What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[De Geso]

4 hours ago, Roshi Roze said:

Congratulations on having the fourth most popular opinion in the fandom. Right behind Ike is great, Fates is Garbage, and FE4 is good.

It's unpopular in the grand scheme of the FE fanbase. Most fans like Awakening a lot.

[Harvey]

14 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

…To address this opinion, I don't think Zephiel was actually trying to do anything right for anyone but the dragons, and looking at it from their perspective he was trying to do the right thing…it's just that we're not playing as the dragons, so he looks like an animal-rights protestor taken to the utmost extreme.

And yet, not a single one of his subordinates question his decision of doing that or are even aware of what the king himself is really upto. Only person who knows this is her sister and yet for some dumb reason, he keeps her alive instead of killing here KNOWING that she can reach out to people to stop him.

 

[Jave]

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

And yet, not a single one of his subordinates question his decision of doing that or are even aware of what the king himself is really upto. Only person who knows this is her sister and yet for some dumb reason, he keeps her alive instead of killing here KNOWING that she can reach out to people to stop him.

 

This is all easily explained. The subordinates probably did notice what was wrong with Zephiel but did nothing either out of loyalty or fear of getting punished and even killed. As for Guinevere, well, she IS Zephiel's sister, so it's not strange to think that despite everything that happens Zephiel just doesn't have the heart to kill her.

[Harvey]

31 minutes ago, Jave said:

This is all easily explained. The subordinates probably did notice what was wrong with Zephiel but did nothing either out of loyalty or fear of getting punished and even killed. As for Guinevere, well, she IS Zephiel's sister, so it's not strange to think that despite everything that happens Zephiel just doesn't have the heart to kill her.

What about Milady and Zeiss then? They betrayed Bern regardless. As for loyalty, unless it is for good reasons, it shouldn't come to the point where they blindly obey commands which can get themselves killed in the long run. Even after Zephiel himself got killed, Brunnya still follows his orders....

What's funny is that Brunnya attempted a lot of soldiers to leave so they can spend time with their families. But the problem with this is that what she was about to do was to summon dragons that could just destroy just that. This to me just proves that none of Zephiel's royales had second thoughts about this whole plan nor had any doubt about Bern's faith in itself.

As for Gunivere...nah, considering his mental illness, I highly doubt that he could not kill his sister. Even the manga makes it like he was going to kill her for real.

This is why I like the characters in FE7 better because their characterisation is better. Wallace is the perfect example of this as he questioned his leader and decided not to obey him for that. And Legault for quitting the Fang because he lost faith in it and just left. Sure, FE7 's plot may be incoherent but unlike FE6, atleast there's depth to a lot of the cast...something which FE6 for the most part doesn't and imo, Zephiel just doesn't do that much and the only reason why many like him is because of how he was implemented in FE7 with his backstory fleshed out further.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Harvey

[Jave]

19 minutes ago, Harvey said:

What about Milady and Zeiss then? They betrayed Bern regardless. As for loyalty, unless it is for good reasons, it shouldn't come to the point where they blindly obey commands which can get themselves killed in the long run. Even after Zephiel himself got killed, Brunnya still follows his orders....

What's funny is that Brunnya attempted a lot of soldiers to leave so they can spend time with their families. But the problem with this is that what she was about to do was to summon dragons that could just destroy just that. This to me just proves that none of Zephiel's royales had second thoughts about this whole plan nor had any doubt about Bern's faith in itself.

As for Gunivere...nah, considering his mental illness, I highly doubt that he could not kill his sister. Even the manga makes it like he was going to kill her for real.

This is why I like the characters in FE7 better because their characterisation is better. Wallace is the perfect example of this as he questioned his leader and decided not to obey him for that. And Legault for quitting the Fang because he lost faith in it and just left. Sure, FE7 's plot may be incoherent but unlike FE6, atleast there's depth to a lot of the cast...something which FE6 for the most part doesn't and imo, Zephiel just doesn't do that much and the only reason why many like him is because of how he was implemented in FE7 with his backstory fleshed out further.

 

Hey, I just mentioned possible reasons as to WHY those things happened. I never said the writing was necessarily good. If you want to melt your head trying to make sense out of every little detail, be my guest. I'm satisfied with the explanation I consider logical.

[Armagon]

19 minutes ago, Harvey said:

What about Milady and Zeiss then? They betrayed Bern regardless.

The former swore loyalty to Guinevere, not Zephiel. She didn't really care what Zephiel thought. The latter simply followed his sister. 

20 minutes ago, Harvey said:

As for loyalty, unless it is for good reasons, it shouldn't come to the point where they blindly obey commands which can get themselves killed in the long run.

By that logic, why would anyone fight a war? You can easily get killed in war, so why obey your superiors?

24 minutes ago, Harvey said:

What's funny is that Brunnya attempted a lot of soldiers to leave so they can spend time with their families. But the problem with this is that what she was about to do was to summon dragons that could just destroy just that. This to me just proves that none of Zephiel's royales had second thoughts about this whole plan nor had any doubt about Bern's faith in itself.

This doesn't prove anything. Maybe if you actually paid attention to the dialogue, you'd understand. Brunya knew she had already lost the battle, that's why she ordered soldiers who had children and elderly parents to leave. Brunya wasn't trying to summon dragons. She can't do that in the first place. The only one who can do that is Idoun and Brunya likely knew that Idoun would lose considering Roy's army had all of the Legendary Weapons at that point.

28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

As for Gunivere...nah, considering his mental illness, I highly doubt that he could not kill his sister. Even the manga makes it like he was going to kill her for real.

Zephiel was aiming for Al. When Guinevere jumped in between them, Zephiel had to avert his aim at the last second to avoid killing her.

Spoiler

 

 

[SoulWeaver]

22 hours ago, Armagon said:

Zephiel was aiming for Al. When Guinevere jumped in between them, Zephiel had to avert his aim at the last second to avoid killing her.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Holy snap, that's some killer precision, cutting the Fire Emblem off her pendant with only the tiniest tear on her dress. I totally forgot about that moment. Zephiel just became way cooler.

Edited January 8, 2018 by SoulWeaver

[henrymidfields]

Tokyo Mirage Sessions is the only Wii U exclusive game that's worth my time and money. It's not the only game I'll be playing on the Wii U, though.

[Harvey]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Zephiel was aiming for Al. When Guinevere jumped in between them, Zephiel had to avert his aim at the last second to avoid killing her.

And if you paid attention latter on in the plot....

Spoiler

If Gunivere interrupted any further, he would have killed her. Quite frankly, his ultimate technique should have been enough to have done so but somehow..it didn't work.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

The former swore loyalty to Guinevere, not Zephiel. She didn't really care what Zephiel thought. The latter simply followed his sister. 

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

They still have to follow orders from Zephiel though. The fact that he ordered Mileady to escort Gunivere on the way out was simply proving otherwise.

Zeiss followed her because he was in a position of not trusting Bern anymore. 

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

By that logic, why would anyone fight a war? You can easily get killed in war, so why obey your superiors?

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

The difference here is that soldiers fight and die to serve their kingdom. The wars that Bern encountered are not for the good of Bern but rather for the bad of it. So just imagine that a soldier who had family and what not...well instead of like serving them and his country, the king like created dragons and suddenly killed of the soldier's family and himself. So he neither served his country nor did he serve for his family and that's what Zephiel was planning to do the whole time.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

This doesn't prove anything. Maybe if you actually paid attention to the dialogue, you'd understand. Brunya knew she had already lost the battle, that's why she ordered soldiers who had children and elderly parents to leave. Brunya wasn't trying to summon dragons. She can't do that in the first place. The only one who can do that is Idoun and Brunya likely knew that Idoun would lose considering Roy's army had all of the Legendary Weapons at that point.

Brunnya didn't summon dragons so I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is that she followed orders that could have potentially destroyed mankind and that also means destroying people of Bern. The fact that she was Zephiel's subordinate and did not realize this just proves that no one besides Gunivere had an idea of what he was about to do. Luckily, our boy just saved mankind.

 

[Armagon]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

And if you paid attention latter on in the plot....

  Reveal hidden contents

If Gunivere interrupted any further, he would have killed her. Quite frankly, his ultimate technique should have been enough to have done so but somehow..it didn't work.

But he didn't. The fact that he avoided killing Guinevere in the first place shows that Zephiel still cared for her a little bit. If he truly wanted her dead, he wouldn't have missed prior. Also, that wasn't his ultimate technique.

Love how we're debating non-canon material.

In the actual canon material

Quote

Zephiel:
“Guinevere, you are my only sister. Therefore, I will forgive you this time. But not the next. Do you understand?”

Zephiel does threaten to kill her but only if she betrays him again. But the very fact that he's able to forgive his sister's betrayal, when he probably would've just executed anyone else, shows that he cares for her, even if it's just a tiny bit.

 

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

The difference here is that soldiers fight and die to serve their kingdom.

Bern soldiers are still fighting for their kingdom. They are fighting for their king's cause. This is like war 101. Asking why Bernite soldiers followed Zephiel is like asking why German soldiers followed Hitler. 

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

They still have to follow orders from Zephiel though. The fact that he ordered Mileady to escort Gunivere on the way out was simply proving otherwise.

Quote

Miredy:
“! Did you think that I would prioritize my reputation above you? I am your loyal knight more than I am a knight of Bern. That has not changed ever since I was knighted.”

Guinevere:
“Miredy…”

Miredy:
“If you told me to let you go, then I would follow your order with pleasure.”

 

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Zeiss followed her because he was in a position of not trusting Bern anymore. 

Nope

Quote

Zeis:
“Miredy!”

Miredy:
“Zeis!? What are you doing here?”

Zeis:
“…I’m being accused of betraying Bern.”

Miredy:
“Oh…! Is it…my fault…?

Zeis:
“Sir Gale said that you had joined the enemy. But I couldn’t believe it until now, when I can see it with my own eyes! Why! Why did you betray Bern?”

Miredy:
“I never betrayed Bern. I just wanted to help Princess Guinevere.”

Zeis:
“So you threw away everything…your homeland, your family, even your lover…for the princess. For that…stubborn princess who betrayed her own brother!”

Miredy:
“Enough, Zeis! I will not tolerate you insulting Princess Guinevere!”

Zeis:
“……”

Miredy:
“It’s the princess, not the king, who is truly working for the good of Bern. Granted, I was angry when the princess left without consulting me at all. But now that I’m by her side, I understand more than ever…that she had not made a mistake.”

Zeis:
“…Sir Gale was right.”

Miredy:
“?”

Zeis:
“He said that he didn’t intend on doing anything until he heard your story.”

Miredy:
“Gale said that…”

Zeis:
“I don’t fully agree with you yet, but… I know I can trust you.”

Miredy:
“Zeis! Then…?”

Zeis:
“If the Lycia Alliance Army’s leader would allow it, I want to go with you. I want to see the princess’ beliefs that moved you so.”

 

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Brunnya didn't summon dragons so I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is that she followed orders that could have potentially destroyed mankind and that also means destroying people of Bern. The fact that she was Zephiel's subordinate and did not realize this just proves that no one besides Gunivere had an idea of what he was about to do. Luckily, our boy just saved mankind.

Quote

Bern soldiers are still fighting for their kingdom. They are fighting for their king's cause. This is like war 101. Asking why Bernite soldiers followed Zephiel is like asking why German soldiers followed Hitler. 

Brunya knew what Zephiel was trying to do. Hell, fucking Narcian knew. But Brunya still followed Zephiel's orders. The only reason she let some of her men go is because she knew that she had lost the battle before it began and likely figured that it was only a matter of time until Idoun was defeated.

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

But he didn't. The fact that he avoided killing Guinevere in the first place shows that Zephiel still cared for her a little bit. If he truly wanted her dead, he wouldn't have missed prior. Also, that wasn't his ultimate technique.

Read that page there. He clearly stated that he will not let anything pass from her at that point. Also, his technique happened just after that pic so...

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Zephiel does threaten to kill her but only if she betrays him again. But the very fact that he's able to forgive his sister's betrayal, when he probably would've just executed anyone else, shows that he cares for her, even if it's just a tiny bit.

And the funny thing is, she does betray him again. And there was never a script about Zephiel regarding Gunivere missing again. He didn't bother to call others at this point to find her again so clearly..he just doesn't care for her.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Bern soldiers are still fighting for their kingdom. They are fighting for their king's cause. This is like war 101. Asking why Bernite soldiers followed Zephiel is like asking why German soldiers followed Hitler. 

Comparing Hiter to a game on fiction? wow....

Anyways, There is a choice of whom you support and either way gets them killed. The point here is that no one ever questions his actions except his sister and that is what is the big deal.

 

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Brunya knew what Zephiel was trying to do. Hell, fucking Narcian knew. But Brunya still followed Zephiel's orders. The only reason she let some of her men go is because she knew that she had lost the battle before it began and likely figured that it was only a matter of time until Idoun was defeated.

Which comes to the main point again. Why didn't the subordinates do like anything to like give advice to stop his plan? It really just makes the plot almost impossible to say that its well written because again, nobody else besides a few knew what zephiel was up against.

 

[Armagon]

28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Read that page there. He clearly stated that he will not let anything pass from her at that point. Also, his technique happened just after that pic so...

It actually happened before. The technique after that page was just a weaker one.

28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And the funny thing is, she does betray him again. And there was never a script about Zephiel regarding Gunivere missing again. He didn't bother to call others at this point to find her again so clearly..he just doesn't care for her.

Blame that on the presentation. We don't see Zephiel again until Ch.22.

28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Comparing Hiter to a game on fiction? wow....

You know what i meant. Don't try to walk around it.

29 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The point here is that no one ever questions his actions except his sister and that is what is the big deal.

32 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Which comes to the main point again. Why didn't the subordinates do like anything to like give advice to stop his plan? It really just makes the plot almost impossible to say that its well written because again, nobody else besides a few knew what zephiel was up against.

Once again, loyalty. Most of Bern is loyal to Zephiel. Why would the common soldier say to his king "nah man, stop that?". Then you have the Wyvern Generals. Murdock has been Zephiel's most loyal man since childhood. Narcian's a coward, telling Zephiel to stop would be the same as asking for a death sentence. Brunya loyal to Zephiel and her death quote implies she had feelings for him.

It's better than the Black Fang and Nergal. Very few people within the Black Fang knew what Nergal even looked like. They were taking orders from a mystery man. At least people knew Zephiel.

 

[Harvey]

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Blame that on the presentation. We don't see Zephiel again until Ch.22.

You can't blame the presentation for the absent script. If the script for the moment is not written then the presentation should not be blamed for that because it does not have that script to present it. Presentation should instead be blamed on not showing stuff like blinking eyes for example.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Once again, loyalty. Most of Bern is loyal to Zephiel. Why would the common soldier say to his king "nah man, stop that?". Then you have the Wyvern Generals. Murdock has been Zephiel's most loyal man since childhood. Narcian's a coward, telling Zephiel to stop would be the same as asking for a death sentence. Brunya loyal to Zephiel and her death quote implies she had feelings for him.

It's better than the Black Fang and Nergal. Very few people within the Black Fang knew what Nergal even looked like. They were taking orders from a mystery man. At least people knew Zephiel.

It still doesn't justify zephiel's actions. Narcian is least bothered about what happens around him so whatever..

 

And no. It's not better than black fang either because both zephiel and nergal have done stupid decisions that have more or less caused their own plans to have failed. 

[halos]

- Charlotte is best girl
- Kill Jagen, am i rite or am i rite? #onlycasualsplaytheprologuebro
-  Awakening is the most fun game in the franchise
- Grinding should be an integral mechanic

[Armagon]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

It still doesn't justify zephiel's actions

I thought we were talking about why Zephiel had followers, not whether or not Zephiel was justified in his goals. Because that's an entirely different story.

[SoulWeaver]

20 hours ago, halos said:

- Kill Jagen, am i rite or am i rite? #onlycasualsplaytheprologuebro

I choose option three: Jagen? You mean Offering For Tribute?

[halos]

12 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I choose option three: Jagen? You mean Offering For Tribute?

Yeah. I like getting the Gaiden chapters, so I usually sacrifice Jagen, kill Frey and either Gordin or Norne. Later, I also kill Bord and Cord, Vyland, Roshea, Matthis, and Castor.

[Shoblongoo]

Micaiah is an interesting main character, and the blood contract worked as a plot element and was a great way to advance the story.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the writing of FE10. Its the best in the series. 

[SoulWeaver]

17 hours ago, halos said:

Yeah. I like getting the Gaiden chapters, so I usually sacrifice Jagen, kill Frey and either Gordin or Norne. Later, I also kill Bord and Cord, Vyland, Roshea, Matthis, and Castor.

Eh, I'm a sucker for Archers so I usually sack Cain instead. I still need to finish that game, now that I think about it...

[Marco]

Fire Emblem Echoes is one of the greatest games in the series. Not sure how unpopular that is but it dosent seem very popular. 

[L'arachel]

Alm is nearly as bad as Corrin

[Harvey]

On 12/01/2018 at 8:17 PM, L'arachel said:

Alm is nearly as bad as Corrin

Atleast he's portrayed better than him. The latter hardly shows any expression.

Imo, I think the overall challenge in FE6 could have improved more. 

 

[Von Ithipathachai]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Imo, I think the overall challenge in FE6 could have improved more. 

Binding Blade is already the most difficult of the three GBA games, though.  Could you elaborate?

[Ae†her]

Stefan from PoR and RD has the coolest character design for the swordsmaster arch-type in the entire series.

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Binding Blade is already the most difficult of the three GBA games, though.  Could you elaborate?

Binding blade's challenge is mostly because of the overall design of the entire game in itself which has flaws that make it challenging for wrong reasons.

For starters, binding blade's gives you tons of units whom you are either going to use or won't use at all and in this game's case it is the latter. In a tactical rpg, you want to use units whom you can consistently rely on throughout the entire game. Unlike most of the games, fe6 tends to do the opposite only because it's challenge is partly on that aspect. 

Then there is the unit balance in itself...we all know that fe has a concept called HIT and every unit has the chance to HIT the opponent while the enemy has the chance to HIT the unit. HITTING is a needed mechanic because in order to win, you need to reliably HIT stuff.

Where am I getting in this? Half the units you get can't hit reliably and this is the main reason why I end up using Rutger because not only is his skill high, I can trust him to HIT stuff because he will often HIT the enemy. Sure later on you get better units that HIT but till then, you are not going to beat Henning without him.

Then those maps....they are long and only very few units have high move to finish most of them in few hours. None of them take minutes to complete except the first few chapters. As soon as chapter 7 starts, they start to get longer.

This would be fine but then the other problem is enemies get stronger than you and they make it very hard for you to make any kind of progress because again unit balance... This isn't challenging and it's just testing your patience in the long run.

What I am saying is that fe6 challenge is messed up because if game design flaws. If you compare Conquest, it's a challenging game that is pretty well balanced because every unit is balanced and weapons are also balanced despite the annoying debuffs.