What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

44 minutes ago, Samven said:

 

Oh, I certainly agree on the Fire Dragon getting very hyped up for somewhat-arbitrary reasons.  I'm certainly not saying that I think that was the game's best idea.

I do, however, think that it's still very possible for dragons to take over.  Just because they need to use dragonstones does not mean that they aren't still powerful.  Powerful in bursts, perhaps, but a good strategist could work around that rather easily.  You could use wave attacks; sending in one squad to attack with their stones while another recoups and regains their strength or something.  Sort of like what Oda Nobunaga did with rifles, only with dragons.  That's just the most obvious example that I can think of on the top of my head.

There's also the fact that humans are far more divided now than they seem to have been during the war.  The current nations were founded after the Scouring, which to me at least implies that humanity was much more unified in the past.  Now, though, the bonds of brotherhood that once united the species just aren't there in the same way.  A big part of The Binding Blade's story is that it didn't take a whole lot of effort for Bern to divide and conquer the other countries because a large portion of them were thinking about themselves rather than their countries.  If Roy hadn't stepped up to lead the resistance, Bern would have won that war.

Even then, recognising that, "the continent could be reduced to ash" doesn't necessarily mean that humans are going to win.  Pyrrhic victories are also possible: humans could win, but all their infighting and squabbling during the opening months/years could give the dragons so much of a head-start that success comes at an incredible cost.  I'd argue that we have a pretty good model for that in real life to compare the situation to.  The planet is as close to being literally on fire as it can be without the sun imploding, thanks to climate change, and yet so many powerful leaders and governments are still doing the square root of nothing about it.  Not without first asking the question of, "But what do we get out of it?"  Even if we do manage to turn the tide of this particular fight, at this point it's not going to come without cost.

This is assuming a lot of organisation and a very willfully intent from the dragons that were effectively the refugees of the last war. I'd also point out that Roy and co successfully manage to fight dragons and humans combined in the previous game and won. Bern was not able to take over the world in a month even with its dragons. Now one might say War Dragons are weaker than pure blood dragons which, well I'd like to believe that but I don't think it's actually supported anywhere in either game (if it is, please tell me) and even if they are, war dragon production was still able to turn the tide in favor of the dragons before the Legendary Weapons were created. So the War Dragons are hella useful, yet still not strong enough to ravage the continent in a single month (and yes, Roy had some legendary weapons with him, but only a grand total of two the first time they fought a war dragon and there are still legendary weapons left on the continent in the event that Athos and the lords fail). The dragons would certainly  cause a bit of damage if they went on the offensive, but from what we know of in both games, it really doesn't seem like it would be anything on the scale of what Athos is talking about.

17 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this one is usually blown a bit out of proportion. Going from memory Eliwood and co meet Nergal three times before the final battle. 

-One of them is the Dragon Gate where Nergal can't kill the party because he's got a knife sticking out of his back. 
-The second one is where Nergal comes to nab Ninian or Nils. At the end he does accomplish that and takes off with Ninian. She surrenders himself on the explicit condition he leaves the others alone which Nergal considers a fine enough arrangement. Now Nergal double crossing that deal and Athos really putting a stop to that would probably be more interesting but its fine as is. 
-The third time is when Nergal comes to gloat about Ninian's death. When Athos engages him he claims to spare the group because Athos is his old buddy and out of respect for that past friendship he'll spare them. Not the greatest reason in the world but its a reason. 

So the criticism that Nergal just repeatedly leaves his enemies alive for the lulz does lack a bit of nuance. The three times he spares the party there are at least reasons for why he might have done so. 

Just letting the Heroes wander around while you could have killed them is a time honored Fire Emblem tradition anyway. Gharnef could have easily snuffed out Marth in Khadein but he didn't, and unlike Nergal he didn't have a reason for letting Marth of the hook. In fact it resulted in Mart taking his personal fiefdom, the one so important to Gharnef that not being given dominion of it is what caused him to become crazy in the first place. We also have Julius repeatedly warping on the battlefield at a time where Seliph has neither Tyrfring nor Naga. He could have easily destroyed the rebels after saving Ishtar or Arion. In Binding Blade Zephiel had no particular reason to just leave the battlefield after defeating Cecillia and Narcian of course repeatedly can't be bothered to fight Roy. The Black Knight even makes it a point to keep Ike alive precisely so he can fight him for the lulz when Ike has grown strong enough. 

Fire Emblem is a series where the main villains are often all powerful and able to teleport right in front of the heroes if they desired. Its a bit selective to hold it against Nergal in particular. 

I think for Nergal specifically it stems almost entirely from the moment when Athos launches a Forblaze at Nergal and it does squat. It basically establishes Nergal as invincible and able to travel anywhere, and he does have a motive for killing the heroes to collect their quintessence (the Denning chapter is immediately after the one where Nergal confronts them, right? So it's a case of "I will not kill you out of respect" five minutes later "Come to my island so I can kill you."). Basically Nergal puts the crosshairs on himself much later in the game than the other examples and it can have a retroactive effect of "Why didn't he do that at any other point." I think the whole reason for why they even had that earlier Athos vs Nergal non fight was the same reason we have the discussion about the Fire Dragon. They wanted hype to put the threat of this game on the same level as the other games despite its smaller scale.

Now I want to make it clear I'm not necessarily throwing out this accusation myself (in fact I'd say the Julius example of this trope, particularly with Arion really bothers me), I am playing Devil's Advocate to some extent, but what is true is that Nergal has had this complaint levied at him far more than any other villain in the series, so whether it's a good one or not, there must be a reason for that. Maybe it's, as I said, because it happens much closer to the end game when we're expected to be able to take on these enemies, or maybe it's because it happens after a chapter so it feels like there's no fight at all. Or hell maybe it's even because in the other games you're meant to be a full functioning army while in this one you're a loose rag tag group, but something about Nergal over other villains rubs a certain number of people the wrong way in this matter. What I don't think it is is people being needlessly harsh on Blazing Blade over other titles, because you'll have a cross section of every game in the series where a certain group of the fans rip it to shreds and on the whole I think Blazing Blade is on the mote collectively liked end of the scale than vice versa.

[Benice]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:25 AM, Samven said:

Hmm.  "Moments of iffiness", perhaps, but "holes"?  Hardly. 

Eh, more things such as Nergal and Ephidel standing around while Nils tries to rescue Ninian, the game randomly dropping plot points midway through, (Such as the whole rebellion thing which just...Kinda doesn't matter after Elbert dies? Even though he may have been a part of it?) the thing in Lyn mode where nobody seems to mind that a marquess literally sends assassins to burn the castle of Araphen while the marquess is there, (I get that the marquess hates Lyn, but sending assassins to another marquess should cause problems regardless...) and the Black Fang in general.

On 8/9/2020 at 10:25 AM, Samven said:

It's just a minor mistake.  You can still comprehend 99% of what's happening in FE7.

It kind of undermines his whole character, though. I laugh at Bauker, who seems to have had some errors in translations and confusion with next boss and other little gaffes, but the mistranslation of Nergal's wife's name into quintessence kinda ruins it, as instead of (roughly) saying:

"What? Why did I seek power in the first place? ...Aenir? I don't understand..."

Which shows that he embarked for power to rescue his wife, (which is already heavily implied in 19xx) but lost his mind along the way.

However, he says instead:

"What? Why did I seek power in the first place? ...Quintessence? I don't understand..."

Which shows that he sought power for Power.

Sorry about being so salty, but I'm playing Cog of Destiny right now and I'm losing my mind.

On 8/9/2020 at 10:25 AM, Samven said:

You say that the Black Fang is a plot hole but... why?  Is it because we never heard about them in FE6? 

Nah, it's the fact that it's frequently contradictory towards itself and its leadership is kind of pathetic.

Again, there's Pascal who is notably bad, but there's also Jerme, who is also bloodthirsty, the fact that the pirates in Linus's Four-Fanged-Offense raid the villages despite the whole point of the chapter being that the black fang isn't so bad, Ephidel suddenly losing his ability to teleport the moment it's inconvenient for him to do so,  Nergal not doing the "Opening the dragon's gate" thing even though he had both Ninian and Nils for basically a whole year, etc. And Vaida, who is seriously wack.

[Whisky]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Now one might say War Dragons are weaker than pure blood dragons which, well I'd like to believe that but I don't think it's actually supported anywhere in either game (if it is, please tell me)

This is not supported. Jahn says something along the lines of war dragons not having emotions and their sole purpose is for war, which  doesn't necessarily imply anything but if I had to say which was stronger from that line I would say war dragons. But we do have a reference for a true dragon. Jahn is a true dragon, and he states that he is "a particularly strong dragon". In game, Jahn is stronger than the war dragons that you fight, but not by enough to leave much room for average true dragons to be in between them. If average true dragons were stronger than war dragons, than Jahn could only be considered slightly stronger than an average true dragon, and a true dragon could only be considered slightly stronger than a war dragon. I think the more reasonable assumption is that true dragons and war dragons are about equal.

 

6 hours ago, Samven said:

"This game is the worst game ever and literally killed my son and also it's bad"

That line was copied from the original Plinkett who is known for his Star Wars Prequal videos. The Plinkett Emblem videos were purposely made in the same format and style of the Plinkett star Wars videos. He still makes a lot of good points and does a pretty good job of explaining a lot of the problems in the game throughout the video.

6 hours ago, Samven said:

I was kind of expecting that maybe there was some big massive gaping logic wound that I'd overlooked.  Something on the level of the Blood Pact or Ryoma having spies who can break into Corrin's castle in a parallel universe but not determine why Garon has started the war in the first place.

I certainly recognise when mistakes are made and I don't have any real defence for the localisation staff just making up stuff.  However, when I hear that a game's story is bad-bad, I expect it to be... well... bad.  This one just strikes me as being flawed.  Neither are perfectly, certainly, but the one does not inherently imply the other.

I guess it depends on how much certain stuff bothers you or how much of a writing issue you consider it to be. There are some pretty big flaws.

• The final boss shouldn't even be able to exist, Nils and Ninian lose their powers the moment they come through the gate.
• There is a six month period before the game begins (or in between Lyn Mode and Eliwood Mode I guess) when Nergal had all of the resources he needed to summon dragons (which is his primary goal that he is trying to do for the entire game) but he just doesn't for no reason.
• Everything about Ephidel. Why is he in Lycia? What is he trying to do? What are his goals? 
• The Black Fang (the main antagonist group of the game) is very inconsistent, including things like Pascal being one of the Four Fangs despite being a corrupt noble that the Black Fang was known to kill.
• The timeline of when Nino and Jaffar join the Black Fang not making sense.
• Massive battles taking place right in front of Bern's palace and Bern's highly protected Shrine of Seals but no one from Bern ever finds out about these battles, and no one from this game telling Roy anything about the events of this game.
• The Zephiel assassination plot being retconned from how it was stated to have happened in FE6.
• A lot of little inconsistencies in almost every other chapter.
• And of course Nergal making very stupid decisions including not killing his enemies when he apparently easily could. The last time before the final battle that Nergal meets with the heroes, he went there to get Nils, but then he just leaves Nils there for no reason, and also he doesn't kill the heroes. Nergal is shown to be basically all powerful, he can teleport, he can create entire armies of morphs, he can create explosions that could kill the entire group if he wanted to (but he doesn't want to for some reason (even though he has been trying to kill them both before and after this)), he is nearly invincible to legendary weapons (but then isn't later even though he shouldn't be any weaker). The guy can teleport, he could easily accomplish his goals whenever he wants by just teleporting where ever he needs to and he occasionally does teleport right in front of the heroes, proving that he can teleport anywhere at anytime.

FE7 is supposedly a game that establishes the characters better than most FE games, but the more you learn about each of the characters, the more inconsistencies you will find with many of them. 

I don't think any FE game is flawless, but I don't think most other FE games have the number of flaws or (at least for the most part) the severity of flaws. Would I call it "bad" overall? I don't know, I don't really care about overall labels, I'm more interested in pointing out and discussing each individual point, each individual flaw. If we agree on every flaw that the game had, and you conclude that it's still could despite those flaws, then I'm fine with that. I do think that it has more flaws than most FE games though. As far as I know, Binding Blade only has a few flaws, not nearly as many as FE7. Same for Sacred Stones and POR. I am open to and interested in discussing each flaw in FE7 to see if there is a good explanation for them and perhaps they aren't actually flaws, as well as any flaws in FE6 (or 8 ) that you might have noticed that I didn't.

 

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this one is usually blown a bit out of proportion. Going from memory Eliwood and co meet Nergal three times before the final battle. 

-One of them is the Dragon Gate where Nergal can't kill the party because he's got a knife sticking out of his back. 

The situation surrounding this is actually pretty weird. Nergal was incompetent at restraining Elbert, for him to get out of his bonds and stab Nergal, and no one around was able to stop him from stabbing him. Also even if Nergal couldn't do anything himself, there is no reason that Jaffar and Ephidel couldn't have killed the party. Jaffar leaves in the middle of the cutscene, and Ephidel gets blown up by the dragon even though he can teleport.

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The second one is where Nergal comes to nab Ninian or Nils. At the end he does accomplish that and takes off with Ninian. She surrenders himself on the explicit condition he leaves the others alone which Nergal considers a fine enough arrangement. Now Nergal double crossing that deal and Athos really putting a stop to that would probably be more interesting but its fine as is. 

Nergal takes Ninian and leaves which is fine, but this highlights the fact that Nergal really can do what ever he wants whenever he wants by teleporting anywhere at any time and no one, not even Athos, can do anything to stop him. It's also weird that Ninian agrees to go with him, since if Nergal's plan succeeds, the good guys would have lost. There's a reason they are trying to stop him.

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The third time is when Nergal comes to gloat about Ninian's death. When Athos engages him he claims to spare the group because Athos is his old buddy and out of respect for that past friendship he'll spare them. Not the greatest reason in the world but its a reason. 

This scene has other problems such as Nergal being nigh invincible in this scene but then being vulnerable later, the fact that he's powerful enough to create an explosion powerful enough to kill the entire group including Athos but chooses not to "out of respect for an old friend" even though he was trying to kill the group the whole time before this and continues to try to kill them after this. He also should still have the power to kill everyone including Athos when you fight him later, and he doesn't have an excuse for it then. The biggest problem with this scene is that he specifically came here for Nils but then leaves without Nils. How did he plan to summon dragons without Nils then?

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So the criticism that Nergal just repeatedly leaves his enemies alive for the lulz does lack a bit of nuance. The three times he spares the party there are at least reasons for why he might have done so. 

These scenes, in addition to having their own problems, highlight that Nergal is basically all powerful, including being able to teleport where ever he wants at anytime and everyone including Athos is powerless to do anything to stop him. He literally teleports right in front of the party multiple times, and they can't do anything against him, but these are the only two times that he does it. He doesn't do nearly as much as he could throughout the game to accomplish his goals, which include killing the heroes. He explicitly says that he wants Eliwood dead at one point but forgets that he wanted him dead later?

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fire Emblem is a series where the main villains are often all powerful and able to teleport right in front of the heroes if they desired. Its a bit selective to hold it against Nergal in particular. 

That's deflection. Just because something is commonly done doesn't make it any better. Other FE games have flaws too, that doesn't make it okay here, and I really think it's at its worst in this game in particular. Nergal is basically shown to be all powerful, being able to teleport anywhere, being nearly invincible, being able to create entire armies of powerful morphs and teleport them inside of Ostia caste, being able to kill the entire party at once including Athos. 

I don't know enough about Gharnef to defend him but I have seen arguments for why he is done better than Nergal.

Zephiel doesn't really give a reason for leaving the battle during Chapter 13, I'm happy to say that this is a flaw in FE6, but I think it's a much smaller flaw for Zephiel (a normal human that can't teleport) to leave here without even encountering Roy, then it is for Nergal to literally teleport in front of the group multiple times and not do anything. Narcian is well established. He is a coward. He doesn't want to risk his life fighting the heroes, who are potentially capable of killing him. He leaves Flaer here to fight them so that he can prepare his defenses at Aquelia. Narcian running away is not a writing flaw, at least not in this chapter. There might be an argument for why he doesn't defeat them earlier like in Chapter 4.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Whisky

[Whisky]

44 minutes ago, Benice said:

the thing in Lyn mode where nobody seems to mind that a marquess literally sends assassins to burn the castle of Araphen while the marquess is there, (I get that the marquess hates Lyn, but sending assassins to another marquess should cause problems regardless...)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That is particularly weird. Araphen is the second biggest territory in Lycia, but Araphen is incapable of defending themselves from some Caelin assailants without Lyn's help? What is Lundgren even trying to accomplish here? Shouldn't he be worried about Araphen retaliating?

44 minutes ago, Benice said:

I laugh at Bauker, who seems to have had some errors in translations and confusion with next boss

What are the issues with Bauker? I didn't realize there were any. Bernard says that he's impressed that the heroes defeated Bauker.

47 minutes ago, Benice said:

the fact that the pirates in Linus's Four-Fanged-Offense raid the villages despite the whole point of the chapter being that the black fang isn't so bad

The pirates might not be part of the Black Fang though, or are they stated to be? They could just be pirates taking advantage of the battle.

 

I thought I was editing the previous post. I didn't mean to double post.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Whisky

[Benice]

4 minutes ago, Whisky said:

What are the issues with Bauker? I didn't realize there were any. Bernard says that he's impressed that the heroes defeated Bauker.

I feel like there was some stuff lost in translation with him- First off, a villager calls him a "Gentle man" despite the fact that he says,

"I want to know if we brought down that pegasus knight! If she’s still breathing, make her stop!"

Which doesn't exactly scream gentle. He's also called a Legendary knight (Or something among those lines, I know for certain that he is called Legendary to some capacity) even though he's unpromoted. I'm guessing that the village was supposed to be referring to Bernard, as he is promoted and is gentle, two things that Bauker isn't.

[Whisky]

6 minutes ago, Benice said:

I feel like there was some stuff lost in translation with him- First off, a villager calls him a "Gentle man" despite the fact that he says,

"I want to know if we brought down that pegasus knight! If she’s still breathing, make her stop!"

Which doesn't exactly scream gentle. He's also called a Legendary knight (Or something among those lines, I know for certain that he is called Legendary to some capacity) even though he's unpromoted. I'm guessing that the village was supposed to be referring to Bernard, as he is promoted and is gentle, two things that Bauker isn't.

Good points. There are a lot of translation errors so I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of them. I think the line is that his skill is legendary. Skill with what exactly, I'm not sure. You're right, Bernard does seem to more gentle and he is basically a promoted version of Bauker. Bauker is stronger than other Knights that you've fought so far but he doesn't seem to have anything special about him enough to be called "legendary". He does actually have a higher Skl stat then Bernard if that means anything, but on its own, that's a strange explanation for the line.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Whisky

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Whisky said:

 

• The Zephiel assassination plot being retconned from how it was stated to have happened in FE6.
•  

 

 

I don't think we can take that to be a retcon. Well, it is a retcon in the fact that the entire game is retroactive continuity, but I don't think we're meant to take the plot in this game as a rewrite of what Guinevere describes in Sword of Seals. It happens earlier in the timeline and the Sword of Seals one noticeably succeeds (somewhat) and leaves Zephiel in blinding agony that ends with him killing his father and becoming king. Something really, really major that doesn't happen in Blazing Blade. The simplest explanation is the one that makes the most sense in that there are two separate assassination plots that were never meant to be considered the same event. Everything about them from the method to the timing to the result are different.

[Alastor15243]

On the topic of FE7, as someone who generally enjoyed the story and appreciates the massive step forward it was for the series' storytelling quality, if there was one moment of FE7's story that fills me with white-hot, volcanic rage, it would probably be the aftermath of Battle Before Dawn. I'll just post the moment I realized how fucked up it was during my recent replay:

 

Spoiler

  

On 4/16/2020 at 4:17 PM, Alastor15243 said:

Okay, no way in hell that this is making Hellene want to reconcile with Desmond. He was the one who sent the assassins. There's no conceivable way that she wouldn't be in the mindset to connect the dots like that, even if proof is so limited.

Yeah, actually, playing this again, as an adult, and realizing the implications...

...This is actually kind of fucking disgusting. Hellene feels she is the one in the wrong, completely in the wrong, and is planning on apologizing to Desmond, the man we as the audience know full well tried to murder her son.

This sad and sweet music is playing like this is some great heartwarming moment...

...But it's a fucking tragedy. This isn't a happy ending. We don't even need to know what happens in FE6 to know this is going to end with yet another attempt on Zephiel's life.

Really, if she's going to realize that she's made a horrible mistake, you'd think the epiphany she'd have wouldn't be to reconcile with the boy's awful, murderous father, but to give up on the succession battle entirely. To defect to some other country where her son will be safe, even if it costs her everything she owns and everything she's so jealously tried to gain. To realize that her obsession with the throne has nearly cost her her son's life, not in the sense that it's her fault assassins nearly killed him, but in the sense that he was only in danger because she was too prideful and spoiled to even see the way out as a way out.

But instead, we're treated to a “heartwarming” scene where Hellene resolves to get back together with a man she knows wants her son to die, and that she's willing to kiss the bastard's ass and apologize for nothing in order to do it.

I can't believe I didn't see how fucking awful this scene was as a kid.

Holy shit.

 

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Yo.

Not only do I think FE7 has a bad plot, which basically amounts to walking from point A to point B while constantly being ambushed and never having any idea what's going on...

I don't like the characters either.

I think Lyn and Hector are actually pretty annoying, a couple of petulant little snots. Nergal has one or two overdone-but-mildly-interesting points hidden behind layers of Gaidens and gallons of nonsense. Eliwood is okay, though.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

On the topic of FE7, as someone who generally enjoyed the story and appreciates the massive step forward it was for the series' storytelling quality, if there was one moment of FE7's story that fills me with white-hot, volcanic rage, it would probably be the aftermath of Battle Before Dawn. I'll just post the moment I realized how fucked up it was during my recent replay:

This is a pretty good point to.

I still don't think FE7 had very good quality of storytelling, though. It has more characters saying more things but I don't even get the superficial appeal people say its presentation has.

[Benice]

1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I think Lyn and Hector are actually pretty annoying, a couple of petulant little snots. Nergal has one or two overdone-but-mildly-interesting points hidden behind layers of Gaidens and gallons of nonsense. Eliwood is okay, though.

Bro. This isn't the unpopular facts thread.

2 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I still don't think FE7 had very good quality of storytelling, though. It has more characters saying more things but I don't even get the superficial appeal people say its presentation has.

It does use more CGs and stuff than any other entry to that point, as well as having sad portraits for the lords. I do think that it's not leaps and bounds ahead of everything else, but I do concede that it's better than all previous titles.

---

Having not made it very far into FE9 yet, an unpopular opinion I have is that FE9's plot isn't that great, and the gameplay is straight up bad. (I'm only at chapter 9, but so far every map has boring at best.) Or, in other words, I think FE9 is vastly overrated.

The story isn't BAD, but I don't think it warrants the Best In Series award-The cast is good, but the story doesn't really do anything groundbreaking, and Elincia is basically Eirika but an Est rather than the main lord. Speaking of Main Lords, I don't think that Ike is THAT amazing in comparison to every other lord- I like him, but again, I feel as if he and the plot have been put on a pedestal that I don't think is entirely warranted.

And the gameplay...Wow. It's...Not good. It's really slow, braindead easy and there are way too many enemies who can't do anything to your units! Even Rhys can tank two or three hits if he needs to! Overall, the map design has consisted of "Flood the player with maddening amounts of enemies and insert choke points!" and it hasn't been very interesting yet. It doesn't really help that anything that is necessary to do can be completed by just using Titania.

[Ottservia]

49 minutes ago, Benice said:

The story isn't BAD, but I don't think it warrants the Best In Series award-The cast is good, but the story doesn't really do anything groundbreaking, and Elincia is basically Eirika but an Est rather than the main lord. Speaking of Main Lords, I don't think that Ike is THAT amazing in comparison to every other lord- I like him, but again, I feel as if he and the plot have been put on a pedestal that I don't think is entirely warranted.

If I’m being honest PoR’s story is just pretty generic shounen fare. I’m not complaining personally because I love battle shounen but overall I wouldn’t say it’s amazing or revolutionary. It’s just kinda ok if you ask me

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Bro. This isn't the unpopular facts thread.

It does use more CGs and stuff than any other entry to that point, as well as having sad portraits for the lords. I do think that it's not leaps and bounds ahead of everything else, but I do concede that it's better than all previous titles.

---

Having not made it very far into FE9 yet, an unpopular opinion I have is that FE9's plot isn't that great, and the gameplay is straight up bad. (I'm only at chapter 9, but so far every map has boring at best.) Or, in other words, I think FE9 is vastly overrated.

The story isn't BAD, but I don't think it warrants the Best In Series award-The cast is good, but the story doesn't really do anything groundbreaking, and Elincia is basically Eirika but an Est rather than the main lord. Speaking of Main Lords, I don't think that Ike is THAT amazing in comparison to every other lord- I like him, but again, I feel as if he and the plot have been put on a pedestal that I don't think is entirely warranted.

And the gameplay...Wow. It's...Not good. It's really slow, braindead easy and there are way too many enemies who can't do anything to your units! Even Rhys can tank two or three hits if he needs to! Overall, the map design has consisted of "Flood the player with maddening amounts of enemies and insert choke points!" and it hasn't been very interesting yet. It doesn't really help that anything that is necessary to do can be completed by just using Titania.

Ha. If you're thinking that at Chapter 9 then you're not going to like the rest of the game. It's at its best gameplay wise pre Chapter 9 and all semblance of difficulty drops off a cliff after Ike promotes.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Having not made it very far into FE9 yet, an unpopular opinion I have is that FE9's plot isn't that great, and the gameplay is straight up bad. (I'm only at chapter 9, but so far every map has boring at best.) Or, in other words, I think FE9 is vastly overrated.

The story isn't BAD, but I don't think it warrants the Best In Series award-The cast is good, but the story doesn't really do anything groundbreaking, and Elincia is basically Eirika but an Est rather than the main lord. Speaking of Main Lords, I don't think that Ike is THAT amazing in comparison to every other lord- I like him, but again, I feel as if he and the plot have been put on a pedestal that I don't think is entirely warranted.

And the gameplay...Wow. It's...Not good. It's really slow, braindead easy and there are way too many enemies who can't do anything to your units! Even Rhys can tank two or three hits if he needs to! Overall, the map design has consisted of "Flood the player with maddening amounts of enemies and insert choke points!" and it hasn't been very interesting yet. It doesn't really help that anything that is necessary to do can be completed by just using Titania.

Too easy & slow in gameplay and too safe & boring narratively are the usual criticisms people make of PoR. So you've company on those fronts. Did you never see these criticisms before?

Edited August 12, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Benice]

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Too easy & slow in gameplay and too safe & boring narratively are the usual criticisms people make of PoR. So you've company on those fronts. Did you never see these criticisms before?

No, actually! I thought most people thought it was revolutionary and had among the best gameplay in the series. Huh. Well, now I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ha. If you're thinking that at Chapter 9 then you're not going to like the rest of the game. It's at its best gameplay wise pre Chapter 9 and all semblance of difficulty drops off a cliff after Ike promotes.

E

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Benice said:

No, actually! I thought most people thought it was revolutionary and had among the best gameplay in the series. Huh. Well, now I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

And to be fair, I like going out of my way to find criticisms. For critique can be a good thing, as little in this world is perfect. Also, SF tends to be unusually biased towards Tellius compared to other sites. I found one place where someone got emoji nausea at the mere mention of Tellius.

If you like RD, but PoR not so much, thats fine too. While I love both halves of Tellius and can't choose between them, there are numerous fans, some who enjoy both halves and others who don't, who express a strong preference for PoR or RD. And thats fine, no permutation of FE rankings is impossible, and no one should tell you otherwise. If you love Binding Blade, there may be someone who vomits and asks how? if you add you also like RD, but almost nothing in video game tastes is logically irreconcilable.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Benice said:

No, actually! I thought most people thought it was revolutionary and had among the best gameplay in the series. Huh. Well, now I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

E

Pretty sure even the people who like Path of Radiance don't hold it up as revolutionary. It's kind of well known for being a particularly bad looking game for the Gamecube, visually speaking I mean. The transition to 3D was not considered smooth (though honestly it's not terrible, just of lesser quality to it's peers at the time of its release).

[null]

2 hours ago, Benice said:

No, actually! I thought most people thought it was revolutionary and had among the best gameplay in the series. Huh. Well, now I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Not at all. I love Path of Radiance, but I am well aware of its flaws. The biggest problem I have with it is how bland the map design and boring the actual gameplay is.

I haven't finished Radiant Dawn yet, but I can definitely say that it exceeds Path of Radiance in gameplay alone, if not in story as well. It's a much more challenging and engaging experience, imo, with some of the best maps FE has to offer. You actually have to give a fair bit of effort to not let your units die, and battle saves are amazing to have on the higher difficulties.

[Benice]

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

battle saves are amazing to have on the higher difficulties.

Er...Well... Hard doesn't have battle saves...

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Not at all. I love Path of Radiance, but I am well aware of its flaws. The biggest problem I have with it is how bland the map design and boring the actual gameplay is.

Huh.  Didn't know that.

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

I haven't finished Radiant Dawn yet, but I can definitely say that it exceeds Path of Radiance in gameplay alone, if not in story as well. It's a much more challenging and engaging experience, imo, with some of the best maps FE has to offer

I'd agree, at least for parts 1 and 2, both in story and gameplay-Part 1 is one of my favorite stretches of maps in FE. I find they both diminish somewhat in Part 3. (Then again, I probably think that because I don't like Ike's role in RD and I like weak units...) And Part 4 isn't very good. But parts 1 and 2 totally redeem RD for me, and more. And the music is SO GOOD! The part 3 maps may be boring for me, but the music makes it fun anyways.

I suppose another unpopular opinion is that Ike's role should be greatly dimished if RD got remade-I'd rather have him be a Gotoh to prevent stat screwage and softlocks and so that the plot can focus more on Miccy, Elincia and Sanaki. I dunno, I just feel like he didn't really belong in RD but ended up being omnipotent and became the main protagonist anyways?

[null]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

Er...Well... Hard doesn't have battle saves...

Really? I thought that feature extended to all difficulties. I'm playing on normal myself.

[Benice]

2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Really? I thought that feature extended to all difficulties. I'm playing on normal myself.

Nope. But you do at least get suspend! Although, IMO, hard doesn't sound worth it given that you cannot see enemy ranges at all...

[null]

Just now, Benice said:

Nope. But you do at least get suspend! Although, IMO, hard doesn't sound worth it given that you cannot see enemy ranges at all...

Now the inability to see enemy ranges I had heard of before. That's pretty jank, ngl. Of course, hard mode is actually a maniac/lunatic mode anyway. Normal really is the best balance between being very challenging but still fair, I think at least.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Benice said:

Er...Well... Hard doesn't have battle saves...

Huh.  Didn't know that.

I'd agree, at least for parts 1 and 2, both in story and gameplay-Part 1 is one of my favorite stretches of maps in FE. I find they both diminish somewhat in Part 3. (Then again, I probably think that because I don't like Ike's role in RD and I like weak units...) And Part 4 isn't very good. But parts 1 and 2 totally redeem RD for me, and more. And the music is SO GOOD! The part 3 maps may be boring for me, but the music makes it fun anyways.

I suppose another unpopular opinion is that Ike's role should be greatly dimished if RD got remade-I'd rather have him be a Gotoh to prevent stat screwage and softlocks and so that the plot can focus more on Miccy, Elincia and Sanaki. I dunno, I just feel like he didn't really belong in RD but ended up being omnipotent and became the main protagonist anyways?

There is an exploit for getting battle saves on hard. You can save a suspend state to your SD card and then delete your save data and copy it back if something goes wrong. It's a lengthy process but it can really help for a midbattle save if you're in trouble.

[NaotoUzumaki]

Yeah It might be MY unpopular opinion but I don’t like the direction the series is going. I’m mean Corrin was the child of the Final boss so being a deus ex machina was in her blood. Robin was human puppet for grima. Byleth she is just a empty husk for the player but as a IN CANON AND LOGICAL REASON WHY THEY ARE LIKE THIS SND BECOMES A GOD LITERALLY. Also on Phoenix mode in fates if you played poorly you could get soft locked. In SoV and 3 houses time rewind powers. It negates the strategy aspect since you dont learn from your mistakes. FE was about unit/item management and permanent death meaning you had to strategize. Also in 3h you have lot of money and it makes monastery a chore instead of planning since almost everything can be done in pre battle map

[Venger_06]

• Permadeath holds back the games writing.
• Awakening has one of the best stories in the franchise.
• I don't mind Kris.

[Samz707]

Alm's sorta route in Echoes should actually be somewhat of a standard for future FE games.

Not an exact 1-1 but a single well written route where instead of the protagonist making mistakes outside of the player's control, it actually falls down to the player to save characters (Possibly even including non-playable characters who don't join.) and the plot keeps going if you fail but you lose out on a few rewards and get called out on for letting people die.

Basically replace all the melodrama deaths, that are completely out of the player's control and sometimes basically rely on contrivances and replace them with actually difficult situations where sound planning/prepreparation is needed to save characters where a few mistakes will lead to deaths that are actually your fault and characters will let you know it.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Samz707