What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Sidereal Wraith]

6 hours ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

Themes like this one below should be added to a regular Fire Emblem game. This one could work well as final boss theme tbh.

If Fire Emblem goes creative with its gameplay, then it also should apply to the music.

...We still live under the shadow of D'Sparil.

[joevar]

final boss theme? final boss in J-Pop group contest maybe? 😛

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I mean Fire Emblem already has become a waifu simulator, so bringing in J-Pop really wouldn't go beyond the scope anymore.

[joevar]

1 hour ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

I mean Fire Emblem already has become a waifu simulator, so bringing in J-Pop really wouldn't go beyond the scope anymore.

whoever thought SMTxFE was a good idea should get a raise then. i want this to get sequel more than warrior tbh

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I haven't played Warriors (not being interested in this genre), but I like TMS a lot, so I wouldn't mind a sequel.

However I would prefer a sequel was roundbased like Devil Survivor to be closer to Fire Emblem's gameplay.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Jules Necrofantasia

[Jotari]

21 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

But did you played 19xx? Since that chapter all but outright tells you that:

  Hide contents

Nergal is their father. That's why they're half-dragons.

 

Assuming Nergal actually is a human, which seems fair given he worked with Athos to research the dragons. On the other hand he was also already five hundred years old by that point, and that's before he started stealing quintessence to extend is life. I don't think they intentionally wrote it that way, but Nergal being a dragon who just sort of forgot that fact actually fixes some questionable aspects of the plot (not just his age but so the discrepancies between Nils/Ninian and Sophia).

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Assuming Nergal actually is a human, which seems fair given he worked with Athos to research the dragons. On the other hand he was also already five hundred years old by that point, and that's before he started stealing quintessence to extend is life. I don't think they intentionally wrote it that way, but Nergal being a dragon who just sort of forgot that fact actually fixes some questionable aspects of the plot (not just his age but so the discrepancies between Nils/Ninian and Sophia).

Then how do you explain Athos and Brammimond also being alive without Quintessence stealing for almost a thousand years? Also secret dragons who committed Malinchism? I'm pretty sure they're human yet also found a way to live for centuries, so why not Nergal as well?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[ping]

27 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Then how do you explain Athos and Brammimond also being alive without Quintessence stealing for almost a thousand years? Also secret dragons who committed Malinchism? I'm pretty sure they're human yet also found a way to live for centuries, so why not Nergal as well?

~~ Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Blade ~~
You found a plothole? You want to make reason of it? PSYCHE! Your headcanon doesn't work because of this other plothole! Plotholes upon plotholes! It's plotholes all the way down.

(just to be 100% clear - I don't mean to make fun of your post at all, just of how frequently FE7 throws inexplainable stuff at you. A human living for a millenium should be somehow justified in the Eliban lore, but NOPE! The writers just thought it would be cool to directly include some of the eight in the story and hoped that nobody would think too hard about it)

[Etrurian emperor]

33 minutes ago, ping said:

(just to be 100% clear - I don't mean to make fun of your post at all, just of how frequently FE7 throws inexplainable stuff at you. A human living for a millenium should be somehow justified in the Eliban lore, but NOPE! The writers just thought it would be cool to directly include some of the eight in the story and hoped that nobody would think too hard about it)

A wizard did it. Its no coincident that just about every long lived figure on Elibe is a mage. Roland and the other Heroes just died when they were supposed to, aside from Elimine who supposedly got beamed up to heaven. Sorcerers just living for a really long time seems pretty sensible and Elibe as a whole seems to have some ''grander'' magic then the other continents. 

[ping]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

A wizard did it. Its no coincident that just about every long lived figure on Elibe is a mage. Roland and the other Heroes just died when they were supposed to, aside from Elimine who supposedly got beamed up to heaven. Sorcerers just living for a really long time seems pretty sensible and Elibe as a whole seems to have some ''grander'' magic then the other continents. 

Ehhh... Unless I'm missing some obscure support convo (while I still think that Ninian's revival is quite an asspull, the idea of a Raise Dead spell is at least present in Renault's supports), the ability to increase one's lifespan via magic is never, ever touched upon. Athos just says that "The world is full of mysteries", Lyn gives the useful input that a thousand years is a long time, and then we move on.

I don't expect a detailed explanation of the ritual, but a magic property of that magnitude being introduced in compete isolation from everything else we know about magic is, at best, unsatisfying.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, ping said:

I don't expect a detailed explanation of the ritual, but a magic property of that magnitude being introduced in compete isolation from everything else we know about magic is, at best, unsatisfying.

Considering I played a different game in my youth that said "they used magic to halt their internal clocks", for myself I must've assumed they applied the same premise in FE7.

Also, Pent offered a droplet of additional information on the matter:

Pent: Ha ha… There’s no need to worry. Lord Athos has long ago surpassed the needs of human flesh. He has need of neither food nor rest.

 

How would anti-aging magic work? Well, IRL, one cause of aging is shortening of telomeres in cells over time, if you could slow that down, maybe you could slow down aging significantly. Magic that could add to telomere length could possibly outright reverse the process. We know FE is too primitive to realize telomeres exist, but if they create magic that does that without them knowing how, then it's no different from cavemen making fire and not understanding the chemical reaction of combustion. You'd want magic to decrease or halt genetic mutations too, otherwise cancer could be an issue.

As for how not to need food and sleep, not all animals require sleep IRL the way we humans need so much to properly function. Magic would merely have to alter our brains to such a state. No food? Perhaps magical energies suffice for nutrition instead? Perhaps magic enables one to extract relevant live-nourishing molecules from the air and or convert the useless compounds taken from the air into useful ones?

-Just lightly thinking of possibilities because I want to. Not seriously trying to establish one for FE7.

[Axie]

as much as i love to endlessly shit on BlaBla's catastrophe of a script and how it's an unjustifiable mess in every aspect, i actually have a new unpopular opinion to add

birthright is underrated in its gameplay AND conquest isn't even some high point of map design for the franchise as i see it get treated by the fandom. tears??? i think both are closer in the gameplay aspect than anyone gives them credit for, and both are pretty good, probably above average for the franchise. not sure which fire emblem game has the best map design, actually. maybe it is just conquest, but it would be close, and then i'd calmly accept birthright as second best.

on the other hand, i also think birthright's storyline has an argument for being almost as disastrous as conquest's, which gets more attention for being horrible, so i am not sure which of the two games i like better overall.

[Sooks]

Conquest’s story is bad, whereas Birthright introduces a filler arc that gets resolved at the end of the chapter most chapters. This leads to conquest being more entertaining anyway (and actually, the story was GOOD in the first two chapters. After that it was just standard fe fair, it’s chapter 15 when the game takes a complete nose dive and never comes back up, although it starts declining in 14, imo).

[joevar]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

aside from Elimine who supposedly got beamed up to heaven

lol. she's not beamed to heaven, she clearly used the Aureola tome to make it grander and died by exhaustion

Athos clearly a hermit. even in real world history, theres some tales (real or not dont matter) of hermit that lives long life because of their lifestyle. is there even mentioning athos uses quintessence to prolong life?

Bramimond long life can be justified using "he's hibernating in that Seals tomb, and only occasionally wake up if something or someone happen to come" logic. i mean, what else would he do deep in there? playing as dungeon master and/or playing 3D chess with his sentries? XD

But Nergal tho???? if only they introduce Nergal, say, a several decades after Scouring, not 500 year after it. then it would be easier to stomach. since he found life extending method 500 year later, then why is he not death by then if the method only found then.

and funnily enough i dont think theres any indication bramimond participate in research like athos and nergal, but can revive someone on the spot. basically they just spend eternity to find a way not knowing bramimond already has one method LOL

Edited December 29, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Then how do you explain Athos and Brammimond also being alive without Quintessence stealing for almost a thousand years? Also secret dragons who committed Malinchism? I'm pretty sure they're human yet also found a way to live for centuries, so why not Nergal as well?

They have legendary weapons that broke the seasons. They get a pass. Especially Braimmond who doesn't even seem to still be alive.

[Acacia Sgt]

31 minutes ago, joevar said:

But Nergal tho???? if only they introduce Nergal, say, a several decades after Scouring, not 500 year after it. then it would be easier to stomach. since he found life extending method 500 year later, then why is he not death by then if the method only found then.

Actually, there's no mention Nergal discovered life-extension methods via Quintessence. This is all Athos says about it:

Athos:
“Ah, Nergal… He took the dragons’ knowledge… He learned the art of stealing the essence from living creatures and turning it into power. …It was terrible. When we discovered what he was doing, the elders and I tried to persuade him to stop. But the power bewitched him, and he was deaf to our pleas. He started with small creatures and grew ever more confident. Then, he began draining the quintessence of humans. The villagers and I joined forces and…defeated him. Or so we thought, but…”

Eliwood:
“……”

Athos:
“After he was banished from Arcadia, Nergal fled to Bern. He increased his power slowly to avoid our eye. Using quintessence, he made his “puppets,” the morphs. They’re bewitching in form, with intellects beyond human. I’m sure you’ve laid eyes on them yourselves. Jet black hair, pale complexion, and blood-red lips… Their most striking features are their glittering gold eyes.”

Only talks about power and the morphs.

In fact, he also said this:

Athos:
“The dragons’ libraries were a dream come true to us. We studied their language and history with unbridled passion. A century, then two… Time passed in an eye’s blink. And yet, slowly, our thoughts turned down different paths.”

Not even five hundred years ago. Nergal only began his Quintessence stuff around two hundred years after arriving to Arcadia.

The only time Quintessence is talked about avoiding aging is this:

Nils:
“…Nergal uses quintessence on himself as well. His wounds heal quickly. …His body does not age.”

Now here's the thing. Even if what Nils said is true... is that truly the only way to prolong one's life? By all accounts, using Quintessence seems to be only one method. Before that, Athos and Nergal spent at least seven hundred years employing another method, before Nergal switched to Quintessence. Or perhaps started using Quintessence in addition to the other method.

We also can't discard Nils may be wrong. He only thinks Nergal's lack of aging comes from Quintessence, but it's not like he knows the full extent of what Nergal does with Quintessence now, does it? Or even watched him long enough. Only months at the most, since he says that not long after escaping from the Dread Isle.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[joevar]

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Actually, there's no mention Nergal discovered life-extension methods via Quintessence. This is all Athos says about it:

Athos:
“Ah, Nergal… He took the dragons’ knowledge… He learned the art of stealing the essence from living creatures and turning it into power. …It was terrible. When we discovered what he was doing, the elders and I tried to persuade him to stop. But the power bewitched him, and he was deaf to our pleas. He started with small creatures and grew ever more confident. Then, he began draining the quintessence of humans. The villagers and I joined forces and…defeated him. Or so we thought, but…”

Eliwood:
“……”

Athos:
“After he was banished from Arcadia, Nergal fled to Bern. He increased his power slowly to avoid our eye. Using quintessence, he made his “puppets,” the morphs. They’re bewitching in form, with intellects beyond human. I’m sure you’ve laid eyes on them yourselves. Jet black hair, pale complexion, and blood-red lips… Their most striking features are their glittering gold eyes.”

Only talks about power and the morphs.

In fact, he also said this:

Athos:
“The dragons’ libraries were a dream come true to us. We studied their language and history with unbridled passion. A century, then two… Time passed in an eye’s blink. And yet, slowly, our thoughts turned down different paths.”

Not even five hundred years ago. Nergal only began his Quintessence stuff around two hundred years after arriving to Arcadia.

The only time Quintessence is talked about avoiding aging is this:

Nils:
“…Nergal uses quintessence on himself as well. His wounds heal quickly. …His body does not age.”

Now here's the thing. Even if what Nils said is true... is that truly the only way to prolong one's life? By all accounts, using Quintessence seems to be only one method. Before that, Athos and Nergal spent at least seven hundred years employing another method, before Nergal switched to Quintessence. Or perhaps started using Quintessence in addition to the other method.

We also can't discard Nils may be wrong. He only thinks Nergal's lack of aging comes from Quintessence, but it's not like he knows the full extent of what Nergal does with Quintessence now, does it? Or even watched him long enough. Only months at the most, since he says not long after escaping from the Dread Isle.

all those can be summed up by: the lore contradict itself. 'nuff said.

oh also 500 year is just me guessing. i dont know the exact number. so yeah. its bound to be wrong (the number)

rather than taking it seriously, i would just treat it as a bad joke. the whole plot that is (not the gameplay) but the manga still tops being the biggest asspull. granted almost no one takes it seriously

Edited December 29, 2020 by joevar

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The only time Quintessence is talked about avoiding aging is this:

Nils:
“…Nergal uses quintessence on himself as well. His wounds heal quickly. …His body does not age.”

Now here's the thing. Even if what Nils said is true... is that truly the only way to prolong one's life? By all accounts, using Quintessence seems to be only one method. Before that, Athos and Nergal spent at least seven hundred years employing another method, before Nergal switched to Quintessence. Or perhaps started using Quintessence in addition to the other method.

We also can't discard Nils may be wrong. He only thinks Nergal's lack of aging comes from Quintessence, but it's not like he knows the full extent of what Nergal does with Quintessence now, does it? Or even watched him long enough. Only months at the most, since he says that not long after escaping from the Dread Isle.

Interesting. It seems like a fairly common fantasy trope: "villain steals life force from others to preserve their own youth". In FE7, the former is satisfied, but the latter is, at best, impled. The more explicit use of quintessence is in building an army of morphs (and trusting nobody). Also, something to do with dragons. "Nergal has lived for so long by stealing ife energy" makes sense - except, as you pointed out, that longevity preceded the discovery of quintessence.

My best theory is, Nergal's longevity (and possibly Athos') also comes from some "secret dragon knowledge" in Arcadia. Or, something about the environment of Arcadia itself. Which Athos didn't disclose, because he didn't want to risk inspiring lust for a "fountain of youth". But yeah, I'm sewing together tatters of a long-neglected flag here.

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

My best theory is, Nergal's longevity (and possibly Athos') also comes from some "secret dragon knowledge" in Arcadia. Or, something about the environment of Arcadia itself. Which Athos didn't disclose, because he didn't want to risk inspiring lust for a "fountain of youth". But yeah, I'm sewing together tatters of a long-neglected flag here.

Except it took five hundred years for Athos to encounter the village (that he later relocated to where Arcadia now sits), so unless it's from pre-Scouring, the secret can't involve dragons. Personally, my theory would be it's something you can do with dark magic, but once you've dwelved deep enough in its secrets. What all three of Nergal, Athos, and Brammimond have in common is being well versed in dark magic. Though with Athos, it's more an inference from his S rank in all four types of magic.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Venger_06]

2 hours ago, Axie said:

as much as i love to endlessly shit on BlaBla's catastrophe of a script and how it's an unjustifiable mess in every aspect, i actually have a new unpopular opinion to add

birthright is underrated in its gameplay AND conquest isn't even some high point of map design for the franchise as i see it get treated by the fandom. tears??? i think both are closer in the gameplay aspect than anyone gives them credit for, and both are pretty good, probably above average for the franchise. not sure which fire emblem game has the best map design, actually. maybe it is just conquest, but it would be close, and then i'd calmly accept birthright as second best.

on the other hand, i also think birthright's storyline has an argument for being almost as disastrous as conquest's, which gets more attention for being horrible, so i am not sure which of the two games i like better overall.

Hard agree. Birthright is probably the most underrated game in the franchise, as it stands as the middle child of Fates. About its story, basically it is Shadow Dragon bogged down by Fates storytelling. The problem is that the game tries to play safe, and things barely happen. You just march you army into Nohr for 90% of the game. Conquest at least tried to be something different. However, it went so wrong that you could argue that they shouldn't even have tried.

[Sooks]

What do you guys like about Birthright’s gameplay? I don’t remember enjoying it that much (not hating it either, I was basically like “meh. This is Fire Emblem.” but it might warrant a replay. And on hard, those were in the days when I played on normal mode.

[Interdimensional Observer]

12 minutes ago, Sooks said:

What do you guys like about Birthright’s gameplay? I don’t remember enjoying it that much (not hating it either, I was basically like “meh. This is Fire Emblem.” but it might warrant a replay. And on hard, those were in the days when I played on normal mode.

My memory of it goes as follows, mostly based on Lunatic BR:

• Earlygame- Easy, but not entirely so. The Izumo chapter has some tricky first turns I thought. I like it overall.
• Midgame- Leo, Sevenfold Sanctuary, one that consists of nothing but BDSM golems in some kind of cave. Those three chapters are very and low points in the BR midgame, which has a few decent chapters, like the Cheve fight, but it is lacking.
• Lategame- Defined as starting with the Shura battle. After the rather weak midgame, things get tough again. However, BR becomes a battle royale of countless high-stat Nohrians against your mostly squishy Hoshidans in overwhelmingly open terrain, thats poor map design. Camilla does let you hide in alleyways, but that doesn't exactly compensate for her constant kabooms. Killing Xander is toooooo easy in contrast to the headache Ryoma can be on CQ. 

The mid-lategame issues stifle the game a little too much for me. It doesn't making training units very fun when I can't quite enjoy using them when they've reached their full blossoming. The pathetic midgame foes mean there is nothing with substance to test my trainees against. The plain and chaotic lategame makes me want to cheese it survive, and that doesn't mean well for unit use.

I'll add that BR's Paralogues are underwhelming as well. The CQ children often have neat goodies tucked away in their chapters, and some shared route kids do too, the BR children get no such niceties, the maps exist for EXP basically and nothing else.

[joevar]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

What all three of Nergal, Athos, and Brammimond have in common is being well versed in dark magic. Though with Athos, it's more an inference from his S rank in all four types of magic.

since athos have S rank even in dark magic, so Bramimond should have SS rank in Dark magic,, heh

but again like i said, bramimond have duty to protect the seal (dunno who impose this, maybe voluntarily, who knows?) so its not like he stays awake or roam the land with his longevity. might as well a mummy with thick robe + veil that can talk and move using *MAGIC*. or just sleep like a certain dragon and not really age. in short, whatever nergal and athos method and research finding, its going to be different case with bramimond. (if its found pre-scouring, there should be another long lasting Divine General) and nergal should have lived a couple more minutes just to see that bramimond can revive a person just to spite on his lifetime research beaten easily by someone secluded in a tomb 😛

Edited December 29, 2020 by joevar

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Sooks said:

What do you guys like about Birthright’s gameplay? I don’t remember enjoying it that much (not hating it either, I was basically like “meh. This is Fire Emblem.” but it might warrant a replay. And on hard, those were in the days when I played on normal mode.

My memory of it is that far too many of the chapters are either route, or kill boss, with very few (if any) side objectives. A few more details, enemy skills don't become relevant until the wolfskin chapter, and there is a noticeable difficulty jump around chapter 23-34, and the mid-late game boss kill chapters having sigh inducingly many reinforcement got a bit cliche...

[Axie]

conquest doesn't have THAT many non-rout/seize objectives (though most FEs don't and i am sure conquest is above average on the matter, people just act like it's almost a different new objective every chapter or something). birthright's maps aren't THAT open. this often repeated praise/criticism reads almost entirely as reactionary to how badly designed awakening's maps were, and birthright just happened to be slightly closer to awakening while still being nothing like it at all.

objectives are overrated anyway. BinBla is entirely seize and that's fine, gaidens aside. it would be ideal to have multiple objectives but it's better to have well designed maps around said objective than badly designed multiple objectives.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Axie