What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Etrurian emperor]

7 hours ago, PyroPlazma said:

2. Units that are children (think Sakura and Ricken) have no place in these games, wtf is up with Japan and child soldiers? 

They aren't even nearly the youngest in the grand scheme of things.

I think there's a couple of reasons. Kid nobles like Roy and Sakura is a pretty normal scenario. Historically nobles were expected to be on the battlefield from a very early age. And as far as commoner kid soldiers such as Lugh are concerned we should remember that Fire Emblem always had an anime focus and anime sure like their lolis and shotas.

[null]

Marth, despite the general lack of story featured in his games and their respective remakes, is one of the best written lords in the series. The different emotions he experiences and expresses in Shadow Dragon in particular demonstrate a depth of character that surpasses that of most other FE lords and doesn't typically get recognized, in my experience at least.

He doesn't begin his journey as the ever-humble Hero-King. He's a kid who had his home and family ripped from him, so he becomes vengeful and a bit arrogant about it, driving him forward to reclaim what is rightfully his. It makes him more relatable, despite him being a royal in a fantasy setting, as his reactions parallel what would be the natural human response to similar events happening in someone's life. And because he had to rely on his friends and allies to defeat Medeus the first time around, he is humbled and experiences meaningful character development as a result.

Edited September 6, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Marth, despite the general lack of story featured in his games and their respective remakes, is one of the best written lords in the series. The different emotions he experiences and expresses in Shadow Dragon in particular demonstrate a depth of character that surpasses that of most other FE lords and doesn't typically get recognized, in my experience at least.

He doesn't begin his journey as the ever-humble Hero-King. He's a kid who had his home and family ripped from him, so he becomes vengeful and a bit arrogant about it, driving him forward to reclaim what is rightfully his. It makes him more relatable, despite him being a royal in a fantasy setting, as his reactions parallel what would be the natural human response to similar events happening in someone's life. And because he had to rely on his friends and allies to defeat Medeus the first time around, he is humbled and experiences meaningful character development as a result.

I know people's general opinions of Marth's OVA range from "pretty bad" to "it's just ehhhh", but I think it's really a major shame it was cut short with just two episodes. I like a lot of choices it made in regards to adapting the story and I'm really curious to see how it would have handled later events when the story moved passed the fighting bandits part of Fire Emblem.

[Shrimpica]

12 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

I understand the hesitation with the Nohrian siblings because Corrin was raised with them and recognizes them as family. But Corrin never knew the Hoshidan siblings and is not blood related to them. It makes sense that there would be no awkwardness about it.

Thing is

The game acts the whole time as if they were blood related, only for suddenly that random hidden message to pop up

[null]

12 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Thing is

The game acts the whole time as if they were blood related, only for suddenly that random hidden message to pop up

Depending on how fast you unlock the supports, that message can be seen very early on relative to the player's progress in the story though.

And not being raised alongside other people means that there wouldn't be any kind of bond or connection there. It makes sense that it wouldn't feel so surprising considering how Corrin was just as suddenly told that he was their blood relative in the first place.

Fates's writing has a wealth of issues, I would agree, but that isn't one of them, imo.

Edited September 6, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Shrimpica]

3 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

And not being raised alongside other people means that there wouldn't be any kind of bond or connection there.

dunno man, i think when it comes to incest i find the blood relation to be a much more disgusting factor than knowing each other from when they were young.

 

3 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Fates's writing has a wealth of issues, I would agree, but that isn't one of them, imo.

''we're blood siblings!''
*player wants to bang x*
''actually we are not''

That definetly is one of the many problems

Edited September 6, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Fates's writing has a wealth of issues, I would agree, but that isn't one of them, imo.

It’s actually one of the few writing issues I, arguably the biggest fates apologist on this forum, have with fates. Honest to god Corrin should not be able to romance any of their siblings adopted or otherwise. It’s not a big issue but there’s a bit of a thematic inconsistency there

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ottservia

[null]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

dunno man, i think when it comes to incest i find the blood relation to be a much more disgusting factor than knowing each other from when they were young.

4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

''we're blood siblings!''
*player wants to bang x*
''actually we are not''

That definetly is one of the many problems

Yeah, I agree. Fair point. I guess knowing that aspect of the S-support in hindsight gives a different perspective compared to someone going in without knowing it at all.

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Depending on how fast you unlock the supports, that message can be seen very early on relative to the player's progress in the story though.

And not being raised alongside other people means that there wouldn't be any kind of bond or connection there. It makes sense that it wouldn't feel so surprising considering how Corrin was just as suddenly told that he was their blood relative in the first place.

Fates's writing has a wealth of issues, I would agree, but that isn't one of them, imo.

You're right, there shouldn't be any kind of bond there, but the game does try is dardnst to try convince us there is.

[Ottservia]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're right, there shouldn't be any kind of bond there, but the game does try is dardnst to try convince us there is.

Who says there shouldn’t? Just because you wouldn’t feel that way doesn’t mean the characters shouldn’t be able to feel that way. Once again you’re too focused on the minor details that don’t actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ottservia

[null]

1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

Who says there shouldn’t? Just because you wouldn’t feel that way doesn’t mean the characters shouldn’t be able to feel that way. Once again you’re too focused on the minor details that don’t actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

Because relationships don't work that way. Bonds are not formed instantly. Just as two individuals cannot love each other upon seeing each other for the first time or even after knowing each other for a short amount of time, neither do family bonds form quickly. They take time and effort, something the game does not even come close to conveying to the player.

Take other Fire Emblem games, for example. In Path of Radiance, not only do you have multiple supports between characters that demonstrate how they grow and interact with each other over the course of the story (Boyd, Oscar, and Rolf, for example), but you have continuous dialogue throughout the game that shows the bonds they've formed over time. Likewise, the many interactions between the students, faculty, and avatar in Three Houses accomplish the same goal in just as effective a manner. Fates, to me, just doesn't offer a sufficient level of character interactions to achieve what its fellow games in the series did.

In my opinion at least, it is a sign of poor writing when characters are expected to be thought of as particularly close or having bonds when the writing does very little or even nothing at all to set those relationships up.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, twilitfalchion said:

Because relationships don't work that way. Bonds are not formed instantly. Just as two individuals cannot love each other upon seeing each other for the first time or even after knowing each other for a short amount of time, neither do family bonds form quickly. They take time and effort, something the game does not even come close to conveying to the player.

Take other Fire Emblem games, for example. In Path of Radiance, not only do you have multiple supports between characters that demonstrate how they grow and interact with each other over the course of the story (Boyd, Oscar, and Rolf, for example), but you have continuous dialogue throughout the game that shows the bonds they've formed over time. Likewise, the many interactions between the students, faculty, and avatar in Three Houses accomplish the same goal in just as effective a manner. Fates, to me, just doesn't offer a sufficient level of character interactions to achieve what its fellow games in the series did.

In my opinion at least, it is a sign of poor writing when characters are expected to be thought of as particularly close or having bonds when the writing does very little or even nothing at all to set those relationships up.

I mean that’s a fair point my main point though(which is what I should’ve made more clear) is that you shouldn’t project rules onto a story that had no intention of following those rules. The whole point of Corrin’s relationship with the Hoshidian royals is that idea of well blindly following what others tell you is the truth. The bonds there in are created over the course of the story. Corrin blindly follows hoshido without doubt which is a bit of a character arc for them going forward in birthright. The story tries so hard to push that there is a bond because that’s the point of the narrative. Corrin creates those bonds by trusting them over Nohr which becomes a point of conflict over the course of the story. Hell, it’s the main conflict behind Takumi’s entire character arc across both paths. And to me, I think it works for the most part. Fates has its problems but birthright is honestly pretty solid in how it’s handled.

[NaotoUzumaki]

Exactly the bonds are not there yet they have to be formed. Also Corrin mom Mikoto takes a mortal blow for them and dies from said Sword Ganglari from THEIR SUPPOSED FATHER Garon. Doesn’t paint norh in a good light especially with the memory seal. Again another problem the story happens because of Corrin and there isn’t enough moral grey to make the conquest or revelation path worth it.

[starburst]

On 9/2/2020 at 5:17 PM, Shrimperor said:

Gameplay wise, i would take Conquest over Thracia any day.

Not because i hate Thracia, i love it, but Conquest is one of the most pure fun gameplay experience i ever had in my life.  I love Conquest gameplay so much, that even with rating the Story and characters like 0/10, i rate the game itself ~9/10.

Only very few games can stand up to the gameplay experience that was conquest, and they are mostly action games.

You were doing really good, mate; walking through the true, divine path. I could almost see you there, embracing enlightenment. And yet...

 

On 9/1/2020 at 10:25 PM, Shrimperor said:

I enjoy 3H gameplay...

You had to ruin it.

What the fuck was that!? How is that even possible?

Do you fancy Hilda's rack? I get it. Or is it Rhea's ass? Understandable. Do you have a strange fetish for the socially inept, like Under-the-table or Blue Monday? I might kind of get it too. But the gameplay!? Seriously!?

[GlitchWarrior]

Opinions exist. That's the entire point of this thread! I'm not going to go around asking people if they enjoy walking for 7 and a half hours because they like Genealogy while I do not. I too think Three Houses' gameplay is lackluster, but you don't have to destroy people's opinions like that.

Edited September 6, 2020 by GlitchWarrior

[NaotoUzumaki]

Let’s be honest about 3Houses it has flaws but the character design and appearance with personality I can see that but I’m an Asperger Syndrome from Autism. I thrive in grinding games Monster Hunter and the Like and 3House gameplay turned me away most of time. Those character cannot even save grinding for me. That a first 

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Thing is

The game acts the whole time as if they were blood related, only for suddenly that random hidden message to pop up

I think the biggest problem is that the reveal is inherently cynical. Its there so you can romance your blood siblings without being ashamed of it and without the rating boards having a stern talk with Nintendo. 

The premise is choosing between blood siblings and adopted siblings and the game then undermining that premise for some pseudo incest is a very unwelcome reminder that fanservice was prioritized greatly over the narrative. 

I think the game also isn't entirely written to support the narrative that the Hoshidans aren't Corin's siblings after all. At the time when making the choice Ryoma is very vocal about the Nohrians bond with Corrin not being real and that they can't possibly be his siblings. This then becomes pretty vile when it turns out Ryoma knew the entire time that he's not Corrin's real brother either. It makes Ryoma come across as a scumbag but that's clearly not how Fates wants to portray him. I strongly suspect that scene was written at the time when the Hoshidans really were Corrin's real family which would make Ryoma's words a lot more valid. In general the honorable Hoshidans lying to Corrin the entire time about being related and then pulling out a letter from Mikoto so they can safely sleep with him isn't in line with how pure Fates insist Hoshido and its citizens are. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[NaotoUzumaki]

Exactly corrin should have went to a dragon gate to fodlan or Thracia or whatver and do a middle finger to both side Saying F...k I’m out. The narrative is so bad for fan service that you introduced a keyblade wielded or anything to remove her from story and the world stops exiting since Corrin isn’t here anymore. It started a trend called Avatar d...k S.....g Contest in support which some of 3HOUSES support are guilty of

5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the biggest problem is that the reveal is inherently cynical. Its there so you can romance your blood siblings without being ashamed of it and without the rating boards having a stern talk with Nintendo. 

The premise is choosing between blood siblings and adopted siblings and the game then undermining that premise for some pseudo incest is a very unwelcome reminder that fanservice was prioritized greatly over the narrative. 

I think the game also isn't entirely written to support the narrative that the Hoshidans aren't Corin's siblings after all. At the time when making the choice Ryoma is very vocal about the Nohrians bond with Corrin not being real and that they can't possibly be his siblings. This then becomes pretty vile when it turns out Ryoma knew the entire time that he's not Corrin's real brother either. In general the honorable Hoshidans lying to Corrin the entire time about being related and then pulling out a letter from Mikoto so they can safely sleep with him isn't in line with how pure Fates insist Hoshido and its citizens are. 

 

[null]

30 minutes ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Opinions exist. That's the entire point of this thread! I'm not going to go around asking people if they enjoy walking for 7 and a half hours because they like Genealogy while I do not. I too think Three Houses' gameplay is lackluster, but you don't have to destroy people's opinions like that.

Agreed. Attitudes like that are not only rude, but they prevent healthy, civil discussion.

[Shrimpica]

1 hour ago, starburst said:

But the gameplay!? Seriously!?

Yeah, seriously.

I am a big fan of a lot (actually all) of the changes brought over from the echoes and expanded in 3H. 

Especially the fact that we aren't stuck in 1-2 range anymore, which seriously fucked Archers over in almost every other game.

I never grinded, didn't recruit from other houses, only did Story + paralogues, hence 3H was actually quite challenging. No map made me want to kill myself either except for Bernie/Petra paralogue. Many other FE have more maps that make me wanna drop the whole series altogether.

Many of the maps had secondary objectives you could complete, which made me split up my army. There's also the fact that the game has a heavy player phase focus, since enemy units are very strong (and i am not talking maddening here, but hard), but def stats all around are pretty low. I enjoy Player phase focus much more than enemy phase focus. Majority of the series sadly focuses more on enemy phase.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Florete]

5 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Just as two individuals cannot love each other upon seeing each other for the first time

*COUGH*sigurdanddeirdre*ACHOO*

(But really I don't understand why people like those two so much. Yes I know this isn't what you were talking about but it's what immediately came to mind)

[starburst]

15 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

There's also the fact that the game has a heavy player phase focus, since enemy units are very strong (and i am not talking maddening here, but hard), but def stats all around are pretty low. I enjoy Player phase focus much more than enemy phase focus. Majority of the series sadly focuses more on enemy phase.

Aww, man. I honestly thought that the hyperbolic nature of that post, specially the chintzy beginning, would set its tone as a sarcastic joke. But I was mistaken and you gave a serious reply.

I only played about half of the campaign of Blue Lions before giving up on Four Houses. It was on Hard (the Lunatic patch had not been released yet) but never did I felt that the game could take place on Player Phase. My units could simply not die! Maybe I needed to play more maps, but there was no incentive to be creative with the approach.
I have said this before about Awakening, and it also applies to Four Houses: It may use a grid, but it plays like a (slow) JRPG, not like a strategy game.

Like you, I enjoy Conquest. The only games that I played more times were arcade games, as a kid. Its gameplay truly entertains me; it is like a fifteen-hour puzzle, and I replay it almost every month.

But I let us stop here. I do not care about Four Houses. I only wanted to return the courtesy of a serious reply.

[X-Naut]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the game also isn't entirely written to support the narrative that the Hoshidans aren't Corin's siblings after all. At the time when making the choice Ryoma is very vocal about the Nohrians bond with Corrin not being real and that they can't possibly be his siblings. This then becomes pretty vile when it turns out Ryoma knew the entire time that he's not Corrin's real brother either. It makes Ryoma come across as a scumbag but that's clearly not how Fates wants to portray him. I strongly suspect that scene was written at the time when the Hoshidans really were Corrin's real family which would make Ryoma's words a lot more valid. In general the honorable Hoshidans lying to Corrin the entire time about being related and then pulling out a letter from Mikoto so they can safely sleep with him isn't in line with how pure Fates insist Hoshido and its citizens are. 

I think that was the point. Japan (among other countries) has a long history of whitewashing itself, and Hoshidans committing questionable acts while taking the moral high-ground reflects on their inspiration.

Edited September 7, 2020 by X-Naut

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Who says there shouldn’t? Just because you wouldn’t feel that way doesn’t mean the characters shouldn’t be able to feel that way. Once again you’re too focused on the minor details that don’t actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

I thought you were in the camp that Corrin shouldn't romance any of their siblings?

[Ottservia]

47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I thought you were in the camp that Corrin shouldn't romance any of their siblings?

I am but not for the same reasons as you. I don’t like it because it kinda muffles the whole “trust in family” theme the game has going on