Jump to content
BlackSymphony

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Benice said:

tbf this is the case for basically every Camus in the series. I guess I'm just used to Selena-tier Camuses...

Oh really? They get the same amount of set up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sooks1016 said:

Oh really? They get the same amount of set up?

Worse, frequently. Selena's (FE8) character basically boils down to "I know the emperor sucks, but you'll have to kill me anyways!" I'm pretty sure that Bryce also barely exists, but I didn't make it that far in PoR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, joevar said:

the question would be, why would he prevent people from resetting? is iron-manning even a thing back then?

Rogue, a game from 1980, had per madeath that explicitly prevents players from reloading after dying.

8 hours ago, Axie said:

who's even talking about preventing resetting by force?

You claimed Kaga was not smart because he didn’t apparently didn’t account for people being able to reset. I admit, I don’t know what that is implying.

Edit: A direct quote from you is “i will reset and you can't stop me, sir.” So I maintain that you definitely did.

Quote

the point is simple: kaga didn't want people to worry about deaths so much, but the very design of it (likeable characters) makes us worry far more than he intended us to.

Did you read the interview? Kaga said that strategy games are dry because you only care about winning, and don’t have any empathy for whether your units survive. He added RPG elements to make players emotionally invested in their units.
Incidentally, I don’t know who “us” is referring to so I’m not sure exactly what point you’re making.

Kaga repeatedly asserts there’s no one correct strategy to Fire Emblem. So when he says not to worry about characters dying so much, he means you don’t need to keep everyone alive to beat the game. Nevertheless, keeping everyone alive is one way to beat the game, and Kaga wants everyone to have the freedom to beat the game in whatever way that want. He absolutely intended for some players to try to keep everyone alive.

Quote

 

we don't need to trip over other people's words just to defend kaga)

We don’t need to misrepresent Kaga’s intentions to attack him, either.
 

Edited by Baldrick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

We don’t need to misrepresent Kaga’s intentions to attack him, either.

That’s a little far; I feel like some people just didn’t know.

7 minutes ago, Benice said:

Worse, frequently. Selena's (FE8) character basically boils down to "I know the emperor sucks, but you'll have to kill me anyways!" I'm pretty sure that Bryce also barely exists, but I didn't make it that far in PoR.

Well guess they all suck. F.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Benice said:

Worse, frequently. Selena's (FE8) character basically boils down to "I know the emperor sucks, but you'll have to kill me anyways!" I'm pretty sure that Bryce also barely exists, but I didn't make it that far in PoR.

You leave out "but the Emperor was really nice to my village once" part that makes Selena indebted to him. Her Camus problem is the archetype, as I see it, needs a character of a sympathetic personality and sympathetic backstory, and in addition, hesitation. A Camus must hesitate in their duties, though they obviously mustn't betray them for good.

Camus definitely hesitates, Eldigan hesitates, Bryce slightly hesitates. Selena Fluorspar practically never hesitates and instead slavishly declares her loyalty when it is suspected. I like the sympathetic aspect of her, thats solid; Camus and Eldigan are lacking in sympathetic backstories. But you need both the sympathy and hesitation to be good to be a good Camus. -Or so is my criterion.

Gale, like Selena, does he ever hesitate? You can't even say hiding Zeiss was hesitation, because Narcian was on the verge of losing his Wyvern General status at the time, and Zephiel probably would've tolerated hiding Zeiss to protect him from the scapegoating of an incompetent general.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sooks1016 said:

That’s a little far; I feel like some people just didn’t know.

That’s fair, I tend to be a little harsh in my posts.

But I provided interviews with Kaga in order to justify what I think he intended, and that person is just ignoring it and reiterating his opinion that contradicts the views Kaga expresses in his interview.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ryuke said:

But they are weak tank - it doesn't harm giving them a little more dex/res. They are already getting doubled. If you look at tier lists, everyone put them in the low and rightfully so.

I don't think you can find a single tier list for their respective games that rates Frederick and Seth below the highest available tier. Well, maybe Frederick will be below Robin, but that's it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't think you can find a single tier list for their respective games that rates Frederick and Seth below the highest available tier. Well, maybe Frederick will be below Robin, but that's it.

Oh I wasn't clear. By 'weak tank' I was referring to Raphae/Dedue/Balthus the knights in general are better in the older games (other than their terrible MOV)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Rogue, a game from 1980, had per madeath that explicitly prevents players from reloading after dying.

oh thats true, rogue and rogue-like that inspired by it have permadeath, but i guess the reasoning and situation different. because the game designet to feel fresh and challenging even after a couple restart by changing things each playthru. But in FE or similar games tho? you're basically treading the same ground again, thats just punishing without incentive for the general audience

 

5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

 I do not think a units gameplay performance and a units combat strength according to story need to align.

i wholeheartedly disagree, i can accept it if this is related to 3H tho. Since in 3 houses they are using "can-be-anything" approach, so the stat will always vary greatly. but in locked class FE games, it should be somewhat in line with their story. Or it would be like 3houses dumb cutscene again, ask @Samz707 for details

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, joevar said:

oh thats true, rogue and rogue-like that inspired by it have permadeath, but i guess the reasoning and situation different. because the game designet to feel fresh and challenging even after a couple restart by changing things each playthru. But in FE or similar games tho? you're basically treading the same ground again, thats just punishing without incentive for the general audience

 

Yeah, roguelikes don't really have mainstream appeal.

But I think the inability to reset doesn't necessarily have to be punishing like roguelikes are - you'd just need to provide more options to deal with permadeath. For example, in FE4 you can revive dead units for as long as you have access to Valkyrie and enough gold to repair it. You could also treat the lord like Julia in FE4 - she doesn't die when she's killed, she effectively has Casual mode enabled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Rogue, a game from 1980, had per madeath that explicitly prevents players from reloading after dying.

Ah yes, the traditional rogue-like, Rogue.rogue.png.53bacdf5fc3eeda7939231a0d522db42.png

--

To add to your point: The GBA games (yes, I know, post-Kaga) with their immediate autosaves would have had the capability to enforce Ironman, too, but didn't choose to do or even to add it as an optional game rule. I don't know if the old consoles would have had fast enough saves to do a similar thing.

The Kaga interviews are very interesting, actually. I always thought that ironman was supposed to be the "default" playing style, what with the high number of duplicate units for almost all given classes, and I think that holds up to a degree. Kaga does explicitely encourage players to accept character deaths in the 1994 interview, and in the 1990 one he says that dead characters are supposed to "impart a sense of gravity and seriousnes" - i.e. permadeaths are intended as a part of the gameplay. That said...

9 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Nevertheless, keeping everyone alive is one way to beat the game, and Kaga wants everyone to have the freedom to beat the game in whatever way that want. He absolutely intended for some players to try to keep everyone alive.

Indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Well I finally saw that Fire Emblem OVA with a friend today.

It was surprisingly decent I guess? It wasn't great but it wasn't the complete trainwreck I figured it would be, since everything I heard about it was how infamously awful it was.

(Also an Armor Knight seemingly fought with only his fists, Kaga did unarmed/gauntlets first!) (Yes I know Kaga probably wasn't involved.)

The fighting was surprisingly alright (admittingly I despise the "Jumping several buildings worth in the air" style of Modern FE CGI cutscenes like Awakening/ThreeHouses/Echoes and prefer it when it actually somewhat resembles actual sword play.) even if Caeda got made a damsel in distress who barely actually fought.

Also was surprised to see both Log traps and crossbows being used, kinda surprised FE hasn't had those yet, I'd like to send down logs crashing onto my enemies and kill them that way and I'd like crossbows to be a thing in some capacity.

 

Radiant Dawn had crossbows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Radiant Dawn had crossbows.

Yeah but I'd like them to be in more games. 

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

And Tellius had Boulders falling down and crashing into units. There are maps where Ai uses it and maps where player uses it.

oh that sounds pretty cool, I wish FE had more of these as a standard.

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You leave out "but the Emperor was really nice to my village once" part that makes Selena indebted to him. Her Camus problem is the archetype, as I see it, needs a character of a sympathetic personality and sympathetic backstory, and in addition, hesitation. A Camus must hesitate in their duties, though they obviously mustn't betray them for good.

Camus definitely hesitates, Eldigan hesitates, Bryce slightly hesitates. Selena Fluorspar practically never hesitates and instead slavishly declares her loyalty when it is suspected. I like the sympathetic aspect of her, thats solid; Camus and Eldigan are lacking in sympathetic backstories. But you need both the sympathy and hesitation to be good to be a good Camus. -Or so is my criterion.

Gale, like Selena, does he ever hesitate? You can't even say hiding Zeiss was hesitation, because Narcian was on the verge of losing his Wyvern General status at the time, and Zephiel probably would've tolerated hiding Zeiss to protect him from the scapegoating of an incompetent general.

selena could have been really good in delivering the contrast of "grado was a great country" and "grado is evil now", and they just needed to give her more time. the reason doesn't even need to be that different, just more examples of grado goodness would work.

eldigan is one of the better written parts of fe4 imo. he is the sympathetic backstory lol. he hesitates, he goes back and forth a bit, he ultimately is executed, he sets up things for gen 2. he doesn't really need a sympathetic backstory of his own, not more than "sigurd and i go way back #bffs" anyway.

galle was probably meant to change his mind and live, and it's apparent in the fact he stops attacking you if melady and zeiss talk to him in chapter 21 (even though the conversations have no mind-changing content), but then story-dies if you let him live regardless (or just isn't mentioned anymore? which is the same for this purpose). they removed his hesitation, which left us with not much. at least he is good looking!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah but I'd like them to be in more games. 

As would I. As would I. Gaiden has them in the enemy animations at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2020 at 12:49 PM, Florete said:

Florina's not from a game that uses the Strength stat for weight, though.

I never said that she was. Even in the games that use Con, a lot of characters with low Strength also have low Con, like Florina.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Berserked Units should be able to be put down by targeting them as an enemy.

I really shouldn't have to wait for Marcus to kill 4 of my Units because my healer with a Restore staff got silenced and the other got picked off, I'd rather lose only one unit than 4.

 

 

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Berserked Units should be able to be put down by targeting them as an enemy.

I really shouldn't have to wait for Marcus to kill 4 of my Units because my healer with a Restore staff got silenced and the other got picked off, I'd rather lose only one unit than 4.

 

 

There is no way that opinion is at all unpopular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

There is no way that opinion is at all unpopular.

You'd think so but I've seen games where the devs have gone so far as to remove the ability to kill enemy units while they're currently being mind controlled by you. (Like the X-com Reboot unlike the original X-com.) with the only way to kill them being AOE attacks that the game treats as you killing your own units by friendly fire. (The X-Com reboot even gives morale debuffs to your own units when mind controlled enemies die.)

(also I'm kinda the last commenter in that "Things you'd like to see in FE" threat and not sure if me posting a new post for this would be considered double posting.)

It could be neat if you weren't outright prevent but units close to that unit would actually suffer a Debuff from having to attack their friend. (Just don't stop me from cutting down that mind controlled unit with some other unit that wouldn't care about having to cut them down.)

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Berserked Units should be able to be put down by targeting them as an enemy.

I really shouldn't have to wait for Marcus to kill 4 of my Units because my healer with a Restore staff got silenced and the other got picked off, I'd rather lose only one unit than 4.

You can do this in Thracia. Not sure why they removed it in Binding Blade, especially since it’s otherwise so conducive to ironmans, and status staves aren’t as rare as FE7 and FE8. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Samz707 said:

It could be neat if you weren't outright prevent but units close to that unit would actually suffer a Debuff from having to attack their friend. (Just don't stop me from cutting down that mind controlled unit with some other unit that wouldn't care about having to cut them down.)

B-but the characters on our side, the good guys, are too nice and good for that! We have no flaws whatsoever!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tellius sucks. PoR is slow and boring. The characters are uninteresting and I could only really care for a couple of them (those being Mia and Kieran, the latter being solely because he’s a fun unit and not even because of his character), the map design is okay at best, bonus experience is an awful mechanic that ruins the potential of retaining any slight form of balance, and I HATE how 1-2 range dominates once again, making sword and bow users virtually useless without a horse. Radiant Dawn is a jumbled, unbalanced mess that’s just all over the place. The story sucks too. Only, I prefer Radiant Dawn simply because of its map design, challenge, and faster pace.

Roy and Eliwood are awesome characters.

FE6’s plot is really good. Its writing is actually not bad when you consider some of the rest in the series, such as FE7, FE10, or Fates.

FE6 is actually well-balanced compared to the other games. Most games like FE7 only get their “balance” from having weak enemies that literally anyone can destroy. You can use basically any unit in FE6. Even I’ve used both Wendy and Sophia in some of my runs, it just depends on how smart and careful you are about it. The only game I’d argue has better balance is Thracia.

I like the idea of mounting and dismounting, but I dislike the stat penalty. The point of using mounted units is for their movement and utility, not their stats. They shouldn’t have stats penalized when taking away their mount already removes what makes them mainly useful.

Lyn is my least favorite character in the entire franchise. I even prefer Eliwood’s animations to hers.

FE6 supports are really good. If it weren’t for the support system itself being pretty poor and inaccessible, I would actually defend the whole system and suggest bringing it back.

I don’t like using swordmasters, outside of maybe FE6 and FE10. Not only do they suck, but they never even get good like other units because of mostly being stuck with 1 range. I don’t love their animations either, save for when they use Astra.

FE4’s gameplay is really fun, despite being dominated heavily by horse units and virtually becoming a main lord solo run in efficient playthroughs. I really like its crit system. Rescue staff is also fun as hell.

Thracia’s soundtrack isn’t that great. Sure, the compositions are decent, but it’s not the type of music I can really bring myself to listen to. It kind of drives me crazy at times, if that makes any sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if anything, dismounting should be a net stat increase. a mount is a benefit; you should gain something if you don't have it.

not to sound like a swordgirl fan in a tier list thread in 2011 but fire emblem still hasn't quite figured out that higher movement will probably be worth whatever downsides they give to the classes, specially if there is also flight. they could stand to nerf them in various ways instead of just making them better. these are pre-3H concerns, but the only unpromoted class with more than one weapon is mounted? the highest defense class other than the useless armor knights flies? they gave the gamebreaking galeforce in awakening to the (female only but still) mixed flier i was going to use anyway?

movement alone makes fliers and mounts useful even if you stack the rest of the mechanics against them. i think, for starters, their double attack threshold should be higher than for footies. if footies need 4 AS more, mounts should need 5 more.

(i don't think this is all that unpopular lol but i got carried away)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Axie said:

if anything, dismounting should be a net stat increase. a mount is a benefit; you should gain something if you don't have it.

not to sound like a swordgirl fan in a tier list thread in 2011 but fire emblem still hasn't quite figured out that higher movement will probably be worth whatever downsides they give to the classes, specially if there is also flight. they could stand to nerf them in various ways instead of just making them better. these are pre-3H concerns, but the only unpromoted class with more than one weapon is mounted? the highest defense class other than the useless armor knights flies? they gave the gamebreaking galeforce in awakening to the (female only but still) mixed flier i was going to use anyway?

movement alone makes fliers and mounts useful even if you stack the rest of the mechanics against them. i think, for starters, their double attack threshold should be higher than for footies. if footies need 4 AS more, mounts should need 5 more.

(i don't think this is all that unpopular lol but i got carried away)

Ehh, I think dismounting should have penalties (basically turn the unit into a Soldier from Echoes) considering how you're A: already powerful and B: in the case of fliers, literally removing your counter, considering that Cavaliers aren't exactly known for being weak units even outside of movement speed.

I think re-adding Rescue then either A: Making it use Strength, B: Making CON a stat that can be levelled up or Strength counting as additional CON past a certain point or B: Making Body Rings give more than just 2 (Which isn't much for a stat that you can ONLY increase with a rare item) CON or more common so you could potentially level a flier into a Knight Rescuer could work, so you could get a Pegasus Knight/Cavalier/Wyvern flier that can fly around and drop a knight where he needs to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...