Jump to content

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The deployment limit? If you're going to give me so much content to mess around with, I would like to actually see it in battle.

Mhm, IS played 3D chess when they made Rev playable only once per buy.

Only one save file too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 8.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I unironically was sad as a kid when I found out Phila wasn't going to join my army and instead died.  I also really like Soliel and I feel like I'm the only Soliel simp alive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/10/2022 at 4:52 AM, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not sure what the consensus in on Devil weapons, but... imho, they're only useful in Three Houses. The backfire chance in other games is just not worth risking. Special mention to the DS games, where the backfire uses the user's defense for damage instead of the damage the target would've taken - something that is very troublesome considering the high attack and low defense of axe classes. 

 

I never used those on any of the games I played so far. The juice just dont seem to be worth the squeeze when I can just grab a killer axe instead

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/14/2022 at 7:01 PM, Mordred said:

I unironically was sad as a kid when I found out Phila wasn't going to join my army and instead died.  I also really like Soliel and I feel like I'm the only Soliel simp alive.

>Awakening was almost a decade ago

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngmuchdistress

Only Phila fan I'd believe, but there's gotta be at least one other Soleil simp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I think Fire Emblem as a series lost the art of creating minor villains. And minor villains are actually pretty important. A story is only as good as its minor villains. The Rebels can't start with overthrowing the Emperor after all. They need someone like Tarkin who's both a legitimate threat, as well as weak enough that you can easily imagine much bigger threats above him.

Petrine is a good example of a very solid minor villain. Out of the Daein generals she's clearly the runt of the bunch. The weakest, overly trigger happy and less competent than her peers. But despite this she's also very intimidating and generally competent enough. She's a dangerous enemy general and as a combatant there are a lot of indications that Petrine is really powerful. The Greil mercenaries start out defeating Petrine's forces time after time, but the entire time they're on the run because Petrine can and will kill them easily if she catches up to them. Out of everyone in the group only Greil is capable of facing Petrine, and ultimately the Greil mercenaries only survive Petrine by the skin of their teeth. Later on this previously mortal danger to Ike is the first of the villains to fall in order to showcase how far Ike has come. 

Same with Jarod. In the grand scheme of things he's not really important or dangerous, but throughout part 1 he has the power and strength of personality to be a consistent, and very dangerous threat to the Dawn Brigade. That he's scripted to be the only enemy in part one not to get one rounded by the Black knight implies he's both a mighty warrior, and a ruthless antagonist. Even a complete joke villain like Narcian was a very solid junior villain. While bombastic and over the top he was also clearly a danger to Roy, to the point Roy had to go grovel to Etruria to survive him. In Blazing Sword it keeps being said or implied that the Four Fangs are stronger than the lords upon first meeting them, and the Grado Generals have the designs, personality and presence to consistently appear a real threat to the twins rather than wimpy stepping stones they need to easily topple before reaching Lyon.

After Radiant Dawn however this trend of consistently threatening minor villains mostly vanished. In Awakening no nation lasted long enough for a more minor antagonist to emerge, and Exellus who most closely fit the bill was a joke character and thus not threatening by definition.

In Fates we had to endure Iago and Hans who never came across as effective or threatening beyond their ability to hide behind Garon's skirt. There was never a sense that Hans and Iago could pose a legitimate danger to Corrin, Xander and Ryoma no matter how hard they tried or how many resources they have available. If they scheme against Corrin it either fails or solely succeeds through Garon's intervention, and there's nothing to suggest they are powerful enough to face any of the siblings aside from the little sisters in combat.

In Echoes Berkut was created as a rival to Alm and an entity above Desaix during part 1, but all Berkut ever does is lose and then run with his tail between his legs, enduring he can never put Alm in any sort of danger. Slayde meanwhile is menacing only to a bunch of preteen children and becomes more of a nuisance than a danger as soon as these kids turn into teenagers. 

And in Three Houses the most consistent threat during White Clouds would be Solon who's also not up to snuff. Every plot Solon has fails, and there's actually nothing to imply he's either very clever, or actually any stronger than any of the high school students he's up again. Same with Cornelia who's vaguely more competent than her peers but who'd easily be torn to shred by Dimitri if left alone with him, and who's regime takes about a single chapter to overthrow. 

Where first you had minor villains who were both stated or implied to be among the most fiercest of warriors, and generals who were able to push the heroes to the edge you now have a bunch of joke villains who consistently fail to pose any sort of threat, and would probably be beaten to a pulp by any member of your army in a fight. An enemy like Petrine is an extremely dangerous threat that's rewarding to overcome, but villains like Exelus are just wimpy weaklings who's failures are inevitable and richly deserved. Its actually quite the noticeable downgrade. 

Minor villains are on a real losing streak lately, so I hope the Four Hounds from Engage will be portrayed as dangerous and effective foes, rather than a bunch of joke villain Alear keeps easily beating up.

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Fire Emblem as a series lost the art of creating minor villains. And minor villains are actually pretty important. A story is only as good as its minor villains. The Rebels can't start with overthrowing the Emperor after all. They need someone like Tarkin who's both a legitimate threat, as well as weak enough that you can easily imagine much bigger threats above him.

Petrine is a good example of a very solid minor villain. Out of the Daein generals she's clearly the runt of the bunch. The weakest, overly trigger happy and less competent than her peers. But despite this she's also very intimidating and generally competent enough. She's a dangerous enemy general and as a combatant there are a lot of indications that Petrine is really powerful. The Greil mercenaries start out defeating Petrine's forces time after time, but the entire time they're on the run because Petrine can and will kill them easily if she catches up to them. Out of everyone in the group only Greil is capable of facing Petrine, and ultimately the Greil mercenaries only survive Petrine by the skin of their teeth. Later on this previously mortal danger to Ike is the first of the villains to fall in order to showcase how far Ike has come. 

Same with Jarod. In the grand scheme of things he's not really important or dangerous, but throughout part 1 he has the power and strength of personality to be a consistent, and very dangerous threat to the Dawn Brigade. That he's scripted to be the only enemy in part one not to get one rounded by the Black knight implies he's both a mighty warrior, and a ruthless antagonist. Even a complete joke villain like Narcian was a very solid junior villain. While bombastic and over the top he was also clearly a danger to Roy, to the point Roy had to go grovel to Etruria to survive him. In Blazing Sword it keeps being said or implied that the Four Fangs are stronger than the lords upon first meeting them, and the Grado Generals have the designs, personality and presence to consistently appear a real threat to the twins rather than wimpy stepping stones they need to easily topple before reaching Lyon.

After Radiant Dawn however this trend of consistently threatening minor villains mostly vanished. In Awakening no nation lasted long enough for a more minor antagonist to emerge, and Exellus who most closely fit the bill was a joke character and thus not threatening by definition.

In Fates we had to endure Iago and Hans who never came across as effective or threatening beyond their ability to hide behind Garon's skirt. There was never a sense that Hans and Iago could pose a legitimate danger to Corrin, Xander and Ryoma no matter how hard they tried or how many resources they have available. If they scheme against Corrin it either fails or solely succeeds through Garon's intervention, and there's nothing to suggest they are powerful enough to face any of the siblings aside from the little sisters in combat.

In Echoes Berkut was created as a rival to Alm and an entity above Desaix during part 1, but all Berkut ever does is lose and then run with his tail between his legs, enduring he can never put Alm in any sort of danger. Slayde meanwhile is menacing only to a bunch of preteen children and becomes more of a nuisance than a danger as soon as these kids turn into teenagers. 

And in Three Houses the most consistent threat during White Clouds would be Solon who's also not up to snuff. Every plot Solon has fails, and there's actually nothing to imply he's either very clever, or actually any stronger than any of the high school students he's up again. Same with Cornelia who's vaguely more competent than her peers but who'd easily be torn to shred by Dimitri if left alone with him, and who's regime takes about a single chapter to overthrow. 

Where first you had minor villains who were both stated or implied to be among the most fiercest of warriors, and generals who were able to push the heroes to the edge you now have a bunch of joke villains who consistently fail to pose any sort of threat, and would probably be beaten to a pulp by any member of your army in a fight. An enemy like Petrine is an extremely dangerous threat that's rewarding to overcome, but villains like Exelus are just wimpy weaklings who's failures are inevitable and richly deserved. Its actually quite the noticeable downgrade. 

Minor villains are on a real losing streak lately, so I hope the Four Hounds from Engage will be portrayed as dangerous and effective foes, rather than a bunch of joke villain Alear keeps easily beating up.

Counter point! Making good villains is hard and they can just have us fight Hubert sixteen times per playthrough instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

 

After Radiant Dawn however this trend of consistently threatening minor villains mostly vanished. In Awakening no nation lasted long enough for a more minor antagonist to emerge, and Exellus who most closely fit the bill was a joke character and thus not threatening by definition

I don't think this fully holds water, mostly due to how arbitrary it is what you consider minor villains, for instance

 

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Same with Jarod. In the grand scheme of things he's not really important or dangerous, but throughout part 1 he has the power and strength of personality to be a consistent, and very dangerous threat to the Dawn Brigade

If Jarod, the ruler of occupied Daein, and final boss of Part 1 is considered a minor villain

 

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

In Awakening no nation lasted long enough for a more minor antagonist to emerge, and Exellus who most closely fit the bill was a joke character and thus not threatening by definition.

It feels arbitrary to exclude villains like Gangrell, and Walhart the Conqueror from consideration from Awakening, and both of them do a sufficient job of being imposing minor villains over fairly significant arcs of the story.

 

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

 


In Fates we had to endure Iago and Hans who never came across as effective or threatening beyond their ability to hide behind Garon's skirt. There was never a sense that Hans and Iago could pose a legitimate danger to Corrin, Xander and Ryoma no matter how hard they tried or how many resources they have available. If they scheme against Corrin it either fails or solely succeeds through Garon's intervention, and there's nothing to suggest they are powerful enough to face any of the siblings aside from the little sisters in combat.

 

Or the opposing royal siblings from Birthright and Conquest. Camilla is certainly an imposing minor villain to the player in Birthright, and Ryoma is likewise during Conquest. Plus I kinda see Iago on a similar level as Narcian, making schemes that often requires the intervention of allies to overcome.

 

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

 


In Echoes Berkut was created as a rival to Alm and an entity above Desaix during part 1, but all Berkut ever does is lose and then run with his tail between his legs, enduring he can never put Alm in any sort of danger. Slayde meanwhile is menacing only to a bunch of preteen children and becomes more of a nuisance than a danger as soon as these kids turn into teenagers. 

 

And it seems odd to actively ignore Desaix in this whole equation as well, who is already filling the role you seem to want, and IS had enough backlash with Kris about new characters stealing roles. Even ignoring Desaix, you really are underselling Berkut here, as it is made fairly clear that the reason he losses is purely due to hubris. The first fight you have involving Berkut has him massively outnumbered and surrounded, and despite that disadvantage he is still presented as dangerous, and escape what should be an inescapable death trap just fine with Alm only just barely winning overall (according to the story, and even in gameplay its a map you have to pay attention to to avoid unit death).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

>according to the story

yeah exactly

Berkut is scary because, uh...well because the game tells you he should be.

Very compelling reason there, game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Berkut is scary because, uh...well because the game tells you he should be.

 

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

according to the story, and even in gameplay its a map you have to pay attention to to avoid unit death

...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Fire Emblem as a series lost the art of creating minor villains. And minor villains are actually pretty important. A story is only as good as its minor villains. The Rebels can't start with overthrowing the Emperor after all. They need someone like Tarkin who's both a legitimate threat, as well as weak enough that you can easily imagine much bigger threats above him.

I'm not sure minor villains are as important to a story as you seem to think they are, but I do generally agree that FE used to do a pretty good job with them and hasn't been of late as much.

It does depend who you consider minor. I think the enemy siblings in Conquest and (especially) Birthright are good, for instance, though yes Hans and Iago... not so much. Gangrel's pretty solid too (and as already mentioned, absolutely qualifies if Jarod does, they're the main antagonist for about the same number of chapters even). But more recently... yeah SoV is pretty bad at this (I basically agree with the criticisms of Berkut, and Desaix I found ineffective too) and 3H is also poor, topping out with AM Cornelia who's okay. But for me at least this does highlight that this isn't that important a writing category for me, since I like 3H quite a lot and while its minor villains are below par, its route-dependent main antagonists I think very highly of.

It's interesting to think of Tarkin as a minor villain when he's arguably the primary antagonist of the original Star Wars (I'd say he and Darth Vader are more or less co-main villains of that film), so in a version of reality where no sequel was ever made, it'd be a bit silly to give him that label. But I see what you're getting at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Desaix pulled his weight rather well as a minor villain. We don't really learn anything we didn't know about him before, but the memory prism scenes add a nice bit of vileness to him with how unremorseful he is killing the royal children. I also like how the game brings up Mila in that memory prism and we get to see Desaix's contempt for her as well. It's not exactly high art, but you can squint and see Desaix as a foil to Alm and Rudolf with his desire to usher in a new era. 

I do wish they'd removed the whole "Aha, that was my double" piece of silliness and just have a branched plot line if you do manage to kill Desaix at the end of chapter 1. It wouldn't have actually changed much from the following chapters, just replace him with Slayde (who really didn't need to survive either). Or, if they really wanted to retain the double silliness (which I guess they did, they kept Nosferatu killing Duma after all), lean into it and bring the double up again as a joke somewhere or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I do wish they'd removed the whole "Aha, that was my double" piece of silliness and just have a branched plot line if you do manage to kill Desaix at the end of chapter 1. It wouldn't have actually changed much from the following chapters, just replace him with Slayde (who really didn't need to survive either). Or, if they really wanted to retain the double silliness (which I guess they did, they kept Nosferatu killing Duma after all), lean into it and bring the double up again as a joke somewhere or something.

Might be my "unpopular opinion", but the "double" line was pure gold. It rewards the player for playing in a ludicrous manner - continually chipping down Desaix, while manipulating Slayde's AI into aiming for different target tiles - with a ludicrous scenario. Plus, it answers the question of "what happened to the Dracoshield?". If you don't kill him, Desaix's double is just chilling with it. Maybe he's on a beach somewhere, using it as a surfboard.

11 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

yeah exactly

Berkut is scary because, uh...well because the game tells you he should be.

Very compelling reason there, game.

His leitmotif brings terror with it. Why does Berkut need military victories or ruthlessness, when his theme music can just terrify all his foes into submission?

On 1/12/2023 at 3:31 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

And in Three Houses the most consistent threat during White Clouds would be Solon who's also not up to snuff. Every plot Solon has fails, and there's actually nothing to imply he's either very clever, or actually any stronger than any of the high school students he's up again. Same with Cornelia who's vaguely more competent than her peers but who'd easily be torn to shred by Dimitri if left alone with him, and who's regime takes about a single chapter to overthrow. 

I thought Lonato and Miklan were both very good "minor villains". Lonato showed the discontent a large portion of the population holds toward the Church, while the chapter fighting him revealed the degree of the Church's hold. As for Miklan, his story pointed to issues with the nobility, and a Crest system that decides one's worth from birth, while his tragic end hinted at the true nature of Hero's Relics. On top of that, each of them had a relationship with a pre-existing character, each if whom was affected by having to face down - and defeat - a member of their own family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Might be my "unpopular opinion", but the "double" line was pure gold. It rewards the player for playing in a ludicrous manner - continually chipping down Desaix, while manipulating Slayde's AI into aiming for different target tiles - with a ludicrous scenario. Plus, it answers the question of "what happened to the Dracoshield?". If you don't kill him, Desaix's double is just chilling with it. Maybe he's on a beach somewhere, using it as a surfboard.

Well my personal head canon is that is was Xane dicking around between the Archanean games trying to avoid Gotoh giving him any more responsibilities.

12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I thought Lonato and Miklan were both very good "minor villains". Lonato showed the discontent a large portion of the population holds toward the Church, while the chapter fighting him revealed the degree of the Church's hold. As for Miklan, his story pointed to issues with the nobility, and a Crest system that decides one's worth from birth, while his tragic end hinted at the true nature of Hero's Relics. On top of that, each of them had a relationship with a pre-existing character, each if whom was affected by having to face down - and defeat - a member of their own family.

Honestly I think Lonato and Miklan were better done than the actual major villains in the game. Kronya also manages to make herself decently hateable in the short time she's around, though I might be biased from really liking how she plays in Heroes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

FE Engage is going to be an aggressive average game at best.

Average for FE standards or average for general standards? The latter would still make it one of the better FE games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Average for FE standards or average for general standards? The latter would still make it one of the better FE games.

Both

Edited by Sidereal Wraith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/15/2023 at 2:35 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

It's interesting to think of Tarkin as a minor villain when he's arguably the primary antagonist of the original Star Wars (I'd say he and Darth Vader are more or less co-main villains of that film), so in a version of reality where no sequel was ever made, it'd be a bit silly to give him that label. But I see what you're getting at.

Perhaps minor villain wasn't the best phrase. I was toying with other names such as junior or secondary villains.

What I had in mind when I wrote that were the likes of Petrine, Valter, Lang and Ephidel. Villains who carry the first acts of the story, are portrayed as very dangerous but who are not the highest ranking among the villain totum pole. Petrine for instance seems quite a lot more Junior than the Black Knight despite officially holding the same rank, Valter and Caelach don't seem in the know about the demon king, and while the leading villain of the first movie Tarkin is ''just'' a mof, rather than a sith lord. But despite having very powerful seniors looming over them these villains are all real threats for the heroes that people like Iago or Solon just aren't.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hot takes. the opening of Engage is very good   after hearing it so many times

somehow i got tokusatsu show vibe ala power rangers when watching it play lol

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Perhaps minor villain wasn't the best phrase. I was toying with other names such as junior or secondary villains.

yeah, i dont think minor villain should be that threatening. if they do, they should be promoted to major villain ASAP

also, having villain keep losing seems inevitable. if they start winning without anyone dying thats very hard to pull off since people wont believe they could lose. not even death knight survive from player might,  even when he's overlevelled

if they start killing your character, thats also a no-no. no one (playable character) should die permanently due to plot in a dating simul--- i mean war simulation.

happening offscreen also stupid like anything that happen offscreen in 3H.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, joevar said:

hot takes. the opening of Engage is very good   after hearing it so many times

somehow i got tokusatsu show vibe ala power rangers when watching it play lol

yeah, i dont think minor villain should be that threatening. if they do, they should be promoted to major villain ASAP

also, having villain keep losing seems inevitable. if they start winning without anyone dying thats very hard to pull off since people wont believe they could lose. not even death knight survive from player might,  even when he's overlevelled

if they start killing your character, thats also a no-no. no one (playable character) should die permanently due to plot in a dating simul--- i mean war simulation.

happening offscreen also stupid like anything that happen offscreen in 3H.

It's definitely possible to have a villain keep showing up without losing, and the series has done it several times already. Early Path of Radiance is a great example. Petrine has her own separate fight with Griel where they go toe to toe, establishing her as a villain. The Black Knight shows up and cowers even Petrine. Later the Black Knight shows up the port chapter where he is invincible in gameplay, but won't actually kill any of your units if you're playing right (though sympathies for those poor folks who played Hard mode straight away, where he moves, and over extended themselves right into his range).

The other option is the Narcian method where the villain constantly delegates stopping the heroes to underlings. This is very effective for Narcian in particular as it makes him feel like a total piece of shit who can't even be bothered to get his hands dirty himself and shows his incompetence by constantly underestimating Roy. Yet, Narcian still manages to feel like a credible threat as you always get the impression if he did move his ass he could deal with things, the whole confrontation outside of Ostia helps him too.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as stupid things happening offscreen in 3H. Aside from backstory, very little actually happens offscreen in Three Houses. There's the timeskip, but aside from Dimitri going through some shit, very little actually happens during the time skip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...