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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I wouldn't mind if Fire Emblem took a note from Trails of Cold Steel and given NPCs character arcs that make you care about them.

then that wouldnt be a "generic" at all but falls into side character territory. i think FE3H already trying that somewhat a little, those NPC character that have background but can not be part of your team.
i dont mind that either. after all if IS going forward with FE3H as the standard, we'll see fewer count of unit character (compared to GBA fire emblem or earlier) per playthru, that gives more room for NPC with arcs that you want

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I want the next game to just be a singe linear route game. No more route splits, it just causes things to be spread very thin. If we have to have a route split, I'd prefer something minor like the route splits in FE5 and FE6, where the only things that really changed are what characters you recruit. At most, something like Shadows of Valentia or Sacred Stones, where the story still ultimately plays out the same regardless.

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It isn't impossible, ad Fire Emblem games in the past HAS actually been able to decently integrate characters to be more involved with the story or have scenes to give them story presence. A prime example is the Tellius series where Path of Radiance actually really worked around the permadeath feature, and even also built base conversations that involved other characters. 

The Tellius series is what I feel was the game that really pushed the effort in working around the permadeath. 

Tellius tried, for sure, but even then, most characters only have their story involvement until they become playable. What do Lethe and Mordecai do after becoming playable? What do the rest of the Greil Mercenaries do after the little 7 chapter intro with them? And anyone else is a case of "doesn't actually die," which doesn't count for me.

Base conversations are nice and I'd certainly appreciate something like that coming back, but that's not story involvement, it's basically supports that can have more than 2 characters.

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Hence why IS should hire more staff for programming this. They oughta be able to afford it now. 

Fire Emblem is now a pretty big name at this point. Added further with how much money FEH is undoubtedly making. So I don't see why IS doesn't given a higher budget and hire more programmers to help get things going.

Honestly, that's not really the problem. Actually making such a complex web be cohesive isn't made easier by adding more people (that may actually make it harder).

I get that the idea of a narrative that can change from any number of variable gameplay consequences sounds really cool, but in practice it just wouldn't turn out well. And there's not great incentive for them to try, either, considering how common it is for people to play a game once and then move on.

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7 minutes ago, Florete said:

Honestly, that's not really the problem. Actually making such a complex web be cohesive isn't made easier by adding more people (that may actually make it harder).

Exactly. More people working not necessarily correlate to quality, quantity maybe. And we know everything that falls short gets more criticism than something that wasnt there

 

7 minutes ago, Florete said:

Tellius tried, for sure, but even then, most characters only have their story involvement until they become playable. What do Lethe and Mordecai do after becoming playable? What do the rest of the Greil Mercenaries do after the little 7 chapter intro with them? And anyone else is a case of "doesn't actually die," which doesn't count for me.

they heavily involved in conversation because they are not killable at that point yet 😂 when they do, they take backseat like the rest

Edited by joevar

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5 minutes ago, Florete said:

Tellius tried, for sure, but even then, most characters only have their story involvement until they become playable. What do Lethe and Mordecai do after becoming playable? What do the rest of the Greil Mercenaries do after the little 7 chapter intro with them? And anyone else is a case of "doesn't actually die," which doesn't count for me.

Base conversations are nice and I'd certainly appreciate something like that coming back, but that's not story involvement, it's basically supports that can have more than 2 characters.

Honestly, that's not really the problem. Actually making such a complex web be cohesive isn't made easier by adding more people (that may actually make it harder).

I get that the idea of a narrative that can change from any number of variable gameplay consequences sounds really cool, but in practice it just wouldn't turn out well. And there's not great incentive for them to try, either, considering how common it is for people to play a game once and then move on.

This is why it's important to KEEP experimenting on these kinds of things. You're going about it in a negative manner, thinking that because they tried but didn't get far enough, they don't amount to much in the end. What you SHOULD think is that they tried this way, now they should try to go a bit further on this and try to push things now that technology is becoming more and more powerful. 

The Tellius series pushed quite a lot in their hardware. But 3H didn't truly push the Switch to its maximum potential. 

Maybe hiring more staff would be a mistake. OR it could actually HELP make the programming much easier. We don't know yet for sure, but the important thing is, it will not hurt for them to try to do that. Fire Emblem is really unlikely to tank in sales at this point, because they have established themselves in the gaming industry and are very popular to people on an international scale. 

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

they heavily involved in conversation because they are not killable at that point yet 😂 when they do, they take backseat like the rest

That isn't actually true. There are conversations that can happen while a character is able to be killed, such as how Boyd, Oscar, and Rolf can end up having a conversation with Rolf's mother. 

9 minutes ago, joevar said:

then that wouldnt be a "generic" at all but falls into side character territory. i think FE3H already trying that somewhat a little, those NPC character that have background but can not be part of your team.
i dont mind that either. after all if IS going forward with FE3H as the standard, we'll see fewer count of unit character (compared to GBA fire emblem or earlier) per playthru, that gives more room for NPC with arcs that you want

The important thing really is that the main cast actually interacts with the environment they are placed in.

It makes them more alive and relatable to the players.

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4 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

7 hours could give you a feeling of the game

But nothing in depth about the characters

Then they wouldn't be gambit attacks but shadow dragon nameless peeps.

Dunno about you, but i am not a fan of that. The only playable generics in FE should be like the ones in that FE5 escape mechanic

It will just add units to the bench.

 

I don't really like Gambit attacks, they feel like glorified weapon arts from Echoes (Infact I'm pretty sure some of the effects from certain Battalions are literally the exact same effects as a weapon art from Echoes just minus the health downside.) except the enemy can't counter, which doesn't feel like having an actual army and more just Jojo stands (They even fade in/out when fighting like actual Jojo Stands.), they feel more like super moves than any actual troops. (And the fade in/out effect is kinda terrible.) Also yet another thing you can't see if an enemy has till you painstakingly check their inventory screen. (which I'm not too big a fan of in FE.)

Yeah but the fact is I don't even know the surface character of most of the cast, including my own class for several examples, that I'd talked to every exploration, I know as much as them as characters I never really used in FE, talking to the cast in exploration should actually have character stuff instead of the mostly character-less stuff I've seen so far. (And the characters I do know about mostly come from supports)

3 hours ago, joevar said:

so, generic units without portrait? or like what? *never play xcom*

if generic unit without portrait that serves to make the battlefield more crowded with controlable unit.. i dont think we need that kind of unit in FE
If something else, please explain

X-com characters have randomized appearances on the battlefield/inventory screen(But X-com doesn't have potraits), you could just throw together some sort of portrait randomizer for Battalions. (Or even just use a generic portrait like Echoes did.)

 

Edited by Samz707

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

This is why it's important to KEEP experimenting on these kinds of things. You're going about it in a negative manner, thinking that because they tried but didn't get far enough, they don't amount to much in the end. What you SHOULD think is that they tried this way, now they should try to go a bit further on this and try to push things now that technology is becoming more and more powerful. 

The Tellius series pushed quite a lot in their hardware. But 3H didn't truly push the Switch to its maximum potential. 

Maybe hiring more staff would be a mistake. OR it could actually HELP make the programming much easier. We don't know yet for sure, but the important thing is, it will not hurt for them to try to do that. Fire Emblem is really unlikely to tank in sales at this point, because they have established themselves in the gaming industry and are very popular to people on an international scale. 

Maybe I am taking a negative stance, but you've got the problem wrong. Hardware, technology, money, those aren't factors here. The Gamecube easily could have handled the narrative you're looking for. Hiring more staff would help with programming the whole thing, but not with creating cohesiveness for the player.

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The important thing really is that the main cast actually interacts with the environment they are placed in.

thats why i still dont like avatar/my unit taking the spotlight because they just.. there. not saying its impossible. just maybe not in "FE" kind of game

5 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

X-com characters have randomized appearances on the battlefield/inventory screen(But X-com doesn't have potraits), you could just throw together some sort of portrait randomizer for Battalions. (Or even just use a generic portrait like Echoes did.)

soo... expendable unit but weaker?
dunno if it would make the gameplay flow better (or if it would make the game easier/harder), im more inclined to disagree with the idea.

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3 minutes ago, joevar said:

thats why i still dont like avatar/my unit taking the spotlight because they just.. there. not saying its impossible. just maybe not in "FE" kind of game

soo... expendable unit but weaker?
dunno if it would make the gameplay flow better (or if it would make the game easier/harder), im more inclined to disagree with the idea.

Pretty much.

I think expendable units would have a better flow than rewinding time.

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5 minutes ago, Florete said:

Maybe I am taking a negative stance, but you've got the problem wrong. Hardware, technology, money, those aren't factors here. The Gamecube easily could have handled the narrative you're looking for. Hiring more staff would help with programming the whole thing, but not with creating cohesiveness for the player.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Cause the fact is, KT didn't have that much to work with while being in the hardware of the Switch, and we clearly see that there are a lot of graphical and animation issues with the game, with many things being rather half-assed even. Add in how many maps end up being entirely identical, they likely couldn't get so much done. 

5 minutes ago, joevar said:

thats why i still dont like avatar/my unit taking the spotlight because they just.. there. not saying its impossible. just maybe not in "FE" kind of game

I mean, I doubt they'll stop using Avatars because Avatars are popular in many games nowadays. 

But you can't have an Avatar not be important. They have to be important to be involved. If they aren't, it feels out of place to even be there. Just make the Avatars be like Robin with personality and lines of their own, and it's good.

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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I mean, I doubt they'll stop using Avatars because Avatars are popular in many games nowadays.

since IS is getting bigger, and bigger sized companies generally cant ignore the trend... so yeah i can see that.

7 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Pretty much.

I think expendable units would have a better flow than rewinding time.

i can smell what kind of hot debate and critics will be coming if that gets implemented , lol
 

Spoiler

people and journalism start ranting about FE losing its charm as high stake , high emotional game since your main unit are more safe than ever now

 

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7 minutes ago, joevar said:

since IS is getting bigger, and bigger sized companies generally cant ignore the trend... so yeah i can see that.

i can smell what kind of hot debate and critics will be coming if that gets implemented , lol
 

  Reveal hidden contents

people and journalism start ranting about FE losing its charm as high stake , high emotional game since your main unit are more safe than ever now

 

I mean Rewind keeps your units waaaay more safe IMO.

I could pretty much stopped trying in Echoes Dungeons since I had so many rewinds and I could just leave to refill them.

While I wouldn't want EVERY FE game to have them, having disposable units that cost money would be better than 3H Batallions if they want us to feel like we have armies.

 

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36 minutes ago, joevar said:

since IS is getting bigger, and bigger sized companies generally cant ignore the trend... so yeah i can see that.

An unfortunate consequence. But popularity and trends are what the people basically demand, and will pay money.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

An unfortunate consequence. But popularity and trends are what the people basically demand, and will pay money.

Sadly.

There are alot of game series that I don't enjoy anymore because the modern ones chase video game trends that I really, really hate in the gameplay department. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Sadly.

There are alot of game series that I don't enjoy anymore because the modern ones chase video game trends that I really, really hate in the gameplay department. 

The one thing I feel that IS HAS learned is that pushing fanservice like they did with Fates is NOT a good thing. Given that very few characters are actually sexualized.

However, I do feel that in terms of gameplay, Fates actually did better than 3H had.

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

The one thing I feel that IS HAS learned is that pushing fanservice like they did with Fates is NOT a good thing. Given that very few characters are actually sexualized.

While Fates is incredibly flawed in this regard, even more so then it’s predecessor, I still blame Awakening for starting this pernicious trend in the series.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

While Fates is incredibly flawed in this regard, even more so then it’s predecessor, I still blame Awakening for starting this pernicious trend in the series.

I feel that is not really a fair assessment, since Awakening didn't even start that trend. 

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16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I feel that is not really a fair assessment, since Awakening didn't even start that trend. 

Awakening exacerbated the issue to the nth degree. I own both the 20th Anniversary and New Mystery of the Emblem art books and let me tell you, there is a stark contrasted between pre-Awakening artwork and post-Awakening artwork. Are there still fanservice characters in earlier games? Of course, especially amongst the dancer class characters, but nothing to the extent which was seen in Awakening at the time of its release.

Edited by Wraith

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10 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Awakening exacerbated the issue to the nth degree. I owe both the 20th anniversary and New Mystery of the Emblem art books and let me tell you, there is a stark contrasted between pre-Awakening artwork and post-Awakening artwork. Are there still fanservice characters in earlier games? Of course, especially amongst the dancer class characters, but nothing to the extent which was seen in Awakening at the time of its release.

I like how Sonya is the "thot" character of Echoes yet she's honestly more covered up than alot of Fates/Awakening characters.

 

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

But you can't have an Avatar not be important. They have to be important to be involved. If they aren't, it feels out of place to even be there. Just make the Avatars be like Robin with personality and lines of their own, and it's good.

The Problem with Robin is they feel more like a generic character and their writing kinda assumes you're best pals with the almost all of the cast, and well, that doesn't land if you're like me and the cast are kinda highly unlikable for various reasons.

I'd rather they pull a Mark and only insist that you're kinda pals with the lords if they aren't going full C-RPG to let you decide who your character likes/doesn't like. (And even then I'd argue most of the FE7 Lord dialogue only implies THEY like you, so you can imagine Mark as only being with them for pragmatic reasons.)

Also I guess more characters who flat-out hate each other in my army and never get over it, not everyone is going to be friends. 

Maybe even let us be a bit of an ass, for instance, what if you could actually sell off lost items in Three Houses for instance, sure you could get support points but that shady merchant in the market would pay a decent bit of money for that lost pearl earing. 

Also if the explore feature comes back, give us secret areas to find, Postal 2 for instance let you do basic platforming to find a hidden cat sanctuary in one of the areas, this location would get better items every day of the week, so lets say there's some area where the PC can find a magpie's nest by climbing (And actually be hidden, you have to find this nest on your own.), so you the player can search it every now and then, maybe there's some poisoned throwing knives one day, maybe there's some valuable lost item that you have to decide if you want to return or if you're better off pawning it off for that Killing Edge you really want.

Also do away with that support heart in conversations, I feel like I'm playing a corny dating sim and it feels like the game is constantly going "You didn't pick the right option B****" when I see multiple dialogue choices and I don't pick the one that would obviously result in more support.

Edited by Samz707

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Just now, Samz707 said:

The Problem with Robin is they feel more like a generic character and their writing kinda assumes you're best pals with the almost all of the cast, and well, that doesn't land if you're like me and the cast are kinda highly unlikable for various reasons.

I'd rather they pull a Mark and only insist that you're kinda pals with the lords if they aren't going full C-RPG to let you decide who your character likes/doesn't like. (And even then I'd argue most of the FE7 Lord dialogue only implies THEY like you, so you can imagine Mark as only being with them for pragmatic reasons.)

Honestly that's a thing I wish FE would move away from in general, in 7/Echoes certain parts of the cast never became friends (Python and Clive for instance)  give me more characters who hate each other's guts in my army and never get over it. 

Maybe even let us be a bit of an ass, for instance, what if you could actually sell off lost items in Three Houses for instance, sure you could get support points but that shady merchant in the market would pay a decent bit of money for that lost pearl earing. 

I disagree. 

Robin is by far the best Avatar of the bunch. The fact is, Robin has an established personality and interesting character dynamic with the others in his supports. He definitely is able to set himself as a character in the story, rather than some random guy like Mark, who exists and is praised for no reason whatsoever. 

Or Kris, who feels like he's consuming character interaction just to seem important. 

Out of all the Avatars done, Robin remains the best of them all. 

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Also if the explore feature comes back, give us secret areas to find, Postal 2 for instance let you do basic platforming to find a hidden cat sanctuary in one of the areas, this location would get better items every day of the week, so lets say there's some area where the PC can find a magpie's nest by climbing (And actually be hidden, you have to find this nest on your own.), so you the player can search it every now and then, maybe there's some poisoned throwing knives one day, maybe there's some valuable lost item that you have to decide if you want to return or if you're better off pawning it off for that Killing Edge you really want.

Honestly, they need to take a more RPG element for their My Castle thing. 

Instead of making on home feature, do multiple when going through major cities and areas, and for the minor ones, do an Encampment that you see in Chapter 12 of the CF route. 

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5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I disagree. 

Robin is by far the best Avatar of the bunch. The fact is, Robin has an established personality and interesting character dynamic with the others in his supports. He definitely is able to set himself as a character in the story, rather than some random guy like Mark, who exists and is praised for no reason whatsoever. 

Or Kris, who feels like he's consuming character interaction just to seem important. 

Out of all the Avatars done, Robin remains the best of them all. 

 

I guess I admit I'm kinda biased since I don't like Robin's (Female Robin anyway) personality/supports with other characters. 

I still feel Robin gets praised too much and it actually gave me metaphorical whiplash when suddenly everyone is praising this mysterious person and wants them to lead them after the first level. (And is VERY OP gameplay-wise and pretty much starts as a promoted class.), Mark still gets praised arguably a bit too much but I think Robin's on a higher tier of too much and sure it's "technically" warranted but that's part of the problem with Robin as a gameplay unit, since they're literally basically a promoted class from a previous game and have 50 extra EXP growth so it just comes off as pandering to the player, when your OC is literally one of the best characters ever and is pretty much a one-man army compared to your other starting units and can use multiple weapon types from the start. (Then again I'm a weirdo who actually likes the fact Roy sucks.) Mark doesnt get praise onpar with the "Swords, Sorcery and tactics, Is there anything you can't do!?" Praise Robin gets at the start of Awakening.

I don't really think the Avatar character should be friends with other characters outside of player input, Awakening assumes you like the character and their personality quirks and that doesn't really work for me, at all, as I really don't. (Such as how Robin finds Vaike amusing while I really, really don't.) 

When the Avatar is made friends with a character, it comes across to me as the devs trying to dictate what the player is ment to think about them. (Which again doesn't work if the player hates the characters.)

Edited by Samz707

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9 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Hence why IS should hire more staff for programming this. They oughta be able to afford it now. 

Fire Emblem is now a pretty big name at this point. Added further with how much money FEH is undoubtedly making. So I don't see why IS doesn't given a higher budget and hire more programmers to help get things going.

It doesn't even need to be big plot altering things. Like imagine in Path of Radiance if Mist dies, for the rest of the game Ike's portrait is slightly more somber and his dialogue is just a bit more morose. No need for any major changes to the outcome, but some small tweaks here and there and suddenly you have a death that alters Ike's outlook and and arc completely.

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6 hours ago, Samz707 said:

I guess I admit I'm kinda biased since I don't like Robin's (Female Robin anyway) personality/supports with other characters. 

Well female Robin is the worst one. I’m sorry y’all but male Robin is just better in every conceivable way

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18 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Well female Robin is the worst one. I’m sorry y’all but male Robin is just better in every conceivable way

Were I into Awakening supports, I'd take some boredom time and divvy up each and every Robin support between the two to see who has the better supports overall and with each individual character. But as is, the only one I can judge is Chrom, and that is universally agreed to belong in the Mobin column. 

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