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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It was a response to the last isolated portion. About how Alm seemed special then the reveal that yes, he was of royal birth. My point is that most of that "specialness" is preambled by the actions he does, which are not a result of his special bloodline but rather more to his upbringing.

The problem with that is that it wasn't an isolated portion; it was a direct continuation of the point I was making in the paragraph above it. I think you may have misunderstood what I was getting at by only reading it out-of-context.

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3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

The problem with that is that it wasn't an isolated portion; it was a direct continuation of the point I was making in the paragraph above it. I think you may have misunderstood what I was getting at by only reading it out-of-context.

No, I saw that.

It's a result of Alm being assigned Duma's ideology... which is already similar to the whole "no guidance from the gods" the game pushes for in the end. It wasn't meant to be fully equal in role to that of Celica's, save for the kindness bit being the missing piece to the self-sufficient one.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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33 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Alm having the right ideals to lead is honestly a problem with the game,

I didn't mean to imply he had it from the beginning. Repeatedly he rejects the throne, lacking in that ideal until he accepts that he needs Celica's wisdom as well as his strength to rule.

 

32 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Alm having the right ideals to lead is honestly a problem with the game,

To quote myself from earlier

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

And yet Celica is proven right. Her trust in the gods is justified, and her self sacrifice necessary for Mother Mila to unseal the Falchion, and doom her brother to death. She even helps Alm understand her position by forcing upon him a moment of true faith, put in a position where his only choice to save her is in trusting in Mila that stabbing Celica will have good results, despite all evidence to the contrary. Martyrdom is a very old and powerful idea that the game doesn't believe is worthless, despite your opinion of it.

I don't see the soul eating as Celica's ultimate failure, but her success. It isn't as one sided as it seems, although the later acts end up calling upon a lot of very old western themes (in this case very christian themes), which when filtered through a foreign lens lead to some strange feelings.

 

32 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

 

Alm is just so amazing and can do no wrong; all the girls want him and all the guys want to be him, and no one can stop talking about how there was always something just so special about him and none of them could figure out what it is... and he's revealed to have been secret royalty. Can you seriously not see why that's a problem?

Alm does wrong repeatedly. In that early argument on the roof with Celica, the game makes a point of having Alm chiding himself for not asking questions he should have about their shared past, that would have led to him discovering the truth about Celica, and let him avoid the touchy subject of her awful father that drove her to the point of tears. In multiple chapters he endangers prisoners with his hasty attacks (again the game points it out with special dialogue to emphasize that Alm's decisions are at fault if they die). When he kills his own father it is the result of his own willful ignorance; he is given all the evidence he needs to discover the truth, and the game even points out that Alm knows Clive has discovered some hidden truth about Alm, and yet he refuses to press him, to emphasize that fact that this blindness is willful. Alm may have a strength of both arms, and personality, but his lack of wisdom is shown repeatedly as a weakness of his. Sorry if this seems rushed, but I am feeling a bit too lazy to go find and copy one of the versions of this argument I made that includes numerous quotes (and a few more minor examples).

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54 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Alm's actions are more dictated by his upbringing in Ram than his royal origins. True, we see in Jugdral just what is possible for dragon-blessed bloodlines to do, but ultimately... Alm still forged his ideals and did his actions thanks to the commoner POV he grew up with. Not because of said special blood. Proving how it matters little that he was secretly royalty. His character was not determined by his birthright, or chained to it like Lima IV's or Berkut's were.

The misconception here is that I actually don’t believe his hard work is negated by being Royal because it isn’t but the story constantly likes to remind you otherwise. You have multiple instances of Gray and Tobin noting they are inferior to Alm because he’s “different”, that Alm is a natural born leader, Zeke is told to join Alm because of his special birthmark, he can only wield the royal sword because he is royal, he can only wield Falchion because he is royal, he is the chosen one because of his special birthmark and because he is royal, etc. do you see my problem now?

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

The misconception here is that I actually don’t believe his hard work is negated by being Royal because it isn’t but the story constantly likes to remind you otherwise. You have multiple instances of Gray and Tobin noting they are inferior to Alm because he’s “different”, that Alm is a natural born leader, Zeke is told to join Alm because of his special birthmark, he can only wield the royal sword because he is royal, he can only wield Falchion because he is royal, he is the chosen one because of his special birthmark and because he is royal, etc. do you see my problem now?

Yes. That you're letting the Alm thing blind you to all the other cases where the ideals are upheld and enforced, while those of the likes of Fernand get proven wrong time and again. Alm isn't the only character that exists in the game, protagonist or not.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes. That you're letting the Alm thing blind you to all the other cases where the ideals are upheld. Alm isn't the only character that exists in the game, protagonist or not.

Yes but he is the protagonist and as such shouldn’t contradict the themes of the story and all the other examples of it the ideals being true would be fine if they were actually give significant focus but they aren’t because permadeath so those instances don’t really count for much

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1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

Yes but he is the protagonist and as such shouldn’t contradict the themes of the story and all the other examples of it the ideals being true would be fine if they were actually give significant focus but they aren’t because permadeath so those instances don’t really count for much

Well, he's not letting the reveal of his origins change the character he nurtured or the ideals he preached. So he's not letting his birthright define him or chain him down.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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17 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, he's not letting the reveal of his origins change the character he nurtured or the ideals he preached. So he's not letting his birthright define him or chain him down.

He’s not letting it but that doesn’t change the fact that they actually do define him whether he agrees with it or not. his royal lineage does define him. It’s his royal lineage that makes him a good leader. It’s his royal lineage that allows him to wield the royal sword. It’s his royal lineage that makes him the chosen one, it’s his royal lineage that define the flaws in his ideals. His royal lineage defines everything about him as a character and he doesn’t fight those things. He isn’t challenged by them(or at all really) and that’s the problem. He is chained down by his lineage because he can’t fight or reject it. Alm is a prophicized chosen one. He was destined to save Valentia those are the circumstances regarding his birth and station. He doesn’t at all overcome or fight  those circumstances. And again his lineage does not hinder him at all. 

Edited by Ottservia

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

It’s his royal lineage that makes him a good leader.

It isn't. You yourself brought up the quote where the developers said Berkut is what Alm would have been if he was raised in Rigel, and Berkut is not a good leader. If Alm's royal blood is what makes him a good leader, than Berkut would be a good leader too.

 

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

It’s his royal lineage that allows him to wield the royal sword.

Its more than just his lineage that lets him wield the royal sword, unlike Fates his swords don't magically fly into his hand, Alm has to earn it through his actions.

 

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

His royal lineage defines everything about him as a character and he doesn’t fight those things.

He repeatedly rejects the idea of him becoming king. He willfully refuses to even learn the secret of his birth. He literally kills every other member of his lineage he meets. How much more fighting against his royal lineage does he need to do before you are satisfied?

 

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Alm is a prophicized chosen one. He was destined to save Valentia those are the circumstances regarding his birth and station. He doesn’t at all overcome or fight  those circumstances.

Alm is very explicit about not believing he is destined, even when he finally hears about the prophecy. While Celica's actions are guided by her belief in her destiny, Alm's are not. You could even interpret Alm pushing his destined partner Celica away in their argument when she confronts him with the idea of him becoming king as another moment where he defies his destiny. Outside of Alm trying to actively destroy the world, how else would he defy it?

 

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

And again his lineage does not hinder him at all. 

Clive almost betraying him after discovering his secret origin, Nuibaba trying to entrap him with magic thanks to his destiny, Rudolph setting up his elaborate plan to manipulate Alm to his misery, Berkut willingly embracing Duma's power because of Alm's lineage, Jedah trying to get Celica to feed Alm to Duma because of his brand. If none of these challenges hinder him, what would something that hinders him look like?

 

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3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It was a response to the last isolated portion. About how Alm seemed special then the reveal that yes, he was of royal birth. My point is that most of that "specialness" is preambled by the actions he does, which are not a result of his special bloodline but rather more to his upbringing.

His upbringing by Mycen, which happens because of whose child he is and because he has a brand and has to be hidden, and which took into account that he would need to assume a leadership role one day. His bloodline and his upbringing are two different things but they're not entirely separate; he may have plowed the fields, but he wasn't raised like a peasant who would do nothing else all his life.

 

Edited by Kori

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16 hours ago, Ottservia said:

It’s as I said. They would be good if 3H was a finished story because as it stands 3H is not a finished story. The amount of times the story sets up a conflict only to never deliver on it is just baffling. Crimson Flower being the most egregious example where the agarthans get the most focus with an actual place in the story. But then they’re just taken out off screen in the epilogue which is the most anti-climatic way to handle it. Cause the problem with the Agarthans is that they are so important to 3H’s narrative and world yet at the same their existence in said narrative is negligible at best. And again the story sets them up as a mysterious big bad manipulating things from the shadows as early as white clouds. But it’s never delivered on. And the ideas they set up with the agarthans are interesting ones but they never deliver on those ideas.

That's complete conjecture. We can imagine things being better if we want, but we all know IS is fully capable of making a finished story that's also bad. Things shouldn't get a pass on the basis that they're incomplete. In fact it should be the opposite. Things that are obviously incomplete but are published anyway should receive heavy criticism. Because things can only be judged for what they are, not what they could have been in a parallel timeline. Three Houses development issues are a result of poor management and poor management is just as big an issue as poor writing is when it comes to creating a project like this.

Edited by Jotari

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13 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

He repeatedly rejects the idea of him becoming king. He willfully refuses to even learn the secret of his birth. He literally kills every other member of his lineage he meets. How much more fighting against his royal lineage does he need to do before you are satisfied?

That‘s not true. He does become King, under the title “ Saint King Alm “. No he doesn’t, he openly demands to ask Mycen why people are calling him a prince- never does he denounce his Royal heritage. It’s true that he kills his blood family, but that doesn’t matter. He still is destined to kill Duma, regardless of who he kills in the end. He commits a terrible sin, but he isn’t punished in the same way Celica is held as a hostage and has her party fighting terrors. Instead, Alm and his party continue their goal of slaying Duma. It would have made no difference if Rudolf died or not. 

14 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Its more than just his lineage that lets him wield the royal sword, unlike Fates his swords don't magically fly into his hand, Alm has to earn it through his actions.

That’s completely untrue. The game shows us for a fact that only Royalty can use the sword, the game shows that’s true because Tobin tries to pick up the sword but he fails, while Alm successfully picks a hint to his birth. 
 

Actually, the Yato chooses the person destined to bring peace to the world, not because they are a Royal, suggesting that the Yato doesn’t care about lineage. 

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No matter what, the themes objectively cannot be contradicted in the story because the side cast is canonically integral to Alm's success and numerous characters are interwoven perfectly into the world. Gray, Tobin, Kliff, (Faye too I guess), Forsyth, Python, and Lukas rising above their stations to become an important part of the Deliverance for example. Alm brings the best of both a common man and a noble man. Him being a royal doesn't destroy what he preaches, it only reinforces the best of both worlds otherwise what's the point of preaching that men have merit regardless of station if the game ONLY shits on nobles and ONLY puts commoners on a pedestal? 

Edited by Seazas

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2 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

That‘s not true. He does become King, under the title “ Saint King Alm “.

And before he kills his father, he makes a very clear point that he doesn't want the throne, multiple time. It is only at the end, after he and Celica are reunited that he becomes King.

 

5 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

No he doesn’t, he openly demands to ask Mycen why people are calling him a prince- never does he denounce his Royal heritage.

I am referencing a lot of scenes around Act 3, where there is a plethora of evidence of his heritage, and he even has an argument with Clive about the fact the Alm knows that Clive has discovered some dark secret about Alms origin, and Alm goes out of his way to say that he wont press him on the matter. Until his willful ignorance kills his own father, he actively remains in the dark about his lineage.

 

29 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

He commits a terrible sin, but he isn’t punished in the same way Celica is held as a hostage and has her party fighting terrors.

Indeed, the punishment Alm receives is far worse because it is permanent, while Celica's are transitory, made right before the game even ends.

 

35 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

He still is destined to kill Duma, regardless of who he kills in the end.

35 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Instead, Alm and his party continue their goal of slaying Duma. It would have made no difference if Rudolf died or not. 

It mattered to Alm. When he first hears of the prophecy he doesn't believe it, and even after he learns it is his father's dying wish, Alm doesn't talk about it like its destiny, he talks about fulfilling that promise to the dead, and rescuing Celica.

 

10 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

That’s completely untrue.

Alm earns the Royal Sword after he slays Desaix, pursuing him to his last defensive point. It wasn't simply his blood, but also his own actions that let him wield the Royal Sword. Even with the Falchion he had to pass through a set of trials to reach make it his to wield.

 

3 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

 

Actually, the Yato chooses the person destined to bring peace to the world, not because they are a Royal, suggesting that the Yato doesn’t care about lineage. 

If the Yato wasn't conveniently passed on to Corrin's kid in heirs of Fate I might actually believe you. Corrin is a royal of Valla, and even claims that throne at the end of Revelations, and every other legendary weapon associated with the Yato, that power it up, are all wielded by royals too, even in Heirs of Fate.

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7 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Indeed, the punishment Alm receives is far worse because it is permanent, while Celica's are transitory, made right before the game even ends.

Okay this point is actually fantastic. Celica's punishments are temporary while Alm's is eternal. He showed a clear yearning for family yet the blood of his cousin and especially his own father's in his hands. That's rougher by a fucking landslide lmao.

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13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

 

And before he kills his father, he makes a very clear point that he doesn't want the throne, multiple time. It is only at the end, after he and Celica are reunited that he becomes King.

 

It's only the Zofian throne he ever rejects. He shows not desire to reject the Throne of Rigel once it's revealed he has a blood right to it.

Edited by Jotari

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2 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Actually, the Yato chooses the person destined to bring peace to the world, not because they are a Royal, suggesting that the Yato doesn’t care about lineage. 

And honestly trying to compare SoV to Fates is like comparing apples to oranges. They’re different stories with completely different ideas they want to explore. I don’t complain about it in Fates or Awakening because those games don’t even attempt to explore that kind of message and even if they did they explore them in completely different ways and reach different conclusions so any what aboutism comparison in regards to them doesn’t work

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15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's only the Zofian throne he ever rejects. He shows not desire to reject the Throne of Rigel once it's revealed he has a blood right to it.

His conversation with Berkut in act 5 is a fair indicator that he was planning to give it up- he denies that this war was ever about ruling Rigel or Zofia, admits that the people of Rigel won’t accept him as a ruler easily (which is backed up by the soldiers practically shitting themselves in Rigel Castle after the battle), and says that Berkut IS someone the people trust. Granted, nothing is ever said explicitly, since otherwise Berkut might actually have reason to join Alm, but that was how I interpreted it at least.

 

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Yeah, ultimately Alm takes the Rigel throne since he's basically the only one left with any "right" to take it without causing an uproar. It's that or possibly risking a succession crisis that plunges the country into civil war as they all fight on who takes it. As it is, he'd rather just hand it over. Same how he brings up the rumors of Princess Anthieze still being alive and wishes she'd just show up and take the Zofian throne so he wouldn't have to deal with the Zofian people wanting him to take it himself for having got rid of Desaix.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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49 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Alm earns the Royal Sword after he slays Desaix, pursuing him to his last defensive point. It wasn't simply his blood, but also his own actions that let him wield the Royal Sword. Even with the Falchion he had to pass through a set of trials to reach make it his to wield.

 

Through that logic, I could argue that anyone else ( Faye, Clive, Clair ) deserves the sword since they helped defeat Desaix. But even if they wanted to possess the sword, they couldn't  because they don't have the royal blood, which Lukas states officially states only Royalty can use it. The sword doesn't choose people based off merit, it chooses it based off lineage, in this case Rigelian lineage, meaning Alm's merits mean nothing if he doesn't have the correct blood. Here's a quote of that conversation, from firemblewiki.org.

Spoiler

"Tobin: Whoa, look at this. Hey, Alm!
Alm: You find something, Tobin?
Tobin: I sure did. Feast your eyes on this baby! You think this is the treasure Desaix stole from Zofia Castle?
Alm: Well...it certainly looks important. Should we open it?
Tobin: Whooooooa! Check the sword! That is one impressive piece of hardware! I'm just gonna—
Tobin: Hng...! Whu... Huh? This thing weighs a ton! It won't...budge...
Lukas: This must be the Royal Sword of Zofia.
Alm: What's that?
Lukas: Long ago, Rigel presented this sword to Zofia as a symbol of friendship. It's a very special treasure—only one of royal blood can lift it.
Alm: Hmm... Interesting. Here, Tobin—let me have a go at it.
Tobin: You?! Pfft, please. If I can't lift it, there's no way that— Huh?!
Alm: Sometimes I don't get you, Tobin. This thing's light as a feather. Was this all some kind of jape? Who put you up to this?
Tobin: But...but it wasn't a jape! Zero japes! I thought my arms would snap just trying to lift it!
Alm: Hmm. But that means...
Lukas: By the gods... You can wield the Royal Sword! ...Hmm, what DOES that mean? Alm, are you...
Alm: ...... O-oh, come on. It's just some legend. You don't actually BELIEVE it, right? I'm sure everyone can use this thing! Well, except Tobin. And...um... Look, I'm sure the Zofian royals made up a story to keep folks from nicking it.
Lukas: ...Well, that didn't exactly work out now, did it? But perhaps you're right. Tales do have a habit of getting taller with time. Either way, it seems clear the blade belongs with you.
Alm: Are you sure? I mean, we could have other people give it a shot.
Lukas: It wouldn't work. You alone seem able to tame this legend. And we wouldn't want to see so fine a treasure wasted, would we? Take it.
Alm: Well...all right...
" — Tobin, Alm, and Lukas, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

 

49 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I am referencing a lot of scenes around Act 3, where there is a plethora of evidence of his heritage, and he even has an argument with Clive about the fact the Alm knows that Clive has discovered some dark secret about Alms origin, and Alm goes out of his way to say that he wont press him on the matter. Until his willful ignorance kills his own father, he actively remains in the dark about his lineage.

Alm doesn't know that he's a royal though. The game implies it, but throughout his whole life as far as he can remember, he was a farmboy. He denies the strange signs of being royalty in Act 3 not because he wants to denounce his heritage, but because he's clueless about his birth and the signs contradict his life as a farmer which he has known ever since being a boy. 

 

54 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It mattered to Alm. When he first hears of the prophecy he doesn't believe it, and even after he learns it is his father's dying wish, Alm doesn't talk about it like its destiny, he talks about fulfilling that promise to the dead, and rescuing Celica.

Ultimately though, Alm eventually slays Duma sucessfully freeing Valentia from gods, which was described in Halycon's prophecy. Regardless of what Alm's feelings, he fulfills the destiny that Halycon proclaimed: The two brand bearers would save Valentia. 

 

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If the Yato wasn't conveniently passed on to Corrin's kid in heirs of Fate I might actually believe you. Corrin is a royal of Valla, and even claims that throne at the end of Revelations, and every other legendary weapon associated with the Yato, that power it up, are all wielded by royals too, even in Heirs of Fate.

Its never stated that the Yato requires someone to be a royal. You cannot deny the possibility that being a Royal is not a requirement for for lengendary weapons in Fates. 

 

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Him being a royal doesn't destroy what he preaches, it only reinforces the best of both worlds otherwise what's the point of preaching that men have merit regardless of station if the game ONLY shits on nobles and ONLY puts commoners on a pedestal? 

Alm didn't earn the right to the throne through merit. He inherited it from his father, who was the emperor of the nation. It was his birthright. Its true that Tobin and Alm get to be knights, but  Python and Faye ends up living a quiet life in the village, while Forsyth remains where he started , as a knight. And even if the game sucessfully shows that characters can rise because of their merit, its also gives the impression that one's birth is also important for determining merit, thanks to Alm's birth. 

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7 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

The sword doesn't choose people based off merit, it chooses it based off lineage, in this case Rigelian lineage, meaning Alm's merits mean nothing if he doesn't have the correct blood.

The sword doesn't chose anything, again this isn't Fates. Alm wouldn't have the sword unless he acted. That requirement for action is more than just blood.

 

4 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Alm doesn't know that he's a royal though. The game implies it, but throughout his whole life as far as he can remember, he was a farmboy. He denies the strange signs of being royalty in Act 3 not because he wants to denounce his heritage, but because he's clueless about his birth and the signs contradict his life as a farmer which he has known ever since being a boy. 

He doesn't know because he refuses to learn. Even if you ignore all of the moments where he denies all of the strange sign

Quote

 

Alm: Clive is clearly privy to some information he can’t share with us. Am I right, Clive?

Clive: Alm, please…

Alm: You’ve been acting strange for a while now. Whatever secret you’re harboring, I know it weighs heavy on you. I’ve been scared to broach the subject because I could sense it was about me.

Clive: ……

Alm knows that Clive has figured out a dark secret about him, and it is a very willful act to let him keep that secret. If Alm is clueless it is willfully so.

 

17 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Ultimately though, Alm eventually slays Duma sucessfully freeing Valentia from gods, which was described in Halycon's prophecy. Regardless of what Alm's feelings, he fulfills the destiny that Halycon proclaimed: The two brand bearers would save Valentia. 

Halycon's prophecy doesn't talk about freeing Valentia from the gods or slaying Duma, only  that the branded will save Valencia. Celica asks Halycon herself about the prophecy, and ends up sacrificing herself to Duma, fully believing she is fulfilling the prophecy by returning power to the gods. Perhaps she is right, and both brand bearers being consumed by Duma could let Duma blessing fill Valencia, hence saving it from starvation like the prophecy predicted. Perhaps Rudolph is right and the only way for the branded to save Valencia is to kill the mad gods, saving Valentia from their madness. Alm has a moment where he has to chose what he believes is right, and its his choice to end Duma.

Quote

 

Clair: Alm? I don’t wish to be vulgar, but… Well, what is the proper course of action for us now? Emperor Rudolf bade us defeat Duma, but Princess Anthiese asked us not to. Have we come this far simply to reach an impasse and accept it?

Lukas: One thing seems abundantly clear as things now stand: The chances of Zofia’s recovery are nearly extinguished. With Mila in her current state, there is little hope of change.

Tobin: No… But Celica is going to take care of Mila AND Duma for us, right?

Gray: Are you serious, Tobin?! You’re going to just sit around on your butt and let Celica die for us?!

Tobin: What? N-no! I don’t want that any more than you do! But what other choice do we have? There’s nothing left we CAN do!

Gray: ……

Alm: I’m not giving up.

Tobin: Huh?

Alm: I’m not giving up on her. Every part of me—every fiber of my being—says this is wrong. So we’re going to take down Duma and bring Celica home safe!

 

44 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Alm didn't earn the right to the throne through merit. He inherited it from his father, who was the emperor of the nation. It was his birthright.

Alm isn't the king of Rigel, he founds a new kingdom, a greater one than his "birthright", the One Kingdom of Valentia.

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1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

Alm didn't earn the right to the throne through merit. He inherited it from his father, who was the emperor of the nation. It was his birthright. Its true that Tobin and Alm get to be knights, but  Python and Faye ends up living a quiet life in the village, while Forsyth remains where he started , as a knight. And even if the game sucessfully shows that characters can rise because of their merit, its also gives the impression that one's birth is also important for determining merit, thanks to Alm's birth. 

This implies that Alm had no merit of his own to begin with. And to be fair it’s kinda unclear what would have happened if Alm hadn’t been Rudolf’s son- as the leader of the invading army, one could argue that that would leave him the de facto ruler of Rigel (unless he ceded the throne to Berkut or someone else).

 

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2 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Through that logic, I could argue that anyone else ( Faye, Clive, Clair ) deserves the sword since they helped defeat Desaix. But even if they wanted to possess the sword, they couldn't  because they don't have the royal blood, which Lukas states officially states only Royalty can use it. The sword doesn't choose people based off merit, it chooses it based off lineage, in this case Rigelian lineage, meaning Alm's merits mean nothing if he doesn't have the correct blood. Here's a quote of that conversation, from firemblewiki.org.

  Reveal hidden contents

"Tobin: Whoa, look at this. Hey, Alm!
Alm: You find something, Tobin?
Tobin: I sure did. Feast your eyes on this baby! You think this is the treasure Desaix stole from Zofia Castle?
Alm: Well...it certainly looks important. Should we open it?
Tobin: Whooooooa! Check the sword! That is one impressive piece of hardware! I'm just gonna—
Tobin: Hng...! Whu... Huh? This thing weighs a ton! It won't...budge...
Lukas: This must be the Royal Sword of Zofia.
Alm: What's that?
Lukas: Long ago, Rigel presented this sword to Zofia as a symbol of friendship. It's a very special treasure—only one of royal blood can lift it.
Alm: Hmm... Interesting. Here, Tobin—let me have a go at it.
Tobin: You?! Pfft, please. If I can't lift it, there's no way that— Huh?!
Alm: Sometimes I don't get you, Tobin. This thing's light as a feather. Was this all some kind of jape? Who put you up to this?
Tobin: But...but it wasn't a jape! Zero japes! I thought my arms would snap just trying to lift it!
Alm: Hmm. But that means...
Lukas: By the gods... You can wield the Royal Sword! ...Hmm, what DOES that mean? Alm, are you...
Alm: ...... O-oh, come on. It's just some legend. You don't actually BELIEVE it, right? I'm sure everyone can use this thing! Well, except Tobin. And...um... Look, I'm sure the Zofian royals made up a story to keep folks from nicking it.
Lukas: ...Well, that didn't exactly work out now, did it? But perhaps you're right. Tales do have a habit of getting taller with time. Either way, it seems clear the blade belongs with you.
Alm: Are you sure? I mean, we could have other people give it a shot.
Lukas: It wouldn't work. You alone seem able to tame this legend. And we wouldn't want to see so fine a treasure wasted, would we? Take it.
Alm: Well...all right...
" — Tobin, Alm, and Lukas, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

 

Alm doesn't know that he's a royal though. The game implies it, but throughout his whole life as far as he can remember, he was a farmboy. He denies the strange signs of being royalty in Act 3 not because he wants to denounce his heritage, but because he's clueless about his birth and the signs contradict his life as a farmer which he has known ever since being a boy. 

 

Ultimately though, Alm eventually slays Duma sucessfully freeing Valentia from gods, which was described in Halycon's prophecy. Regardless of what Alm's feelings, he fulfills the destiny that Halycon proclaimed: The two brand bearers would save Valentia. 

 

Its never stated that the Yato requires someone to be a royal. You cannot deny the possibility that being a Royal is not a requirement for for lengendary weapons in Fates. 

 

Alm didn't earn the right to the throne through merit. He inherited it from his father, who was the emperor of the nation. It was his birthright. Its true that Tobin and Alm get to be knights, but  Python and Faye ends up living a quiet life in the village, while Forsyth remains where he started , as a knight. And even if the game sucessfully shows that characters can rise because of their merit, its also gives the impression that one's birth is also important for determining merit, thanks to Alm's birth. 

Alm only got the chance and becomes a good ruler because of merit, otherwise he'd eventually be overthrown and never have a dynasty. Hell, if he didn't have merit he would've led the Deliverance to ruin and never make it to realize he was a prince. He would've died on the battlefield. Alm has skill and merit, that is the truth. Just goes hand in hand with his birthright. Also, a lot of those commoners regardless of their endings became some of the most important members in the Deliverance and some of the more standout than the random generic soldiers that were present.

Edited by Seazas

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14 hours ago, Anathaco said:

His conversation with Berkut in act 5 is a fair indicator that he was planning to give it up- he denies that this war was ever about ruling Rigel or Zofia, admits that the people of Rigel won’t accept him as a ruler easily (which is backed up by the soldiers practically shitting themselves in Rigel Castle after the battle), and says that Berkut IS someone the people trust. Granted, nothing is ever said explicitly, since otherwise Berkut might actually have reason to join Alm, but that was how I interpreted it at least.

 

I can't remember anything with Berkut that suggests he's planning on rejecting the throne. So I think you might be reading into that a bit. Especially considering that would be after the scene with Celica and Jeddah behind the bars, wherein he solidly declares to his allies that he will be the emperor even if it means pillowing the fields himself.

14 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, ultimately Alm takes the Rigel throne since he's basically the only one left with any "right" to take it without causing an uproar. It's that or possibly risking a succession crisis that plunges the country into civil war as they all fight on who takes it. As it is, he'd rather just hand it over. Same how he brings up the rumors of Princess Anthieze still being alive and wishes she'd just show up and take the Zofian throne so he wouldn't have to deal with the Zofian people wanting him to take it himself for having got rid of Desaix.

Well Berkut, the actual supposed heir is still around (and unofficial materials say Rudolf actually came from a cadet family, so presumably the children or grandchildren of the Rigel IV still exist), but Alm doesn't really spare Berkut much thought until actually meeting him again.

Edited by Jotari

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Honestly, I always found Alm to be the most straightforward example of "the prince who is a swineherd but his kingliness shines through". It definitely debateable how much of Alm's exceptionalism is supposed to come from his heritage, and how much from his upbringing by Mycen, but because his character fits the mold so well, and because classic FE loved to give its nobles inherent special powers (only Marth can use the Falchion, only princesses can use the Aum staff, the Holy Blood in Jugdral), it's hard for me not to see Alm as a case of "more special because he's royalty". There's also some small lines like Mycen's "it must run in the blood" at the end of act 1, which don't mean too much on their own, but fit into this interpretation, as well.

Not sure where the idea of the Royal Sword taking a meriotocratic approach comes from:

Quote

Lukas: Long ago, Rigel presented this sword to Zofia as a symbol of friendship. It’s a very special treasure—only one of royal blood can lift it.

[...]

Lukas: By the gods… You can wield the Royal Sword! …Hmm, what DOES that mean? Alm, are you…

Alm: …… O-oh, come on. It’s just some legend. You don’t actually BELIEVE it, right? I’m sure everyone can use this thing! Well, except Tobin. And…um… Look, I’m sure the Zofian royals made up a story to keep folks from nicking it.

Lukas: …Well, that didn’t exactly work out now, did it? But perhaps you’re right. Tales do have a habit of getting taller with time. Either way, it seems clear the blade belongs with you.

Alm: Are you sure? I mean, we could have other people give it a shot.

Lukas: It wouldn’t work. You alone seem able to tame this legend. And we wouldn’t want to see so fine a treasure wasted, would we? Take it.

Alm interrupts Lukas just as he is about to suggest that Alm might be of royal blood - the way I read it, because he still struggles with the revelation that he might not be Mycen's "real" grandchild since the oldtimer at Zofia castle told him that Mycen had no wife nor children, and Alm doesn't want to hear futher proof that the oldtimer was correct.

I'd be interested where the game would suggest that Alm and Lukas are getting everything wrong here, because I didn't find anything of the sorts.

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