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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Again your strawmanning, because Etrurian Emperor never said something being blunt makes it inherently bad. They gave an example of bad foreshadowing that was blunt, but they never said being blunt was inherently bad. This example of being blunt is bad because it involves a character talking to themself about how they're betraying everyone in a way that is out of character and highly unnecessary for the development of the story. It's providing foreshadow for the character's betrayal not by providing clues or call forwards, but instead by having the character say "I'm going to betray everyone" and another character say "What did you just say?" with the first character saying "Oh nothing. Never mind. Just talking to myself."

 

Not really because he didn’t mention the fact that it was out of character for that character in particular. I’ve only played like an hour of xenoblade 1 and I haven’t touched Xenoblade 2 in like 4 years so my knowledge of the material is rather shallow. like I said earlier the argument is vague because he didn’t give the added context just saying a “character saying he would  betray the group in private”. You giving me that added context actually makes what he was trying to argue make more sense. Even then I wouldn’t call it contrived so much as it is just as it is inconsistent.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Contrived is something that does not arise naturally. Stories have flow to them, so they can have developments that are natural and developments that are unnatural. The meaning of constructed and contrived are not identical. I think a lot of these arguments you get into arise from the fact that you just plain don't understand what the word contrived means and what people mean when they use it.

Yeah because nothing in a story happens naturally. Saying everything in a story should have meaning while also arguing it should all arise naturally are contradictory statements. Because the reasons the events in the story are happening in the way that they’re happening is to give it meaning. Stories should remain consistent that much I agree with but to dismiss it as contrived or unnatural when there is meaning as to why it had to happen in this way  in the first place is just plain disrespectful. It’s how we get dumb takes like “X story is just trying to emotionally manipulate you into feeling this way” as if all stories aren’t emotionally manipulative. 

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21 minutes ago, Ottservia said:
 

Not really because he didn’t mention the fact that it was out of character for that character in particular. I’ve only played like an hour of xenoblade 1 and I haven’t touched Xenoblade 2 in like 4 years so my knowledge of the material is rather shallow. like I said earlier the argument is vague because he didn’t give the added context just saying a “character saying he would  betray the group in private”. You giving me that added context actually makes what he was trying to argue make more sense. Even then I wouldn’t call it contrived so much as it is just as it is inconsistent.

 

Yeah because nothing in a story happens naturally. Saying everything in a story should have meaning while also arguing it should all arise naturally are contradictory statements. Because the reasons the events in the story are happening in the way that they’re happening is to give it meaning. Stories should remain consistent that much I agree with but to dismiss it as contrived or unnatural when there is meaning as to why it had to happen in this way  in the first place is just plain disrespectful. It’s how we get dumb takes like “X story is just trying to emotionally manipulate you into feeling this way” as if all stories aren’t emotionally manipulative. 

No, things in stories can happen naturally. "Sarah was hungry, so Sarah ate an apple" is a naturally developing story. We go from point A to point B with a sense of flow that makes sense. "Sarah was hungry, so Sarah gouged out her eyes" is not a naturally flowing story. Because gouging out one's eyes as a result of hunger is not a natural reaction. Sure there could be reasons someone might conceivably do so, but my nine word story does not provide context and thus does not come across as natural. "Sarah was hungry, but was trapped in a glass box with an apple on the other side, teasing her with its tender redness. So as not to see the mocking apple any longer, Sarah gouged out her eyes" is a story with added nuance that makes the events within more natural. All three are constructed because I made them up and functionally they work in terms of grammar, but the climax of one is far more contrived than the other two, as it involves the character doing something that makes absolutely no sense to reach an end point.

To take an example outside the realm of writing, all camera angles in a visual medium are artificial. As even a POV camera angle basically never perfectly replicates how a human actually views a world (and that's even assuming it is meant to be replicating human experience when really it is just meant to be a view into the world). In a well made visual medium every camera angle will be carefully constructed to best convey the mood and symbolism of a scene. Now a camera angle that consistently hides the face of a certain character, that is contrived. This doesn't mean it's bad (because contrived != inherently bad), there's perfectly valid reasons to hide the face of a character from the audience, it builds a sense of mystery and dread, or just plain avoids a spoiler. It's good camera work (or at least it can be, people can still use it in the wrong way), but it is still contrived because it is not given us a natural perception of the world that a camera is relied on to do. It is blatantly hiding and element of the world from us. All camera angles are artificial constructs of the medium, but yet a camera angle that openly hides something from the viewer is contrived in a way a standard camera angle is not.

Edited by Jotari

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I actually posted this in another thread, but I thought it was worth posting because based on the conversations I've been seeing, it seems to be an unpopular opinion: I love the Monastery, Minigames, Tutoring Sessions in Three Houses and they beautifully illustrate the game's theme and setting so well. After finishing AM without NG+ on Maddening as well as starting SS on Maddening has not changed my opinion at all, rather it has made it stronger. Here's why:

Spoiler

 This is the one of most flexible Fire Emblem games when deciding classes, unit recruitment, how to beat maps, and different paths. Fodlan is land at peace with 4 distinct powers governing the nation, each with unique history and culture, and each student has a unique history to reflect the culture of their nation of origin. Why be in a such a rush to do battles when the continent is at peace? Nothing urgent is going on. Those battles can wait. In fact, why don't you go the library and read about all of Fodlan's history and traditions? This is not like Fates, Awakening, or Echoes where war has already started  and we are unwillingly dragged into it. Three Houses is a game where the player is rewarded for putting in effort for taking their time and getting to know peers as best as possible. And frankly, that's a good thing. By taking your time to know each student indiviually and participating with activities like Meal Sharing and Tea Parties, you get to build supports with your allies, and that also includes students outside the house you are teaching. Fatigue as a mechanic exists to ensure that player gives their default students equal attention. In previous games, the player could just bench a character if they did not want to use them. But that’s not the case in Three Houses the player is actively encouraged to use all their units by making their students in blank slates. You are given the free ability to tailor your students in any way you like, encouraging you to give each student a unique role in your army. Sure previous games, offered reclassing, but in those games, units would already come with a certain rank in weapons and reclassing meant going back to basic weapon levels if the class was entirely different. As a result, most players would stick to the base class and if they reclassed, it would often be a class that allowed the previous type of weapon to be used. Three Houses encourages reclassing by not only giving weekly tutoring sessions, but by also removing weapon locks given in classes, making it easier for players to reach weapon ranks to pass certification exams. Even personal weapons, specifically Heroe's Relics aren't character locked. In Three Houses, If the player really puts an effort to know a student by giving them gifts or returning lost items, they become closer, and if the support level is increased, it becomes easier to recruit them. The the big reason why I love Tea Parties. By paying close attention to supports, reactions to favorite gifts, and  the kind of items you return to students shows their personalities, and Tea Parties are the ultimate test. By executing a perfect tea party, you are rewarded charm for both you and the participant. You could recruit students by reaching the appropriate skill levels and stats, but that's not practical with the limited months. Alternatively, you could not recruit anyone at all and just use the default students, but you miss on bonuses like supports and paralouges for not taking time. All this points to the main themes of this game, which is: How beautiful and cherished life is, only for those cherished moments to go away so quickly and romance, but not in good way. The poem's first part refers to how wonderful and tranquil the academy days were, only for war to come out of the blue and change everything. The first part of the game does not vary because it does not need to. Fodlan is land at peace with no war going on, only for war to be declared later on. To think that we were once all friends- now we are enemies, fighting for what we believe is right- this happened so fast- I miss the academy days so much. It  also goes back to the romance part as well. We  became, friends but that may not be a good thing. It makes fighting in war even harder. On a player's first playthrough, a player is high unlikely to recruit every student, meaning that they are forced to fight against opposing students. And when they get killed, they are supposed to feel immense sadness. Remember, these aren't just people we have met for the first time or some random NPC- these were friends we used to eat and study with. New Game + encourages the player to avoid the same fate of students by making it easy to recruit the students you taught previously. You can even buys skill levels back in order to save time teaching in order to try new builds; for example you did Falcon Knight Ingrid last time, but wanna do Dark Flier? You can save time by relearning the required Flying Levels so you can spend more time with Reason and Faith tutoring. Crest Items are also available, allowing you to bestow any crest on anyone, meaning you can full advantage of the Heroes Relics with anyone. Three Houses maps are reused a lot, but since every run feature different runs as well as different classes, no attempt of the map is the same, And considering each lord, has a different goal for Fodlan, it means each story and outcome is different. And lastly also The theme " Edge of Dawn " explains the tragedy of Three Houses, from the point of Edelgard who declares war despite wishing to stay in the peaceful days of the academy. 

 

TLDR: If People are trying play Three Houses like previous titles where you just take a short break to repack on items or fix weapons and want to go from battle to battle with little breaks are not obviously not going to enjoy Three Houses because its a game that rewards you for putting time for knowing students, doing activities, and being invested and taking as much time as possible to learn about the world of Fodlan and its history and current political issues. 

 

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10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Why be in a such a rush to do battles when the continent is at peace? Nothing urgent is going on. Those battles can wait.

I feel something is missing here... aren´t there bandits making the area unsafe, even for the next in line successors of the three major nations? Religiously motivated rebellions? A dark cult wishing to bring about the end of the continents major religion - at the same time a seemingly important factor in holding the triangle of great powers in moderate equilibrium? The very same dark cult who is already plenty active in Rheas very own base of power - intruding even on (one of) it´s most holy sanctuaries and fucks villages up by spreading angry-plague as well as turning students into monsters? Also the tension along borders, outside as well as within Fodlan, no?

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Three Houses is a game where the player is rewarded for putting in effort for taking their time and getting to know peers as best as possible. And frankly, that's a good thing. By taking your time to know each student indiviually and participating with activities like Meal Sharing and Tea Parties, you get to build supports with your allies, and that also includes students outside the house you are teaching.

This sounds like it almost exclusively has supports in mind. To which I say - anyone s-ranking anyone else in Fates/Awakening has a bigger impact on gameplay than any support has in TH.

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

1) Fatigue as a mechanic exists to ensure that player gives their default students equal attention. 2) In previous games, the player could just bench a character if they did not want to use them. 3) But that’s not the case in Three Houses the player is actively encouraged to use all their units by making their students in blank slates.

3) Blank slates with near-minimal stat differences, about 3-4 archetypes of unit growths across all houses (including DLC?) and bad movement for the first ten levels - the implications of that differing greatly depending on difficulty. 2) My candidiates for instant benching: Caspar, Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Ashe, Sylvain, Lorenz, Raphael and Ignaz. Recruiting staff members or knights gives - short term at minimum - better units instantly. 1) Perhaps I play vastly different, but I focus extra hard on the characetrs i wish to use - the rabble can rot in the abyss.

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

You are given the free ability to tailor your students in any way you like, encouraging you to give each student a unique role in your army.

Yet being optimal includes going through the same 3 intermediate classes unless you are a guy and even Healers are better off getting Fiendish Blow (imo). As for roles, what roles? DD, Tank, Healer? This isn´t WoW. Everyone is a DD, Tanking is relative and yeah, Healing is for everyone who is in a class that allows magic.

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Sure previous games, offered reclassing, but in those games, units would already come with a certain rank in weapons and reclassing meant going back to basic weapon levels if the class was entirely different.

They would also come with higher-than-scrub-stats and better equipment, especially the late game lads and ladies. Also higher Mov, better weapon ranks, etc. Re Weapon Ranks - fair enough, barring SD methinks?

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

1) As a result, most players would stick to the base class and if they reclassed, it would often be a class that allowed the previous type of weapon to be used. 2)Three Houses encourages reclassing by not only giving weekly tutoring sessions, but by also removing weapon locks given in classes, making it easier for players to reach weapon ranks to pass certification exams.

1) What´s your point here exactly? 2) TH encourages reclassing by placing certain skills or Combat Arts at the end of mastering a class. Tutoring sessions are a means to achieve that. Re weapon ranks: sure, and in intermediate and below I can see that somewhat - outside of the fact that you get bonus weapon exp when using the wepoan your class is strong in (I think - my mechanical knowledge of TH is limited at best). But as of advanced classes, using a weapon you do not have your Prowess/Faire skill equipped is probably/almost (?) always worse in accuracy, damage and crit. And don´t bother with but "muh effective damage" I´m hitting a horse/armor dude with magic before I bother with mano-a-mano combat. Also Knightkneeler/Helm Splitter with any lance/axe before I buy a Horseslayer/Mace/Hammer.

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

 In Three Houses, If the player really puts an effort to know a student by giving them gifts or returning lost items, they become closer, and if the support level is increased, it becomes easier to recruit them.

You still need Byleth to git gud at certain skills as well as stats - some of which can be harder to acquire than others (riding/armor/flying methinks). And the support increasing ain´t that easygoing either - some support levels are hidden behind Part 2 (not sure how relevant that is), not to mention for gifts you are running around the monastery like a madman looking for loot. Both of these things impact how easy or hard it is recruiting a character, which reflects badly on that freedom of recruitment. (I saw too late that you made that point yourself)

10 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

The first part of the game does not vary because it does not need to.

Yes it fucken does, especially when you have 4 routes. 1/2 of your game or more in the case of BE being the exact same every time - personally I think it´s an insult to players, because it feels like they looked at it and where like "Good enough for these idiots, lmao." Not to mention the recycling of maps, but that´s it´s own can of worms. And a potentially easy fix could have been to have the students of each house either take missions for shit going down in their very own homeland - not like there wouldn´t have been enough going on, from what I understand. 

@lenticular Regarding the battalion quest being unskippable: This seems to be incorrect - the game doesn´t allow you to skip to the end of the month in chapter 3 but resting and auto-tutoring is perfectly fine, for whatever reason. I am currently in the prep screen of chapter 3 and can´t access the battalion guild.

Image for confirmation, I had to cut it up a bit because of mb size limitations and my absolute inexperience with formats. Note Catherine and the 2 goons in the background:

Spoiler

20210805_144324-1.thumb.jpg.52af7667cf3be0ef5534c685e35a7434.jpg

Maybe the guild gets automatically unlocked after chapter 3, but I´m not there yet and won´t be today since I don´t have the patience for it right now.

Edited by Imuabicus

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Ignore double post pls - next mod I find I´m gonna ask to delete, sry.

 

Edited by Imuabicus

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3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Yes it fucken does, especially when you have 4 routes. 1/2 of your game or more in the case of BE being the exact same every time - personally I think it´s an insult to players

Behold a flow chart for an SRPG from 2003. Although the game being untranslated and hence unplayed by me, I don't actually know how different the battles are, and SRW I don't think to be obsessed with distinctive maps the way some hardcore FE are.

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22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Behold a flow chart for an SRPG from 2003. Although the game being untranslated and hence unplayed by me, I don't actually know how different the battles are, and SRW I don't think to be obsessed with distinctive maps the way some hardcore FE are.

I´m not exactly sure what you are trying to tell me with this.

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23 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

I´m not exactly sure what you are trying to tell me with this.

*Points to the fact it starts with four distinct character routes*

The -cautioned- point I was making, if you notice how large the flow chart is, is that it is possible for an SRPG to have four routes with sizable variations to some extent, more than 3H may suggest.

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6 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Regarding the battalion quest being unskippable: This seems to be incorrect - the game doesn´t allow you to skip to the end of the month in chapter 3 but resting and auto-tutoring is perfectly fine, for whatever reason. I am currently in the prep screen of chapter 3 and can´t access the battalion guild.

The game is weird. It doesn't force an explore on you for chapter 3, so it's still possible to skip the quest at that point. But then in chapter 4, it does give you a mandatory explore. Seemingly, this would be so that you can do the quest to investigate the Holy Tomb, except that the game doesn't care if you end you completely ignore that quest and end your exploration session early. What it does care about is the battalion guild quest. It won't let you end your exploration until you've finished that. Even though it was perfectly content to let you ignore it in chapter 3 by just resting every week. No, this doesn't make any sense to me either, but that's how it works. Or at least, that's how it seems to work as far as I can tell.

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2 hours ago, lenticular said:

The game is weird. It doesn't force an explore on you for chapter 3, so it's still possible to skip the quest at that point. But then in chapter 4, it does give you a mandatory explore. Seemingly, this would be so that you can do the quest to investigate the Holy Tomb, except that the game doesn't care if you end you completely ignore that quest and end your exploration session early. What it does care about is the battalion guild quest. It won't let you end your exploration until you've finished that. Even though it was perfectly content to let you ignore it in chapter 3 by just resting every week. No, this doesn't make any sense to me either, but that's how it works. Or at least, that's how it seems to work as far as I can tell.

You´ve successfully made me go through chapter 3 to see this and I also couldn´t not do Jeritzas quest - the devs last ditch effort to having the player have access to the big new mechanic presumably.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The -cautioned- point I was making, if you notice how large the flow chart is, is that it is possible for an SRPG to have four routes with sizable variations to some extent, more than 3H may suggest.

With some differing success/fail conditions too. What sorcery is this?

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Sorry about the late reply, my fingers were very sore from typing too much yesterday. 

16 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

feel something is missing here... aren´t there bandits making the area unsafe, even for the next in line successors of the three major nations? Religiously motivated rebellions? A dark cult wishing to bring about the end of the continents major religion - at the same time a seemingly important factor in holding the triangle of great powers in moderate equilibrium? The very same dark cult who is already plenty active in Rheas very own base of power - intruding even on (one of) it´s most holy sanctuaries and fucks villages up by spreading angry-plague as well as turning students into monsters? Also the tension along borders, outside as well as within Fodlan, no?

Mostly at peace. Unlike other FE games, Fódlan is clearly has it nations at ease. There’s no major wars going on as of Part 1. Yes, there all small squirmishes throughout Fódlan that serves as a pre-cursor to Edelgard’s declaration of war, but until then there is no major conflict between the four powers until at said declaration. 

 

16 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

This sounds like it almost exclusively has supports in mind. To which I say - anyone s-ranking anyone else in Fates/Awakening has a bigger impact on gameplay than any support has in TH.

Yes, supports also play a huge role in helping learning about their units in order to make decisions what gifts to give or what topics to discuss at tea parties. For example, by paying attention to Ashe’s supports, you’ll notice he loves tales of chivalry, so the book of chivalry would make an excellent gift for him. Supports do have a huge role in battle, notably they make gambits significantly more accurate, with the higher the support level, the better the Gambit Boosts. So saying supports don’t have any direct impact on gameplay is false.

 

16 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

1) What´s your point here exactly? 2) TH encourages reclassing by placing certain skills or Combat Arts at the end of mastering a class. Tutoring sessions are a means to achieve that. Re weapon ranks: sure, and in intermediate and below I can see that somewhat - outside of the fact that you get bonus weapon exp when using the wepoan your class is strong in (I think - my mechanical knowledge of TH is limited at best). But as of advanced classes, using a weapon you do not have your Prowess/Faire skill equipped is probably/almost (?) always worse in accuracy, damage and crit. And don´t bother with but "muh effective damage" I´m hitting a horse/armor dude with magic before I bother with mano-a-mano combat. Also Knightkneeler/Helm Splitter with any lance/axe before I buy a Horseslayer/Mace/Hammer

My point is that it’s much easier to class change and be immediately more useful than compared to other games. For example if I wanted to make a Xander a Dark Mage in Fates, I would have to completely grind Xander’s weapon rank for tomes from the bottom without any of use of other weapons due to them being locked. It makes it so much harder to level him as a Dark Mage to the point that most players would skip it and keep Xander as Paladin despite the potential payoff of Skills from Dark Mage. In Three Houses, because the classes don’t have locks with the exception of magic and gauntlets, it makes it much easier to improve the ranks of things like weapons and flying skills by just battling in the class and not locking units to the classes primary weapons, which make it easier to gain levels and unit profiency ranks. 

 

16 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

You still need Byleth to git gud at certain skills as well as stats - some of which can be harder to acquire than others (riding/armor/flying methinks). And the support increasing ain´t that easygoing either - some support levels are hidden behind Part 2 (not sure how relevant that is), not to mention for gifts you are running around the monastery like a madman looking for loot. Both of these things impact how easy or hard it is recruiting a character, which reflects badly on that freedom of recruitment. (I saw too late that you made that point yourself)

When I say player, I mean Byleth, who is an Avatar for the player. Yes, it’s take a while to grind for ranks and skills to improve students. That’s the whole point. And that’s why I say Three Houses rewards players who really gets involved in the Monastery and are willing to learn about Fódlan and the people who inhabit it. A game that makes you work towards goal and requires effort to unlock mechanics  isn’t bad thing at all, and in case, it’s a really good thing, because in the process you are learning about the students you wish to recruit and the rich culture, history, and social issues of Fódlan. 

 

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Yes it fucken does, especially when you have 4 routes. 1/2 of your game or more in the case of BE being the exact same every time - personally I think it´s an insult to players, because it feels like they looked at it and where like "Good enough for these idiots, lmao." Not to mention the recycling of maps, but that´s it´s own can of worms. And a potentially easy fix could have been to have the students of each house either take missions for shit going down in their very own homeland - not like there wouldn´t have been enough going on, from what I understand. 

It does feel like a time constraint problem, but I don’t really think it’s that detrimental to Three Houses the repeated maps. 
 

To explain why I don’t find Three Houses maps that bland despite repetition, I wanna bring up an analogy: In this case, Pokémon Y/X. 
 

X and Y get a lot of hate in the Pokémon community for being too easy and the story being terrible. Despite that though, I still love XY and always have a blast replaying it despite how linear both the story and Kalos is. The saving grace of XY is its amazing diversity of Pokémon. It hardest Regional Dex to date, and there’s also many options available for team mates by the 1st gym. Here is a list on the top the head: Pidgey, Weedle, Caterpie, BunnelBy, Scatterbug, Fletchling, Pikachu, Panpour, Pansage, Pansear, Azurril, Litleo, Riolu, Farfetch’d, Psyduck, Bidoof, Dunsparce, Burmy, Zigzagoon, Ledyba, Skitty, Flabebe, Ralts, Budew, and Combee, all before the 1st gym. All of these are available before the 1st gym, and that’s not the whole List. Despite XY being so linear, the amazing roster makes every battle feel so different despite the same story and battles. I always feel excited when I beat Lysandre in his finale, and looking back at it, I still find how exciting it was to defeat Lysandre despite doing it so many times, with each different moments on who was the MVP. 
 

Now the same logic I use to explain why I love XY despite the easy difficulty, same battles, and linear region also applies to Three Houses. 

 

Every map might be the same, but what each class which unit is varies on each play through. It all goes back to how easy it is tailor units to a class each player wants to fill a role. As a result, no two playthroughs will follow the same strategy for defeating a certain map. In my playthrough of AM Maddening, Manuela was my MVP on so many maps because she was a great dodge tank due to being a Falcon Knight with Alert Stance as well also being an excellent offensive units thanks to the Levin Sword and Hexblade. Right now during my SS Maddening playthrough, she’s a superb offense and support unit thanks to being a Trickster with the Foul Play skill + Fetters of Dromi. Or how Yuri was an excellent way for units to rescue units after they initiated combat thanks to Foul Play + Fetters of Dromi combo on my AM playthrough. It really saved my skin on the final map and Chapter 18. The point is, despite maps being reused they are still engaging because each player will have a different set of units in different classes in each playthrough, making sure each player will approach each map with a different strategy every time. And that not going into how different the narratives are and how engaging those characters are and how they want to achieve “ right “. 
 

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

3) Blank slates with near-minimal stat differences, about 3-4 archetypes of unit growths across all houses (including DLC?) and bad movement for the first ten levels - the implications of that differing greatly depending on difficulty. 2) My candidiates for instant benching: Caspar, Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Ashe, Sylvain, Lorenz, Raphael and Ignaz. Recruiting staff members or knights gives - short term at minimum - better units instantly. 1) Perhaps I play vastly different, but I focus extra hard on the characetrs i wish to use - the rabble can rot in the abyss.

You don’t have to follow the optimal routes. You could make Annette a standard mage as always, but thanks to her talent in Axes, she can also make an excellent Wyvern Rider if you wished. Something like that was either not possible in game like SDABOL, or required a lot outside of grinding in Awakening/Fates. I disagree on Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Caspar, Raphael, Sylvain, Ashe, and Lorenz assessments BTW. Those units have served me excellent in so many playthroughs. 

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55 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

X and Y get a lot of hate in the Pokémon community for being too easy and the story being terrible. Despite that though, I still love XY and always have a blast replaying it despite how linear both the story and Kalos is. The saving grace of XY is its amazing diversity of Pokémon. It hardest Regional Dex to date, and there’s also many options available for team mates by the 1st gym. Here is a list on the top the head: Pidgey, Weedle, Caterpie, BunnelBy, Scatterbug, Fletchling, Pikachu, Panpour, Pansage, Pansear, Azurril, Litleo, Riolu, Farfetch’d, Psyduck, Bidoof, Dunsparce, Burmy, Zigzagoon, Ledyba, Skitty, Flabebe, Ralts, Budew, and Combee, all before the 1st gym. All of these are available before the 1st gym, and that’s not the whole List. Despite XY being so linear, the amazing roster makes every battle feel so different despite the same story and battles. I always feel excited when I beat Lysandre in his finale, and looking back at it, I still find how exciting it was to defeat Lysandre despite doing it so many times, with each different moments on who was the MVP. 

Very good for nuzlocking. Honestly, the problem with Kalos is that Gamefreak never bothered to fix X/Y mistakes like they did with R/S and D/P. Pokemon Z when?

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2 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

Very good for nuzlocking. Honestly, the problem with Kalos is that Gamefreak never bothered to fix X/Y mistakes like they did with R/S and D/P. Pokemon Z when?

Interestingly enough, the source code for Sun and Moon revealed that there was supposed to be two Kalos follow-ups but they were scrapped probably due to the 20th anniversary. A pity, since I really liked XY as games.

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1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

To explain why I don’t find Three Houses maps that bland despite repetition, I wanna bring up an analogy: In this case, Pokémon Y/X. 
 

X and Y get a lot of hate in the Pokémon community for being too easy and the story being terrible. Despite that though, I still love XY and always have a blast replaying it despite how linear both the story and Kalos is. The saving grace of XY is its amazing diversity of Pokémon. It hardest Regional Dex to date, and there’s also many options available for team mates by the 1st gym. Here is a list on the top the head: Pidgey, Weedle, Caterpie, BunnelBy, Scatterbug, Fletchling, Pikachu, Panpour, Pansage, Pansear, Azurril, Litleo, Riolu, Farfetch’d, Psyduck, Bidoof, Dunsparce, Burmy, Zigzagoon, Ledyba, Skitty, Flabebe, Ralts, Budew, and Combee, all before the 1st gym. All of these are available before the 1st gym, and that’s not the whole List. Despite XY being so linear, the amazing roster makes every battle feel so different despite the same story and battles. I always feel excited when I beat Lysandre in his finale, and looking back at it, I still find how exciting it was to defeat Lysandre despite doing it so many times, with each different moments on who was the MVP. 
 

Now the same logic I use to explain why I love XY despite the easy difficulty, same battles, and linear region also applies to Three Houses. 

Love the comparison! I may need to go revisit XY now! I certainly didn't hate the game, since it brought with it a lot of cool mainstay features like skin tone changing - FINALLY - and clothing options and multiple (semi-)important side characters that journey with you. But I also didn't love it either. Admittedly, I did like the grinding aspect. XY is an easy game to grind money and exp in, and that made it pretty simple overall. But I didn't mind that. 

 

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

Manuela was my MVP on so many maps because she was a great dodge tank due to being a Falcon Knight with Alert Stance as well also being an excellent offensive units thanks to the Levin Sword and Hexblade.

...and now I know what specs to run on Manuela on my next LP. (Between this, Assassin/Dark Mage Ignatz, and I think it was Wyvern Rider Ferdinand, I'll have a lot to experiment with!)

 

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

I disagree on Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Caspar, Raphael, Sylvain, Ashe, and Lorenz assessments BTW. Those units have served me excellent in so many playthroughs. 

Definitely agree. Raphael usually ends up as one of my best units in all honesty, with great HP and Strength growths. And Ashe has been a clutch character for me on so many playthroughs, be it either joining the "Wyvern Fleet" with Petra and Claude on VW, or working as a "poor man's Claude" during AM. And while I don't play Maddening myself, I've always heard good things about Bernadetta on that run. 

 

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

a lot outside of grinding in Awakening/Fates.

The sheer amount of grinding I've done for head-canon, optimization, or just ideal/test builds in those two games has left me utterly burnt out on them. It sort of sucks since Awakening is still my favorite, but I can't play for more than five minutes without just turning the game off...

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3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Mostly at peace. Unlike other FE games, Fódlan is clearly has it nations at ease. There’s no major wars going on as of Part 1. Yes, there all small squirmishes throughout Fódlan that serves as a pre-cursor to Edelgard’s declaration of war, but until then there is no major conflict between the four powers until at said declaration. 

We must have a different understanding of peace - just because the big nations don´t outright go at it, having a rebellion within your borders and constant struggle on foreign borders as well isn´t a continent being peaceful. Claiming it to be seem akin sitting in an ivory tower. 

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Yes, supports also play a huge role in helping learning about their units in order to make decisions what gifts to give or what topics to discuss at tea parties. For example, by paying attention to Ashe’s supports, you’ll notice he loves tales of chivalry, so the book of chivalry would make an excellent gift for him. Supports do have a huge role in battle, notably they make gambits significantly more accurate, with the higher the support level, the better the Gambit Boosts. So saying supports don’t have any direct impact on gameplay is false.

The game literally throws supports at you, the second you finish a map - the only way your analysis of characters will be relevant is if you are trying to recruit them. I don´t think I ever bothered wit Gifts/Lost Items and instead just had them stuff themselves and that was good enough. Did I say TH supports were useless? No I didn´t. 

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

1) My point is that it’s much easier to class change and be immediately more useful than compared to other games. 2) For example if I wanted to make a Xander a Dark Mage in Fates, I would have to completely grind Xander’s weapon rank for tomes from the bottom without any of use of other weapons due to them being locked. It makes it so much harder to level him as a Dark Mage to the point that most players would skip it and keep Xander as Paladin despite the potential payoff of Skills from Dark Mage. 3) In Three Houses, because the classes don’t have locks with the exception of magic and gauntlets, it makes it much easier to improve the ranks of things like weapons and flying skills by just battling in the class and not locking units to the classes primary weapons, which make it easier to gain levels and unit profiency ranks. 

This is all around ridiculous. 1) Uh, no? What´s it take to class change in most FE´s? A Master Seal of sorts and having hit level 10. Ogma + Master Seal = instantly useful (not to imply he wasn´t useful before). Even class changing to other class paths is easy in Awakening and Fates - get level 10 get correct Seal, done. Heck, as far as I can tell, for some games you have tier list discussions that even adress which units to early promote to make them short term useful, because their power spike is needed in the short term, but not long term. What do you have in TH again? Oh yeah reach the relevant level and then you may take your promotion - unless you didn´t manage to reach the relevant weapon ranks, in which case go back to school or enjoy the RNG and potential waste of promotional items. Not to mention in every other FE I have played myself you can reclass/promote directly on the map, giving the unit an instant stat boost and possibly better movement (I think most promotions do?).

2) Why are people like this. For one your Dark Mage Xander example falls flat for a couple of reasons. First off, I can see two skills being somewhat relevant for Xander - Heartseeker wich is a lvl5 Dark Mage skill, which will be gained instantly upon getting a single level in said class and Lifetaker, which is a lvl 15 Dark Knight skill - which would take quite some time, but guess what, still got access to swords. Secondly, Xander has a SPD and RES problem - the Dark Mage class line fixes none of that in a fashion that other classes or even Fates mechanics itself won´t adress better than some ridiculously convoluted class path. To top that off, Lifetaker being useful is arguable - a neat skill to have sure, but Xanders most remarkable unit trait is he is tanky as shit. And Heart Seeker is almost worthless to Xander because 1. he doesn´t have accuracy issues and 2. Xanders other remarkable unit trait is uninhibited 1-2 range, so Heartseeker isn´t a particularly great choice here.

3) Yes and it would be a great thing to be able to use all weapons equally, if there were any reason to. The only valuable addition to a units arsenal besides their future main weaponry is a bow. Weapons not being locked has nothing to do with gaining levels or unit proficiency.

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

When I say player, I mean Byleth, who is an Avatar for the player. Yes, it’s take a while to grind for ranks and skills to improve students. That’s the whole point. And that’s why I say Three Houses rewards players who really gets involved in the Monastery and are willing to learn about Fódlan and the people who inhabit it. A game that makes you work towards goal and requires effort to unlock mechanics  isn’t bad thing at all, and in case, it’s a really good thing, because in the process you are learning about the students you wish to recruit and the rich culture, history, and social issues of Fódlan. 

This has practically nothing to do with what I wrote. And personally I don´t have a fuck to give about Fodlans world - I´d like to play the game not listen to the lore of the land, thank you very much.

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

1) You don’t have to follow the optimal routes. You could make Annette a standard mage as always, but thanks to her talent in Axes, she can also make an excellent Wyvern Rider if you wished. 2) Something like that was either not possible in game like SDABOL, or required a lot outside of grinding in Awakening/Fates. 3) I disagree on Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Caspar, Raphael, Sylvain, Ashe, and Lorenz assessments BTW. Those units have served me excellent in so many playthroughs. 

1) Written by: Hard mode. I tried Lightning Axe Annette on Maddening and it was fun for the 2 chapters she had the accuracy for - no doubt my fault for messing up her build. But an excellent WR/WL looks vastley different from WR/WL Annette. 2) Really? Comparing two games that are almost 30 years appart, to make a point? The second part of that sentence I´m not entirely clear about. 3) Which has nothing to do with the fact that getting staff members gives better units almost instantly - with respect to recruitment issues of course. Perhaps I should have mentioned that´s my Maddening bench list - Hard is so easy any unit can (probably) excel in anything. 

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

1) Every map might be the same, but what each class which unit is varies on each play through. It all goes back to how easy it is tailor units to a class each player wants to fill a role.  As a result, no two playthroughs will follow the same strategy for defeating a certain map. 2) In my playthrough of AM Maddening, Manuela was my MVP on so many maps because she was a great dodge tank due to being a Falcon Knight with Alert Stance as well also being an excellent offensive units thanks to the Levin Sword and Hexblade. Right now during my SS Maddening playthrough, she’s a superb offense and support unit thanks to being a Trickster with the Foul Play skill + Fetters of Dromi. Or how Yuri was an excellent way for units to rescue units after they initiated combat thanks to Foul Play + Fetters of Dromi combo on my AM playthrough. It really saved my skin on the final map and Chapter 18. The point is, despite maps being reused they are still engaging because each player will have a different set of units in different classes in each playthrough, making sure each player will approach each map with a different strategy every time. And that not going into how different the narratives are and how engaging those characters are and how they want to achieve “ right “. 

1) Ah basic unit variety. What every other FE game has inherently, we now declare a great feat of the game. 2) What, a Falcon Knight with Alert Stance being a great dodge tank? Never ever have I heard of that before. Immediately followed by mentioning the same unit build in two different camapigns... yeah no. Map reuse + same unit builds = boring game.  

Edited by Imuabicus

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7 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

We must have a different understanding of peace - just because the big nations don´t outright go at it, having a rebellion within your borders and constant struggle on foreign borders as well isn´t a continent being peaceful. Claiming it to be seem akin sitting in an ivory tower. 

You are missing the point. I said the nations are more or less at peace with each other. They are allies at this point of this stage of the game. Yes there are conflicts like skirmishes and bandits within the nations, but the continent has lacked civil wars between the countries for the majority of its years ever since Rhea founded the Church and Crest System. That's one positives of Rhea's crest system, it brought Fodlan stabillity and allowed the continent  and nations to flourish for more than a millenia. 

24 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

2) Why are people like this. For one your Dark Mage Xander example falls flat for a couple of reasons. First off, I can see two skills being somewhat relevant for Xander - Heartseeker wich is a lvl5 Dark Mage skill, which will be gained instantly upon getting a single level in said class and Lifetaker, which is a lvl 15 Dark Knight skill - which would take quite some time, but guess what, still got access to swords. Secondly, Xander has a SPD and RES problem - the Dark Mage class line fixes none of that in a fashion that other classes or even Fates mechanics itself won´t adress better than some ridiculously convoluted class path. To top that off, Lifetaker being useful is arguable - a neat skill to have sure, but Xanders most remarkable unit trait is he is tanky as shit. And Heart Seeker is almost worthless to Xander because 1. he doesn´t have accuracy issues and 2. Xanders other remarkable unit trait is uninhibited 1-2 range, so Heartseeker isn´t a particularly great choice here.

That's not the point. The point isn't whether Xander is a good Dark Mage or not nor does he benefit from the skills. The point is that significantly harder to grind for Skills in a game like Fates/Awakening because of how weapon locks apply, discouraging people to try get skills like Heartseeker on an Axe unit simply because it means grinding from weapon rank E while gaining the levels, making it much more tedious to gain the right levels for the skills. If you want a class that's more more " suited " to Xander, try his secondary Wyvern Rider. Its a great class set for him, including skills like Swordbreaker and Savage Blow he can benefit from, but most players won't bother because it means losing Siegfried and grinding for the weapon ranks which requires auxiliary battles which means grinding, which is severely limited on Conquest. 

In contrast the Wyvern Rider, despite specializing in Axes and Lances in Three Houses, its still considered one of Byleth's best classes thanks to the amazing movement, canto, and the fact they can use Sword of the Creator thanks to the classes no longer have weapon locks.  That means if you are soley in a class to master the skills, its much easier since you can use weapon ranks you already have grinded instead delegating to the class specialities when trying to master a class for the skill. 

47 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

This is all around ridiculous. 1) Uh, no? What´s it take to class change in most FE´s? A Master Seal of sorts and having hit level 10. Ogma + Master Seal = instantly useful (not to imply he wasn´t useful before). Even class changing to other class paths is easy in Awakening and Fates - get level 10 get correct Seal, done. Heck, as far as I can tell, for some games you have tier list discussions that even adress which units to early promote to make them short term useful, because their power spike is needed in the short term, but not long term. What do you have in TH again? Oh yeah reach the relevant level and then you may take your promotion - unless you didn´t manage to reach the relevant weapon ranks, in which case go back to school or enjoy the RNG and potential waste of promotional items. Not to mention in every other FE I have played myself you can reclass/promote directly on the map, giving the unit an instant stat boost and possibly better movement (I think most promotions do?).

 The class change system is done as a nod to the school setting. And while its true that you have to risk a seal in order to gain a new class, Three Houses is a game where the level system does not reset to 20, rather the level remains the same and surpasses 20 mark. Because of this system, promoting into a higher tier class is not nessarily the best course of action, and the stat boost you get are incredibly small compared to other games. As a result, its not uncommon for many units to remain in Advanced or even intermediate for playthroughs. So there's no pressure to promote immediately to a higher tier class. Just give a bit more tutoring and try again.  Also if you really don't want to lose a seal, just save, and if you fail, turn it off. 

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

1) Written by: Hard mode. I tried Lightning Axe Annette on Maddening and it was fun for the 2 chapters she had the accuracy for - no doubt my fault for messing up her build. But an excellent WR/WL looks vastley different from WR/WL Annette. 2) Really? Comparing two games that are almost 30 years appart, to make a point? The second part of that sentence I´m not entirely clear about. 3)

What's I'm trying to say that because of the tutoring system and the fact that most units start off as a blank slate and its true that units boons and banes in certain categories, nothing is stopping the player from trying whacky builds. That's one of my favorite part of Three Houses- it gives all you the flexibility to teach your students whatever subjects you want,  allowing for the potential for crazy sets. This is Three Houses telling you, " These characters are blank slates, its time for you to mold and train them to whatever role you need. " Being able to customize your characters in any way you want to fit is a staple of the RPG genere, and this is Three Houses way of doing it. Whether or not your crazy builds succeed is another question, but I myself have done builds that have use a character's weakness as one of the requirements.  

I don't see why its odd to compare games who are years apart. People always say the recent FE games have terrible map design, and they should go back to something big and complex like Shadow Dragon or Genealogy. As for third point, I was just disagreeing with the units who you bench. 

 

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

) Ah basic unit variety. What every other FE game has inherently, we now declare a great feat of the game. 2) What, a Falcon Knight with Alert Stance being a great dodge tank? Never ever have I heard of that before. Immediately followed by mentioning the same unit build in two different camapigns... yeah no. Map reuse + same unit builds = boring game.  

Did you even read my post on XY and why I love it and how its comparable to Three Houses? That is a grossly simplified explanation of why I don't find the map reuse of Three Houses an issue. In my post, How the player attempts each map varied depending on the two factors: The students they recruited and the type of class they are. Unlike a game like Awakening , Fates, or Echoes, where the player had a guaranteed set amount of units they would have recruited by each chapter, all in a certain class with a certain weapon rank. Not in Three Houses. A player might not have not a warp user to clear Chapter 16's map if they just used their default Blue Lions students without recruiting a single warp user, or none their units are a mage. But in contrast, if the player was using the default Golden Deer students to clear Chapter 16, the warp option is avalible thanks to Lysithea being a member of the house by default. To put the point simply, how each player approaches each map  and what strategies they use will be different depending on who they have recruited and what classes they are in currently in. And since the majority of the player units ( At least their chosen house ) will be a different role for each run due to starting as villager, it renders strategies that would have worked for all players in previous games due to each units already being in a pre-determined advanced class and being guranteed recruitments. That's why I find Three Houses reused maps not an issue- every time I play through the maps, its a different experience and I use different strategies and units. 

 

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

I don´t think I ever bothered wit Gifts/Lost Items and instead just had them stuff themselves and that was good enough. Did I say TH supports were useless? No I didn´t. 

 

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

This has practically nothing to do with what I wrote. And personally I don´t have a fuck to give about Fodlans world - I´d like to play the game not listen to the lore of the land, thank you very much.

 

Oh, what a pity. I always made sure I always returned lost items to students once I got them. It's a great way to develop points for the professor level as well as learning more about the interests of the people of the academy. That being said, I understand why you don't enjoy Three Houses. As I've stated above and is my main point still, Three Houses is a game that rewards you for getting invested into the world of Fodlan: its history, culture, people, and practices The more you invest, the better the rewards. Activities like returning items and minigames help you learn about your allies what histories they have and how Fodlan's current politics affect them. Obviously someone who just wants to go to battle with minor breaks and does not care about the history or current story of Three Houses in not going to like this game because it wants you to care about Fodlan, its people, and its future. And for those who invest in these people and social issues, they get the better rewards, which is a good thing because towards a play style that is enhanced by those features.

4 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Love the comparison! I may need to go revisit XY now! I certainly didn't hate the game, since it brought with it a lot of cool mainstay features like skin tone changing - FINALLY - and clothing options and multiple (semi-)important side characters that journey with you. But I also didn't love it either. Admittedly, I did like the grinding aspect. XY is an easy game to grind money and exp in, and that made it pretty simple overall. But I didn't mind that. 

Thanks! A potentially big reason why grinding is so easy in XY is because competitive battling became a lot more prominent when XY came out, with notable change being that Legendary Pokemon were guaranteed 31 IVs while the Destiny Knot passes down 5 IVs when breeding instead of three.

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On 8/3/2021 at 8:00 PM, Ottservia said:

Not really because he didn’t mention the fact that it was out of character for that character in particular. I’ve only played like an hour of xenoblade 1 and I haven’t touched Xenoblade 2 in like 4 years so my knowledge of the material is rather shallow. like I said earlier the argument is vague because he didn’t give the added context just saying a “character saying he would  betray the group in private”. You giving me that added context actually makes what he was trying to argue make more sense. Even then I wouldn’t call it contrived so much as it is just as it is inconsistent.

The full context would be a bit spoilerly. But here goes. 

Spoiler

 

The character in question is Dickson who's the adoptive father of the main character and the old war buddy of another main character. He's a bit rough around the edges and a bit mysterious but overall very helpful and affectionate in his own little way. He's also a complete psychopath who's only faking his affection and once he betrays the party takes great joy in picking their greatest insecurities and tormenting them with it. 

The problem here is that the reveal of who Dickson really is could have genuinely caught the player off guard if Dickson hadn't mumbled to himself ''Lol I'm betraying these kids'' very early in the game. Which makes it a case of bad foreshadowing because it takes away from the character and the story rather than adding to it. At the point where he mutters ''lol I'm betraying these kids'' its not a question where Dickson's loyalty lies anymore but a question of when he'll turn on the party. It also undermines the good bits of foreshadowing regarding Dickson. At one points a character with dubious allegiance notes they can trust Dickson's views on the main character because ''He has known him longer than any of us'' which at that point seems to refer to Dickson being Shulk's dad, but retroactively becomes foreshadowing about this conversation referring to someone else entirely and that Dickson knowing this particular person is highly suspicious. Dickson getting uncharacteristically angry in private when the main character fails only to mere moments later teasingly embrace him and express joy to see him also counts as a bit of foreshadowing when you realize how artificial his behavior around the main cast really is. 

The case about Dickson ''knowing him better than all of us'' is good foreshadowing because retroactively you know this referred to Dickson being the chief lieutenant of the main villain. Dickson going ''Lol I'm betraying this kids'' is bad foreshadowing because it spoils a potentially surprising twist hours in advance.

 

 

Quote

Like I said I didn’t necessarily disagree with EE’s argument just the way it was argued. Maybe that wasn’t what he meant but that’s certainly what it sounded like or at the very least the argument was just way too vague and the crux of the argument makes very little sense. Also it’s not like the game really treats the Fates characters throwing their kids in the deeprealm as a good thing. A lot of the time it creates friction between the kids and their parents like with Nina and Niles, Laslow and Soleil, Percy and Arthur, etc.

 

Sure. I think that's the sole sliver of interest that can be extracted from the deeprealm. The game at least acknowledges its a bit messed up. But ultimately that's not fixing the root issue that the deeprealms just don't have any real place in the story. Its a plotline full of gibberish that's only there because the writers(or actually rather the marketing team) wanted child units and were willing to twist and to break everything in order to get their child units. 

Not only is it painfully detached from the story at large but its also nonsensical and makes the second gen worse by virtue of their connection with it.

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9 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

When I say player, I mean Byleth, who is an Avatar for the player. Yes, it’s take a while to grind for ranks and skills to improve students. That’s the whole point. And that’s why I say Three Houses rewards players who really gets involved in the Monastery and are willing to learn about Fódlan and the people who inhabit it. A game that makes you work towards goal and requires effort to unlock mechanics  isn’t bad thing at all, and in case, it’s a really good thing, because in the process you are learning about the students you wish to recruit and the rich culture, history, and social issues of Fódlan. 

+1! This is probably my first FE game that I actually enjoy the story and pay attention to it. I'm currently in CF, and I notice a lot of small details about Byleth and Edelgard that makes sense to me how she acts more heroic (or at least less villainous) than in the other routes. Once I move to AM and others, I'm sure I'll be able to see the same bits and pieces with Dimitri, Claude, and Rhea. My personal view is that it also feels like an allegorical social commentary against Japan, critiquing how conformity and the status quo prevalent in the country (shown as the church's establishment) is ultimately detrimental for the nation in the long-term (even if is much less painful in the shorter term). There's also parallels of how groundbreaking reform often came at high prices in the forms of upheavals. For example, abolition of feudalism in the Middle Ages only came because of the Black Death. The decolonization, the welfare state and NHS in Britain, and the downfall of militarism in Japan etc all came at great cost and upheaval in the form of World War 2 (and in some cases also World War 1). The abolition of nation-wide segregation came in the form of unrest through the Civil Rights Movement. And so on.

9 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

X and Y get a lot of hate in the Pokémon community for being too easy and the story being terrible. Despite that though, I still love XY and always have a blast replaying it despite how linear both the story and Kalos is. The saving grace of XY is its amazing diversity of Pokémon.

I actually prefer XY because of how easy it is. Just because I'm an adult doesn't mean I have all the time to muck around with movesets, abilities, and attack power etc. I've got commitments in life.

But the biggest aspect I prefer XY over ORAS/DPPt/BW is the Kalos region itself. This was the first time we had something explicitly overseas (BW doesn't have the 'Murica depiction in its setting and characters and therefore doesn't eally count in my view), the first time since GSC that the similarity to its real-life culture is made explicit again, and I think they've done a good job depicting Poke-France. Maybe not quite the same as when the nations and the societies are explicitly mentioned to be the "same as our unless otherwise noted" like in RBY and GSC, but I really like the reinterpretation of an idealized version of our world. And looking back now, this is what ultimately influenced how the settings for SM and SwSh were approached (more explicitly Hawaiian/British) and I greatly prefer this to the wishy-washy setting of the not-quite-Japanese RSE and DPPt.

Edited by henrymidfields

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14 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Oh, what a pity. I always made sure I always returned lost items to students once I got them. It's a great way to develop points for the professor level as well as learning more about the interests of the people of the academy. That being said, I understand why you don't enjoy Three Houses. As I've stated above and is my main point still, Three Houses is a game that rewards you for getting invested into the world of Fodlan: its history, culture, people, and practices The more you invest, the better the rewards. Activities like returning items and minigames help you learn about your allies what histories they have and how Fodlan's current politics affect them. Obviously someone who just wants to go to battle with minor breaks and does not care about the history or current story of Three Houses in not going to like this game because it wants you to care about Fodlan, its people, and its future. And for those who invest in these people and social issues, they get the better rewards, which is a good thing because towards a play style that is enhanced by those features.

 

I'm not really trying to sound like an ass but I disagree.

For Lost Items, you generally have little-to-no hints (such as one of Shamir's items being hinted at only by a single support) so you just mash every item on every person and half the time due to this, you're not even sure which of the 20 items you went through was actually what you gave them, I honestly don't know over half of what items I turned in actually were.

I need to kinda ask, how much of this actually requires the Academy?

With the single exception of the Library (Which I'd argue narrators in previous FE games covered for the most part) nothing about lore requires the Academy, characters generally don't say anything of interest and the few actually meaningful things that matter, could have easily fit in a pre-battle cutscene in an older FE game/Talking in a village in Echoes.

As someone who has actually gone out of their way to talk to everyone..most of the dialogue doesn't matter, it's fluff and filler without meaning most of the dialogue is pretty much everyone saying the same thing but slightly filtered through their personality for the most part, very little of it in my experience actually has made me know more about the world and if anything, it just adds more pointless dialogue that makes it easier to forget when someone says something actually meaningful, because it's buried under 20 different flavours of "Hey Professor did you know "Insert Current Plot Thread but slightly filtered" is going on?" I honestly forgot character traits til others mentioned them/I saw later because I talked to them, talked to everyone else's recycled dialogue and then it got forgotten in the sea of pointless dialogue.

Infact more often than not, it's frustrating when something comes up...then people just don't talk about it even though they should, Why does Jeralt know Leonie? for instance, it should be something we learn in the Academy by talking to either Jeralt/Leonie but nope, it's in a support, can I ask Rhea what exactly constitutes the Death Penalty because that concerns me? Nope.

Personally, I don't agree with this, the few worthwhile bits of dialogue could have easily fitted in a Pre-battle cutscene (Like FE7 did alot with the Lords) or a talk bit in a village.

Edited by Samz707

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On 8/6/2021 at 3:44 AM, ZeManaphy said:

As I've stated above and is my main point still, Three Houses is a game that rewards you for getting invested into the world of Fodlan: its history, culture, people, and practices The more you invest, the better the rewards. Activities like returning items and minigames help you learn about your allies what histories they have and how Fodlan's current politics affect them. Obviously someone who just wants to go to battle with minor breaks and does not care about the history or current story of Three Houses in not going to like this game because it wants you to care about Fodlan, its people, and its future. And for those who invest in these people and social issues, they get the better rewards, which is a good thing because towards a play style that is enhanced by those features.

This is probably my favorite thing about Three Houses, which is quite a compliment since there are many things in that game I don’t care for. The game wants you to interact with the world and characters, learn more, and immerse yourself in it. This is one of my favorite qualities about video games, and it is something I’m trying to do in the game I’m currently developing, Outcasts of the Rift. I love that Three Houses puts more emphasis on the immersive qualities than other Fire Emblem games (though Fates and Shadows of Valentia took steps in the right direction.) What's a shame is that with Three Houses does all of this is in service of a cast, lore and world that I don’t find especially interesting.

On 8/6/2021 at 7:00 AM, henrymidfields said:

But the biggest aspect I prefer XY over ORAS/DPPt/BW is the Kalos region itself. This was the first time we had something explicitly overseas (BW doesn't have the 'Murica depiction in its setting and characters and therefore doesn't eally count in my view), the first time since GSC that the similarity to its real-life culture is made explicit again, and I think they've done a good job depicting Poke-France. Maybe not quite the same as when the nations and the societies are explicitly mentioned to be the "same as our unless otherwise noted" like in RBY and GSC, but I really like the reinterpretation of an idealized version of our world. And looking back now, this is what ultimately influenced how the settings for SM and SwSh were approached (more explicitly Hawaiian/British) and I greatly prefer this to the wishy-washy setting of the not-quite-Japanese RSE and DPPt.

Part of why Sun and Moon are two of my favorite Pokémon games (only behind Ruby and Sapphire and their remakes) is for this reason. Alola is hugely atmospheric and has a distinctly different feel than every other game in the series. The elements that make Sun and Moon unique draw from the world/lore of the game rather than feeling put in purely for the sake of gameplay. The Pokémon feel like creatures in a cohesive ecosystem that is unique to the region. Sun and Moon had just the right amount of change in a series that was quickly becoming formulaic, but didn’t change it in a way that removed good additions from past games.

I have the latter criticism about Fire Emblem: the series avoids being formulaic, but the developers often remove good ideas that were popular with fans for seemingly no reason. E.g. could something similar to Dragon Veins have been incorporated into Three Houses, but explained with a different in-universe reason? Popular classes like Malig Knight, Maid and Butler would fit in fine with the setting. With Pokémon there is clear progress with each game, where each game feels more polished than the last, but I don’t feel that way about Fire Emblem.

Edited by Magenta Fantasies

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4 hours ago, Magenta Fantasies said:

I have the latter criticism about Fire Emblem: the series avoids being formulaic, but the developers often remove good ideas that were popular with fans for seemingly no reason. E.g. could something similar to Dragon Veins have been incorporated into Three Houses, but explained with a different in-universe reason? Popular classes like Malig Knight, Maid and Butler would fit in fine with the setting. With Pokémon there is clear progress with each game, where each game feels more polished than the last, but I don’t feel that way about Fire Emblem.

I think dragon veins could easily be transformed into a ''strategy'' mechanic in later games. A lot of times the actions of the dragon veins weren't really magical but instead military tactics like fire attacks or flooding certain regions. 

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5 hours ago, Magenta Fantasies said:

I have the latter criticism about Fire Emblem: the series avoids being formulaic, but the developers often remove good ideas that were popular with fans for seemingly no reason. E.g. could something similar to Dragon Veins have been incorporated into Three Houses, but explained with a different in-universe reason? Popular classes like Malig Knight, Maid and Butler would fit in fine with the setting. With Pokémon there is clear progress with each game, where each game feels more polished than the last, but I don’t feel that way about Fire Emblem.

Interestingly, I've heard that exact same criticism used against Pokémon and the features that are removed there. Stuff like pokémon following you in the overworld, mega evolutions, ride pokémon, the national pokédex, etc. have all been removed. And how any individual feels about their removal is going to depend on how much they liked those features. Personally, I liked ride pokémon so I see removing that as a retrograde step, but I didn't like mega evolutions or the national pokédex so I see removing them as removing clutter. Ask someone else and you'll get a different opinion. It's the same with Fire Emblem. I didn't care for Dragon Veins or the Maid and Butler classes, so I'm personally glad they didn't show up in Three Houses. I did quite like the Malig Knight, though, and think that would have been nice to have. But that's just me.

I'm also generally cautious around any claims that something or other is popular with fans in general. I know what I like, I've a pretty good idea of what my friends like and what people on this forum like, and a moderate idea of what the wider English-language online Fire Emblem fandom likes, but even that is only scratching the surface of the games' player base. I've no idea what's popular in Japan or Brazil or Korea or Germany. I've no idea what's popular with the millions of people who buy and play the game but then never once talk about it online. But the game companies often do. They have community managers and market research and data analytics and all that sort of stuff. That's not to say that they know everything about what's popular and what's not, but they have a better idea than we do.

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I'm not sure how popular this is, but it's something that gave me the impression that it's not all that popular. It could be just that people are being very vocal against this. I think I can understand both Edelgard and Rhea's motivations and actions.

Spoiler

The former was the aggressor and who instigated everything, but as the backstory with crests, the power of the church and its vested interests in keeping the class structure, Dimitri's unhealthy lust for revenge at who he thought wronged him, and the presence of agarthans and their aggression (and maybe Rhea's unhealthy obsession with both the Spanish Inquisition and Byleth at the possible expense of actually managing the church) shows, I am doubtful that there was any peaceful solution.

Even without the mole people, one can only look to real-life history to show that real fundemental change were mostly carried with great sorrow and great disruption to the establishment.

  • The end of feudalism? The Black Plague had a major part in that.
  • The British welfare system, the restructuring against the Victorian-age class stratification, and particularly NHS? That was because of the two World Wars and maybe the Great Depression. (And see here for an article that supports this line of thinking - Can inequality only be fixed by war, revolution or plague? (The Economist), History suggests there is a way to lower inequality. But you’re not going to like it. (The Washington Post))
  • Democratization and decolonization of the Home Countries in the Japanese Empire? Also due to World War 2 and Japan's surrender.
  • Japan's surrender? Well, I'm one of the few Japanese that see the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as inevitable for that to happen, even though I don't approve of it. (Heck if the Kyujo Incident indicates to me anything, even that might not have been enough.)
  • The Meiji Restoration and the subsequent modernization of Japan? Probably would not have happened if Satsuma and Choshu (or any other fiefdoms) did not start the Boshin War against the Tokugawa Shogunate. At least not to the same extent.
  • Modernization of France (and the rest of Europe)? Probably would not have happened to the same extent without the French Revolution and Napoleon being in power.

All of this shows just how vested and entrenched establishments can be.

If we even go further, we've seen wars waged for far more selfish and trigger-happy reasons than Edelgard's. Hong Kong is now regarded as one of the few places within the Sinosphere that was at least somewhat democratic - thus many resisting Chinese rule, especially over the past 2 years. Singapore, while not as much, is also at least developed with a generally higher standard of living compared to the rest of South East Asia. Back in the days however? They were acquired by the British Empire for profit, and the former's annexation was closely intertwined with the British pushing opium onto China.

Spoiler

At the same time, it is also true that Edelgard ended up instigating the war, even when she wasn't the direct cause of some of the death and destruction, like the Arianrhod Incident, or Rhea's torching of Firidad in CF. And let's face it, there would also be a lot of mass mental issues, not just from the direct traumas from war, but also from losing the social foundation of the church, which would be a legitimate concern for Rhea regardless.

At the end of the day, I don't really see a problem with this kind of story - though I don't deny that there are some problems with how Three Houses is written. It's way better written than FE Fates nonsensical depiction of Hoshido vs Nohr, and more importantly, it isn't real-life politicians we're dealing with at the end of the day.

Edited by henrymidfields

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On 8/7/2021 at 6:52 PM, lenticular said:

I'm also generally cautious around any claims that something or other is popular with fans in general. I know what I like, I've a pretty good idea of what my friends like and what people on this forum like, and a moderate idea of what the wider English-language online Fire Emblem fandom likes, but even that is only scratching the surface of the games' player base. I've no idea what's popular in Japan or Brazil or Korea or Germany. I've no idea what's popular with the millions of people who buy and play the game but then never once talk about it online. But the game companies often do. They have community managers and market research and data analytics and all that sort of stuff. That's not to say that they know everything about what's popular and what's not, but they have a better idea than we do.

Seconding this. It bugs me whenever a critic or commentator says something along the lines of "this is what the fans want" or "this will make fans ecstatic/disgusted/disappointed/etc.". No fanbase is a monolith; different fans of a series, particularly one with a long history and large fanbase, will want different things out of that series. Anyone can speak in their own interest - or, perhaps, in the interest of a particular subset of fans - but nobody knows what an entire fanbase wants.

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Exactly this why is I said I know what North American fans want as opposed to the rest of the world. In my opinion on forums most people hates for example: avatar as protagonist but FYI I think of america as the continent not just the continent. I genuinely don’t know what other countries and their fans of the series like in fe rn

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