What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[null]

47 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

This is probably the coldest take in this thread.

And is one that I would agree with without hesitation. Yanderes in general have been awful characters in FE, as few of them as have been included in the series.

[Shrimpica]

3 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

And is one that I would agree with without hesitation. Yanderes in general have been awful characters in FE, as few of them as have been included in the series.

yeah i agree with it as well, but it's not an ''unpopular'' opinion.

FE (even back in the Kaga days) has problems writing main/major Female characters in general. Camilla is a different level of low of course.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Sooks said:

I was referring to her being one of the most evil playable characters in fe and being fanserviced the heck out of.

...okay maybe not one of them but she’s certainly evil. Either way I agree, I understand what they were going for with Camilla’s character, but frankly it doesn’t work, and she’s also really annoying, so that doesn’t help.

I'd say Peri's more evil than Camilla. And Lifis gives her a run for her money.

[Samz707]

3 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

And is one that I would agree with without hesitation. Yanderes in general have been awful characters in FE, as few of them as have been included in the series.

Yeah I don't really like what I've seen of Camilla/Tharja. (Thankfully I don't experience most fiction with Yandere.)

I think Faye's the best one but that's only because several factors (Not wanting to screw your obnoxious player insert, actually being surprisingly okay with Celica it seems and not doing horrible things to any innocents.), that combined with the English Translation kinda putting an emphasis on how she'd have to mentally messed up rather than treating it like a godawful joke in the Japanese version kinda helps. (If only a certain Purple haired character in Three Houses had the English translation play up how horrible her mental issues are rather than using as a constant bad joke that literally ruins several otherwise good supports because we gotta turn into a terrible comedy.)

I really don't like Player Self-insert romance, it almost never feels like anything more than pandering so maybe that colors my preference of Faye a decent bit and since that's like 90 percent of the reason it seems for including Avatars in Modern Fire Emblem it seems, it's part of why I really hate Robin/Byleth, since I really hate their romances in particular since there area frankly several awful implications for both characters in some of their romances that kinda make them deplorable for me. (AKA Romancing your students who are also more prone to liking you due to god magic, which is messed up in many ways.)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Samz707

[Etrurian emperor]

12 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

it's part of why I really hate Robin/Byleth, since I really hate their romances in particular since there area frankly several awful implications for both characters in some of their romances that kinda make them deplorable for me. (AKA Romancing your students who are also more prone to liking you due to god magic, which is messed up in many ways.)

What are the bad implications regarding Robin? They aren't much older then most cast members, with the exception of kids like Ricken or Lissa, and considering they're just a hobo Chrom picked off the street they don't have an inherent position of power over the rest of the army either. 

[Samz707]

21 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

What are the bad implications regarding Robin? They aren't much older then most cast members, with the exception of kids like Ricken or Lissa, and considering they're just a hobo Chrom picked off the street they don't have an inherent position of power over the rest of the army either. 

Ricken's underage and Nowi is too much like a kid for it to sit right for me. (And the First person CG confession art sure as hell doesn't help make it feel any less creepy.)

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Samz707

[Sooks]

36 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

(AKA Romancing your students who are also more prone to liking you due to god magic, which is messed up in many ways.)

Are you implying that they’re magically drawn to Byleth, like their magic god powers unknowingly make people like them?

[Samz707]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Are you implying that they’re magically drawn to Byleth, like their magic god powers unknowingly make people like them?

I've seen that brought up as an explanation of the Avatar-worship as a spoiler thing and if that's true that adds a distinctly mind control spin on it a bit for me, because if Sothis crest is the reason why Bernadetta, a major reclusive and paranoid person, can start opening up to Byleth way faster than anyone else in their C support, then you wonder how willing it makes people who aren't reclusives and paranoid and frankly that's a level that makes any of marriage make me wonder how much is actual consent and how much is influenced by the crest and kinda adds even more "This is wrong" vibes for me.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Samz707

[Etrurian emperor]

6 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Ricken's underage and Nowi is too much like a kid for it to sit right for me. (And the First person CG confession art sure as hell doesn't help make it feel any less creepy.)

 

 

True though to be fair with Ricken its made clear that at least Robin and Cordelia wait for him to become an adult first. 

But Corrin's a better example of the player character awkwardly  being able to marry the kids. Robin can do it but the number of characters is rather small. The Fates cast on average is younger with a large chunk of them being underage and a lot of those being Corrin's family members to boot. There's also no wacky time traveling to make things less awkward. We know for a fact that Corrin doesn't wait for Elise to turn into an actual adult instead of a technical one. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[Sooks]

Just now, Samz707 said:

I've seen that brought up as an explanation of the Avatar-worship as a spoiler thing and if that's true that adds a distinctly mind control spin on it a bit for me, because if Sothis crest is the reason why Bernadetta, a major reclusive and paranoid person, can start opening up to Byleth way faster than anyone else in their C support, then you wonder how willing it makes people who aren't reclusives and paranoid and frankly that's a level that makes any sort of sexual activity post marriage kinda horrible.

....I’ve played all four routes at least twice and I have never ever seen even an implication of that, that has to just be theorizing, and even then makes no sense considering they don’t actually have any god powers until well into the story, the goddess is just sort of chilling with them.

[Axie]

14 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

yeah i agree with it as well, but it's not an ''unpopular'' opinion.

well, i haven't been on the board in a while and camilla was top 10 overall in CYL. it's not exactly a popular opinion either lol. tharja being disliked in awakening was not much more than a vocal minority either.

also i have grown to be fine with avatars in some gameplay reasons, but the dating sim part has got to go, because it ruins the writing of supports. robin was actually the least terrible one. all the corrin ones twisting the backstory like a pretzel to justify him marrying a hoshidan royal without it being incest are the woooooorst. byleth being a progessor automatically makes everything kind of creepy, god magic or no god magic. don't date your teachers, you guys.

if you must have an avatar, go back to FE6-12 supports. i reiterate kris was  a perfectly serviceable avatar.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Axie

[ping]

49 minutes ago, Axie said:

all the corrin ones twisting the backstory like a pretzel to justify him marrying a hoshidan royal without it being incest are the woooooorst.

Fire Emblem is here to offer you whatever form of cursed romance upsets you the least.

Characters like Camilla or Tharja are probably better described as "divisive" than "unpopular". It's easier to have a strong opinion on them than on characters that are less in-your-face (you'll probably find fewer 10000 word essays on why Noah or Sigrun or Belf or Stahl are either the best character ever written or RUINED FE FOREVER).

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

17 hours ago, Axie said:

not sure how unpopular it is but camilla suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. fanservice for fanservice, i really liked tharja in awakening and i thought she was more nuanced and engaging than people give it credit for, even if she ended up popular just because of the fanservice, but camilla is just boringly written on top of her painfully silly fanservicey design

All of what you´ve said against Camilla has also been brought up against Tharja I believe? So, the quetion is whether you prefer the creepy silent obsession as opposed to the very outspoken and openly admitted obsession. Imagine however, the possibilities of discontent if Camilla!Rhajat existed!

1 hour ago, Axie said:

well, i haven't been on the board in a while and camilla was top 10 overall in CYL.

I wonder whether the people that play Heroes are the same people that have played Fates - or rather how many more people (with overlap) play Heroes and how Camilla is portrayed in heroes (without Birthrights catwalk of w/e that was for example).

1 hour ago, Axie said:

i reiterate kris was  a perfectly serviceable avatar.

I thought Kris is disliked because every character in the game overly appreciates them?

1 hour ago, Axie said:

but the dating sim part has got to go,

I agree. No more tea drinking, no more watching people eat over and over and over again, no more play fetch, no more face petting. Just a "Ding! C-Support unlocked".

[null]

1 hour ago, Axie said:

but the dating sim part has got to go,

Eh...I don't see an issue with including the paired endings and tea time as part of building supports, personally. Considering you can invite more than just the marriageable candidates to tea, and that it's entirely optional, I don't see the harm in leaving that in. Looking at 3H's supports in general, very rarely do any of the supports before the S support even mention romance. They're simply two characters bonding platonically over one reason or another, so a paired ending is basically fanservice for the player (a positive form of fanservice, imo).

I wouldn't even defend it if it were all completely optional, but it is. You can go straight from battle to battle without ever using the tea time, bonding bites, etc. The support points in battle should be perfectly enough, especially if you use auxiliary battles. But again that's just a matter of personal opinion.

[Sooks]

40 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Eh...I don't see an issue with including the paired endings and tea time as part of building supports, personally. Considering you can invite more than just the marriageable candidates to tea, and that it's entirely optional, I don't see the harm in leaving that in.

I see your logic there, and I agree. It’s why I don’t think Casual mode should go, I actually like it because I feel like it leaves a lot more people willing to try the games.

[LJ_Reflet]

I feel like the whole "dating" part of the support system with Byleth would have been much more excusable had he been invited to the monastery as a student rather than a teacher--and it probably would have made more sense because I was wondering the whole time why would they hire a completely random stranger with no experience in a teaching setting? But that's just me LOL. I mean, Byleth is technically a year younger than Mercedes, so it wouldn't not make sense for him to be a student.

but you know, **~~anime~~**

On the other hand, the support system for Fates was definitely the worst in terms of story. They only allow for one gay/bi option per campaign, but you can marry your actual siblings and their children? smh. The children were pretty random as well, but I do have a soft spot for a few of them. I much preferred the timeskip over the child system because of how poorly executed it was in Fates.

 

an in terms of unpopular opinions: i actually liked the traditional Japanese themes in Birthright even though it strayed away from the typical medieval theme of the other FE games oop

Edited November 19, 2020 by Tenma

[null]

5 minutes ago, Tenma said:

I feel like the whole "dating" part of the support system with Byleth would have been much more excusable had he been invited to the monastery as a student rather than a teacher--and it probably would have made more sense because I was wondering the whole time why would they hire a completely random stranger with no experience in a teaching setting? But that's just me LOL. I mean, Byleth is technically a year younger than Mercedes, so it wouldn't not make sense for him to be a student.

but you know, **~~anime~~**

Fair enough, although I'd say that Byleth being around their age anyway makes it a non-issue, teacher or otherwise. They even explicitly state that they want the class to view them as a friend rather than a teacher. So that familiarity isn't contrived or unexpected.

[Jotari]

14 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

What are the bad implications regarding Robin? They aren't much older then most cast members, with the exception of kids like Ricken or Lissa, and considering they're just a hobo Chrom picked off the street they don't have an inherent position of power over the rest of the army either. 

Well Robin does sort of hold everyone's life in their hand by being the tactician. I'd certainly have reservations going out onto the battle field and following through on their strategy the morning after a couple's argument the night before!

17 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Fair enough, although I'd say that Byleth being around their age anyway makes it a non-issue, teacher or otherwise. They even explicitly state that they want the class to view them as a friend rather than a teacher. So that familiarity isn't contrived or unexpected.

It's the class that says they want Byleth to be a friend more than a teacher (cause Byleth never really says anything at all). And as an actual teacher, I really wish there was a no option there.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jotari

[null]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's the class that says they want Byleth to be a friend more than a teacher (cause Byleth never really says anything at all). And as an actual teacher, I really wish there was a no option there.

Actually, there is a dialogue option where Byleth specifically states how they do not mind being viewed as a friend.

 

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Actually, there is a dialogue option where Byleth specifically states how they do not mind being viewed as a friend.

 

Yeah that's exactly what I was referencing. I wish there was a no option on that.

[Shrimpica]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah that's exactly what I was referencing. I wish there was a no option on that.

Why not?

A friendly teacher is better than a teacher on a pedestal

[null]

If Byleth was in their 30s or someone older, then I'd understand objecting to it. But as it stands, they're roughly around the age range of the students. I still see no issue with it. I always viewed them as a teacher-student hybrid of sorts anyway, since they can be taught by other teachers themselves. Kind of like a trainee instructor.

[ping]

A relationship between teacher and student is never on equal footing, regardless of age differences. A teacher is given a great deal of authority over their pupils and honestly, a teacher who tries to act like this isn't the case is either naive or deceptive.

I'm still largely in the dark about how 3H develops past the point where Deltre stopped his LP twice, so take this with a grain of salt, but I honestly didn't like at all how Bylith acts (and is treated) like they're one of the pupils in most interactions - it seems to me that the writers wanted to have the cake (since you're the teacher, there's an in-universe reason why you can make the characters take certain classes) and eat it (gotta have your waifu/husbando and wacky anime interactions).

[Shrimpica]

25 minutes ago, ping said:

A relationship between teacher and student is never on equal footing, regardless of age differences. A teacher is given a great deal of authority over their pupils and honestly, a teacher who tries to act like this isn't the case is either naive or deceptive.

In 3H most of the students have power over Byleth considering they are royals or high ranking nobles

Edited November 19, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well Robin does sort of hold everyone's life in their hand by being the tactician. I'd certainly have reservations going out onto the battle field and following through on their strategy the morning after a couple's argument the night before!

What? No I'm not angry that you were too shy to go out with me, Olivia. Its just really tactically sound to send you to the front lines without any weapons!