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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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Just now, joevar said:

in simpler terms, i want a situation where you judge something after you get the full picture. not just after a couple battle you just "oh this guy is pure evil" and youre actually right..

Yeah. Honestly, it isn't even impossible to do that, even. You could legit just have the character be temporarily captured by the enemies, treated like a guest more or less, and basically have a chance to sit down and talk, learning about why they are fighting and what they desire. It's a case of seeing the enemies you fight have a better and more human side to them. 

Of course, I do think that there oughta be couple guys that are just straight up evil, because there ARE people like that in the world, who have no conscience, but they exist in both sides. 

Hell, with how FE typically has you slay some godlike being, it would be neat if to do that, you have to actually work with the morally corrupt villains to win over the greater threat.

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1 minute ago, joevar said:

didnt understand by what you mean surface level. 
im just saying that when the antagonist gives away hints to player but the actual protag didnt get it, sometimes you know... There are people thats too observative for their own good, and start calling the story bad just because they didnt enjoy it/not their cup of tea

Oh okay thank you for clarifying and I somewhat agree. What I meant was that looking at moral ambiguity in stories on the level on “who is right and wrong?” Is kinda missing the point. The point of moral ambiguity is that no side is truly right or wrong. We’re all simply people acting on our own ideals and beliefs. It’s not about getting the audience to question who is right or wrong but rather getting to understand that there’s more nuance to the situation than what’s on the surface.

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4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’d argue that being able to see Tauroneo’s crippled son would’ve actually made for far stronger storytelling

Yes. It would. Seeing Tauroneo meet his family again in a base conversation would be very interested. But I meant more that its in his advantage in terms of giving players less reason to hate him compared to Gilbert. The player is constantly seeing the person he's neglecting and at times also the harm he's doing. 

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6 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Oh okay thank you for clarifying and I somewhat agree. What I meant was that looking at moral ambiguity in stories on the level on “who is right and wrong?” Is kinda missing the point. The point of moral ambiguity is that no side is truly right or wrong. We’re all simply people acting on our own ideals and beliefs. It’s not about getting the audience to question who is right or wrong but rather getting to understand that there’s more nuance to the situation than what’s on the surface.

i support that notion, actually thats the reason i want the design to not reflect it and not influence the actual judgement. just let it flow until last arc and you get full picture

Edited by joevar

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12 minutes ago, joevar said:

i support that notion, actually thats the reason i want the design to not reflect it and not influence the actual judgement. just let it flow until last arc and you get full picture

The only game that actually succeeded, to a degree, is 3H because of Edelgard. 

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On 10/4/2020 at 11:26 AM, Jotari said:

I'm right because I have evidence. You are wrong because your evidence doesn't count."

Isn’t that how formal debate is supposed to work though? You make a claim and if you can’t properly support said claim then that claim is false or faulty. It’s not that I think other people’s evidence “don’t count” as you say just that the evidence or reasoning they present is flimsy and I try to explain why. I can be harsh sure but I don’t understand what the hell your problem is. Again, I won’t call you out for saying dumb things if you don’t say dumb things. 

 

On 10/4/2020 at 11:26 AM, Jotari said:

Someone was exasperated that you were once again making a potshot at Alm. Someone said it's just your opinion, which is true. I was only weighing in to say that your opinion(s) has been made extremely clear in the history of this topic, so I think someone being exasperated by it isn't an irregular reaction.

And when did I say it was an irregular reaction to someone being tired of hearing me rag on something I constantly rag on? Again I don’t understand what your problem is here. I never said I was shocked to see someone tired of my billshit. If they’re annoyed by my opinions then that’s their problem. I am under no obligation to keep my mouth shut about my tired ass opinions no matter how much it may annoy some people. If they don’t wanna see it then don’t read it. 

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Isn’t that how formal debate is supposed to work though? You make a claim and if you can’t properly support said claim then that claim is false or faulty. It’s not that I think other people’s evidence “don’t count” as you say just that the evidence or reasoning they present is flimsy and I try to explain why. I can be harsh sure but I don’t understand what the hell your problem is. Again, I won’t call you out for saying dumb things if you don’t say dumb things. 

 

And when did I say it was an irregular reaction to someone being tired of hearing me rag on something I constantly rag on? Again I don’t understand what your problem is here. I never said I was shocked to see someone tired of my billshit. If they’re annoyed by my opinions then that’s their problem. I am under no obligation to keep my mouth shut about my tired ass opinions no matter how much it may annoy some people. If they don’t wanna see it then don’t read it. 

Look I said I wasn't going to get into this. I'm not a mod, it's not my place to tell you what you can, can't, should or shouldn't do. Let's leave it as you think you're doing that, but you're not, otherwise these many, many, long arguments with different people on the same subject just wouldn't be happening.

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5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Look I said I wasn't going to get into this. I'm not a mod, it's not my place to tell you what you can, can't, should or shouldn't do. Let's leave it as you think you're doing that, but you're not, otherwise these many, many, long arguments with different people on the same subject just wouldn't be happening.

I agree with this, but I know it falls on deaf ears, so it's not really worth it.

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8 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Isn’t that how formal debate is supposed to work though? You make a claim and if you can’t properly support said claim then that claim is false or faulty. It’s not that I think other people’s evidence “don’t count” as you say just that the evidence or reasoning they present is flimsy and I try to explain why. I can be harsh sure but I don’t understand what the hell your problem is. Again, I won’t call you out for saying dumb things if you don’t say dumb things. 

 

Fine I will try to explain what most people's problem is. You don't hold yourself, or your arguments to the same standard of rigor as you expect of other.

Take the last multi-post interaction between the two of us. You stated a controversial, clear, easily disprovable statement of fact about a character without providing any evidence to back it up. Seeing as just prior you lectured someone else about not providing evidence for their own controversial opinion, it was clear that you weren't arguing in good faith. You then blatantly misrepresenting what I was saying based on no evidence at all. When I finally did let you goad me into pointing out how easily it was disproven, you then claimed that the explicit factual statement you made was somehow not the explicit factual statement you made, and was instead an argument about a subject that had never come up in the discussion I was having with Shrimperor, which you didn't provide any evidence for either. As you make even more clear a few pages back with your whole Naruto fight example, you expect others to be more objective with their statements and arguments than you are willing to be in practice.

If you expect others to have facts to backup their statements when they make, and to argue objectively, you need to hold yourself to the same standard, or people will find you hypocritical, overbearing, and/or arguing in bad faith. You might perceive yourself as being objective with your argumentation, but I suspect the subject is too personal for you to view objectively, and I hope you take this criticism not as an attack to ignore, but a chance to learn from the perspectives of others.

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20 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Fine I will try to explain what most people's problem is. You don't hold yourself, or your arguments to the same standard of rigor as you expect of other.

Take the last multi-post interaction between the two of us. You stated a controversial, clear, easily disprovable statement of fact about a character without providing any evidence to back it up. Seeing as just prior you lectured someone else about not providing evidence for their own controversial opinion, it was clear that you weren't arguing in good faith. You then blatantly misrepresenting what I was saying based on no evidence at all. When I finally did let you goad me into pointing out how easily it was disproven, you then claimed that the explicit factual statement you made was somehow not the explicit factual statement you made, and was instead an argument about a subject that had never come up in the discussion I was having with Shrimperor, which you didn't provide any evidence for either. As you make even more clear a few pages back with your whole Naruto fight example, you expect others to be more objective with their statements and arguments than you are willing to be in practice.

If you expect others to have facts to backup their statements when they make, and to argue objectively, you need to hold yourself to the same standard, or people will find you hypocritical, overbearing, and/or arguing in bad faith. You might perceive yourself as being objective with your argumentation, but I suspect the subject is too personal for you to view objectively, and I hope you take this criticism not as an attack to ignore, but a chance to learn from the perspectives of others.

Fair enough but in that example specifically you said to list characters I thought fit your criteria and so I did. I was under no obligation to explain myself there unless prompted. You never asked for me to explsin myself so I didn’t. If you did then I would have. You seem to be misunderstanding how I operate. I only ask that if you are going to try and make a claim and back it up then you should back it up properly. If you’re going to criticize a piece of media respect it enough to not misrepresent it or it’s ideas. If you think I’m making a bad faith argument please by all means politely say that I’m misreading your argument. I am willing to admit when I’m wrong believe it or not should you provide solid enough reasoning in a respectful manner. It’s not like I expect everyone to be able to back up their opinions with facts or reasoning just if you are going to do that do so properly. No one is under any obligation to explain their opinions or personal tastes. If you don’t like something, you don’t like something that’s just how it is. You don’t need to explain your personal taste to me. If you are though, then don’t be shocked when people call you out for a bad faith argument.

Edited by Ottservia

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- BeenXanna is the worse ship                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -SS is the Best routs of three houses

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44 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Fine I will try to explain what most people's problem is. You don't hold yourself, or your arguments to the same standard of rigor as you expect of other.

 

23 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Fair enough but in that example specifically you said to list characters I thought fit your criteria and so I did. I was under no obligation to explain myself there unless prompted.

24 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You never asked for me to explsin myself so I didn’t. If you did then I would have. You seem to be misunderstanding how I operate. I only ask that if you are going to try and make a claim and back it up then you should back it up properly.

This sums it up quite nicely , no?

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26 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

 

This sums it up quite nicely , no?

No it doesn’t. You don’t have to explain your opinion to me. I don’t have to explain my opinion to you. But if you are going to explain your opinion then don’t lie or misrepresent information. The key phrase here being “If you are” not by default.

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On 10/5/2020 at 8:38 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

To be fair it is possible to win a battle tactically but lose it strategically. Winning at Grondor doesn't mean much when the entire army is exhausted, Dimitri is broken and the empire can just toss more soldiers at Dimitri until he goes away. Dimitri's first march at Enbarr was always depicted as something that couldn't work and was done mostly to satisfy Dimitri's bloodlust. 

 

Gilbert said that the Kingdom had the resources to invade the Empire after Gronder but before Fhirdiad. I would agree with you but the writing is weird because there's the possibility of continuing the assault deeper into the Empire. It sucks because it makes the Empire non threatening even prior to the liberation of Fhirdiad. 

Spoiler
  • Gilbert: If we split up the soldiers currently defending the monastery, we should have sufficient numbers to invade the Empire. But even then...

 

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Three Houses is either really badly written or somehow suffers from more translation issues than past games.

Sothis said that the Sword of the Creator is "Different from the other relic's we've seen", I've only seen one at this point, Thunderband.

I've never been left thinking "Did the writer seriously just fail basic math?" before in a video game and that's a really dumb mistake to make among other really questionable writing I've encountered.

 

Edited by Samz707

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True Edelgard uddimg a knife against Kostas was stupid as a fellow axe user herself just to show Byleth god powers. You could just have her finishing a grunt and isn’t aware of Kostas  and Byleth dies but goes back in time to prevent Kostas.

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7 minutes ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Fire emblem three houses is bad

Hey now...

This is an unpopular fact, not an unpopular opinion.

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Sothis said that the Sword of the Creator is "Different from the other relic's we've seen", I've only seen one at this point, Thunderband.

I think at this point you can also have done Ingrid's paralogue? Maayybbe? (I don't really know, but I think so. IIRC you also could have done Lorenz, but I've payed so little attention to the game that I honestly can't remember.) I agree that they could have had a condition based on what paralogues you'd done are, though.

Although the thing I find weird is that...Well, unless I misunderstood something, it's not any different? It seems to do exactly the same thigns as the others.

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1 minute ago, Benice said:

Hey now...

This is an unpopular fact, not an unpopular opinion.

I think at this point you can also have done Ingrid's paralogue? Maayybbe? (I don't really know, but I think so. IIRC you also could have done Lorenz, but I've payed so little attention to the game that I honestly can't remember.) I agree that they could have had a condition based on what paralogues you'd done are, though.

Although the thing I find weird is that...Well, unless I misunderstood something, it's not any different? It seems to do exactly the same thigns as the others.

I enjoy playing 3h, dont get me wrong, but the story just sucks

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hey is liking the fe12 avatar still unpopular

i like the fe12 avatar! like even in the storyline and all! loved the side story with katarina and just less stealing lines from jagen and things would have made them entirely good for me

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15 minutes ago, Benice said:

Hey now...

This is an unpopular fact, not an unpopular opinion.

I think at this point you can also have done Ingrid's paralogue? Maayybbe? (I don't really know, but I think so. IIRC you also could have done Lorenz, but I've payed so little attention to the game that I honestly can't remember.) I agree that they could have had a condition based on what paralogues you'd done are, though.

Although the thing I find weird is that...Well, unless I misunderstood something, it's not any different? It seems to do exactly the same thigns as the others.

I wasn't even aware Paralogue's were avaliable yet, I thought they were all after the time skip and you really shouldn't write your game on the assumption someone's done optional side content.

It just bothers me how such a basic mistake slipped through, it really feels like TH's story so far is a REALLY rough first draft. (Such as just skipping over the students barely knowing Byleth at all, as if they never got around to actually writing introduction scenes as if the writer never got around to writing them, forgot about them and the game shipped that way.), this feels like what I'd expect FE7 to be written like honesty. (Since early Japanese to english games around the PS2 Era tended to have...spotty translations and Fe7 does have translation errors.)

Edited by Samz707

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19 minutes ago, Benice said:

I think at this point you can also have done Ingrid's paralogue? Maayybbe? (I don't really know, but I think so. IIRC you also could have done Lorenz, but I've payed so little attention to the game that I honestly can't remember.)

Nope, you don’t unlock paralogues until chapter 6/7, and this takes place in chapter 4.

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1 minute ago, Sooks1016 said:

Nope, you don’t unlock paralogues until chapter 6/7, and this takes place in chapter 4.

Ah, my bad.

Spoiler

Wait, but isn't the Lance of Ruin considered one of the best ways to get rid of the Death Knight in chapter 4?

EDIT: Maybe I should spoil that.

Edited by Benice

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7 minutes ago, Benice said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Wait, but isn't the Lance of Ruin considered one of the best ways to get rid of the Death Knight in chapter 4?

 

No, because you can’t get it yet.

Spoiler

Dark Spikes T is your best friend

 

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5 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:
contents

Dark Spikes T is your best friend

Yeah, but the only unit who has it has been killed by...*Ahem* STORY REASONS. Definitely not me defenestrating her for bullying my boy Ignatz.

I guess that LoR is better for the second time you fight the DK crew.

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