder than others. Some gamers have different tastes in games. It's impossible to appeal to everybody.

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Ayra, Jamake, Holyn, Shannan Lewyn and so on are valuable units that you get. The only downside to them is their low movement

Exactly. They are good, but their mobility sucks, and because of the map's size, these units will end up falling behind a lot. They may be good at combat, but they can't fight if it takes them decades just to reach the battlefield. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok now for my next one...I'm a bit worried about Fire Emblem Warriors as of now.

For one, there's barely any hype for it and even if there is, the other problem is how as of now, there doesn't seem to be any effort into marketing this game. Sure, trailers are there but that's just it.

Its not even close to that marketing quality that Awakening/Fates had...this in my opinion worries me to some extent.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Berkut is not necessarily a bad villain but he's overrated and I don't get why everyone's hyping up his voice actor so damn much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Ok now for my next one...I'm a bit worried about Fire Emblem Warriors as of now.

For one, there's barely any hype for it and even if there is, the other problem is how as of now, there doesn't seem to be any effort into marketing this game. Sure, trailers are there but that's just it.

Its not even close to that marketing quality that Awakening/Fates had...this in my opinion worries me to some extent.

 

I don't think that would be an unpopular opinion. The fanbase has reacted pretty negatively to a lot of news coming out and the marketing is weird so I think the majority of people would be a little wary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...