Jump to content
BlackSymphony

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm not a fan of map animations, but that's only because in most of the games that had them, there was no way to turn them off, and some of them got unbearably slow considering that if I'm choosing this option, I'm doing so because I want faster gameplay. As long as they can be turned off, I think it'd be cool to have them there for those who like 'em. Radiant Dawn (after one playthrough) had the best solution of having detailed / map / off as options.

Huh? What do you mean? Which game with map animations make them impossible to turn off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Huh? What do you mean? Which game with map animations make them impossible to turn off?

Genealogy of the Holy War and Path of Radiance, for two. The first playthrough of Radiant Dawn on a given memory card as well. In all these games, there's no way to turn off animations completely - you can watch the ones with the little battle cutscene, or you can watch animations on the map, but you can't reduce things to the super-fast "characters bump into each other and damage numbers appear" which is seen in GBA or Radiant Dawn with animations off entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Genealogy of the Holy War and Path of Radiance, for two. The first playthrough of Radiant Dawn on a given memory card as well. In all these games, there's no way to turn off animations completely - you can watch the ones with the little battle cutscene, or you can watch animations on the map, but you can't reduce things to the super-fast "characters bump into each other and damage numbers appear" which is seen in GBA or Radiant Dawn with animations off entirely.

True, there's no skip enemy phase like in the DS games as well.

Still  I love the map animations, especially when they're animated sprites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Genealogy of the Holy War and Path of Radiance, for two. The first playthrough of Radiant Dawn on a given memory card as well. In all these games, there's no way to turn off animations completely - you can watch the ones with the little battle cutscene, or you can watch animations on the map, but you can't reduce things to the super-fast "characters bump into each other and damage numbers appear" which is seen in GBA or Radiant Dawn with animations off entirely.

That seems less an issue with map animations and more an issue with the animations in general. There's at least no game that forces you to watch map animations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That seems less an issue with map animations and more an issue with the animations in general. There's at least no game that forces you to watch map animations.

Well, I come at it from the point of view who started with GBA, and then moved onto PoR. In GBA, I could turn off the detailed animations, allowing me to greatly increase the battle speed, which was nice for replays in particular. In PoR, that option was gone; instead, I could replace detailed animations with map animations, which still took too long for my tastes.

So yes, of course, I shouldn't blame map animations for the lack of "animations off" option, but since that's how it was introduced to me, there's a negative association there. Of course, RD proved we can have all three.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Jotari said:

How can investment not be worth it when the investment is free?

How it is free? Unless you mean he's a free deploy until chapter 7, but even then I tend to cut him from the team before then because he doesn't pay off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

How it is free? Unless you mean he's a free deploy until chapter 7, but even then I tend to cut him from the team before then because he doesn't pay off.

It's free by not costing anything (well, anything of real value).

Edited by Jotari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It actually is. Edward being fielded brings no real worth to the map past 1-5 (assuming HM, since in NM almost everyone is viable), actually detracts from the growth of other units and is so squishy that he on average gets near 2HKO range.

SPreading EXP too thin in the DB is one of the biggest mishaps in RD. 
Edward being level 12 is also laughable. Try level 7, 8 max.  With maximum favouritism and every boss kill maybe you could squeak to level 11.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even assuming all of that- he doesn't take a deployment slot until that point. Plus, even Radiant Dawn isn't so experience-starved that he can't even chip enemies. I see no reason to bench him. Even if you don't plan on using him full-time, at the very least him DYING isn't going to give you a game over, so if you really seem to hate him that much, you can always use him as a very thin meatshield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Even assuming all of that- he doesn't take a deployment slot until that point. Plus, even Radiant Dawn isn't so experience-starved that he can't even chip enemies. I see no reason to bench him. Even if you don't plan on using him full-time, at the very least him DYING isn't going to give you a game over, so if you really seem to hate him that much, you can always use him as a very thin meatshield.

Bold: Uh, yeah, as to that, it does in the first few chapters... ANYONE dying is a defeat condition in the first few chapters.

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Uh, yeah, as to that, it does in the first few chapters... ANYONE dying is a defeat condition in the first few chapters.

Please identify the chapters in which Edward isn't a forced-deploy, but him dying causes a Game Over. Literally, any chapter in which choosing to deploy Edward can cause a Game Over.

12 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

Edward being level 12 is also laughable. Try level 7, 8 max.  With maximum favouritism and every boss kill maybe you could squeak to level 11.

If Edward getting an average of 2 kills and 4 chip combats per chapter is too much to expect, then... sure, okay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of FE Fates. I think it’s the worst modern FE. It has Phoenix mode which makes you immune to consequences of bad play. I hate the rewind or turn wheel as much as Phoenix but they are limited at Leats and even then I use limited loosely. Corrin regardless of being kidnapped and sheltered shouldn’t be this mentality inept. You got your memory seals and the norh siblings knew of it and you don’t freak out. I especially hated that Norh are portrayed as the absolute evil. It make some people I be met irl think that Japan stoke its ego in a sjw development of the game. It doesn’t help that Norh has many soldiers like Zola who make them look worse. Faron is the progenitor of the Agarthan problem since his own kids are like Wtf at his change into evil before the story began. By precursor I mean that at the very in 3Houses it’s implied that argarthan wears the skin of who they are impersonating so nobody can suspect but Garon is literally a corpse puddle controlled like a puppet. It should smell like ass when he is around. We never  even heard what happened to make him that other then Anankos being angry at not being worshiped anymore. It is so skewed in Norh being the bad guy that it never acknowledged Hoshido evil deed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Please identify the chapters in which Edward isn't a forced-deploy, but him dying causes a Game Over. Literally, any chapter in which choosing to deploy Edward can cause a Game Over.

Dude, you're completely missing the point. If Edward is to have any future prospects, he needs to actually get stuff done in the first 4 chapters, which is risky when he's so squishy and you cannot afford to lose anyone (and by the way, those are the majority of Edward's playtime before Zihark is relevant).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

It should smell like ass when he is around.

"Xander, doesn't Father smell a lot like ass?"
"Well Leo, you know what they say. You are what you eat."

38 minutes ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

I especially hated that Norh are portrayed as the absolute evil. It make some people I be met irl think that Japan stoke its ego

I mean yeah, probably. The writing is what Garon eats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Dude, you're completely missing the point. If Edward is to have any future prospects, he needs to actually get stuff done in the first 4 chapters, which is risky when he's so squishy and you cannot afford to lose anyone (and by the way, those are the majority of Edward's playtime before Zihark is relevant).

Yes, but ANY units dying causes a Game Over in those chapters. Edward is still one of your bulkiest units in those chapters. He's ahead of Micaiah, Leonardo, Laura, and Ilyana on that front. So unless your plan is to make said chapters the "Sothe and Nolan show", you'll need to use Edward to some extent. And Sothe is functionally gaining single-digit experience in chapters 2 and 3 (outside of using the Steal command for free EXP), so while you should use him, overusing him there is a poor investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another point: You do not need to exclusively focus on units who are just better than others. People have used Edward and will continue to use Edward because they find him fun to use. Yes, he's objectively the worst swordmaster, I'm not trying to dissuade you on that, but there is NEVER a reason to NOT deploy him in Ch4-Ch6. His existence doesn't sap EXP from your other units in the first place, and as stated above, if you intend to play while completely ignoring him the first half of act 1 just becomes the "Sothe and Nolan Show".

I will admit I don't play RD Hard so maybe I just have no clue what I'm talking about, but if you're going to bench Edward on Ch4 then benching Leonardo, Meg, Ilyana, Aran, and maybe even Laura is also on the table because the Dawn Brigade just has very few units who are "relevant" in the lategame- but this game has such a large cast that who's going to care what the Dawn Brigade units have to do in the lategame? These are their only maps where fielding them is mandatory, if not at least recommended. From Ch4 onward you lose the "must protect everyone" requirement so why NOT bring bait? and if so, why not bring bait that can maybe chip a few enemies while it's dying? IK RD Hard is just stupid tough making him basically unusable long-term, but he doesn't have to be used long-term- that's the beauty of it, deploying him in Ch4-6 costs NOTHING and loses you NO EXP if he can't kill anything, and then once you get the opportunity to drop him you can, because that's what options are. Just because Nolan, Jill, Sothe, Volug, and Zihark are more useful units long-term doesn't mean that using other units in the short-term is going to affect you that much outside of Prologue to Ch3 (where using him IS a danger but he's still better than most of the other units you have at that time)

also worth noting: you're encouraging lowmanning one of the series' hardest games here, or at least the early stages of it.

Edited by GlitchWarrior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2022 at 9:02 PM, GlitchWarrior said:

I will admit I don't play RD Hard so maybe I just have no clue what I'm talking about, but if you're going to bench Edward on Ch4 then benching Leonardo, Meg, Ilyana, Aran, and maybe even Laura is also on the table because the Dawn Brigade just has very few units who are "relevant" in the lategame- but this game has such a large cast that who's going to care what the Dawn Brigade units have to do in the lategame?

Sure, benching those characters is on the table as well. I prefer most of them to Edward myself (not Ilyana, just because she leaves before some of the hardest maps) but I think it's reasonable that you keep the ones you like out of 'em while benching the others. In fact that's what I'd generally advise: trying to use all of them is objectively more challenging than benching some of them.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 9:02 PM, GlitchWarrior said:

(where using him IS a danger but he's still better than most of the other units you have at that time)

I'd say he's worse than everyone except Leonardo in those maps myself. (Ilyana may be worse long-term but I'd rate her higher for 1-3, her bases are reasonably competent.)

 

On 3/17/2022 at 9:02 PM, GlitchWarrior said:

also worth noting: you're encouraging lowmanning one of the series' hardest games here, or at least the early stages of it.

Yes, because it makes the game notably easier. Radiant Dawn's exp formula combined with the Dawn Brigade maps' tendency towards chokepointing makes low-manning arguably the most beneficial it ever is in the series, and it's very often a powerful strategy in Fire Emblem (moreso than I'd like, because I find lowmanning not fun... a small number of juggernauts is an effective way to play Fire Emblem, but it's also very boring and less tactical).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Sure, benching those characters is on the table as well. I prefer most of them to Edward myself (not Ilyana, just because she leaves before some of the hardest maps) but I think it's reasonable that you keep the ones you like out of 'em while benching the others. In fact that's what I'd generally advise: trying to use all of them is objectively more challenging than benching some of them.

 

I'd say he's worse than everyone except Leonardo in those maps myself. (Ilyana may be worse long-term but I'd rate her higher for 1-3, her bases are reasonably competent.)

 

Yes, because it makes the game notably easier. Radiant Dawn's exp formula combined with the Dawn Brigade maps' tendency towards chokepointing makes low-manning arguably the most beneficial it ever is in the series, and it's very often a powerful strategy in Fire Emblem (moreso than I'd like, because I find lowmanning not fun... a small number of juggernauts is an effective way to play Fire Emblem, but it's also very boring and less tactical).

Low manning is pretty much always the best strategy in Fire Emblem. Doesn't mean it should be considered the one people should do. Should I consider Hardin and Nabarl terrible units just because soloing the game with Shiida and a pair of warp users is the most effective strategy? Use Edward if one wants, or don't use him, but wether you use him or not the merits which he has still exist and do provide solid reasoning as to why other people do use him. He is definitely not the best unit the Dawn Brigade has, but he's also not the worst. He's solid middle tier with Leo and Ilyana. No one would say it's a mistake to bench him, but likewise, actually using him is far from a mistake too. He can contribute and does not need much favouritism to do so, unlike Meg and Fiona.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yes, because it makes the game notably easier. Radiant Dawn's exp formula combined with the Dawn Brigade maps' tendency towards chokepointing makes low-manning arguably the most beneficial it ever is in the series, and it's very often a powerful strategy in Fire Emblem (moreso than I'd like, because I find lowmanning not fun... a small number of juggernauts is an effective way to play Fire Emblem, but it's also very boring and less tactical).

Doesn't lowmanning mean that select units become more vulnerable? Like, in III-6: if I don't have at least two decent units on the northern and eastern fronts, then units like Laura, Leonardo, and Micaiah (Game Over condition) are more likely to be in range of a beast laguz who can tear them to shreds. Same with III-13, where outside of going for an early bosskill, you need at least two good defensive units on the west and east stairways each. Otherwise, beast or Hawks can pass without issue and pierce the Game Over perimeter, with only yellow units to stop them.

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'd say he's worse than everyone except Leonardo in those maps myself. (Ilyana may be worse long-term but I'd rate her higher for 1-3, her bases are reasonably competent.)

It's a minor point, but I'd say Edward is your best unit in the Prologue at least, as the only one who can take two hits. Your other two have uses in ranged chips, with Micaiah also offering Sacrifice, but IMO doing the chapter "Edward-less" would be worse than doing it "Micaiah-less".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's a minor point, but I'd say Edward is your best unit in the Prologue at least, as the only one who can take two hits. Your other two have uses in ranged chips, with Micaiah also offering Sacrifice, but IMO doing the chapter "Edward-less" would be worse than doing it "Micaiah-less".

I'd also add to this that it's not like Micaiah particularly needs the exp either. If you're actually using her  then chances are she will hit level 20 before the end of Part 1 which means, due to her plot based promotion, she will be stuck there. She also has sacrifice as basically free exp. So you can comfortably solo the chapter with Edward (and Leo) without any long term disadvantageous to Micaiah, as they aren't stealing exp from her due to her exp cap being set at a certain ammount in part 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Doesn't lowmanning mean that select units become more vulnerable? Like, in III-6: if I don't have at least two decent units on the northern and eastern fronts, then units like Laura, Leonardo, and Micaiah (Game Over condition) are more likely to be in range of a beast laguz who can tear them to shreds. Same with III-13, where outside of going for an early bosskill, you need at least two good defensive units on the west and east stairways each

Well, I'm not suggesting lowmanning to that extent. If you look at the units suggested for benching that I was responding to, note that it does not include Sothe, Zihark, Nolan, Jill, or Volug. So that's five frontliners, plus Tauroneo for 3-13. I would broadly agree with not benching any of them, unless one has very specific plans. I also think it's quite reasonable to use more; my argument is that it's sub-optimal to use everyone.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's a minor point, but I'd say Edward is your best unit in the Prologue at least, as the only one who can take two hits. Your other two have uses in ranged chips, with Micaiah also offering Sacrifice, but IMO doing the chapter "Edward-less" would be worse than doing it "Micaiah-less".

For the first, well, I've soloed that chapter with Micaiah and that wasn't actually hard at all. The enemies are unaggressive and vulneraries are full heals at that point, so even if she's 2HKOed she can just tank one and counter, then heal when she has time. This isn't necessarily to claim that Micaiah is better in this map, just that the distinction is largely meaningless. As soon as you hit 1-1, though, Nolan + Micaiah feels like easily a better duo than Nolan + Edward, at least to me; he can tank well while she does accurate, powerful damage that avoids most counters.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I'd also add to this that it's not like Micaiah particularly needs the exp either. If you're actually using her  then chances are she will hit level 20 before the end of Part 1 which means, due to her plot based promotion, she will be stuck there. She also has sacrifice as basically free exp. So you can comfortably solo the chapter with Edward (and Leo) without any long term disadvantageous to Micaiah, as they aren't stealing exp from her due to her exp cap being set at a certain ammount in part 1.

I find Micaiah definitely wants to gain exp early, one because she wants to one-shot various bosses with Thani (1-3 being the first good example), and two because she wants to gain enough durability to not be one-shotted herself (there are various ways to do this that don't involve as much exp, but eh). The Dawn Brigade maps are significantly easier when you're not worried about your loss condition not being one-rounded, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never played Ike’s games and looking up it was to expensive online. Speaking of which I really hate modern FE maps since they don’t blend well with the gameplay cough turn wheel cough. I remember playing FE 7 with Lyn after I played 3Houses, Fates , and Awakening and Liking the Dorkas choke map where you have to prevent enemies from swarming you to death. God I wish I could get caught off guard more in this. Turn wheel just make me go euh I’ll make a unit block a door and now I have lost the ability to face my mistakes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

Never played Ike’s games and looking up it was to expensive online. Speaking of which I really hate modern FE maps since they don’t blend well with the gameplay cough turn wheel cough. I remember playing FE 7 with Lyn after I played 3Houses, Fates , and Awakening and Liking the Dorkas choke map where you have to prevent enemies from swarming you to death. God I wish I could get caught off guard more in this. Turn wheel just make me go euh I’ll make a unit block a door and now I have lost the ability to face my mistakes. 

Chapter 4 of FE7 is so underrated. I find that it's the first map FE7 has that's actually dangerous, and on my first playthrough, I actually ended up losing Kent there- ever since it's a map I'm alert for on every playthrough. I know it's pretty easy, but I consider it a bit of a wakeup call to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same I was like. OMG i get to think…. In a strategy Rpg. HELL YES!!!!! Now I wished the tellius games weren’t so god damn expensive. like the turn wheel makes me  go meh… but that chapter 4 in FE7 made me go like for 5 seconds: IF SHIT  WHAT DO I DO NOW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...