What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

E

Edited February 13, 2021 by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

What do you enjoy about the maps in three houses?

I’m not sure how sad this will sound, but a lot of that just comes from the nature of the gameplay of the rest of the series. None of the maps are so open that there’s no real strategy in how you move other than having your best units in front, the ambush spawns aren’t on hard mode (for the most part, and we have divine pulse to ease the frustration- which isn’t really good design, but we’re merely talking about my enjoyment). Maps like both of the fights at gronder, the remire village one, the battle at garreg mach, the endgames, the battle at the tailtean plains, the enbarr infiltration and probably more all require or strongly encourage if you want all the rewards (remire) you to think a lot about how you will progress with them not being boring open maps. That’s... my low standard.

[Venger_06]

Now comes a real unpopular opinion about Echoes: its story is mediocre to be called a "return to form after the shit that were Awakening and Fates” and the only reason to play it is because it looks like a JRPG gameplay-wise. I love JRPGs, so I don't care if the maps are "bad" and it's one of my overall favorites.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Maof06

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

E

Edited February 13, 2021 by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[scigeek101]

2 hours ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

.

I talk to much on these treads lol. 

 

I agree with most all of it. 

 

The monestary really felt half assed. I remember getting to the winter and being like "they don't even bother to do different seasons" it's disappointing as sin. A menu would have been just as good. 

 

My castle was maybe one of the best parts of Fates. I wish they had developed that more. I like the idea of customizing your own map and being able to do some PVP on it. 

 

Overall I don't think the general idea behind the monestary or explorable camp is necessarily bad. But you need to have a variety of locations or a much smaller location that has everything closer rather than just going through the same damn building 50+ times on the course of a playthrough. 

 

Monestary should have had at least 4 different seasonal changes to make the game seem like time was advancing. And it really should have just gone away in the 2nd half and just been replaced with a war encampment. A few tents in a 10th of the space could easily have the same stuff as the monestary crammed in there. Plus you could just swap out the landscapes and make it seem like you are traveling even if you are just using the same tents over and over again. 

 

It vastly outwore it's welcome post timeskip. 

[Venger_06]

32 minutes ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

I swear I’m not interrogating you, just asking my questions outright to prevent a back and forth of unproductive discussions.

No problem, I also think it's better this way.

33 minutes ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

For FE, I don’t think it’s mediocre. For a JRPG? It’s standard. Mediocre essentially, but won’t be criticized for it. 
I don’t know if that’s what you intended to state, but I’m sure it’s the latter (that you think it’s mediocre overall).

I’m curious as to why that is? I actually have big problems with the story, but I also really likes it’s high points as well, which puts it above a lot of other FE titles. The problems are pretty standard for FE too in my opinion, which makes the good things stand out even more.

FE has really mediocre stories overall, with few exceptions, especially comparing to other acclaimed JRPGs. Echoes story is even good for FE standards, but some people hail it as a return to form after Fateswakening, even though they share the same mistakes, although in different ways. I can mention the poor worldbuilding between Rigel, Zofia and its inhabitants, lacking to show how is the relationship between their peoples and their religions, Alm's character and the whole noble vs commoner thing (which gives me Naruto and Bleach flashbacks) and the entirety of Acts 4 and 5 (poor Celica, the writers did her dirty). Also, while it has high points, it lacks proper buildup and the story moves on so fast that it falls flat.

33 minutes ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

I wonder what you mean by “looks like a JRPG”? Isn’t all of FE an JSRPG? Or do you mean JRPG in particular?

Are you referring to the graphic design? Character design? Or is it gameplay and the wording was off?

And how important is that “aesthetic” to you when gaging your enjoyment of FE?

Yes, I think I used the wrong expression. I've improved the wording a little bit now. I was talking about gameplay.

It's true that Fire Emblem is a S(J)RPG, but there's a sliding scale between focus on stragety and focus on RPG mechanics. We can, for example, put Shadow Dragon on one hand, since it lacks a bunch of mechanics  present in other games, meaning that the appeal of the game is a "purer" strategic gameplay. On the other hand, games like FE4, Awakening, Fates in general and Sacred Stones have as appeal common RPG mechanics like grinding, unit building, a myriad of classes and reclassing, etc., and they focus a bit more on the story and the characters. Gaiden/Echoes is at the opposite end of this scale, compared to Shadow Dragon, as it is the game that most resembles an "RPG on a grid", a "genre" that Final Fantasy Tactics popularized for example. I always liked JRPGs, so these games that I talked about are the ones that stuck me the most.

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Alm's character and the whole noble vs commoner thing (which gives me Naruto and Bleach flashbacks)

Hold up don’t even Compare SoV’s noble vs commoner conflict to Naruto. Those two situations are not even remotely the same. All I’ll say on that is that Neji was definitively wrong. There is no room for debate on that. God what is people and thinking Naruto was privileged?! Ugh I’m getting plagueofgripes flashbacks

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, scigeek101 said:

I agree with most all of it. 

 

The monestary really felt half assed. I remember getting to the winter and being like "they don't even bother to do different seasons" it's disappointing as sin. A menu would have been just as good.

You know considering the game is actually called Four Seasons or something in Japanese, that's actually quite surprising.

[scigeek101]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You know considering the game is actually called Four Seasons or something in Japanese, that's actually quite surprising.

I know right? I thought the Japanese name was bizzare until I played the game and you know, it kind of fits, but they really don't have those little touches that make you feel like time is really passing. I still think something like "Seasons of War" or something to that effect would have been a much better title if only they'd stick to that theming at least visually. Mechanics wise don't need much of anything special but just snow in the winter months or leaves changing in the summer, anything really would have been greatly welcome. Playing the same maps over and over would be less boring if they changed ever so slightly between the seasons. Maybe the river is frozen and everyone can cross it? Maybe the Forest isn't as thick in the spring? Idk. Something would have been nice. Still like the game though it just feels half assed at times. 

Path of Radiance did better to give that feeling and that wasn't even the point of that game. You invade Daien in the winter and it's spring when you finish. 

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, scigeek101 said:

I know right? I thought the Japanese name was bizzare until I played the game and you know, it kind of fits, but they really don't have those little touches that make you feel like time is really passing. I still think something like "Seasons of War" or something to that effect would have been a much better title if only they'd stick to that theming at least visually. Mechanics wise don't need much of anything special but just snow in the winter months or leaves changing in the summer, anything really would have been greatly welcome. Playing the same maps over and over would be less boring if they changed ever so slightly between the seasons. Maybe the river is frozen and everyone can cross it? Maybe the Forest isn't as thick in the spring? Idk. Something would have been nice. Still like the game though it just feels half assed at times. 

Path of Radiance did better to give that feeling and that wasn't even the point of that game. You invade Daien in the winter and it's spring when you finish. 

Mandatory response of "They didn't even have enough time to release the game with four full routes, no way they'd have time to do that." Which is probably true, but I find it less to be a justification for elements that are lacking and more a criticism of the game's management.

[scigeek101]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Mandatory response of "They didn't even have enough time to release the game with four full routes, no way they'd have time to do that." Which is probably true, but I find it less to be a justification for elements that are lacking and more a criticism of the game's management.

Sure sure I get crunch time is hard and it's impossible to fit in everything when you are on a deadline. 

In the end I think I'd rather have a bit unpolished but hefty Fire Emblem game than one that's super polished but not substantial. Three Houses definitely has a lot of good going for it, but you can tell they cut some corners and padded it a bit where it was lacking. 

The only thing I really want to complain about it is the graphics. They suck. Not important to the game so much but can we please just go back to sprites? Imagine how awesome a sprite based FE would be on modern hardware without memory limitations? Surely you can just draw the art almost straight into the game now no? Tile based map designs is fine. But imagine what the GBA battle animations would be like with HD sprite work. 

[joevar]

4 hours ago, Maof06 said:

Now comes a real unpopular opinion about Echoes: its story is mediocre to be called a "return to form after the shit that were Awakening and Fates” and the only reason to play it is because it looks like a JRPG gameplay-wise. I love JRPGs, so I don't care if the maps are "bad" and it's one of my overall favorites.

so,, do you like echoes or not? real confused here

7 minutes ago, scigeek101 said:

I know right? I thought the Japanese name was bizzare until I played the game and you know, it kind of fits, but they really don't have those little touches that make you feel like time is really passing. I still think something like "Seasons of War" or something to that effect would have been a much better title if only they'd stick to that theming at least visually. Mechanics wise don't need much of anything special but just snow in the winter months or leaves changing in the summer, anything really would have been greatly welcome. Playing the same maps over and over would be less boring if they changed ever so slightly between the seasons. Maybe the river is frozen and everyone can cross it? Maybe the Forest isn't as thick in the spring? Idk. Something would have been nice. Still like the game though it just feels half assed at times. 

Path of Radiance did better to give that feeling and that wasn't even the point of that game. You invade Daien in the winter and it's spring when you finish. 

that could be a neat feature, and makes replaying a map a little bit more justified. it actually remind me of Forza Horizon 4 "season". so to translate it in FE, it could affect some core gameplay mechanic, but still possible to brute force past it.

[Axie]

7 hours ago, Maof06 said:

Now comes a real unpopular opinion about Echoes: its story is mediocre to be called a "return to form after the shit that were Awakening and Fates”

the sad thing is, it's both that you are right - gaiden/echoes does have mediocre writing - and that the affirmation is still true, because awakening and fates were just that bad in the writing front. awakening is mostly because it fucks over archanea canon and then its own canon with spotpass paralogues, but fates is just astonishing.

[Venger_06]

4 hours ago, joevar said:

so,, do you like echoes or not? real confused here

I like it, it's one of my favorites, just saying it's story is overhyped.

50 minutes ago, Axie said:

the sad thing is, it's both that you are right - gaiden/echoes does have mediocre writing - and that the affirmation is still true, because awakening and fates were just that bad in the writing front. awakening is mostly because it fucks over archanea canon and then its own canon with spotpass paralogues, but fates is just astonishing.

Agree to disagree.

[Lightcosmo]

I always thought people simply hyped the VA work, not really the story. Which I can agree, for the most part it is pretty stellar.

[joevar]

54 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I always thought people simply hyped the VA work, not really the story. Which I can agree, for the most part it is pretty stellar.

the VA is both hyped and stellar performance, so it even out in the end imo, kek.
but still not as hyped (the Voice Acting) as 3H afaik. not saying its a bad or good thing tho

Edited January 7, 2021 by joevar

[Venger_06]

7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Hold up don’t even Compare SoV’s noble vs commoner conflict to Naruto. Those two situations are not even remotely the same. All I’ll say on that is that Neji was definitively wrong. There is no room for debate on that. God what is people and thinking Naruto was privileged?! Ugh I’m getting plagueofgripes flashbacks

Come on dude don't act like wasn't blessed. He had massive chakra pools, insane amounts of stamina and his mother's Uzumaki life force. While I do agree that his abilities doesn't nullify his efforts, that ties back to advantages regarding his lineage which characters like Lee, Guy and Sakura didn't have, and things would turn out very different. One good analogy between Naruto and regular ninjas is that it's a countrywide race from one end to the other and Naruto was given a sports car while everyone has a regular bike. Naruto's car has 0 gas and he has to physically and slowly push the car to the nearest gas station while everyone pedals towards the finish line. So, at the beginning, everyone is clearly ahead of Naruto. Once Naruto gets that gas he blazes past everyone and no one has any hope of catching up to him.

Also, being the son of Minato made Jiraiya show interest and train him, which he wouldn't have otherwise. It's thanks to Jiraiya that Naruto is half the ninja he is now. The case is basically the same as Alm and Mycen's situation, where Alm wouldn't be much different from his villagers friends if Mycen never trained him. Mycen only trained him because his friend, Emperor Rudolf, asked him.

And yeah, Neji was right about how people born with more gifts are likely to be the top dogs while the rest will be under. Most hokages really are born and not chosen.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

I always thought people simply hyped the VA work, not really the story. Which I can agree, for the most part it is pretty stellar.

I also agree, the voice acting is amazing. Echoes has an okay story that is well told.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

E

Edited February 13, 2021 by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[joevar]

1 hour ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

Fernand's anger understandable lol.

lol, i actually thought so too when playing it for the first couple of time you met him. but you can only be stubborn so many times against plot armor

1 hour ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

That makes me recall the game Stella Glow which played like a mix of FFT and FE, which I never finished. Thanks for making me remember that game I never got by to finishing, I need to go and find time for that now lol. 

i know that game! i beat it about two times maybe. its one of those that you know will have fun time if you just shut your brain before starting it, also waifu simulator 😛

its a good reminder that many turn base srpg on grid, dont have separate animation when battling like FE, even in 2015. most just fling magic and swing their weapon on the spot. i believe some fans just take it for granted that FE doing it like that with its sometime over the top animation.

[Acacia Sgt]

In regards to Alm, it was kinda both.

Him retaking the Southern Outpost was his "He proved his worth!" moment. Lukas even brings this up. Fernand disregarded it anyway.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

E

Edited February 13, 2021 by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Acacia Sgt]

What disobey? Lukas was fully on board on rescuing Silque. Alm did went to fight the brigands in Fleecer's Forest when Lukas preferred they avoided engagement, but that seemed more a personal preference of him, rather than outright ordering Alm to not engage.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Ottservia]

As someone who has made himself out to be a vocal detractor of SoV's narrative and Alm, I just wanna throw out my 2 cents. 

On the whole noble vs commoner conflict. The issue with that conflict isn't the fact that Alm is not qualified or that Clive is kind of dumb for appointing a farm boy with little experience as leader. The point being made with this plot point(which Clive directly states himself) is that the deliverance needs a leader that can relate to common people in their army. Alm being a commoner, at least as far as everyone is aware, is the perfect person for this. The fact that his is a farm boy that proved himself is the point. He's a leader who's story resonates with the common people. It's basically a way to boost morale. Fernand, as someone who hates commoners, obviously can't agree to that and defects. He feels commoners have no place being in positions of leadership because they're just inferior. The reason this conflict doesn't work is because the narrative proves Fernand right in the end. For one, Alm isn't a commoner which in it of itself isn't really the issue until the game starts explicitly stating that Alm is better than everyone else BECAUSE of his royal lineage. Gray and Tobin outright have actual dialogue stating that Alm was always different from them and that he was just born to be a leader unlike them. The story doesn't do anything to prove them wrong either. If anything, they're proven right because Alm is royalty and that's the reason why they thought he felt different. It's why they felt inferior to him because they are. It just shoots itself in the foot. It doesn't work because the story directly contradicts itself. Like Fernand is right. Commoners are inferior to royalty and nobles. They aren't fit to lead. It just doesn't work like at all. And that's not even getting into the other problems present with Alm's character.

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, sure, Fernand's gets proven right... when like the majority of the playable party's commoners end up rising above their stations of birth. Commoners becoming knights, one even became a noble himself, commoners founding a nation...

In what way Fernand gets proven right, when we get to see a lot of commoners proving their worth and rising above that station? His idea that commoners will forever remain commoners is proven wrong multiple times...

Edited January 7, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, sure, Fernand's gets proven right... when like the majority of the playable party's commoners end up rising above their stations of birth. Commoners becoming knights, one even became a noble himself, commoners founding a nation...

In what way Fernand gets proven right, when we get to see a lot of commoners proving their worth and rising above that station?

Because Alm is still better than them. It isn’t like Naruto vs Neji where Neji is just a blatent hypocrite making him wrong regardless(and even then Naruto was never about hard work vs natural talent to begin with). Again Gray and Tobin explicitly state Alm is better than them in every way. He always was because he’s Royalty which kinda goes against the whole point of how it doesn’t matter how you were born it’s your ideals that make you fit to be a leader. Y’know the ladder part of that statement is fine but it’s the former part that doesn’t make sense. No where in the story itself is a commoner placed in a position of leadership. That never happens. Alm was made leader of the deliverance because he was a commoner which is to prove Fernand wrong that even a commoner can be a good leader if his ideals are right. This gets thrown out the window the minute you learn that Alm is royalty and he’s better than everyone else because of it.