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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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19 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

When Binding Blade exists, I personally couldn't say that Blazing Blade is the weakest. FE6 is plagued by awful hit rates, an abundance of weak units, and ambush spawns.

While I also prefer Blazing over Binding, I do want to say that its gameplay elements aren't necessarily devoid of merit. Lower hit rates, for example, mean that myrmidons and swordmasters' niche is actually super important because they can take advantage of enemy's hit rates (which is why Rutger is one  of the better myrmidons in the series) and make bosses consistent challenges because throne bonuses are great in that system. I'd also say that enemies are in general a lot more threatening than in Blazing. 

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1 minute ago, Alistair said:

While I also prefer Blazing over Binding, I do want to say that its gameplay elements aren't necessarily devoid of merit. Lower hit rates, for example, mean that myrmidons and swordmasters' niche is actually super important because they can take advantage of enemy's hit rates (which is why Rutger is one  of the better myrmidons in the series) and make bosses consistent challenges because throne bonuses are great in that system. I'd also say that enemies are in general a lot more threatening than in Blazing. 

That's a fair point. FE6 isn't all bad, but it does have some major issues that I just can't get past.

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Just wanna point out here that different people are just plain bothered (or not) by different things, so it's not necessarily about who is or isn't "right" about a given game as much as just, one person is really bothered by some aspect of it that another person is totally okay with.

Like, a lot of people hate EarthBound Beginnings because of how grindy and directionless it can be compared to the rest of the series, but I love it a lot not because I think those things aren't true of it but because they just don't bother me, at least nowhere close to enough to outweigh everything that appeals to me about the game. Conversely, I really just don't care for how Monster Hunter controls at all but I acknowledge that that's a totally subjective thing and I don't think it's a bad game objectively or that people are dumb for liking it just because how the player character controls doesn't jive with me, specifically.

It's okay to just have different tastes in media and aspects thereof from someone else and just leave it at that! Discussions like this really don't have to devolve into who's "right" or "wrong" about what's being talked about.

Edited by Topaz Light

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31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Another unpopular opinion time. If any game is put on an undue pedestal it's Blazing Blade. Not a terrible game, but it's the weakest of the Gameboy titles.

I'M NOT ALONE ANYMORE!

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

When Binding Blade exists, I personally couldn't say that Blazing Blade is the weakest. FE6 is plagued by awful hit rates, an abundance of weak units, and ambush spawns.

FE6 is much harder than FE7-that's not a design flaw. Enemy units are more powerful than most player units. FE7 is an enemy-phase based game-You send a bulky unit into the scrum with a hand axe/javelin and they take out enemies that way. FE6 is a player phased game-Enemies are closer to the player in terms of power of units, if not stronger. For example, FE6 HM in particular, even the bulkiest units won't survive many enemy wyvern knights-Wyvern knights have to be taken out on player phase, before they can wreak havoc. This actually allows archers to be useful for once without needing insane range. A variety of units are needed to complete FE6 whereas FE7 is beaten by paladins with hand axes. Granted,  ambush spawns suck, but overall it is a much better designed game in terms of map design-For one, you don't have a unit who can practically solo the whole game from the first map.

Other things I count against FE7:

Oh boy, I'd actually best spoiler this. It got rantier than I wanted it to...

  1. Spoiler

     

    1. Lyn mode is forced on a first playthrough and is really boring.
    2. I have gotten farther into HHM than my LP suggests (but Shh, don't tell anyone) and holy cow has the map design fallen off. Cog of destiny...That's so bad it's inexcusable. A rout map with over 50 enemies, seven movement enemies with 20 magic and status staves, siege tomes, reinforcement spam...It's got it all. That's just...Wow. Wooow. Even ignoring the worst maps, the game tends to just spam weak sauce enemy units at you and it's really mindless. This is, in my opinion, the worst part about FE7-almost all of the maps since Genesis have been Flier spam-the map-Battle Before Dawn being the exception.
    3. Nergal is a really horribad villain in every imaginable way. Jahn and Zephiel aren't great, but Nergal is worse.
    4. It's not ironman-friendly at all-If Florina dies in Eliwood normal mode, then you don't get any pegasus riders. FE6 is much better this way-If Dieck dies, you've got Ogier, who is an inferior but still solid unit. If Rutger dies, you've got Fir who is an inferior but solid unit. If Allance died/Are bad, you have Noreck, who are inferior but still solid and can still early promote. If Bors sucks, then you've also got Barthe and Wendy to do so too! Point is, you get lots of replacement units who are perfectly serviceable.

     

     

In a nutshell, FE6 is a much clunkier game with worse QoL and seems much more dated than FE7. However, FE6 HM is a really fun challenge that pushes you to the limit-and you learn a lot too. I can say for a fact that FE6 HM made me much better as a player, even if I'm still no good.

@twilitfalchion, I would actually recommend that you try HM for a little bit, because it's a totally different game than NM and it may surprise you-It certainly shocked me. (I can send you a save file or you could get one from the FE6 succession run.)

I found Normal Mode okay, but fell head over heels for HM. Different units shine, and many are much better- Rutger, (digustang, but also the third best unit in the game and is great if you want some cheese) Shin, (who is absolutely bonkers good-doubles everything, has really good growths, and is in a good class) Fir, Milady, etc. I'd also actually argue that in a way, Lilina is better in HM because her insane magic allows her to OHKO wyvern knights with aircalibur-Something no other mage can do on average, I think, and it's super valuable. (Hugh might be able to also, lemme check.) Deke and Marcus also become really important.

And if you do, watch out for earlygame nomads. They're mean.

Anyways, I guess that this is my daily rant against FE7 and praise FE6 quote fufilled in one post! Nice!

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33 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Y’know what I think I’m done shouting at a brick wall. You believe what you wanna believe all right. I for one will choose to judge stories on their own merits without comparing them and complaining about pointless things like unoriginality.  Like why do you all feel the need to compare shit. Each story is different and each story has its own ways of conveying its ideas and it bothers me when people say one way is better than another. God it just bothers me when people talk down the power of friendship because whenever people do it’s usually cause they don’t understand what it means or it’s place in the narrative. Not every story is gonna use it in the same way like with any idea or trope.The bolded portion in particular just angers me because it sounds condescending.

I can’t speak for FE 4 but I doubt it uses the power of friendship the same way awakening does. Based on interviews with Kaga the reason Sigurd died in the first place was because he was being narratively punished for being too naive and trusting which is why it works. Robin in contrast fails due to lack of trust and belief. Come on people it’s just a matter of nuance

Because Three Houses is an atavism. While it does carry over several character tropes from Awakening and Fates, it has also heavily curtailed many of the more fanservicey elements found in Awakening and Fates’ art style and tone. I’m actually shocked by some of the narrative choices made in TH, for it harkens back to the Jugdral saga more so then the 3DS era of FE. Tonal consistency is incredibly important in a series as old as Fire Emblem Ottservia. I don’t expect The Black Company to produce a light hearted romp and I don’t expect to find in a Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser book a grimdark and hopeless story for this very reason. While the newer games shouldn’t be chained to the point of stagnation over this concept, it is important not to allow the artists to go overboard as well. That’s what leads to TMS # FE, a game that has nothing to do with FE, SMT and Persona despite being a crossover. Even in Awakening the tonal inconsistency from the main game and the Future Past is quite staggering. Awakening was necessary for IS to save FE and now that it has its influence over the series has started to wane. As of March the of this year, TH has sold something like 2.87 million units and at this point maybe it has become the best selling mainline FE game of all time. I hope that TH’s influences continues to help shape the series’s identity in the future.

Edited by Wraith

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41 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Tbh, getting angry about someone else's thoughts and insulting them is completely unreasonable and unnecessary. If someone wants to compare two games in the same series, then they're perfectly entitled to do so, regardless of whether or not they're condescending about it. I don't have a problem if you disagree. That's fine. But don't be so intolerant of other people's ideas and how they present them. This isn't my discussion, but having an attitude like that isn't conducive for healthy debate.

You think I’m intolerant to other people’s ideas? I’m not in fact I’d consider myself the opposite end of that extreme. What bothers me most is when people down play a story’s ideas because they don’t personally agree with it. Like or dislike whatever you want but don’t say a story is bad simply because you don’t like it or vice versa. just because you don’t like or agree with the message of a given that doesn’t make it bad. Every story has something to say and we shouldn’t downplay those ideas simply because they’re “unrealistic” or “too lighthearted” or whatever. People are allowed to tell whatever stories they want who are you or I to tell them otherwise. I’m just here to judge whether or not they tell that story with any form of depth or nuance. Any theme or idea in a story is a valid one worth telling to some degree regardless of anyone’s personal preferences.
 

My problem with comparison really is that essentially people are just comparing apples to oranges. You can’t compare the two stories like that because that ignores the subtle nuances that make them different. Awakening was never trying to be FE4. It may have used similar plot points but each story uses those plot points differently. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. It’s just not possible because at the end of the day they are different stories with different goals and ideas. And beyond that, I am tired of people throwing one story under the bus to praise another. You shouldn’t have to do that. If something is genuinely praise worthy you shouldn’t have to say everything else is worse just to make it look good.

not to say Comprison is entirely a bad thing cause it can lead to interesting discussion but praising something for being different is just hollow to me. I just feel we should praise things on their own merits is all

23 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Because Three Houses is an atavism. While it does carry over several character tropes from Awakening and Fates, it has also heavily curtailed many of the more fanservicey elements found in Awakening and Fates’ art style and tone. I’m actually shocked by some of the narrative choices made in TH, for it harkens back to the Jugdral saga more so then the 3DS era of FE. Tonal consistency is incredibly important in a series as old as Fire Emblem Ottservia. I don’t expect The Black Company to produce a light hearted romp and I don’t expect Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser to have a grimdark and hopeless story within the series for this very reason. While the newer games shouldn’t be chained to the point of stagnation over this concept, it is important not to allow the artists to go overboard as well. That’s what leads to TMS # FE, a game that has nothing to do with FE, SMT and Persona despite being a crossover. Even in Awakening the tonal shift from the main game and the Future Past is quite staggering. Awakening was necessary for IS to save FE and now that it has its influence over the series has started to wane. As of March the of this year, TH has sold something like 2.87 million units and at this point maybe it has become the best selling mainline FE game of all time. I hope that TH’s influences continues to help shape the series’s identity in the future.

And that’s a fine opinion to have. I for one disagree but whatever. What I don’t like is when you go and downplay the stories of awakening, fates, and TMS just because they aren’t what you personally want out of this franchise. It’s fine to be disappointed and it’s fine to voice those disappointments but don’t say something is bad simply because you don’t like it or it’s not what you wanted. Stories should be criticized on their own merits and on the message it wants tell not the message you want it to tell. To say otherwise is to deny all the possible ways stories can be told. I don’t care if you don’t like it but don’t downplay it because you do. There is no such thing as a correct way to tell a story and it bothers me when people remotely suggest otherwise.

 

23 minutes ago, Wraith said:

That’s what leads to TMS # FE, a game that has nothing to do with FE, SMT and Persona despite being a crossover. 

And that makes the game bad because? Oh right it doesn’t. Like I said feel however you want about TMS but it’s not a bad game because it’s not what you wanted. How hard is it to judge something based on its own merits? What bothers me most about it is who gave you the right to decide what is and isn’t Fire Emblem? The devs can do whatever they want with this franchise. I’ll admit it’s a bit of a gray area as there are instances where fan backlash is somewhat justified like with Banjo Kazooie and Paper Mario to a much lesser extent. But still that don’t make those games bad for not being what the fans wanted.

Edited by Ottservia

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16 minutes ago, Benice said:

I'M NOT ALONE ANYMORE!

FE6 is much harder than FE7-that's not a design flaw. Enemy units are more powerful than most player units. FE7 is an enemy-phase based game-You send a bulky unit into the scrum with a hand axe/javelin and they take out enemies that way. FE6 is a player phased game-Enemies are closer to the player in terms of power of units, if not stronger. For example, FE6 HM in particular, even the bulkiest units won't survive many enemy wyvern knights-Wyvern knights have to be taken out on player phase, before they can wreak havoc. This actually allows archers to be useful for once without needing insane range. A variety of units are needed to complete FE6 whereas FE7 is beaten by paladins with hand axes. Granted,  ambush spawns suck, but overall it is a much better designed game in terms of map design-For one, you don't have a unit who can practically solo the whole game from the first map.

Other things I count against FE7:

Oh boy, I'd actually best spoiler this. It got rantier than I wanted it to...

  1.   Reveal hidden contents

     

    1. Lyn mode is forced on a first playthrough and is really boring.
    2. I have gotten farther into HHM than my LP suggests (but Shh, don't tell anyone) and holy cow has the map design fallen off. Cog of destiny...That's so bad it's inexcusable. A rout map with over 50 enemies, seven movement enemies with 20 magic and status staves, siege tomes, reinforcement spam...It's got it all. That's just...Wow. Wooow. Even ignoring the worst maps, the game tends to just spam weak sauce enemy units at you and it's really mindless. This is, in my opinion, the worst part about FE7-almost all of the maps since Genesis have been Flier spam-the map-Battle Before Dawn being the exception.
    3. Nergal is a really horribad villain in every imaginable way. Jahn and Zephiel aren't great, but Nergal is worse.
    4. It's not ironman-friendly at all-If Florina dies in Eliwood normal mode, then you don't get any pegasus riders. FE6 is much better this way-If Dieck dies, you've got Ogier, who is an inferior but still solid unit. If Rutger dies, you've got Fir who is an inferior but solid unit. If Allance died/Are bad, you have Noreck, who are inferior but still solid and can still early promote. If Bors sucks, then you've also got Barthe and Wendy to do so too! Point is, you get lots of replacement units who are perfectly serviceable.

     

     

In a nutshell, FE6 is a much clunkier game with worse QoL and seems much more dated than FE7. However, FE6 HM is a really fun challenge that pushes you to the limit-and you learn a lot too. I can say for a fact that FE6 HM made me much better as a player, even if I'm still no good.

@twilitfalchion, I would actually recommend that you try HM for a little bit, because it's a totally different game than NM and it may surprise you-It certainly shocked me. (I can send you a save file or you could get one from the FE6 succession run.)

I found Normal Mode okay, but fell head over heels for HM. Different units shine, and many are much better- Rutger, (digustang, but also the third best unit in the game and is great if you want some cheese) Shin, (who is absolutely bonkers good-doubles everything, has really good growths, and is in a good class) Fir, Milady, etc. I'd also actually argue that in a way, Lilina is better in HM because her insane magic allows her to OHKO wyvern knights with aircalibur-Something no other mage can do on average, I think, and it's super valuable. (Hugh might be able to also, lemme check.) Deke and Marcus also become really important.

And if you do, watch out for earlygame nomads. They're mean.

Anyways, I guess that this is my daily rant against FE7 and praise FE6 quote fufilled in one post! Nice!

Thanks for the recommendation. I probably won't come back to FE6 (unless we get a remake), but I appreciate how you love the game so much. It's nice to see each game have its own passionate fans.

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3 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Thanks for the recommendation. I probably won't come back to FE6 (unless we get a remake), but I appreciate how you love the game so much. It's nice to see each game have its own passionate fans.

vnLfVfx.jpg

9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

And that makes the game bad because? Oh right it doesn’t. Like I said feel however you want about TMS but it’s not a bad game because it’s not what you wanted. How hard is it to judge something based on its own merits?

Bro, he just said that he thinks TMS#FE is a bad game. In his opinion it lacks the qualities a good game needs. In your opinion fates' plot is good because it has the qualities a plot needs in YOUR opinion. It's just an opinion for both things.

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42 minutes ago, Benice said:

I'M NOT ALONE ANYMORE!

Not you too, Benice!

27 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

And that makes the game bad because? Oh right it doesn’t. Like I said feel however you want about TMS but it’s not a bad game because it’s not what you wanted. How hard is it to judge something based on its own merits?

Because what I expected was an SMT x FE crossover, and after the first trailer at least a Persona x FE crossover. What I got was a game that over egged the puddling to the point of parody the whole ‘bonds of friendship’ and high school students saving the world tropes found in Persona. A new IP is relatively free of the encumbrance of pre-existing expectations based on previous entries in its series. Had TMS # FE been a new IP, I wouldn’t burn it in effigy every night. However, being first pitch as a SMT x FE crossover game and then as a new crossover game based upon Atlus’ success with Persona, and not delivering on either of these counts, TMS # FE sadly loses this coveted ability to be judged in a vacuum based on its own merits.

Edited by Wraith

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3 minutes ago, Benice said:

Bro, he just said that he thinks TMS#FE is a bad game. In his opinion it lacks the qualities a good game needs. In your opinion fates' plot is good because it has the qualities a plot needs in YOUR opinion. It's just an opinion for both things.

That’s a straw man because that’s not what I’m arguing. His arguments against TMS basically boils down to “it’s too anime” or “it’s not Fire Emblem” which are terrible arguments because 1. What’s so wrong about it having an anime aesthetic and leaning on anime tropes? Oh no a Japanese game has an artstyle reminiscient of popular Japanese media who would’ve guessed?! And 2. Who gave him the authority to decide what does or doesn’t belong in this franchise? 

 

Just now, Wraith said:

Because what I expected was an SMT x FE crossover, and after the first trailer at least a Persona x FE. What I got was a game that over egged the puddling to the point of parody with the whole ‘bonds of friendship’ and high school students saving the world tropes found in Persona.  A new IP is relatively free of the encumbered of pre-existing expectations based on previous entries in its series. Had TMS # FE been a new IP, I wouldn’t burn it in effigy every night. However, being first pitch as a SMT x FE crossover game and then as a new crossover game based upon Atlus’ success with Persona, and not delivering on either of these counts, TMS # FE sadly loses this coveted ability to be judged in a vacuum based on its own merits.

And there’s my issue with your argument. TMS is not a bad game because it’s not what you were expecting. It’s perfectly fine to not like TMS let me make that clear but just because it’s not something you wanted that doesn’t make it bad. If you don’t like it then that’s fine but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong in this franchise or that it’s objectively terrible because it doesn’t suit your personal tastes. 

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11 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

That’s a straw man because that’s not what I’m arguing. His arguments against TMS basically boils down to “it’s too anime” or “it’s not Fire Emblem” which are terrible arguments because 1. What’s so wrong about it having an anime aesthetic and leaning on anime tropes? Oh no a Japanese game has an artstyle reminiscient of popular Japanese media who would’ve guessed?! And 2. Who gave him the authority to decide what does or doesn’t belong in this franchise? 

That's the problem. You're saying that his judgments about those games are invalid because you deem the judgments to be bad. They're his opinions and he is entitled to feel and express those very opinions that you clearly disagree with. It's not about whether he has any authority about what does or doesn't belong in FE. It's the fact that he has certain thoughts about it (he dislikes TMS#FE for his own reasons, so what) and chose to present those thoughts in a public forum where people should be able to discuss things in a civil, reasonable way. Right now, you're very obviously not being civil nor reasonable if you choose to show such blatant disdain for someone exercising their free speech.

Edited by twilitfalchion

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28 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

And there’s my issue with your argument. TMS is not a bad game because it’s not what you were expecting. It’s perfectly fine to not like TMS let me make that clear but just because it’s not something you wanted that doesn’t make it bad. If you don’t like it then that’s fine but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong in this franchise or that it’s objectively terrible because it doesn’t suit your personal tastes. 

It lacks the nuanced character growth and interpersonal story telling of Persona, or Fire Emblem. It relies on cheap gaudy visuals to make up for a lackluster story and boring world building that wouldn’t be out of place in a Z list anime. While it’s graphics and music are good, there seems to be one immutable rule about JRPGs. Good graphics and music does not a great JRPG make, for they live and die by their stories. A JRPG needs a good story and characters to carry a player through its 20+ hour quest. It works well in games like Persona and FE because the developers took the time to craft it. Atlus used their budget to make a game that had professionally done J-Pop music and nothing else. The battling is fine because it took the press turn system from SMT which had been worked on for over a decade. It sold like crap on the Wii U and sold like crap again on the Switch for these reasons and many more. It didn’t reach the vast majority of the audience it was marketed towards because of confusion and disbelief. If Atlus didn’t want to court comparisons, favorable or unfavorable, to other series, they shouldn’t have included FE characters and plot details along with marketing it as a game that incorporates the elements of Atlus’ traditional RPGs (a.k.a. Persona).

Edited by Wraith

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24 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

His arguments against TMS basically boils down to “it’s too anime” or “it’s not Fire Emblem” which are terrible arguments

So he's objectively not allowed to dislike TMS#FE for the things that bother him?

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1 minute ago, twilitfalchion said:

That's the problem. You're saying that his judgments about those games are invalid because you deem the judgments to be bad. They're his opinions and he is entitled to feel and express those very opinions that you clearly disagree with. It's not about whether he has any authority about what does or doesn't belong in FE. It's the fact that he has certain thoughts about it (he dislikes TMS#FE for his own reasons, so what) and chose to present those thoughts in a public forum where people should be able to discuss things in a civil, reasonable way. Right now, you're very obviously not being civil nor reasonable if you choose to show such blatant disdain for someone exercising their free speech.

Once again this is a straw man. I am not saying he is not allowed to dislike TMS!!!! When did I ever say that? I have stated numerous times that it’s fine to dislike anything for whatever reason but when you present a bad argument then I am allowed to criticize it. You can’t just make a poor argument then go “lol opinions” as some kind of defense to criticism of your argument. If you say something stupid then I am allowed to call you out for saying something stupid. That’s how it works. Like by your logic debates just aren’t allowed to happen because it’s all just opinion. Like what if I made the argument that I dunno Edelgard is a bad character because she is directly responsible for killing Jeralt when no that didn’t happen. Like it’s an opinion to say that I don’t like Edelgard but it’s when I try to justify it with straight up incorrect information that it’s just not okay.

again your opinion is not a shield for saying something stupid. It’s fine to have an opinion but it’s when you try to justify it with supposed facts and argumentative reasoning then I and others are allowed to criticize those facts and reasoning for being poor.  

13 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It lacks the nuanced character growth and interpersonal story telling of Persona, or Fire Emblem. It relies on cheap gaudy visuals to make up for a lackluster story and boring world building that wouldn’t be out of place in a Z list anime. While it’s graphics and music are good, there seems to be one immutable rule about JRPGs. Good graphics and music does not a great JRPG make, for they live and die by their stories. A JRPG needs a good story and characters to carry a player through its 20+ hour quest. It works well in games like Persona and FE because the developers took the time to craft it. Atlus used their budget to make a game that had professionally done J-Pop music and nothing else. The battling is fine because it took the press turn system from SMT which had been worked on for over a decade. It sold like crap on the Wii U and sold like crap on the Switch for these reasons and many more. It did reach the vast majority of the audience it was marketed towards because of confusion and disbelief. If Atlus didn’t want to court comparison, favorable or unfavorable, to other series, they shouldn’t have included FE characters and plot details along with marketing it as a game that incorporates the elements of Atlus’ traditional RPGs (a.k.a. Persona).

Okay fair enough then. I haven’t played TMS myself so I can’t really argue as to it’s overall quality 

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Because Three Houses is an atavism. While it does carry over several character tropes from Awakening and Fates, it has also heavily curtailed many of the more fanservicey elements found in Awakening and Fates’ art style and tone. I’m actually shocked by some of the narrative choices made in TH, for it harkens back to the Jugdral saga more so then the 3DS era of FE. Tonal consistency is incredibly important in a series as old as Fire Emblem Ottservia. I don’t expect The Black Company to produce a light hearted romp and I don’t expect to find in a Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser book a grimdark and hopeless story for this very reason. While the newer games shouldn’t be chained to the point of stagnation over this concept, it is important not to allow the artists to go overboard as well. That’s what leads to TMS # FE, a game that has nothing to do with FE, SMT and Persona despite being a crossover. Even in Awakening the tonal inconsistency from the main game and the Future Past is quite staggering. Awakening was necessary for IS to save FE and now that it has its influence over the series has started to wane. As of March the of this year, TH has sold something like 2.87 million units and at this point maybe it has become the best selling mainline FE game of all time. I hope that TH’s influences continues to help shape the series’s identity in the future.

It's highly likely not the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time. That title likely belongs to a future title that hasn't been made yet.

Unrelated Fire Emblem unpopular opinion, it annoys me to an unrealistic degree when people say all time when they mean in history. It is hyperbole to an utterly ridiculous degree and people do t even realize they do it.

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2 hours ago, Wraith said:

As of March the of this year, TH has sold something like 2.87 million units and at this point maybe it has become the best selling mainline FE game of all time. I hope that TH’s influences continues to help shape the series’s identity in the future.

And I do hope that your prescient powers fail you, for Four Houses is the worst Fire Emblem game that I have tried. The farther we go from here, the merrier.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's highly likely not the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time. That title likely belongs to a future title that hasn't been made yet.

Unrelated Fire Emblem unpopular opinion, it annoys me to an unrealistic degree when people say all time when they mean in history. It is hyperbole to an utterly ridiculous degree and people do t even realize they do it.

Alright then it’ll probably end up being the best selling mainline FE currently available.

6 hours ago, starburst said:

And I do hope that your prescient powers fail you, for Three Houses is the worst Fire Emblem game that I have tried. The farther we go from here, the merrier.

How so? Is it the fact that it feels more like Persona and less like FE because of the school setting and the in game calendar year? I myself have actually had a hard time getting into TH, despite having it for almost a year now.

Edited by Wraith

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42 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Alright then it’ll probably end up being the best selling mainline FE currently available.

How so? Is it the fact that it feels more like Persona and less like FE because of the school setting and the in game calendar year? I myself have actually had a hard time getting into TH, despite having it for almost a year now.

Well for me personally, it's more of the fact the school adds very little, we've actually had similar "training" mechanics in Jagged Alliance 2 (released in 1999), except in that game you didn't need to spend hours stuck in a base just to get to a new battle, (And battles actually last a decent time in JA2, while any battle so far in TH ends way too soon to be worth the wait in the Monestary.) It also had a leadership stat, which effected how good a unit was at teaching other units (since units could either train alone or you could get a unit who was better at that thing to help train them.) and a Morale system. (Which can be basically summed up as "Motivation but it effects more stuff than just training.", So two units who are friends fighting together? they'll get higher hit-rates and Perform most actions such as sneaking/healing better but if someone's friend dies they'll be gloomy for a while and generally perform worse and maybe even quit if it gets low enough, it even had death reactions for any units who were friends/lovers/family.)

JA2 basically does what TH seeks to add better and with much less wasted time in menus/running around, If I want to train dudes in JA2 , I open up a quick menu, use a few mouse clicks and that's it, they're training and its' hands-off til' I want them back, I train in TH and I constantly click units then Press A to Praise which takes more clicks. (Also Press A to Praise is pretty much as bad as "Press X to pay Respects.")

The school basically just wastes your time with pointless busy work even when other games have shown how similar mechanics could actually be done alot more faster and more in-depth/better, I have played 3H for over 3 hours, I have less than a single hour of actual game time spent in battles, so it's a slog to just get into a single battle which is then over too quickly, I can set aside an hour to play and I'm lucky so far if I actually get into a battle.

 

(Also not a fan of the story/cutscene direction, the characters or basically any change so far honestly, like making Thunder discount fire and the visuals are kinda awful.)

Edited by Samz707

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4 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Well for me personally, it's more of the fact the school adds very little, we've actually had similar "training" mechanics in Jagged Alliance 2 (released in 1999), except in that game you didn't need to spend hours stuck in a base just to get to a new battle, (And battles actually last a decent time in JA2, while any battle so far in TH ends way too soon to be worth the wait in the Monestary.)

Huh, I’ve never heard of Jagged Alliance 2. Is it any good?

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28 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Huh, I’ve never heard of Jagged Alliance 2. Is it any good?

It's very different (It's a game about hiring mercenaries to liberate a Banana Republic and I guess is a bit like the 2D fallouts if they had more in-depth combat mechanics and not a whole lot of roleplaying, there is a demo floating around online, it's good but very unforgiving.) but my point was that it gives similar (And I'd argue, actually better.) training mechanics and it doesn't take hours to get into a battle.

Also instead of getting Battalions (Which were extremely underwhelming when it turned out they were just special attacks and not actually extra units, which I felt was kinda lazy.), you trained up the local populace to help fight back (So you essentially trained green units using the training mechanic.), it's still kinda meh (You can only use them to defend locations since there's a territory mechanic instead of being able to recruit them into your playable forces, at least not without mods so they're essentially just extra green units on defend maps.) but it's closer to what I think Battalions should have been. (extra forces that are generic dudes instead of a glorified special attack and stats boost.)

The fact it was made in 1999 only serves to kinda make me even more annoyed with 3H, since it's new mechanics (That I feel were done extremely poorly) were done better, by a probably smaller game studio, a long while ago on their second attempt (JA1 did have training but no morale system and even then it was just having a Unit not fight in the current day for a small increase in stats, the ability to have other units teach skills to other units was added in JA2 as well as the Morale mechanics.), I don't mind the odd small unpolished mechanic but when the entire selling point of your game feels more hollow than a game that actually had it more as an aside thing, it sorta makes me just want to play that game instead for a training units mechanic.

(In addition to 3H taking it sweet time actually letting you get to a fight, then taking it's sweet time to let you get into a next fight.)

 

Edited by Samz707

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6 hours ago, Wraith said:

How so? Is it the fact that it feels more like Persona and less like FE because of the school setting and the in game calendar year? I myself have actually had a hard time getting into TH, despite having it for almost a year now.

There is almost nothing positive that I can say about Four Houses, from its presentation to is gameplay, and it is probably not worth repeating it all. But I agree with various points mentioned by Samz707.
I too have a hard time getting into Four Houses, and I did not even pay for it. Hopefully, the next game will have a different direction. As I said, the farther we go from what we got, the greater the chance that I may like it.

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I think FE needs to approach the naming of its difficulty levels a bit differently. Instead of calling the beginner difficulty "normal," it makes more sense to call it "easy," since that is the logical difficulty for those new to any game series to choose. Likewise, "hard" should be called "normal," as it's described in most FE games as "for experienced players." Normal FE players would be prepared for a difficulty like this because it's not their first FE game; they're ready to handle some challenge. And lunatic (or its equivalent) should be called "hard" because by its nature a hard mode in any game is tailored for advanced players looking for a serious test of skill.

Edited by twilitfalchion

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7 hours ago, starburst said:

There is almost nothing positive that I can say about Four Houses, from its presentation to is gameplay, and it is probably not worth repeating it all. But I agree with various points mentioned by Samz707.
I too have a hard time getting into Four Houses, and I did not even pay for it. Hopefully, the next game will have a different direction. As I said, the farther we go from what we got, the greater the chance that I may like it.

Agreed wholeheartedly. The near unanimous praise it got at launch and to a lesser extent even to this day terrified me for the future of the franchise, because it managed to systematically strip the series of damned near everything I love about it.

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2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

I think FE needs to approach the naming of its difficulty levels a bit differently. Instead of calling the beginner difficulty "normal," it makes more sense to call it "easy," since that is the logical difficulty for those new to any game series to choose. Likewise, "hard" should be called "normal," as it's described in most FE games as "for experienced players." Normal FE players would be prepared for a difficulty like this because it's not their first FE game; they're ready to handle some challenge. And lunatic (or its equivalent) should be called "hard" because by its nature a hard mode in any game is tailored for advanced players looking for a serious test of skill.

Reminds me of Starbucks order sizes, which are three different words for big. Goddamnit my brain isn't so simple as to think I'm getting a better deal if you call the smallest size tall. I want a small hot chocolate!

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. The near unanimous praise it got at launch and to a lesser extent even to this day terrified me for the future of the franchise, because it managed to systematically strip the series of damned near everything I love about it.

I like Three Houses, but I am very keenly aware of its flaws and I was pretty confident that the backlash against it would come slowly, but eventually. And I think in that regard I'm being proven more right every day. While we're ragging on Three Houses I'll throw out one of my more unpopular opinions on it.

 

The writing of Three Houses is in no way better than Awakening or Fates. You (hypothetical person who likes Three House's story) only think it is because the writing is more tailored to your tastes (that is to say it is more mature). This does not automatically make it better as a literary work and as a body of writing it has some massive flaws on par with that of Fates and Awakening.

Edited by Jotari

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22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The writing of Three Houses is in no way better than Awakening or Fates. You (hypothetical person who likes Three House's story) only think it is because the writing is more tailored to your tastes (that is to say it is more mature). This does not automatically make it better as a literary work and as a body of writing it has some massive flaws on par with that of Fates and Awakening.

To add on to this point, the reason why TH (and SoV) are praised for its storytelling is partly due to the fact that it's fully voice acted. The voice acting helps the player to develop an emotional response much easier than reading the text themselves. I can't really explain it clearly but it's similar to why many people turn to audiobooks in real life instead of physical books. The content is the same but audiobook makes it seem that the book is 10x more interesting which makes it 'better'. 

People give a lot of crap for Fates and its bad villains but I think TWSITD is way more absurd.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. The near unanimous praise it got at launch and to a lesser extent even to this day terrified me for the future of the franchise, because it managed to systematically strip the series of damned near everything I love about it.

I love playing ironman runs for FE games and it really saddened me when TH actively punishes you for losing units in 3 of the 4 routes.

In addition to that, part of the reason why FE games are fun to replay for me is because each playthrough I can choose different characters to use and unlock new supports through that. TH actively discourages that by giving you a predetermined group of characters depending on which house you choose but also allowing you to view supports between students from different houses if you wish to. Honestly the 'replayability' in TH seems forced because of the route split and I hate the fact that I had to replay the first half of the game four freaking times to get the full story.

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