What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Ottservia]

11 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Well at least that’s how the mechanic ended up being. At least in my opinion.

I’m not arguing with you there but that wasn’t Kaga initial intent. It doesn’t matter what it ended up being just that it’s against what kaga originally wanted for the series. 

 

15 minutes ago, joevar said:

Kaga is overrated and the man himself overrated his own capability. add that to unpopular opinion

I still respect the man a great deal though. He’s clearly passionate about what he does and strives to improve. The man is a creator first and foremost that much is clear and I respect that about him.

[joevar]

20 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I mean the result of his company can show you how popular that opinion is 😛

which company? the company he left under the rule of a parent company or the company he built while working under different company?

if you mean the success of fire emblem, take notice that Fire emblem sales actually declining especially when he abruptly left ( but still popular, yes)

19 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Oh right, I didn’t count exclusive characters. Well the most playable characters is on Azure Moon then, with 36.

again, not possible in first playthru, so in that sense still lower than sacred stone

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar

[joevar]

29 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I still respect the man a great deal though. He’s clearly passionate about what he does and strives to improve. The man is a creator first and foremost that much is clear and I respect that about him.

just for the record, while im saying he's overrated doesnt mean i cant see his merit. i always acknowledged him in same group of people that got associated with a franchise they work on (hironobu, kojima, koji igarashi, kazutoki kono etc) and thats not something that anyone can achieve even with commercial success. (its also worth noting Japanese game developer have more poeple like this than western game developer that like to associated team rather than person)

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, joevar said:

which company? the company he left under the rule of a parent company or the company he built while working under different company?

if you mean the success of fire emblem, take notice that Fire emblem sales actually declining especially when he abruptly left ( but still popular, yes).

The company he built. 

7 minutes ago, joevar said:

again, not possible in first playthru, so in that sense still lower than sacred stone

If you count the side story as a separate play through than yes, but then you’d still have 32 characters, which is apparently one less than Sacred Stones (if the 33 of Sacred Stones are possible in one play through, don’t know, never played that one).

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m not arguing with you there but that wasn’t Kaga initial intent. It doesn’t matter what it ended up being just that it’s against what kaga originally wanted for the series. 

True.

[joevar]

6 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

If you count the side story as a separate play through than yes, but then you’d still have 32 characters, which is apparently one less than Sacred Stones (if the 33 of Sacred Stones are possible in one play through, don’t know, never played that one)

i thought theres not enough time to train since your prof lvl is low in first playthru, so its not possible to achieve all the required stat for recruiting all other class ?

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar

[Ottservia]

12 minutes ago, joevar said:

just for the record, while im saying he's overrated doesnt mean i cant see his merit. i always acknowledged him in same group of people that got associated with a franchise they work on (hironobu, kojima, koji igarashi, kazutoki kono etc) and thats not something that anyone can achieve even with commercial success. (its also worth noting japs people have more poeple like this than west that like to associated team rather than person)

Okay I was with you until you used that word. There are better ways to shorten the term Japanese than with a racial slur. 

[null]

38 minutes ago, joevar said:

Kaga is overrated and the man himself overrated his own capability. add that to unpopular opinion

Interesting ideas with relatively poor execution is a fairly accurate description of Kaga's work, imo.

35 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I mean the result of his company can show you how popular that opinion is 😛

Yes, and FE didn't start to have a noticeable rise in popularity until the years after he left IS. It wasn't immediate, that much is true.

But the franchise became more mainstream and accessible with his departure. That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

[joevar]

16 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Japanese than with a racial slur.

believe it or not, i dont know it was a racial slur that actually offends them

there, i changed it already

and please do tell, what is acceptable to refer them without saying Japanese

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar

[joevar]

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Interesting ideas with relatively poor execution is a fairly accurate description of Kaga's work, imo.

so its not unpopular opinion actually?

5 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

oof

[Benice]

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

But the franchise became more mainstream and accessible with his departure. That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

Eh, the worst selling games, (Thracia aside because IIRC the Super Famicom was basically dead when they released it) came after Kaga. Awakening certainly rebooted the franchise, but that was more increased advertisement than Awakening miraculously becoming popular. Like, Berwick Saga outsold PoR in Japan, and maybe RD as well? Don't know the numbers on that one. It wasn't ENTIRELY Kaga's fault that FE was a sinking boat.

[joevar]

2 minutes ago, Benice said:

Eh, the worst selling games, (Thracia aside because IIRC the Super Famicom was basically dead when they released it) came after Kaga

not quite true, thracia actually worked by Kaga, but he left when it was near completion/release and run with source material for next FE (or so the report say). ofc nintendo would not slap his name to it since they are engaged in lawsuit from his action

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar

[Sooks]

19 minutes ago, joevar said:

i thought theres not enough time to train since your prof lvl is low in first playthru, so its not possible to achieve all the required stat for recruiting all other class ?

If you get a B support with a student outside your house there’s a chance during that week that they will approach you and ask to join your house that you can reset for.

[null]

5 minutes ago, joevar said:

so its not unpopular opinion actually?

Not from what I've seen. Majority says that Kaga leaving was better for the series than the reverse. That's depends on a person-to-person basis, however.

5 minutes ago, Benice said:

Awakening certainly rebooted the franchise, but that was more increased advertisement than Awakening miraculously becoming popular.

It was primarily due to Awakening opening up the series to a more casual audience, broadening the appeal to players who would not have taken as much interest in the series previously. Say what you will about Awakening, but it's thanks to Awakening that FE is anywhere near as popular now as it is.

5 minutes ago, Benice said:

Like, Berwick Saga outsold PoR in Japan, and maybe RD as well?

In Japan, perhaps. But FE as a series has always done better in Japan as well. Reaching western audiences was the primary goal as the series moved forward.

5 minutes ago, Benice said:

It wasn't ENTIRELY Kaga's fault that FE was a sinking boat.

No, nor did I say it was. However, when an individual is the one leading the effort, and that effort is faltering, then it is only natural to look to the top to see why that is the case.

Edited October 30, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Spara]

8 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

But the franchise became more mainstream and accessible with his departure. That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

It became more accessible, but it lost a lot of the charm that I think KagaFE had. FE1&2 were super slow but had NES charm, FE3 was honestly cool, and 4&5 really felt magical and unique with their different ideas. FE6, to me, feels like FE1 again, and FE7 and 8 are similarly bland. FE9 at least has a cool setting, but the gameplay still feels bland and slowed down. I really love FE10 in spite of its flaws because of the fact that it feels unique and not just GBAFE for the fifth time in a row. That's not to say charm is everything, or that kaga was infallible, far from it - just look at the pure hell that is TRS map 32. 

6 minutes ago, Benice said:

Like, Berwick Saga outsold PoR in Japan, and maybe RD as well?

It outsold them both, but RD was much closer to its sales than PoR was. 

[joevar]

so, good marketing saves the day in the end?

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, joevar said:

not quite true, thracia actually worked by Kaga, but he left when it was near completion/release and run with source material for next FE (or so the report say). ofc nintendo would not slap his name to it since they are engaged in lawsuit from his action

Kaga's name is still in the credits of Thracia. He left barely a month before release. Even if they wanted to I doubt they would've, or even could've, removed his name, since the game was just about finished.

The lawsuits (there were two, with a third denied) started until like two years later.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[null]

Just now, joevar said:

so, good marketing saves the day in the end?

In some cases, yes. Poor marketing and untimely release dates led to Tellius (in my opinion, peak FE) selling relatively poorly, for example.

[joevar]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Kaga's name is still in the credits of Thracia. He left barely a month before release. Even if they wanted to I doubt they would've, or even could've, removed his name, since the game was just about finished.

The lawsuits (there were two, with a third denied) started until like two years later.

oh, okay, thanks for correcting me. i thought they removed his name, just like what happen to kojima and MGS5

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The lawsuits (there were two, with a third denied) started until like two years later.

Lawsuits over what?

[Etrurian emperor]

23 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

But the franchise became more mainstream and accessible with his departure. That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

Fire Emblem as a series certainly doesn't seem to have suffered any harm by Kaga's absence but I don't really think we can credit his absence for the success of the series. Fire Emblem only became somewhat mainstream very recently, over a decade after Kaga left. The first step to Fire Emblem becoming mainstream was leaving Japan but I don't think its Kaga who was responsible for keeping the series Japanese exclusive. Smash was largely responsible for Fire Emblem coming to the west and I think that would have happened with or without Kaga. 

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Lawsuits over what?

The basis of Nintendo/IS's lawsuits on Kaga mostly held that he had no right to make a game that was too similar to FE.

During the first lawsuit, one of their arguments was that Kaga was pretty much stealing the idea of Pegasus Knights, and that they owned it. They even trademarked the term "Pegasus Knight" before suing. Kaga's lawyer pointed out that humans riding on winged horses is an idea as old as mythology, so they didn't held the monopoly on it. Ultimately, Kaga won the first lawsuit.

Which made Nintendo/IS sue a second time. This one they won, but they couldn't force TearRing off the market. Eneterbrain ended up paying a fine, though.

Then, around the time Kaga made Berwick, Nintendo/IS tried to sue them a third time. However, the petition of lawsuit was rejected, and they didn't tried again after that.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[null]

2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fire Emblem as a series certainly doesn't seem to have suffered any harm by Kaga's absence but I don't really think we can credit his absence for the success of the series. Fire Emblem only became somewhat mainstream very recently, over a decade after Kaga left. The first step to Fire Emblem becoming mainstream was leaving Japan but I don't think its Kaga who was responsible for keeping the series Japanese exclusive. Smash was largely responsible for Fire Emblem coming to the west and I think that would have happened with or without Kaga. 

Fair enough. Although I would still contend that his design philosophies would have hindered FE's progression and appeal as a series going forward had he remained with IS.

[Samz707]

31 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Interesting ideas with relatively poor execution is a fairly accurate description of Kaga's work, imo.

Yes, and FE didn't start to have a noticeable rise in popularity until the years after he left IS. It wasn't immediate, that much is true.

But the franchise became more mainstream and accessible with his departure. That says something to me about how much good Kaga was doing FE as a series.

is it really fair to say that though?

Fe got more popular after it got Western releases, Which was mostly due to Smash brothers.

Granted I've not actually played a Kaga game yet (And Echoes technically makes a bunch of changes) but that feels like a bit of a unproven opinion, having an entire new market of English speakers is going to drum up a whole lot more sales than just being in Japanese.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Fair enough. Although I would still contend that his design philosophies would have hindered FE's progression and appeal as a series going forward had he remained with IS.

Are we sure? The success of Advance Wars in the West also contributed to sending FE overseas as well.

And for a long while, Mystery and Genealogy were FE's best selling games, even with more markets opening up for FE, so it's clear he was certainly doing something right.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[joevar]

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Granted I've not actually played a Kaga game yet (And Echoes technically makes a bunch of changes) but that feels like a bit of a unproven opinion, having an entire new market of English speakers is going to drum up a whole lot more sales than just being in Japanese

RD sold poorly despite also sold in west, and on Nintendo Wii , which is second best selling Nintendo console of all time.

FE enthusiast seems at odds with the market behaviour in general 🤔

Edited October 30, 2020 by joevar