What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:31 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

You (not we) did that by ignoring all the levels before 20. For those earlier levels, the gap is larger than -1... up to -8. (There's also the -1 move to be considered.)

Hence why I roughly pointed out when Mozu surpasses Niles in key stats and in which maps that becomes the case, – ofc that presumes following my own preferred way of using Mozu. If used like Shrimpresident has mentioned, it would look different, but since I don´t do it that way, also not my place to talk about it.

On 1/5/2022 at 11:31 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Please read back on how Niles got brought into this conversation. It was when someone compared them directly, saying Mozu > Niles. I literally got into this conversation because I disagree with that take.

Though now that I understand you were only talking about Level 20 the rest of your statement makes sense so probably best just to drop it.

1 person making a comparison between 2 characters does not constitute a majority of the entire fandom. You also don´t disagree with this take - you disagree that Mozus combat is worse in the undefined first half of the game.

On 1/5/2022 at 11:31 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yes, Niles isn't anything special at fighting those ninjas. But he can double archers, onis, and with a single spd proc, spearfighters. Mozu needs seven speed procs to double the slowest of these enemies (five with a spd tonic, granted). And anything he doubles that she doesn't, he's going to do more damage against.

e.g. if Niles gets a single str proc, he can one-round archers with a Str Tonic. For the onis and spearfighters he'll probably need either a pairup or attack stance support, but he requires less than Mozu regardless, because of the doubling.

You are ready to extend every possible means to Niles to make his combat better, but don´t extend that to Mozu.

Everything is assumed with an unforged Iron Bow and average growths. 

SPD required to double Oni/Archer in chapter 10: 14. Fulfilled by base Niles and as of lvl 9 Mozu. Lvl 9 Mozu has 11 STR, lvl 12 Niles equalizes. Both require STR Tonic to 1RKO Archers, neither 1RKO Onis. As of lvl 10, by virtue of Quick Draw, Mozu doesn´t require a tonic to 1RKO Archers and with a tonic 1RKOs unpaired Onis. Alternatively, lvl 14 Niles (unrealistic) has enough STR  to 1rko Archers without help. Lvl 14 Niles would require, with tonic, an additional +3 dmg to 1rko unpaired Oni, +2 if we assume C-rank bows.  At earliest, lvl 18 (unrealistic) would Niles 1rko Onis with no further assistance. 

SPD required to double Spear Fighter in chapter 10: 16. Fulfilled by Niles as of lvl 9, Mozu as of lvl 11. In order to 1rko Spear Fighters Niles requires: 13 STR (as of lvl 16, unrealistic), 1x STR tonic. 1 point of STR can be substituted by c-rank Bow, thus lvl 14 Niles (unrealistic). As of lvl 10 Mozu requires a SPD tonic to 1rko Spear Fighters.

As of lvl 10 Mozu can 1hko Ninjas with a tonic and any way to add +3 dmg. Niles can do that at lvl 12, with tonic, c-rank, +3 PU and adjacency to Camilla. 

As for non doubling attacks: As of lvl 8 Mozu has caught up to base Niles, as of lvl 9 Mozu Niles must be lvl 12 to match her damage, as of Mozu lvl 10 Niles cannot match her damage without promotion (at earliest lvl 16).

As of lvl 10 Mozu will always be better in Attack Stance.

That is chapter 10 alone. In every subsequent chapter the gap between Mozu/Niles STR will continue to grow, her SPD will creep ever closer to his, one of the fastest units in the game, and that is meant relative both to player and enemy units. In chapter 11 regular enemies will have 9/10/13/14/17/21 spd. In chapter 12 regular enemies will have 9/13/17/18/21 spd. In chapter 13 regular enemies will have 6/10/11/14/16 spd. In chapter 14 regular enemies will have 11/12/17/18/19/20. In every case in which Mozu can be brought to double an enemy, with a mere spd tonic, and the above listing ought to provide a small glimpse of possibilities, she will outdamage Niles, near irrespective of pampering Niles´ damage. Bringing Mozus speed up to Niles speed is easier, requires less playing around that specific unit and yields better damage, than bringing Niles damage up to Mozus.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Imuabicus

[Shadow Mir]

-Vow of Friendship is overrated. Knowing that Corrin is going to be one of my best units, odds are I'm better off having them healthy and in the vanguard than having them missing most of their health just to boost Silas.

-Speaking of Corrin, Jakob isn't so much better than Felicia as to make female Corrin significantly better than male Corrin. Likewise, female Byleth's advantages aren't so amazing as to make it worth putting up with the fact that she looks godawful.

[DoomRPG]

39 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

 

-Speaking of Corrin, Jakob isn't so much better than Felicia as to make female Corrin significantly better than male Corrin. Likewise, female Byleth's advantages aren't so amazing as to make it worth putting up with the fact that she looks godawful.

Word of advice. Please. Please put F!Byleth into something else than her default uniform as soon as possible.
I personally think the Enlightened One Outfit and the Officer Uniform (if you have DLC) work great. As well as many generic class uniforms. (Namely Dancer but that looks amazing on everyone sooooooo)

Please. The default outfit is literally a case study in how to screw up in gendering an outfit. F!Byleth does not look like Byleth but chick. She looks like a cosplayer who challenged themselves to look as stupid as possible. Then proceeded to fail so hard they wrapped around and succeeded.

People have told me that F!Byleth looks good and I cannot comprehend it in reference to her basic uniform. She does not and as far as I'm concerned its near objective fact. I don't understand what people see in it.

Edit 2. Also to be precise more of a Word of Advice for everyone. I just got "Ahem" triggered by the thought of F!Byleth's fashion sense. Actually aneurysm inducing to me.

Edited January 8, 2022 by DoomRPG
Forgot to delete the first part of quote because I'm blind.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, DoomRPG said:

People have told me that F!Byleth looks good and I cannot comprehend it in reference to her basic uniform. She does not and as far as I'm concerned its near objective fact. I don't understand what people see in it.

You don't have to understand what people see in it. You just have to understand that other people see things differently than you do.

[DoomRPG]

9 minutes ago, Florete said:

You don't have to understand what people see in it. You just have to understand that other people see things differently than you do.

Absolutely.

I wish I could but its something that happens for me.

To be honest in hindsight I disagree with my own exact wording, its far more aggressive than my intention actually was. It was a creation due to a lapse in etiquette.

And given I'm already at two with this thread. I'm gonna unfollow before a third happens. My apologies.

[Shadow Mir]

On 1/4/2022 at 12:35 PM, DoomRPG said:

Is there even a good hybrid unit in the entire series yet?

There's Robin. Though while that sounds great, the issue is that Robin can do pretty much anything well, hence why Corrin and Byleth are a lot more controlled in comparison.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Shadow Mir

[AnonymousSpeed]

Dorcas is good.

[The PaperCrafter]

Knights/Generals are actually good classes. People just think they're bad because:

1. They're too used to using horse classes and get upset when a unit doesn't have 7+ movement.

2. They're too stupid to use them properly. You're supposed to use them to bait out enemies who would normally kill your other units in 1-3 hits.

I will concede that the armors in the Kaga FEs are irredeemably bad, though.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, The PaperCrafter said:

Knights/Generals are actually good classes. People just think they're bad because:

1. They're too used to using horse classes and get upset when a unit doesn't have 7+ movement.

2. They're too stupid to use them properly. You're supposed to use them to bait out enemies who would normally kill your other units in 1-3 hits.

I will concede that the armors in the Kaga FEs are irredeemably bad, though.

Lorenz in Shadow Dragon and Old Mystery Book 1 is pretty great. He arrives with 1 defense point away from the cap, meaning he's almost untouchable from the start and can literally solo the following two maps. He also starts with the weapon rank to wield Gradivus and still has access to the Star Sphere to not burn through it. Course those are probably the two easiest games in the series, so it's not that meaningful that he's that good, but it's still a good Kaga era armoured unit.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Jotari

[The PaperCrafter]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Lorenz in Shadow Dragon and Old Mystery Book 1 is pretty great. He arrives with 1 defense point away from the cap, meaning he's almost untouchable from the start and can literally solo the following two maps. Course those are probably the two easiest games in the series, so it's not that meaningful that he's that good, but it's still a good Kaga era armoured unit.

Glad I was wrong about that. I forgot about him.

[GlitchWarrior]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

He also starts with the weapon rank to wield Gradivus and still has access to the Star Sphere to not burn through it.

Slight issue with this: Generals in FE1 are sword-locked. I will concede on FE3 for this one though.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Slight issue with this: Generals in FE1 are sword-locked. I will concede on FE3 for this one though.

Yes, in FE3. You're right that generals are (bizarrely) sword locked in the first game. Though he is still useful as a swordy in the original game.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

On 2/9/2022 at 5:08 AM, The PaperCrafter said:

I will concede that the armors in the Kaga FEs are irredeemably bad, though.

Binding Blade armors have it almost as bad, if not worse. Sure, they're better off there than in Holy War (the worst game for armored units - and for that matter, infantry units in general - by far), but that's saying very little, and Binding Blade is still a low point for armored units, largely because the maps in said game are big (not nearly as big as Holy War maps, but still enough that it's a problem for them, especially when two of them are hard to impossible to rescue). It doesn't help that they're stuck with lances and axes (once they promote) in a game where accuracy is a concern.

Anyways...

-Cavalry classes in Three Houses are not that great, EXCEPT Bow Knight, Valkyrie, and maybe Paladin.

-Related to the above, Dark Knight is NOT worth it unless you're male.

-Gaiden's (and by extension, Shadows of Valentia's) map design isn't that bad.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Shadow Mir

[JoeShmoe102]

Revelation is the best Fates game.

[Paper Jam]

Edelgard is pretty much the same thing to Fodlan that Ashnard was to Tellius.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Paper Jam

[Sasori]

There are a lot of complaints about axes in fe6 and I certainly get why, but I also don't really dislike the idea of axes having some accuracy issue's. Because in some games their drawbacks are barely present, while their advantages make them the best weapon type by far. This was especially noticeable in Path of Radiance where axes where just almost always the best choice.

But at their best axes have good 1-2 range with hand axes, Steel weapon access at E rank, Higher MT and not having to deal with weapon weight past early game or at all. So in the games where their accuracy drop is barely noticeable they become by far the best weapon type.

 

[Jotari]

Small one here, but it kind of irks me that they called the Rewind mechanics Divine Pulse in Three Houses. We'd all gotten accustomed to referring to the mechanic as the Turnwheel after Shadows of Valentia, and then suddenly it has a different name and it's like, what do we even call it when talking about it in future games? I guess forcing an actual Turnwheel into the plot of every game would be kind of repetitive (not that it should have even been in the plot of Three Houses to begin with), so maybe Divine Pulse is a better name, as it's more vague and all settings will probably some sort of divine entity it can be attributed to, but still, some actual unity of mechanics would be nice. Also renaming Skill to Accuracy just limits what it can do.

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Small one here, but it kind of irks me that they called the Rewind mechanics Divine Pulse in Three Houses. We'd all gotten accustomed to referring to the mechanic as the Turnwheel after Shadows of Valentia, and then suddenly it has a different name and it's like, what do we even call it when talking about it in future games? I guess forcing an actual Turnwheel into the plot of every game would be kind of repetitive (not that it should have even been in the plot of Three Houses to begin with), so maybe Divine Pulse is a better name, as it's more vague and all settings will probably some sort of divine entity it can be attributed to, but still, some actual unity of mechanics would be nice. Also renaming Skill to Accuracy just limits what it can do.

Call it Replay.

Honestly, just calling it the rewind mechanic works. The name is the description.

[Use the Falchion]

I think future FE games that have Avatars should have both genders available to play at the same time, even if it's just a NG+ feature. (Or rather two Avatars, so that same-sex Avatar couples can be offered as well.) They can go even farther and have players define the relationship between the two. For example, the default can be the two Avatars being twins, which is a pretty common head-canon from what I can tell. But players can switch it up and have them be Parent and Child, a married couple, or even just two strangers where one gets all of the "bonuses" and the other is an average unit at best, or however players want to allocate things. 

I imagine that it would work like TTRPGs, where you have a set amount of starting points to allocate to a character, but this time the points and "role" of the Avatar can be split up. For example, if in Three Houses we had two Byleth's, one would be the blue-haired, stoic sibling while the other could be a blonde haired normal sibling. Or players could choose for them both to have blue hair or whatnot. Maybe a different example would be like the Inquisitor in Dragon Age: Inquisition? In that game, the role is the same but the sex, species, and specialization of the Inquisitor is up to the player. I'd be a little like that. Age would factor into starting stats and growth rates. The older the Avatar the higher the starting stats and better skills, but they have a lower growth rate than the younger Avatar. 

This would mean a decreased sense of plot relevance, but I don't think too many people here would complain about that. 

I think this could be a fun way to add an interesting dynamic into the Avatar while still keeping the journey individual, as well as letting players fit their dream crossover character (within limits) into a new FE game. 

[NaotoUzumaki]

I would empty my wallet twice just for this. This is what they needed, an Avatar that isn’t a generic Atlus MC. Nothing against SMT or Personsa but FE is it’s own thing and the more they rip off things while losing their identity the worse it gets. As for that avatar idea until Nintendo learns to fo in between without going one extreme of an idea it gonna take a while 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Spoiler

On 2/9/2022 at 6:08 AM, The PaperCrafter said:

Knights/Generals are actually good classes. People just think they're bad because:

1. They're too used to using horse classes and get upset when a unit doesn't have 7+ movement.

2. They're too stupid to use them properly. You're supposed to use them to bait out enemies who would normally kill your other units in 1-3 hits.

I will concede that the armors in the Kaga FEs are irredeemably bad, though.

On 2/10/2022 at 7:40 PM, JoeShmoe102 said:

Revelation is the best Fates game.

On 2/15/2022 at 1:38 AM, Paper Jam said:

Edelgard is pretty much the same thing to Fodlan that Ashnard was to Tellius.

 

Finally, some good takes.

On 2/18/2022 at 8:31 PM, Sunwoo said:

Call it Replay.

Call it "limited save states".

[Acacia Sgt]

Watch them incorporate Save Files into the story too...

All that should just be kept separate from the story, I'd say. Specially for something like Rewind.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Watch them incorporate Save Files into the story too...

All that should just be kept separate from the story, I'd say. Specially for something like Rewind.

And that's why Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light has been the best Fire Emblem story released in the past five years XD

[joevar]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:15 AM, Use the Falchion said:

I imagine that it would work like TTRPGs, where you have a set amount of starting points to allocate to a character, but this time the points and "role" of the Avatar can be split up. For example, if in Three Houses we had two Byleth's, one would be the blue-haired, stoic sibling while the other could be a blonde haired normal sibling. Or players could choose for them both to have blue hair or whatnot. Maybe a different example would be like the Inquisitor in Dragon Age: Inquisition? In that game, the role is the same but the sex, species, and specialization of the Inquisitor is up to the player. I'd be a little like that. Age would factor into starting stats and growth rates. The older the Avatar the higher the starting stats and better skills, but they have a lower growth rate than the younger Avatar. 

This would mean a decreased sense of plot relevance, but I don't think too many people here would complain about that.

thats where developer (or maybe us, players) draw the line between a JRPG and Western and/or ClassicRPG. what you describe is what i've been seeing in all CRPG. and what we see in 3H avatar is what i usually see in JRPG. while dragon age roots are DnD tabletop as you know it. both are nothing new at all.

the approach are just different afaik. opposite even, imo. its like between giving priorites on building a story first, or creating a compelling character first.

if 3H was created like DA:I , surely byleth would be fully voiced despite being avatar, however unfitting it is.

23 hours ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

I would empty my wallet twice just for this. This is what they needed, an Avatar that isn’t a generic Atlus MC. Nothing against SMT or Personsa but FE is it’s own thing and the more they rip off things while losing their identity the worse it gets. As for that avatar idea until Nintendo learns to fo in between without going one extreme of an idea it gonna take a while 

doubt it. but will be pleasantly surprised if they change their approach in that matter.

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

And that's why Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light has been the best Fire Emblem story released in the past five years XD

simple is best, is that it?

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 2/9/2022 at 3:08 AM, The PaperCrafter said:

Knights/Generals are actually good classes. People just think they're bad because:

1. They're too used to using horse classes and get upset when a unit doesn't have 7+ movement.

2. They're too stupid to use them properly. You're supposed to use them to bait out enemies who would normally kill your other units in 1-3 hits.

I will concede that the armors in the Kaga FEs are irredeemably bad, though.

Calling people "too stupid" is a bit much.

Having more move is obviously good. A class with low move is not irredeemably bad, but if had better have a lot to make for it. In most FE games, armours kinda don't. They usually have bad speed on top of their bad move, speed being one of the most important stats. Additionally, with respect to your second point, that only holds weight if armours are extremely durable and your other units do indeed die in 1-3 hits... but in many Fire Emblem games, that's not the case; durable cavaliers, wyverrns, and infantry characters can often take almost as many hits as a typical armour... and then there are dodgetanks in certain games. In addition to the Kaga games, armours are pretty bad in all of FE6-9 aside from Oswin, who is good because he has monstrous stats for Chapter 12, not because he's an armour (as evidenced by the fact that the other armour in the game is absolutely terrible).

On 2/15/2022 at 9:02 AM, Sasori said:

There are a lot of complaints about axes in fe6 and I certainly get why, but I also don't really dislike the idea of axes having some accuracy issue's. Because in some games their drawbacks are barely present, while their advantages make them the best weapon type by far. This was especially noticeable in Path of Radiance where axes where just almost always the best choice.

But at their best axes have good 1-2 range with hand axes, Steel weapon access at E rank, Higher MT and not having to deal with weapon weight past early game or at all. So in the games where their accuracy drop is barely noticeable they become by far the best weapon type.

I think there are some good points here. That said, there are other ways besides accuracy to balance axes: namely, their weight. In FE4, 7, 8, and Three Houses, axes are heavier than other weapons, and in all of those games, there's at least a decent argument they're not the best weapon type as a result. Awakening/Fates also manage to rein them in without giving them terrible accuracy or giving them weight, mostly by giving other weapons some neat options axes lack, and reining in the power of the Hand Axe a lot. It's definitely when none of these are an issue that axes tend to be a runaway winner, which mostly happens in Tellius that I can recall (disclaimer: have not played FE5), because at that point, yeah power is the only major differentiator between weapon types.