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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

He's a western meme character due the infamous "what about Dorcas?" "I put poison in his mutton" line from the official FE7 commercial.

 

(And we wonder why the series took so long to become commercially successful).

i've been in this fandom since fe7 was released (i remember when path of radiance was going to be fe8!!!) and i have literally never heard of this meme before ever

i went to check and of course it is only very tangentially related to dorcas himself rofl god bless

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Dorcas IMO isn’t popular by meme as fad a I know but he joined a bandit group to heal his wife leg so he might be a random guy in fe7 but he is compelling to be fair I’m more suprised that glass isn’t here with his meme intro with the manekate sword 

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Dorcas is popular because memes. Although, he does have some actual fans, his supports are overall pretty nice. It just isn't enough fans to rank up to 25th or whatever it was lol, THAT was all meme popularity.

As for Marth, Roy definitely is the more popular one, and I also think he's the actual main reason FE gained notoriety outside of Japan, but Marth is still a very popular character. He didn't rank THAT much lower than Roy, or anyone else, for that matter. If I remember right, in CYL 1 after combining his and Ike's votes between their various versions, Marth was still in the Top 5-6 of all male characters. In CYL 2, with combined votes from his FE 11 and 12 self, he had MORE votes than Ephraim and only ranked behind Hector. Outside of FEH and CYL, he still has a large following. Just being the original protagonist is not giving him his due credit, even if he is less popular than Ike and Roy.

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10 hours ago, Samz707 said:

While the game admittingly doesn't make it too clear that  Roy's relying on his army (Since it's only said in a  few supports) I do actually enjoy having a subpar Lord that I have to protect for gameplay (It's like escorting a Green unit but they're not a suicidal idiot.), really it's only a problem IMO due to how he needs to always capture something at the end of every map, for a series about the "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP" having a Main Lord that well, actually relies on his friends is something I feel fits.

Granted, you can make the argument Roy's a little too weak but if I had a choice between Roy or "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" Robin soloing the entire game, I'd take Roy as it's more interesting on a gameplay aspect.

Yeah, but really, Eliwood and Leaf do the weaker lord concept much better, as they are not a complete burden and they promote at reasonable (if slightly late) times. (and they have much better designs and characterisation imo).

10 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Okay, hot take time....

 

Roy is the reason why FE was localized and has become the series it is today, not Marth. Roy's character design is way more in line with western preferences. His popularity far exceeds that of Marth based on Smash popularity alone; Marth benefits from first lord "obligation" bias and still has nowhere near Roy's popularity.

 

If Melee had released with only Marth, "that tiara guy," very likely would not have created the surge of interest that made FE a global franchise.

 

We owe Roy a debt of gratitude. He may very well be the most important character in FE history.

Is he? I thought Marth is more popular since a lot more people use him competitively and Roy is yet another of the stupid lazy clone characters they always make.

And the main reason we got FE in the first place was Advance Wars (RIP) sold rather well. Roy's supposed popularity is tangential at best, they never bothered to translate his game or keep him for Brawl after all (though I say this as someone who started with FE10 because I liked Ike in Brawl so excuse the hypocrisy.)

Edited by Mars of Aritia

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30 minutes ago, Mars of Aritia said:

Yeah, but really, Eliwood and Leaf do the weaker lord concept much better, as they are not a complete burden and they promote at reasonable (if slightly late) times. (and they have much better designs and characterisation imo).

Is he? I thought Marth is more popular since a lot more people use him competitively and Roy is yet another of the stupid lazy clone characters they always make.

And the main reason we got FE in the first place was Advance Wars (RIP) sold rather well. Roy's supposed popularity is tangential at best, they never bothered to translate his game or keep him for Brawl after all (though I say this as someone who started with FE10 because I liked Ike in Brawl so excuse the hypocrisy.)

More people use Marth competitively because he's more viable. Melee Roy was a joke. But the competitive scene is the smallest part of the Smash fanbase.

 

Mewtwo was also cut in Brawl, and are you going to tell me that Mewtwo isn't wildly popular/important to Pokemon fans?

 

Also, Advanced Wars? Lol, really? If Advanced Wars had anything to do with it, it wouldn't be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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32 minutes ago, Mars of Aritia said:

Yeah, but really, Eliwood and Leaf do the weaker lord concept much better, as they are not a complete burden and they promote at reasonable (if slightly late) times. (and they have much better designs and characterisation imo).

Is he? I thought Marth is more popular since a lot more people use him competitively and Roy is yet another of the stupid lazy clone characters they always make.

And the main reason we got FE in the first place was Advance Wars (RIP) sold rather well. Roy's supposed popularity is tangential at best, they never bothered to translate his game or keep him for Brawl after all (though I say this as someone who started with FE10 because I liked Ike in Brawl so excuse the hypocrisy.)

Eliwood in Eliwood mode promotes at the end of Cog of Destiny, right before going off to get Durandal. After that you have the Durandal chapter, the Denning chapter, the Limstella chapter and the end game (the shopping chapter doesn't count). So basically you have four maps with promoted Eliwood (Hector gets one extra gaiden on his mode, but Eliwood doesn't have that privilege). Roy has three chapters as promoted, the Zephiel chapter, the Brunnya chapter and the Dragon Temple. Idoun is segregated into her own chapter but that's really no more of a chapter than the seperate area for the Fire Dragon. So all in all Eliwood has one chapter over Roy for promotion. It's not that much really.

I'd also dispute that Eliwood is meant to be a weak lord unit. Eliwood is a rng lord unit. His growths are all very middling as opposed to Hector and Lyn who specialize in certain areas, so Eliwood's success as a unit is a lot less reliable. Would you believe Eliwood actually has higher stat totals than Hector? Eliwood's base stats total add up to 47 while Hector's add up to 46. Hector growth total is 335%  while Eliwood's  is 325%, so Hector has a higher growth rate, but only by an extra 10%, and that extra 10% includes a 10% higher HP growth which is a stat that's weighted less than the others. So basically Eliwood has very slightly higher base stats, and very slightly lower growths. In either case they're very comparable units. Hector just ends up being far, far better because of more specialized stats. Eliwood's not bad, he's just tries to specialize in everything, which isn't really a great stat line in a game that uses rng for level ups. The decision to give Eliwood a legendary sword that's far too heavy for him to use also no doubt doesn't help his reputation much. He had a higher lance rank in Sword of Seals so I, like many,  think Maltet would have been a far better choice for him. Other issues include being locked to swords qithout 1-2 range in a game that really heavily focuses on enemy phase tanking. I think Eliwood ended up being a bad unit, but I don't think he was intentionally designed that way (unlike Roy who very well could have been). There's just a lot of circumstances not in his favor.

Edited by Jotari

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14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Eliwood in Eliwood mode promotes at the end of Cog of Destiny, right before going off to get Durandal. After that you have the Durandal chapter, the Denning chapter, the Limstella chapter and the end game (the shopping chapter doesn't count). So basically you have four maps with promoted Eliwood (Hector gets one extra gaiden on his mode, but Eliwood doesn't have that privilege). Roy has three chapters as promoted, the Zephiel chapter, the Brunnya chapter and the Dragon Temple. Idoun is segregated into her own chapter but that's really no more of a chapter than the seperate area for the Fire Dragon. So all in all Eliwood has one chapter over Roy for promotion. It's not that much really.

I'd also dispute that Eliwood is meant to be a weak lord unit. Eliwood is a rng lord unit. His growths are all very middling as opposed to Hector and Lyn who specialize in certain areas, so Eliwood's success as a unit is a lot less reliable. Would you believe Eliwood actually has higher stat totals than Hector? Eliwood's base stats total add up to 47 while Hector's add up to 46. Hector growth total is 335%  while Eliwood's  is 325%, so Hector has a higher growth rate, but only by an extra 10%, and that extra 10% includes a 10% higher HP growth which is a stat that's weighted less than the others. So basically Eliwood has very slightly higher base stats, and very slightly lower growths. In either case they're very comparable units. Hector just ends up being far, far better because of more specialized stats. Eliwood's not bad, he's just tries to specalize in everything, which isn't really a great stat line in a game that uses rng for level ups.

huh, you're right, never realised how few chapters he gets. Probably because there's a lot of combat in those last chapters and a lot fewer seize chapters you have to drag him through beforehand.

Though his growths are almost the same as Roy's. Just +5% Str, Def, Res and -15% luck. He seems like he was designed to fill a similar role.

Edited by Mars of Aritia

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Just now, Mars of Aritia said:

huh, you're right, never realised how few chapters he gets. Probably because there's a lot of combat in those last chapters and a lot fewer seize chapters you have to drag him through beforehand.

You can also promote him earlier on Hector mode if you so feel inclined, which helps to lessen the sense that his promotion is tacked onto the end game. For the sake of completeness, the Sacred Stones twins get five chapters in their promoted class, which sounds pretty close to four until you factor in the fact that their campaigns are only 21 chapters long, so that's a good quarter of the game. Plus they have  post game to play around with too. So makes sense the late promotion ball is never thrown at them. By chapter percentages of Roy vs Eliwood it's a little more complicated. As Binding Blade has less chapters total than Blazing Blade, but a good portion of that is Lyn mode where Eliwood isn't playable. So it probably shouldn't be counted. It is still sort of part of the game though, so while Eliwood will have less total chapters where you're lugging him around as a 20/20 infantry unit compared to Roy, the percentage of the overall game (in terms of numbers of chapters) where you have promoted Eliwood is about even to Roy. I have less issue with late promoted Roy than most other people, because I like what a total bamf he becomes directly after it with such high promotion gains and possibly the best weapon in the series this side of Jugdral, but I definitely think Roy should have gottren the Apocylpse Gaiden to play around with as a promoted unit too. That extra chapter (as sucky as a chapter it might be) would have helped him a lot on that front.

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2 hours ago, Mars of Aritia said:

And the main reason we got FE in the first place was Advance Wars (RIP) sold rather well. Roy's supposed popularity is tangential at best, they never bothered to translate his game or keep him for Brawl after all (though I say this as someone who started with FE10 because I liked Ike in Brawl so excuse the hypocrisy.)

lol, i would say the opposite. nintendo/IS have implied that Roy (and marth) popularity makes nintendo fans overseas wonder what the hell is FE, so clearly its contribute to that. if not they would have referenced Advance wars more. something along the lines of "from the creator of big hit Advance wars, come another strategy game namely... bla bla bla in their promotion.
since its from same devs, no reason to obscure it. (no need to care about copyright or IP since its their own stuff as well)

not bother translating his game? did IS/Nintendo even translate older game after releasing FE7 until recently ??? they even didnt bother to translate marth 4th game

if you say they dont bother, more like they dont have clearance from nintendo. its obvious from past interviews (they want, but cant atm). every subsidiary that arent big yet are like that, just like in Ace combat series the director keep implying he want to remaster the best game, but dont have resource/manpower to do that (since it requires permission from parent company).

"dont want" and "cant afford to" different you know

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Sacred Stones twins get five chapters in their promoted class, which sounds pretty close to four until you factor in the fact that their campaigns are only 21 chapters long, so that's a good quarter of the game.

True, although both twins are still viable stat-wise by the time they can promote, (their promotions boost them rather than salvage them, at least from a stats perspective) whereas Eliwood and Hector in their respective modes, and Roy, aren't. And Marth can't even promote, sadly. (Unless he can in FE12? IIRC he can't.)

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52 minutes ago, Benice said:

True, although both twins are still viable stat-wise by the time they can promote, (their promotions boost them rather than salvage them, at least from a stats perspective) whereas Eliwood and Hector in their respective modes, and Roy, aren't. And Marth can't even promote, sadly. (Unless he can in FE12? IIRC he can't.)

Marth can't promote but he gets something of promotion boots by getting the shield of seals after defeating Hardin (five chapters left including a gaiden in New Mystery, two chapters left with the last being a no save three chapter gauntlet in original Mystery, comparable in time to the promotion of GBA lords) which gives him a boost of +2 in every stat.

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Well I just beat Chapter 5 in 3H.

Anyone feel like Miklan's beast form (cant' speak for any others outside of a few I saw online so I'll just speak for Milkan mostly) is just silly?

He practically instantly turns into a giant dinsoaur, that's not exactly threatening and it's just kinda silly, it reminds me of Resident evil 6 where the main villian somehow mutates into a giant Zombie T-rex and back to human form several times in quick succession in his boss fight. 

I was expecting some sort of horrific man-mutant (like the good Resident evil bosses, like Birkin) and but instead you just get a monster design that doesn't really look like a deformed human and more someone's Dinosaur-hybrid reject from a new Jurrasic Park movie.

Looking up the rest of the beasts and they're also super generic like "GIANT WOLF".

They don't at all look like twisted humans or anything well, interesting or that would actually make sense, it actually feels like a step-back after SOV had at least some design in their monster, they look more like Gajin knock-offs than any sort of actual monsters and they're not even remotely identifiable as "used to be a person.".

(Honestly the game in general seems to lack even a consistent art-style, your characters are more anime than ever but the environments could honestly be slapped into a Unity asset flip modern Military FPS and nothing would change, the game looks like it has several different art-styles at once and not as some sort of deliberate mixing of art-styles but rather completely different art-directors working on their own bits and then jammed together.)

Edited by Samz707

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2 hours ago, Samz707 said:

(Honestly the game in general seems to lack even a consistent art-style, your characters are more anime than ever but the environments could honestly be slapped into a Unity asset flip modern Military FPS and nothing would change, the game looks like it has several different art-styles at once and not as some sort of deliberate mixing of art-styles but rather completely different art-directors working on their own bits and then jammed together.)

two studios working on different part of the game, you should expect some inconsistencies in art. such is 3D "anime" game unless they had western studios AAA budget

Edited by joevar

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Exactly but I understand investors are wanting to know their money are not wasted but if the developers didn’t have that issue they would maybe have solved more issues but investors coupled with FE fans wanting news didn’t help. The developers should have all the time they need before showing a prototype.

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59 minutes ago, joevar said:

two studios working on different part of the game, you should expect some inconsistencies in art. such is 3D "anime" game unless they had western studios AAA budget

Yeah but I've never encountered any games that really feel like the assets are this disjointed.

Granted I don't play many 3D "anime" games but the only games that are really similar to this are A: Metal Gear AC!D (Where it's intentional as the models are re-used from the older games, and infact weapons from the 2D top down era are actually present in Sprite form so it's like if an FE game had Falchion from Shadow Dragon as an bonus weapon but it still looked like a 2D sprite) and Gmod, which is well, Gmod where assets from tons of different games have been added via modding.

I can't think of any non-modded games with a disconnect in the art-style like this aside from MGAC!D where it's done intentionally to call back to older games.

Edited by Samz707

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Yeah and FE anime graphics mixed tecmo warriors realistic graphical background and character is jarring to say the least if. Tales of character and background are anime ish nowadays and most DBZ/Naruto too but they aren’t 50/50 like 3Houses graphics 

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16 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, Advanced Wars? Lol, really? If Advanced Wars had anything to do with it, it wouldn't be relegated to the dustbin of history.

That's true, though. Success of Advance Wars did help bring Fire Emblem to the west. This DYKG video mentions it:

 

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Alm x Celica is really really bad. Not only do they have as much lines together as Sigurd and Deidre, there's also the fact that both Alm and Celica has much better Chemistry with other people than with each other.

Edited by Shrimperor

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7 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Alm x Celica is really really bad. Not only do they have as much lines together as Sigurd and Deidre, there's also the fact that both Alm and Celica has much better Chemistry with other people than with each other.

They do have Chemistry but yeah we don't see too much of them together at Ram Village before the game fully starts. (at least it's not as bad as the original Gaiden where it actually starts with Alm finishing training with Mycen so we never actually see Alm and Celica together for a decent bit of the game.), they should maybe I guess got to talk for a bit longer than 5 seconds when they first meet up again.

True OTP Nomah X Celica!

Edited by Samz707

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8 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Granted I don't play many 3D "anime" games but the only games that are really similar to this

i mean, specifically when the 2 studios divide workload almost 50:50. not 3D anime games as general. since i also dont see such cases in many Bamco titles (who is de facto anime games overlord this decade)  since their past titles are using inhouse engine specifically for anime game

7 hours ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

Tales of character and background are anime ish nowadays and most DBZ/Naruto too but they aren’t 50/50 like 3Houses graphics 

part of the reason im interested if theres another option for IS beside partnering with Koei Tecmo for handling the technical aspect (map, char model/animation, cutscene, etc)

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alm/celica is fine if only because it's explained - they could show it more, but at least it's still said they have lived together if nothing else.

sigurd/deirdre, though? deirdre went to the woods and fell in the love with the first men she saw because of how repressed she was. what is she, a gay man? sigurd falling in love at first sight right back makes even less sense. it's there just for added chapter 5 drama.

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4 minutes ago, Axie said:

they could show it more, but at least it's still said they have lived together if nothing else.

as kids.

Then they meet as adults once and fight then they meet again and love???

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4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

as kids.

Then they meet as adults once and fight then they meet again and love???

i didn't say it was executed particularly well, but at least it's a starting point lol. sometimes in real life that "my childhood love" thing really sticks with you when you see them again. it did need more dialogue but the premise of it does not bother me.

the sigurd/deirdre situation was way further from being functional. i really just took the excuse to drag it because it's baaaad AND their lack of dialogue makes it worse.

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