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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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36 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

Exactly my thoughts, his backstory felt too involved with too many different things.

With that said, Constance is my least favourite Ashen Wolf overall. Not only do I not find her personality endearing, her split personality feels like a gimmick that exists just to make you feel bad for her. 

Same. I just didn't resonate with a character whose split personalities are just Diet L'Arachel and I Can't Believe It's Not Noire.

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5 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Exactly my thoughts, his backstory felt too involved with too many different things.

With that said, Constance is my least favourite Ashen Wolf overall. Not only do I not find her personality endearing, her split personality feels like a gimmick that exists just to make you feel bad for her. 

I don't think the intention is for you to feel bad for her. I think her overly morose statements are genuinely meant to be funny...and they're just not.

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They play funny footsteps over Constance's other side before, it's not meant to be serious and make you feel bad for her. Similar to how they make Bernadetta's anxious freakouts a complete and utter joke.

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I am glad that TH has gutted the value of physical 1-2 range weapons.

Archers being (1-)2- 3 range or more and mages being low move jokes that are easily collapsed on, the games might finally be ready to move beyond myriads of shoddy 1-2 range javelin/handaxe throwers in order to feign "difficulty."

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9 hours ago, jumpuff said:

FE8 isn't as easy as people make it out to be, especially if you choose not to do any skirmishes or abuse the tower.

I reckon that's true if you're doing Ephraim route and playing the game like a conventional Fire Emblem player. ie, resetting when everyone dies, not using prepromotes, trying to train a full team. But if you play it like an ltc or efficiency player (so, basically if you use Seth without fear of exp stealing) then, yeah, it's pretty easy. Not as easy as Path of Radiance though, but easier than Hector Hard mode or Binding Blade Hard Mode, Radiant Dawn Hard Mode. Probably on par with Genealogy of the Holy War and harder than the first three titles. 

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I guess my related, unpopular opinion is that I don't think Ephraim's route is significantly different on challenge than Eirika's.

That said, I agree with Jotari about the relative placement of FE8 challenge-wise. Harder than Path of Radiance, comparable to Genealogy (FE4's a weird one to handicap). Probably harder than Shadows of Valentia as well (depends a bit on how you feel about the turnwheel). Easier than most of the remaining games on their hardest difficulties (certainly including FE6, 7, and 10 onwards, minus SoV). I haven't played the original versions of the first three games, so no comment there.

That's assuming we're talking about the games on their hardest difficulties. If we talk about easiest difficulties, then I'd think FE8 is actually harder than, at minimum, all of FE12 onwards as well, due to Casual Mode being more forgiving than Classic. Probably Shadow Dragon as well. Though conversely, now it's clearly easier than FE4.

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I've actually felt for a while that Sacred Stones isn't as easy as a lot of people make it out to be. It's still among the easier titles, but I think what happens is that it's not a common first entry for people, so by the time you play it you've probably already played at least one other title and know better what to expect. On hard mode Phantom Ship and Rausten Court are legit tough maps, and plenty of others can catch you off guard if you're not ready.

I did an iron man draft of Sacred Stones about a year ago and nearly lost it on Rausten Court (Eirika route, so no Phantom Ship). I knew how to be prepared for everything else, but that map is a doozy.

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I'm not sure what the consensus in on Devil weapons, but... imho, they're only useful in Three Houses. The backfire chance in other games is just not worth risking. Special mention to the DS games, where the backfire uses the user's defense for damage instead of the damage the target would've taken - something that is very troublesome considering the high attack and low defense of axe classes. 

 

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14 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not sure what the consensus in on Devil weapons, but... imho, they're only useful in Three Houses. The backfire chance in other games is just not worth risking. Special mention to the DS games, where the backfire uses the user's defense for damage instead of the damage the target would've taken - something that is very troublesome considering the high attack and low defense of axe classes. 

 

It depends on the game. In some games you can get your luck high enough to outright eliminate the backfire effect. And if you're playing an Iron Man it can be useful to throw onto a weak untrained unit if you've deployment spots to spare. I agree that it's generally too risky to be worth a weapon slot though. It'd be much nicer if the game actually displayed the current backfire rate so players have an idea of how risky it is. I think most people's experience with Devil Weapons involves getting it in one of their first Fire Emblem games played, trying it out right away with a low luck early game unit, immediately having a character kill themself and then tossing it into the convoy in that and every subsequent game they appear. Just letting the player know the odds, risky as they might be, would significantly help its use. And, somewhat ironically given Three Houses changed the mechanic (and there were no axe users in Shadows of Valentia), the Turnwheel/Divine Pulse system would significantly improve the weapon's use as gambling something like that has much less risk when you can just undo the bad outcome.

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On 10/31/2022 at 5:59 PM, Fabulously Olivier said:

Same. I just didn't resonate with a character whose split personalities are just Diet L'Arachel and I Can't Believe It's Not Noire.

Damn, perfect analogy.

16 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not sure what the consensus in on Devil weapons, but... imho, they're only useful in Three Houses. The backfire chance in other games is just not worth risking. Special mention to the DS games, where the backfire uses the user's defense for damage instead of the damage the target would've taken - something that is very troublesome considering the high attack and low defense of axe classes. 

I only enjoy using them in 3H, because it's the only game where they're something I can plan around. The gambler's delight of using them in the GBA or DS games just doesn't do it for me. I don't know if that makes them "not useful" there, though, so much as it just makes them "less enjoyable to use".

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

(and there were no axe users in Shadows of Valentia),

This is blatant Brigand Boss erasure.

On 11/6/2022 at 3:26 PM, Florete said:

I did an iron man draft of Sacred Stones about a year ago and nearly lost it on Rausten Court (Eirika route, so no Phantom Ship). I knew how to be prepared for everything else, but that map is a doozy.

Rausten Knights "stand up to a stiff breeze" challenge.

Impossible! 100% of Green Units fail!

Anyway, do I have to drop anything into the "Unpopular Opinions" jar? I forget if I've put any down before. Let's go with... "Revelation is my favorite of the three Fates routes to replay." Yes, that is sure to mildly irritate Conquest acolytes.

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42 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Anyway, do I have to drop anything into the "Unpopular Opinions" jar? I forget if I've put any down before. Let's go with... "Revelation is my favorite of the three Fates routes to replay." Yes, that is sure to mildly irritate Conquest acolytes.

Anyone with me on Heirs of Fates is the best route XD At least for plot. Fuck some of those evade and crit rates the enemies have.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

It depends on the game. In some games you can get your luck high enough to outright eliminate the backfire effect. And if you're playing an Iron Man it can be useful to throw onto a weak untrained unit if you've deployment spots to spare. I agree that it's generally too risky to be worth a weapon slot though. It'd be much nicer if the game actually displayed the current backfire rate so players have an idea of how risky it is. I think most people's experience with Devil Weapons involves getting it in one of their first Fire Emblem games played, trying it out right away with a low luck early game unit, immediately having a character kill themself and then tossing it into the convoy in that and every subsequent game they appear. Just letting the player know the odds, risky as they might be, would significantly help its use. And, somewhat ironically given Three Houses changed the mechanic (and there were no axe users in Shadows of Valentia), the Turnwheel/Divine Pulse system would significantly improve the weapon's use as gambling something like that has much less risk when you can just undo the bad outcome.

How many units can get high luck and can use axes (or swords, in the context of the Archanea games, which were the only games that had the Devil Sword, once again excepting Three Houses)? Off the top of my head, not very many. I would also mention the GBA games, where the Devil Axe also had bad hit and high weight in addition to the backfire chance (granted, most axe users in the GBA games had high constitution to limit the damage that its weight would do to their AS, but on the other hand, most of them are not fast, accurate, nor do they have high luck, meaning there's a good chance they will either whiff, get doubled, or damage themselves, or even some combination of the three). I mean, I get they're supposed to be high risk, high reward weapons, but that fails to materialize in actual practice when the good outcome barely benefits me, whereas the bad one pretty much translates to an automatic loss, especially in an iron man run (heck, I posted this largely because I was watching some Shadow Dragon iron man runs recently, and the players thought gambling on the Devil Axe was a good idea, only for it to bite them in the rear. One in particular seemed to not learn their lesson, as they lost more units to its backfire, including one instance where they used it when a normal axe would have killed).

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I only enjoy using them in 3H, because it's the only game where they're something I can plan around. The gambler's delight of using them in the GBA or DS games just doesn't do it for me. I don't know if that makes them "not useful" there, though, so much as it just makes them "less enjoyable to use".

I'd say it makes them not useful there, esp. the GBA games for reasons already mentioned. The only noteworthy thing about them in GBA (specifically Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones) is they that give a massive 8 weapon exp per swing... which isn't that useful when weapon ranks are not that big a problem there.

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16 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Phantom Ship is unironically considered pretty difficult, which, y'know, do with that what you will. Not sure if that's total or relative difficulty.

I guess my unpopular opinion is that Phantom Ship is rather easy if you aren't playing blind. Spawn block the boss and send one high res pegasi with a Javelin to cover the open seas above and the other below your ship (you can even use that Pure Water you get back in chapter 6 if you are worried about them) to trivialize the eyeballs, finally plant Seth and Dusell with 1-2 range weapons on the wide bridge, and whatever physical troop besides them you bothered to train (Ephraim or one of the cavs come to mid) on the other, add in a little support and the map is basically over.

 

On 11/6/2022 at 12:26 PM, Florete said:

 

I did an iron man draft of Sacred Stones about a year ago and nearly lost it on Rausten Court (Eirika route, so no Phantom Ship). I knew how to be prepared for everything else, but that map is a doozy.

Didn't go with the old rescue Mansel and hide out in the treasure room with a single space choke-point trick on that map?

 

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9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

How many units can get high luck and can use axes (or swords, in the context of the Archanea games, which were the only games that had the Devil Sword, once again excepting Three Houses)? Off the top of my head, not very many. I would also mention the GBA games, where the Devil Axe also had bad hit and high weight in addition to the backfire chance (granted, most axe users in the GBA games had high constitution to limit the damage that its weight would do to their AS, but on the other hand, most of them are not fast, accurate, nor do they have high luck, meaning there's a good chance they will either whiff, get doubled, or damage themselves, or even some combination of the three). I mean, I get they're supposed to be high risk, high reward weapons, but that fails to materialize in actual practice when the good outcome barely benefits me, whereas the bad one pretty much translates to an automatic loss, especially in an iron man run (heck, I posted this largely because I was watching some Shadow Dragon iron man runs recently, and the players thought gambling on the Devil Axe was a good idea, only for it to bite them in the rear. One in particular seemed to not learn their lesson, as they lost more units to its backfire, including one instance where they used it when a normal axe would have killed).

I'd say it makes them not useful there, esp. the GBA games for reasons already mentioned. The only noteworthy thing about them in GBA (specifically Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones) is they that give a massive 8 weapon exp per swing... which isn't that useful when weapon ranks are not that big a problem there.

The older games, generally speaking, where the backfire rate was 20-luck and reaching a luck stat of 20 was pretty non challenging. This is particularly true for the very first game where stat boosts are bonkers (course the first game is so easy it hardly even matters). I'd also only ever use a Devil's Axe in an iron man. As, paradoxically, losing a unit in an iron man mode is not that big a deal.

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On 11/10/2022 at 4:52 AM, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not sure what the consensus in on Devil weapons, but... imho, they're only useful in Three Houses. The backfire chance in other games is just not worth risking. Special mention to the DS games, where the backfire uses the user's defense for damage instead of the damage the target would've taken - something that is very troublesome considering the high attack and low defense of axe classes. 

 

They see niche use in the non-FE6 GBA games and the DS games, the former due to their insane WEXP yield and the latter for their insane Mt/Hit in tandem with save points. And the original Gaiden where Dread Fighters are immune to the recoil chance... aside from that, most people aren't touching them with a ten-foot pole except when they want to meme. They also tend to have poor Hit outside the DS games, making them even less reliable.

I disagree on the DS backfire point though, if anything it's a point in the player's favor since enemies tend to have lower defenses in the games where they carry these weapons. I once had the Devil Sword thief in Chapter 4 of FE12 OHKO himself attacking Arran, which is hilarious.

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17 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Didn't go with the old rescue Mansel and hide out in the treasure room with a single space choke-point trick on that map?

 

Slight tangent, but I consider Rausten Court played as it is intended to be played, i.e. not either this sort of turtling or a quick boss kill, as probably the most satisfying map in Sacred Stones. It's reasonably tough but also really makes you feel like the work you put into raising units is worth it, because you get to see your best units shine in standing up to a powerful mixed array of enemies. Nothing else in the SS lategame really creates this feeling, sadly: monsters either suck or rely on things like Shadowshot/Stone to be dangerous, which isn't very satisfying.

Anyway, as far as devil weapons go, the main use I've personally found for them is using them to raise axe rank when you know a backfire won't kill you. In FE7-8, one swing gave 8 weapon exp, if memory serves. Many units you might want to raise axe rank on (e.g. Raven, Gerik) have high HP, so if you're confident that you can afford a backfire (i.e. it's a turn with relatively few enemies in range), you can take a swing and get your axe rank up fast. This is too esoteric for me to bother with, usually, but I do think it's a niche, legitimate use.

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9 hours ago, X-Naut said:

They see niche use in the non-FE6 GBA games and the DS games, the former due to their insane WEXP yield and the latter for their insane Mt/Hit in tandem with save points. And the original Gaiden where Dread Fighters are immune to the recoil chance... aside from that, most people aren't touching them with a ten-foot pole except when they want to meme. They also tend to have poor Hit outside the DS games, making them even less reliable.

So the takeaway from this is that they're only particularly good in one game (well, one non-3H game). That's concerning. Otherwise, whatever good points they offer don't justify using them because the risk just isn't worth taking. The thing is, in my opinion, if you have very high risks attached to something, the benefits need to be good enough to make up for that. Just look at the Yu-Gi-Oh card game. Many of the cards with effects that depend on die rolls and coin tosses are avoided by most players because the good effects you get if you call right fail to make up for the risks that come with them (those being the detrimental effects that happen if you don't luck out). The ONE exception to this is a card that was deemed broken and thus banned because the "bad" outcome could be taken advantage of.

9 hours ago, X-Naut said:

I disagree on the DS backfire point though, if anything it's a point in the player's favor since enemies tend to have lower defenses in the games where they carry these weapons. I once had the Devil Sword thief in Chapter 4 of FE12 OHKO himself attacking Arran, which is hilarious.

I consider that funny, to be honest, but I was mostly speaking in the context of player use.

4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Anyway, as far as devil weapons go, the main use I've personally found for them is using them to raise axe rank when you know a backfire won't kill you. In FE7-8, one swing gave 8 weapon exp, if memory serves. Many units you might want to raise axe rank on (e.g. Raven, Gerik) have high HP, so if you're confident that you can afford a backfire (i.e. it's a turn with relatively few enemies in range), you can take a swing and get your axe rank up fast. This is too esoteric for me to bother with, usually, but I do think it's a niche, legitimate use.

Ehh, that's kinda hard to count on when you realize that as enemies in those games have no (Blazing Blade) or mostly low (Sacred Stones) luck, you have to worry that they will get a crit, and, as this is a Devil Axe we're talking about here, the chance of backfiring. Also, honestly, as far as those games are concerned, I pretty much never see weapon rank as such a problem that I'd resort to that kind of risky play just to raise it.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Ehh, that's kinda hard to count on when you realize that as enemies in those games have no (Blazing Blade) or mostly low (Sacred Stones) luck, you have to worry that they will get a crit, and, as this is a Devil Axe we're talking about here, the chance of backfiring. Also, honestly, as far as those games are concerned, I pretty much never see weapon rank as such a problem that I'd resort to that kind of risky play just to raise it.

The chance of a simultaneous crit + backfire is extremely low (less than 1% is common depending on the exact numbers), but sure, maybe don't do it late in a map. You can also use it on a wall/snags where crits aren't possible (at least I don't think they are?).

But to be clear this is certainly something I've only done on a minority of playthroughs, and isn't that important. It's a pretty small niche (especially since, as you note, you don't really need to raise axe rank... Hand Axes are already E for some baffling reason), but I think it's better than using them for "real" combat. Sometimes it's nice to have someone swing that Killer/Brave Axe you have and maybe you're not using many/any natural axe-users, since most of them are pretty poor in these games (particularly in SS). Swordreaver/Swordslayer is also a nice option to work towards, especially for Heroes who can't gain advantage on swords otherwise. But nothing essential.

 

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5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

So the takeaway from this is that they're only particularly good in one game (well, one non-3H game). That's concerning. Otherwise, whatever good points they offer don't justify using them because the risk just isn't worth taking. The thing is, in my opinion, if you have very high risks attached to something, the benefits need to be good enough to make up for that. Just look at the Yu-Gi-Oh card game. Many of the cards with effects that depend on die rolls and coin tosses are avoided by most players because the good effects you get if you call right fail to make up for the risks that come with them (those being the detrimental effects that happen if you don't luck out). The ONE exception to this is a card that was deemed broken and thus banned because the "bad" outcome could be taken advantage of.

I consider that funny, to be honest, but I was mostly speaking in the context of player use.

Ehh, that's kinda hard to count on when you realize that as enemies in those games have no (Blazing Blade) or mostly low (Sacred Stones) luck, you have to worry that they will get a crit, and, as this is a Devil Axe we're talking about here, the chance of backfiring. Also, honestly, as far as those games are concerned, I pretty much never see weapon rank as such a problem that I'd resort to that kind of risky play just to raise it.

Well sure, you don't have to use them. It's entirely understandable to not want to take the risk. Just like it's understandable to not use low hit weapons in general. But it's not like they don't have any use at all, even if you personally don't want to take the gamble. Risking Bord or Cord's life to speed up breaking Hyman a bit faster is pretty worth it if you don't value Bord 's life at all.  And I would probably put money on it that your opinion is the very much standard perspective of Fire Emblem fans and not some kind of hot take.

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12 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Anyway, as far as devil weapons go, the main use I've personally found for them is using them to raise axe rank when you know a backfire won't kill you. In FE7-8, one swing gave 8 weapon exp, if memory serves.

Which in 7&8 is doubled on fatal hits, as all WEXP is in those two games.

Considering you can get only 1 S rank and that you get +5 Hit & Crit for it, I've had Raven do a few murderous devil swings.

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On 11/11/2022 at 3:11 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Anyway, do I have to drop anything into the "Unpopular Opinions" jar? I forget if I've put any down before. Let's go with... "Revelation is my favorite of the three Fates routes to replay." Yes, that is sure to mildly irritate Conquest acolytes.

?

Fates base gameplay features, access to all Fates units, both nations classes and items, the potential of United Nations Planned Eugenics, at least one easy grind map, maps just as bad as prior FE´s but none as hard as CQ´s...

what´s not to like?

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22 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

?

Fates base gameplay features, access to all Fates units, both nations classes and items, the potential of United Nations Planned Eugenics, at least one easy grind map, maps just as bad as prior FE´s but none as hard as CQ´s...

what´s not to like?

The deployment limit? If you're going to give me so much content to mess around with, I would like to actually see it in battle.

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