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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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11 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I hate Support!Xander just as much as I do Story!Xander. The guy made Peri his retainer because she is hot (which she really isn't, but different strokes, I guess), I mean, come on! To say nothing of the fact that the supports make him come across like a giant hypocrite

Ghast's Support Science video on Peri explains that that's her fault, not his(you should look it up, he makes an excellent argument for why she never should have existed). Support Xander isn't just randomly acting in complete opposition to himself, it's because some idiot created Peri(probably trying to create a second Henry without actually understanding that there was more to Henry than that), who really should have been executed by the Nohrian government long ago, and the idiots higher up the chain decided what the hey, let's put her as Xander's retainer, which forced the writers to create an S-Support between two characters who honestly never should have met because, as I just said, she should have bit the dust long ago, and of the two Xander was the one who ended up worse off for it.

Also, thank you for letting me know I am not the only person who dislikes Forrest. I was starting to wonder what the heck was wrong with the world.

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On 13.2.2018 at 8:34 PM, Lau said:

Ephraim is too brash and impulsive, too cocky. I don't like that in a Lord (I do tend to favour the Marth type, so that may be why).

Fates just has a stronger cast. I'm much more invested in the Nohrian Royals, the Awakening Trio, Kaze, Saizo, Midori, Asugi, Kaden, Keaton, Orochi, Niles, Rinkah, so on so forth. For SS, I only liked Artur, Natasha and Joshua. The rest of the cast was just too...average

Friendly reminder that this is the Unpopular Opinions Thread, they're unpopular for a reason. Feel free to disagree with me.

I'm confused. You say you don't like the impulsive type of characters but then you list the most in-your-face personalities fates has to offer?

By "average" you mean less one-dimensonal, right?

A friendly reminder of this kind tells me a lot of your confidence in your arguments.

On 13.2.2018 at 9:47 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

More of my unpopular opinions:

  • Sacred Stones's plot is overrated; it's one of, if not the worst outright in the series. 
  • Sacred Stones has rather poor writing.
  • With the exception of Glen and Duessel, Sacred Stones's villains were all mediocre to outright bad.
  • Lyon was a very poor attempt at a tragic villain.
  • Awakening's plot, while it messed up in execution, is still better than the plots of certain other games (Sacred Stones and Sword of Seals).
  • Sumia and Cordelia are overrated.

1. I never saw FE8's plot highly praised.

2. Let's be honest here. So were most of the current villains that IS threw at us in all 3DS games.

3. Lyon beeing warshipped for that reason, I can fully agree on.

4. Awakenings plot is literally an updated version of Sacred Stone's. I feel this is a rather weak comparison.

5. Agreed.

 

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8 hours ago, Armagon said:

It's one of the biggest things that frustrate me with the fandom. I know the real culprit is the writing for making female Lords as if they were in the wrong but like, you got criticizing Ike, Ephraim and even Alm recently for being flawless and want characters with more flaws. Then, after Corrin gets praised for his flaws (in the game, not in the fandom obviously) and never getting punished for them, a lot of people wanted Lords who have flaws and get punished for them (because only Sigurd and Leif had that). Then Celica comes in, has flaws, gets punished for them and now you've got people saying she's a bad character for trusting Jedah. Should Celica not have trusted Jedah? Yes. However, it's her naivety that led to her trusting him. That doesn't make her a bad character. A similar deal happened with Eirika.  People criticize flawless Lords like Ike, Ephraim and Alm but they also criticize female Lords for having flaws and getting punished for them. I know not everyone who complains about one complains about the other but it's frustrating seeing that hypocrisy.

As i said before, the real issue with the writing of most female Lords is that they're always treated as being in the wrong and never being given chances to overcome their flaws. But other than that, i feel like most female Lords are better written than most male Lords, since they actually have flaws and get punished for them, something that most male Lords can't say.

I suppose another issue with female Lords is that they are never alone; they always have a male Lord beside them. Said male Lord gets way more spotlight than the female Lord (as seen in Radiant Dawn where Ike steals Micaiah's spotlight or in FE7 where Lyn isn't as relevant as Eliwood and Hector). Even in the spin-offs, we see that duality with Alfonse and Sharena and Rowan and Lianna (but at least in those cases, they are presented as equals). Really hoping FE16 is the first FE with a standalone female Lord.

Personally I dislike Celica because after her whole journey she STILL decides to trust Jedah. Eirika on the other hand I actually like and her one bad moment where she gives the orb to Lyon I don't mind because Lyon is someone dear to her-someone she couldn't just give up on just yet.

Mind you I don't disagree with you that the fandom can be a little harsh on female lords and I admit I've criticized Corrin as well and ended up not liking Celica but man I can't help it (I do like Micaiah and Eirika). Celica just felt like such an extreme way of handling it.

I doubt we're getting a standalone female FE lord after Fates's success. I expect IS to keep going with the LordAvatar idea.

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22 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I like Oboro, but I don't see why or how she is THE fan favourite.

It's mainly because in a game with a cast of characters that fans often consider to consist largely of "nothing but walking gimmicks," many find Oboro to be one of the few characters who strikes a balance with her character traits, does not go overboard with them, and shows more character than just one particular aspect to her. She is mainly known for her interest in fashion, but not all of her supports revolve around her talking about clothing. She is racist against Nohrians, but not every support she is in has her rant and show disdain toward them, and she even knows her limits when not to go overboard with her racism (best shown in her C-support with Silas and her A-support with Beruka). She has a crush on another character, but she never lets her romantic feelings completely consume herself. It is only brought up four times in Fates, thus making her those feelings more like a cute crush instead of a disturbing obsession that characters like Camilla have. Basically, Oboro strikes a nuance in her characterization.

Other factors I can think of for why she is fan favorite is that she is a very good unit and demonstrates how Spear Fighters are among the best classes in the game with her good tankiness, decent speed, and strong Attack, and fans also like her design. 

Edited by Erureido

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1 hour ago, Erureido said:

Basically, Oboro strikes a nuance in her characterization.

I feel like Warriors kind of killed that a bit, though. Admittedly, if you ask me Warriors kind of meme-d out a bunch of the characters, like Camilla, who was already on shaky ground as it was…not to mention I'm still pissed off that Celica is in the game in the first place.

EDIT! Hey, just realized that can be my on-Topic comment for the year! Um…watch out for some acid, though, I'm a touch bitter about this particular subject...
(maybe)Unpopular Opinion: Celica should never have been even considered for Warriors, brings nothing to the game unless you really like Celica(especially considering she's just a Marth clone and doesn't even have a unique moveset), and frankly hurts at least half of the characters she Supports with, especially her Marth Support, which brought my opinion of both of them down quite a bit for their inability to recognize such an obvious fact as their coming from the same world but different times. "But SoulWeaver, she just wants to stop the fighting, you warmongerer!" We already have Corrin filling the pacifist role, thanks, and while having FE protags be pacifists isn't a major problem, this is a WARRIORS game I'm talking about. "But SoulWeaver, she represents the newest game they want to push!" And Alm would have done the same while actually fitting the game's style of kill hundreds of nameless grunts in the name of Pikachu's Tears…I mean, friendship and the power of bonds. Actually, even with a clone moveset Alm would have been more unique than Celica too, just because he's left-handed and so everything would have to be mirrored. Heck, Tobin or Gray would have fit better too. Or the Whitewings, who also hail from Shadow Dragon and would thus have fulfilled a dual purpose of representing SoV and beefing up the cast numbers for SD. Or, to be honest, I think Valter or Narcian belongs in this game more than Celica. FREAKING NARCIAN. WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT ABOUT THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP AT ALL. AND STILL WOULD BE BETTER FOR THIS GAME THAN CELICA if only to give us more Axes IS why. "But SoulWeaver, we need more women in these games, you misogynistic (self-censored)!" First off, you watch your phraseology young lady. Second, so switch her with a woman who doesn't feel so ridiculously out-of-place in this game, like, give us Severa/Selena, who, while more into shopping than chopping, still fits better, though admittedly Awakening has enough playables already(yet still no Owain yet…be patient, SW, it's just a wait until March, just…keep it together). Heck, if you're going to push SoV anyways, give us Sonya, or Delthea, or Clair, or Mae, or heck, Yuzu, Emma, and Shade are all just sitting there and ALSO count as Fates characters technically, so you can continue the unceasing pushing of Fates while you're at it.

My apologies for the rant in the midst of all this talk about how Female Lords need more representation. Heck, I like Celica, I've got nothing against her in SoV(except that there's no way for her to recruit both Deen and Sonya, but that's not her fault), but her choice for Warriors has been bugging me for a while now and I needed to get it off my chest. Feel free to ignore it.

Edited by SoulWeaver

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3 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Personally I dislike Celica because after her whole journey she STILL decides to trust Jedah. Eirika on the other hand I actually like and her one bad moment where she gives the orb to Lyon I don't mind because Lyon is someone dear to her-someone she couldn't just give up on just yet.

I'd accept your bit on Eirika if it weren't for this:

L’Arachel:
“Our oldest legends tell us just this... Only one person has ever been able to shake off the Demon King’s domination. Rausten’s founder, Saint Latona the sure-hearted, shattered his fetters. If one possesses a strength of will beyond that of normal men... Only then can one throw off the shackles of the Demon King. But you saw it yourself, Eirika, with your own two eyes. Your friend Lyon’s body has already been claimed by the Demon King. Once it’s gone that far, there’s nothing that can be done. When the Demon King takes over someone, he devours his spirit, his very soul. Even if his hold on Lyon’s body could be released, that body would have no soul. There is no power in Rausten... not even the Sacred Stone... that can perform so great a miracle as to restore a shattered soul.”

On the other hand, from stuff I've read, Jedah told Celica exactly what she wanted to hear (admittedly, I haven't played the game, so I'm unsure what to think). 

3 hours ago, fOrEiGn sOUl said:

1. I never saw FE8's plot highly praised.

2. Let's be honest here. So were most of the current villains that IS threw at us in all 3DS games.

3. Lyon beeing warshipped for that reason, I can fully agree on.

4. Awakenings plot is literally an updated version of Sacred Stone's. I feel this is a rather weak comparison.

5. Agreed.

1. Maybe you haven't been to the right places.

2. Perhaps, but on the other hand, neither Awakening nor Fates felt like they were clearly biting off much more than they could chew with regard to villains (note that you have 6 Gemstones, and then you have Lyon, Vigarde, Orson, and the Demon King... All in a game that's only 22 chapters long)... 

3. My big issues with Lyon were the fact that he is portrayed rather inconsistently, as well as the fact that the Gemstones supersede him in importance for most of the game (not to mention by the time he does come into focus, the Lyon people like is gone). All in all, he, like Sacred Stones itself, feels like a huge missed opportunity.

4. Really? Because I honestly fail to see it...

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  • I think both Mae and Sonya are equal in SoV. They both have their niche. Boey is eh for me.
  • I think all 3 Fates games are great games. 
  • Fuck the Tower of Duma. I don't even care if it's an unpopular opinion or not, I hate the dungeon to no ends.
  • Mae is bae.
  • I find the anime aesthetic of the 3DS games perfectly fine. I've seen so many people whine about this.
  • Why do people shit on Corrin again? I find them perfectly fine.
  • Pegasus Riders are...not bad? I mean, they're not the worst.
  • And finally...the luck stat is the best in the game. 

 

 

 

...joking on that last one.

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7 hours ago, fOrEiGn sOUl said:

I'm confused. You say you don't like the impulsive type of characters but then you list the most in-your-face personalities fates has to offer?

By "average" you mean less one-dimensonal, right?

A friendly reminder of this kind tells me a lot of your confidence in your arguments.

 

Ooeck, I'm not getting into an argument about Fates' cast, been there, done that, it isn't pretty. But I will say this. Ephraim is way to reckless, he's too cocky, "I don't pick fights I can't win". I don't like that. Whereas with Fates, I don't see how any of them are shoved in your face. So they all have certain traits - Kaze is loyal but also 'survivor's guilt' over what happened to Corrin, Midori loves herbs and medicine, Keaton likes creepy weird things, etc. And yes, they may come across as tropey, but they're very different from the likes of Ephraim and Ike. It just happens that I don't like the latter two, is that wrong?

No, 'average' was just a word I used instead of 'bland', or 'uninteresting', which are two words I hate using.

I'm glad my friendly reminder did that, because you're right. I can't argue to save my life, words just seem to...escape me.

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3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd accept your bit on Eirika if it weren't for this:

L’Arachel:
“Our oldest legends tell us just this... Only one person has ever been able to shake off the Demon King’s domination. Rausten’s founder, Saint Latona the sure-hearted, shattered his fetters. If one possesses a strength of will beyond that of normal men... Only then can one throw off the shackles of the Demon King. But you saw it yourself, Eirika, with your own two eyes. Your friend Lyon’s body has already been claimed by the Demon King. Once it’s gone that far, there’s nothing that can be done. When the Demon King takes over someone, he devours his spirit, his very soul. Even if his hold on Lyon’s body could be released, that body would have no soul. There is no power in Rausten... not even the Sacred Stone... that can perform so great a miracle as to restore a shattered soul.”

On the other hand, from stuff I've read, Jedah told Celica exactly what she wanted to hear (admittedly, I haven't played the game, so I'm unsure what to think). 

Like how L'Arachel tried to convince Eirika not to make the controversial decision, Celica too has a moment where a character tries to convince not to make her dumb decision, though it plays out differently from L'Arachel's moment. The Masked Knight intervenes late in Act 4 to kill a Cantor that tried to get her to throw her life away, slaps Celica in the face, and then finally reveals his identity in front of her to convince her otherwise. If you want to watch where this all plays out, you can watch it here. I don't know how much of Echoes you've read/watched online, so I'm just going to leave a spoiler warning that the scene is where the Masked Knight's identity is revealed, and if you don't want to know who he really is, stop at 21:47.

Edited by Erureido

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On 12-2-2018 at 9:03 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Despite the Camus archtype being portrayed with more reverance and sympahty I actually think the Lorentz archtype tends to be far more noble, interesting and symphatitic.

The Lorentz archtype must face the uncomfertable realization that in order to do the right thing and to best serve their people they must rebel against their lords despite this leading them to be known as traitors to their former comrades. They place the greater good above their own honor and dignity. That's really, really noble while a Camus can be seen as insisting on serving against the common good because they are that invested in their own honor or misplaced feelings of loyalty. 

Camus joins an evil overlord trying to overthrow humanity because knightly vows dictate he must stay loyal to a scumbag lord,  Shiharam drowns his villagers for the sake people who made it very clear they will never accept him and Xander keeps serving Garon. Its a common theme that the Camus doesn't just hinder the wider world but their very own people as well. All for the sake of their own self satisfaction.  It tends to help a Camus if he has an emotional bond with their evil lord like Selena or even Xander. 

What hinders the many Lorentz characters is that they tend not to be very important. Camus is a very big deal in Archenea while Lorentz joins very late and dies very, very quickly in the sequal and while Tauroneo is very well written he's still very much a side character even if his bond with Greil should have given him more importance. The one from binding blade is by far the least important of the Etrurian generals and later games skipped them alltogether.

What also doesnt help their popularity is their age and appearance. They tend to be big old man rather then the tall, handsome blondes that dominate the Camus archtype. I have a feeling that matters a lot to some people and that its a big reason the later games decided not to have them. 

I'm definitely seconding the opinion that the Lorenz archetype is underrated and should have more importance. I wouldn't call them more noble and sympathetic than the Camus archetype though. 

Justice is a matter of following moral norms; when your moral norms clash, they have to be weighed properly. What I've always considered interesting about the Lorenz and Camus archetypes is that they share mostly the same morals, but their weighing of them is different. The Camus doesn't put aside justice for the sake of blind loyalty; loyalty, duty, honour and obedience are part of justice, and for them these values end up weighing higher than their personal beliefs about what is the best for the "greater good". The Lorenz makes the same weighing of pretty much the same moral convictions, but ends up with the opposite result.

With that in mind, I think FE games should put some more focus on the Lorenz and where possible put more focus on interaction between the Lorenz and the Camus, especially when they have the same background (Lorenz and Camus, Perceval and Douglas, Tauroneo and Bryce). Given how similar they really are, wouldn't it be great if we could see some interaction between Lorenz and Camus in FE1/11 where Lorenz tries to convince Camus to join Marth? Or some similar interaction between Tauroneo and Bryce in FE9? FE6 did the right thing by giving you the option of letting Cecilia and Perceval talk to Douglas.

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9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd accept your bit on Eirika if it weren't for this:

L’Arachel:
“Our oldest legends tell us just this... Only one person has ever been able to shake off the Demon King’s domination. Rausten’s founder, Saint Latona the sure-hearted, shattered his fetters. If one possesses a strength of will beyond that of normal men... Only then can one throw off the shackles of the Demon King. But you saw it yourself, Eirika, with your own two eyes. Your friend Lyon’s body has already been claimed by the Demon King. Once it’s gone that far, there’s nothing that can be done. When the Demon King takes over someone, he devours his spirit, his very soul. Even if his hold on Lyon’s body could be released, that body would have no soul. There is no power in Rausten... not even the Sacred Stone... that can perform so great a miracle as to restore a shattered soul.”

On the other hand, from stuff I've read, Jedah told Celica exactly what she wanted to hear (admittedly, I haven't played the game, so I'm unsure what to think).

Despite what l'arachel says I'm still sympathetic to Eirika's moment because she deeply cares for Lyon and couldn't let go. Lyon was a very close friend. Celica gets outright attacked by the entire Duma cult and even Jedah at one point. 

I really don't mind MC's making mistakes but Celica's moment with Jedah just didn't sit right with me.

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18 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Ghast's Support Science video on Peri explains that that's her fault, not his(you should look it up, he makes an excellent argument for why she never should have existed). Support Xander isn't just randomly acting in complete opposition to himself, it's because some idiot created Peri(probably trying to create a second Henry without actually understanding that there was more to Henry than that), who really should have been executed by the Nohrian government long ago, and the idiots higher up the chain decided what the hey, let's put her as Xander's retainer, which forced the writers to create an S-Support between two characters who honestly never should have met because, as I just said, she should have bit the dust long ago, and of the two Xander was the one who ended up worse off for it.

Also, thank you for letting me know I am not the only person who dislikes Forrest. I was starting to wonder what the heck was wrong with the world.

But the fact of the matter remains: he still made Peri his retainer because she is allegedly hot. No matter what writing decision is behind it, it's still there, in your face, gnawing at you. No amount of "could have" or "should have" can change that. I don't judge something by what it should or could have been, but by what it is. And Xander is a hypocrite who gets praise he really does not deserve, both in story and out. It's almost as if he was one of the true Mary Sues of Fates... huh. Fancy that.

But I won't disagree that Peri is not a good character. At all.

Also, yay for the "Dislike Forrest" club!

12 hours ago, Erureido said:

It's mainly because in a game with a cast of characters that fans often consider to consist largely of "nothing but walking gimmicks," many find Oboro to be one of the few characters who strikes a balance with her character traits, does not go overboard with them, and shows more character than just one particular aspect to her. She is mainly known for her interest in fashion, but not all of her supports revolve around her talking about clothing. She is racist against Nohrians, but not every support she is in has her rant and show disdain toward them, and she even knows her limits when not to go overboard with her racism (best shown in her C-support with Silas and her A-support with Beruka). She has a crush on another character, but she never lets her romantic feelings completely consume herself. It is only brought up four times in Fates, thus making her those feelings more like a cute crush instead of a disturbing obsession that characters like Camilla have. Basically, Oboro strikes a nuance in her characterization.

Other factors I can think of for why she is fan favorite is that she is a very good unit and demonstrates how Spear Fighters are among the best classes in the game with her good tankiness, decent speed, and strong Attack, and fans also like her design. 

Fair point, I guess. There are still characters I would consider better written / more likeable, but that comes down to personal taste.
As far as the Spear Fighter itself goes, I always found that class to be kind of underwhelming. Lances seem to be kind of weak in Fates and their middling stats make them, well, middling (I already talked about my troubles with balanced stats at length in this topic), so there will always be someone better at something else. Maybe I'm comparing Spear Masters too much to the Halberdiers and Sentinels of Radiant Dawn fame and that is my mistake, but I find Spear Masters more threatening as enemies than as allies.
As for her design... I'm not a fan, honestly, but again: taste.

9 hours ago, Paladin Thomas said:
  • Mae is bae.
  • I find the anime aesthetic of the 3DS games perfectly fine. I've seen so many people whine about this.
  • Why do people shit on Corrin again? I find them perfectly fine

1. Not exactly unpopular, I believe
2. They actually toned down the anime asthetic for Awakening and Fates and brought it back for Echoes. Have you SEEN GBA and GC / Wii Fire Emblem? Imo, they should have the artist for Echoes design every character from now on.
3. Agreed

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10 hours ago, Paladin Thomas said:
  • Why do people shit on Corrin again? I find them perfectly fine.

People hate Corrin because the story bends over backwards to avoid presenting his flaws as bad things, presumably for the sake of player pandering/not hurting the player's feelings.  They are supposed to be the player's self-insert, after all.

Really, every Avatar's problems can be traced back to them being a player self-insert.  Even Mark and Kiran, the most benign of them all, exist for the primary purpose of making the player feel more important than they actually are.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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23 hours ago, Armagon said:

How exactly does hunting animals make someone a psychopath? Is everyone that hunts for sport a psychopath? Even in medieval times, there were people who hunted for sport. Kiragi isn't General Zaroff.

The thing about Kiragi is that he doesn't ''just'' hurt animals for sport but he's extremely giddy about killing animals and sometimes even humans as well. He does it all with exited boasts and a big grin on his face.

I like Kiragi but its hard to shake the feeling he's a little psycho. I'm surprised no support actually got into detail about that.

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44 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

People hate Corrin because the story bends over backwards to avoid presenting his flaws as bad things, presumably for the sake of player pandering/not hurting the player's feelings.  They are supposed to be the player's self-insert, after all.

Really, every Avatar's problems can be traced back to them being a player self-insert.  Even Mark and Kiran, the most benign of them all, exist for the primary purpose of making the player feel more important than they actually are.

Then why are the other Royals and Azura so well-liked?

27 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The thing about Kiragi is that he doesn't ''just'' hurt animals for sport but he's extremely giddy about killing animals and sometimes even humans as well. He does it all with exited boasts and a big grin on his face.

I like Kiragi but its hard to shake the feeling he's a little psycho. I'm surprised no support actually got into detail about that.

And this is exactly why I hate him so much.
As for the support thing: when did the Royals or their children ever have their flaws pointed out to them and the other person still came across as positive?
In Fates, the first rule is: as long as you're a member of the Nohrian / Hoshidan Royal family or your name is Azura, you're getting away with everything. This is true both in game as well as in the community, to an extent.
The second rule of Fates is: if you're not a member of the Nohrian / Hoshidan Royal family, you will either exist only to lick their boots or be ignored forever and ever.

Edited by DragonFlames

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45 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Then why are the other Royals and Azura so well-liked?

And this is exactly why I hate him so much.
As for the support thing: when did the Royals or their children ever have their flaws pointed out to them and the other person still came across as positive?
In Fates, the first rule is: as long as you're a member of the Nohrian / Hoshidan Royal family or your name is Azura, you're getting away with everything. This is true both in game as well as in the community, to an extent.
The second rule of Fates is: if you're not a member of the Nohrian / Hoshidan Royal family, you will either exist only to lick their boots or be ignored forever and ever.

Not true. Azura, Xander, Camilla tend to get a lot of criticism from the community.

Edited by Hekselka

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NO MORE WAIFU SIMULATOR. Supports are fine but literally all of Awakenin/Fates is marrying your characters off. I don’t mind the marriage system, in fact Genealogy managed it beautifully, but when your tactical fantasy RPG becomes what Fire Emblem is now...AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

I don’t hate the marriage system, I just don’t li,e what it’s become.

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13 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Not true. Azura, Xander, Camilla tend to get a lot of criticism from the community.

Okay, I see Xander and Camilla, but Azura, too? Where? Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, but I haven't seen anyone beside myself criticising Azura.
If so, I am happy to be proven (partly) wrong, yet again, especially when it comes to negative stuff like this.

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2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

2. They actually toned down the anime asthetic for Awakening and Fates and brought it back for Echoes. Have you SEEN GBA and GC / Wii Fire Emblem? Imo, they should have the artist for Echoes design every character from now on.

There is no singular anime aesthetic, they are many and vary over time. If to criticize Tellius for instance you look to eyes the size of dinner plates on certain characters, the handful of bad armor designs of Awakening and Fates can also be criticized on anime grounds. The ridiculous hairdos of FE4 are also period anime-ness.

 

Just now, DragonFlames said:

Okay, I see Xander and Camilla, but Azura, too? Where? Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, but I haven't seen anyone beside myself criticising Azura.
If so, I am happy to be proven (partly) wrong, yet again, especially when it comes to negative stuff like this.

I think I've heard her big issue is IS was trying manufacture the second Lucina, but failed. She is mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, not for a good reason, she is often emotionless. And of course for no good reason avoids mentioning Valla and Anankos on Birthright and Conquest, even though killing Anankos is the best thing to do, and she suggest the throne gambit in Conquest. Her outfit gets some minor dislikes as well.

 

Also, don't mean to shove it at you, but did you happen to notice my little historical hunting numbers on the prior page? Not to say they justify Kiragi (I have no attachment to him), only to provide a little historical context.

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27 minutes ago, Will Bill said:

NO MORE WAIFU SIMULATOR. Supports are fine but literally all of Awakenin/Fates is marrying your characters off. I don’t mind the marriage system, in fact Genealogy managed it beautifully, but when your tactical fantasy RPG becomes what Fire Emblem is now...AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

I don’t hate the marriage system, I just don’t li,e what it’s become.

I would disagree with the bolded - you're only given vague messages by the fortune teller, the love system is barely explained, if it is at all, and there's also the matter of accidentally marrying units that you didn't want to marry. That's the exact opposite of "managing it beautifully", if you ask me. At least Awakening and Fates put the choice of who marries whom entirely in my hands.

On 2/10/2018 at 11:21 PM, Slumber said:

If it was a physical unit that gained staves, it might have worked a bit better, but as a magic/staff healer that gained axes? It was a bit wonky, and I can't say I ever kept Libra as a War Monk, and didn't really bother making Lissa one, either.

The thing with Master Knights is that their potency wasn't really dramatically impacted by being hybrid units. For the most part, you could entirely ignore them as magic users(Though there were situations where it'd come in handy) and just keep them as powerful physical units that could also heal on the front lines.

In that regard, I don't think they were good hybrid units. Neither of the Master Knights were anywhere near as effective as magic units as they were as physical units. I think they were better hybrid units than most, purely since you didn't really need a particularly good magic stat to deal damage in FE4, but they weren't ideal.

Yeah, I guess that's kinda awkward.

Fair enough.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Then why are the other Royals and Azura so well-liked?

I know i'm gonna sound like a broken record since i remember discussing these with you but people like the Support versions of the Royals, Azura, and Corrin (to an extent). I love Azura but her Story version sucks. Her Support version is where she truly shines. Same goes for the Royals. Azura's also got Lost in Thoughts All Alone, which is a song a lot of people like.

That said, as others have mentioned above, Azura and the Royals do get their fare share of criticism, regardless of whether it's Story or Support.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The thing about Kiragi is that he doesn't ''just'' hurt animals for sport but he's extremely giddy about killing animals and sometimes even humans as well. He does it all with exited boasts and a big grin on his face.

Just wondering, is Kiragi like that in the Japanese version? Not to hate on the localization or anything but i do know some characters were changed between versions (I remember hearing how Effie in the Japanese version is more than just wanting to get strong and eat a lot). Did Kiragi go similar changes?

 

Edited by Armagon

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2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The thing about Kiragi is that he doesn't ''just'' hurt animals for sport but he's extremely giddy about killing animals and sometimes even humans as well. He does it all with exited boasts and a big grin on his face.

I like Kiragi but its hard to shake the feeling he's a little psycho. I'm surprised no support actually got into detail about that.

Reminds me of the Rolf-Mist, which actually kinda addressed the same issue:

Spoiler

C Support

Mist: Rolf! Oh, there you are!
Rolf: Mist! Were you looking for me?
Mist: Yes. I’ve been meaning to talk to you. We haven’t had a chance to talk since that day we fought for the first time.
Rolf: I’m glad you’re safe… Somehow, we’re both still alive.
Mist: Yes…we’ve been so lucky.
Rolf: My heart was pounding and my hands were shaking so badly that I almost shot an arrow into Boyd’s backside.
Mist: Tee hee! Good thing you didn’t, or he would have given you a smacking! I was so…scared. I heard yelling… screaming…and the most awful howls of agony. I felt dizzy and sick.
Rolf: I wasn’t scared at all. Maybe I was a little nervous… But by the end, I was almost hitting my targets!
Mist: You weren’t even a little scared?
Rolf: No way. I can’t wait for the next battle. I’ll fight better next time. You’ll see. I’ll feather a horde of slobbering enemies! See you later, Mist. I’ve got to go practice!
Mist: Oh, Rolf! Rolf…

B Support

Rolf: Aim…and release!
Mist: Can I talk to you for a moment, Rolf?
Rolf: Sure. Just hold on and let me tighten my bowstring. I’ve got to be ready… You know, just in case some Daein thugs try to jump us.
Mist: …
Rolf: So…what do you need, Mist?
Mist: Let’s not fight in any more battles, Rolf. I really don’t think we children should be fighting in this war.
Rolf: Huh? Why are you saying this now?
Mist: Let’s go back to being kids. If this is what it’s like to be an adult, I don’t want any part of it.
Rolf: You’re right, Mist. Fighting scares you. You don’t have to fight. Don’t worry… I’ll fight for you!
Mist: That’s not what I meant, and you know it! You’ve got to stop fighting, or it’s all meaningless.
Rolf: I can’t do that. I have to slay our enemies and defend our own. I’m a man, now…
Mist: Slay your enemies? Is it that meaningless to you? Like picking a flower or squishing a spider. They’re human, too.
Rolf: …
Mist: Do you understand that, Rolf? The enemy… They’re human, just like us. They’re not paper targets pinned to a tree.
Rolf: I don’t want to hear it.
Mist: Rolf!
Rolf: I don’t want to hear it!! Got it?! They’re trying to hurt us! Kill us! I’m just stopping them. I’m protecting all of you.
Mist: Wait… Rolf! Oh… Please understand…

A Support

Mist: Rolf.
Rolf: …
Mist: Stop ignoring me! Can we please talk? Please?
Rolf: …
Mist: I don’t blame you. I just wanted you to know that… Not everyone we run into is evil. Some of them might just be caught up on the wrong side.
Rolf: So I wasn’t thinking about that? Is that what you mean?
Mist: What? No…
Rolf: We’re not fighting targets. I know the difference. Targets don’t squirm on the ground and gurgle in pain. Targets don’t make the grass slippery with blood. I learned that lesson the first time I took a man down. They’re fighters, just like us.
Mist: Rolf…
Rolf: But there’s a difference. They’re trying to hurt the people I love. Anyone that tries that is an enemy of mine. That’s why I won’t hesitate to feather them. If I let even one of them live, they will do everything they can to kill one of our own. I… I’m afraid of that. I won’t stop spilling blood until it’s over.
Mist: Rolf!
Rolf: I don’t want you to die! I… I… I don’t want to lose anyone else… … Whaaaa…
Mist: I’m sorry, Rolf! I’m so sorry…
Rolf: Whaaaaaaaaa… …Sniff… Sniff…
Mist: I thought you had changed. You used to be such a sweet boy. I thought you’d turned hard and didn’t understand about death. I’m sorry…I didn’t understand how you felt. You’ve been so desperate to protect everyone else.
Rolf: This will be over one day. I just want everyone to see that day.
Mist: Me, too, Rolf. Me, too…

Very well might I add.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is no singular anime aesthetic, they are many and vary over time. If to criticize Tellius for instance you look to eyes the size of dinner plates on certain characters, the handful of bad armor designs of Awakening and Fates can also be criticized on anime grounds. The ridiculous hairdos of FE4 are also period anime-ness.

 

I think I've heard her big issue is IS was trying manufacture the second Lucina, but failed. She is mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, not for a good reason, she is often emotionless. And of course for no good reason avoids mentioning Valla and Anankos on Birthright and Conquest, even though killing Anankos is the best thing to do, and she suggest the throne gambit in Conquest. Her outfit gets some minor dislikes as well.

 

Also, don't mean to shove it at you, but did you happen to notice my little historical hunting numbers on the prior page? Not to say they justify Kiragi (I have no attachment to him), only to provide a little historical context.

I didn't mean to insult the art-style of the Tellius or GBA games. In fact, I LOVE the artstyle in those games. I just worded that badly. What I meant to convey is that the older and Echoes' artstyles are more stereotypical for anime than Awakening and Fates as far as overall character design goes.

The issues with Azura you named are all part of why I dislike her, actually.

Yes, I have seen that. I just didn't have anything to say, except maybe repeat the ol' "Disgusting" meme, since that is what it ultimately comes down to as far as my feelings toward that particular subject go.
It was a really interesting tidbit of information I have not been aware of despite studiying history at university for two years.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I know i'm gonna sound like a broken record since i remember discussing these with you but people like the Support versions of the Royals, Azura, and Corrin (to an extent). I love Azura but her Story version sucks. Her Support version is where she truly shines. Same goes for the Royals. Azura's also got Lost in Thoughts All Alone, which is a song a lot of people like.

That said, as others have mentioned above, Azura and the Royals do get their fare share of criticism, regardless of whether it's Story or Support.

Lost in Tho(ugh)ts All Alone is so over-used that my ears figuratively start bleeding whenever I hear it. I never liked that song much to begin with, honestly.
As far as the Royals and her go... eh. Different strokes for different folks. I'll probably never get the appeal of these characters in particular. Maybe I'm just sick of everything being about them and nothing else. Even in Warriors, the other characters seem to get sidelined in their favour.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

The only Royals people seem to dislike openly are Sakura and Elise, as far as I have seen at least, mostly on the basis of them being lolis (which Sakura arguably isn't). Ironically, these two are the only Royals I like.

59 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reminds me of the Rolf-Mist, which actually kinda addressed the same issue:

  Reveal hidden contents

C Support

Mist: Rolf! Oh, there you are!
Rolf: Mist! Were you looking for me?
Mist: Yes. I’ve been meaning to talk to you. We haven’t had a chance to talk since that day we fought for the first time.
Rolf: I’m glad you’re safe… Somehow, we’re both still alive.
Mist: Yes…we’ve been so lucky.
Rolf: My heart was pounding and my hands were shaking so badly that I almost shot an arrow into Boyd’s backside.
Mist: Tee hee! Good thing you didn’t, or he would have given you a smacking! I was so…scared. I heard yelling… screaming…and the most awful howls of agony. I felt dizzy and sick.
Rolf: I wasn’t scared at all. Maybe I was a little nervous… But by the end, I was almost hitting my targets!
Mist: You weren’t even a little scared?
Rolf: No way. I can’t wait for the next battle. I’ll fight better next time. You’ll see. I’ll feather a horde of slobbering enemies! See you later, Mist. I’ve got to go practice!
Mist: Oh, Rolf! Rolf…

B Support

Rolf: Aim…and release!
Mist: Can I talk to you for a moment, Rolf?
Rolf: Sure. Just hold on and let me tighten my bowstring. I’ve got to be ready… You know, just in case some Daein thugs try to jump us.
Mist: …
Rolf: So…what do you need, Mist?
Mist: Let’s not fight in any more battles, Rolf. I really don’t think we children should be fighting in this war.
Rolf: Huh? Why are you saying this now?
Mist: Let’s go back to being kids. If this is what it’s like to be an adult, I don’t want any part of it.
Rolf: You’re right, Mist. Fighting scares you. You don’t have to fight. Don’t worry… I’ll fight for you!
Mist: That’s not what I meant, and you know it! You’ve got to stop fighting, or it’s all meaningless.
Rolf: I can’t do that. I have to slay our enemies and defend our own. I’m a man, now…
Mist: Slay your enemies? Is it that meaningless to you? Like picking a flower or squishing a spider. They’re human, too.
Rolf: …
Mist: Do you understand that, Rolf? The enemy… They’re human, just like us. They’re not paper targets pinned to a tree.
Rolf: I don’t want to hear it.
Mist: Rolf!
Rolf: I don’t want to hear it!! Got it?! They’re trying to hurt us! Kill us! I’m just stopping them. I’m protecting all of you.
Mist: Wait… Rolf! Oh… Please understand…

A Support

Mist: Rolf.
Rolf: …
Mist: Stop ignoring me! Can we please talk? Please?
Rolf: …
Mist: I don’t blame you. I just wanted you to know that… Not everyone we run into is evil. Some of them might just be caught up on the wrong side.
Rolf: So I wasn’t thinking about that? Is that what you mean?
Mist: What? No…
Rolf: We’re not fighting targets. I know the difference. Targets don’t squirm on the ground and gurgle in pain. Targets don’t make the grass slippery with blood. I learned that lesson the first time I took a man down. They’re fighters, just like us.
Mist: Rolf…
Rolf: But there’s a difference. They’re trying to hurt the people I love. Anyone that tries that is an enemy of mine. That’s why I won’t hesitate to feather them. If I let even one of them live, they will do everything they can to kill one of our own. I… I’m afraid of that. I won’t stop spilling blood until it’s over.
Mist: Rolf!
Rolf: I don’t want you to die! I… I… I don’t want to lose anyone else… … Whaaaa…
Mist: I’m sorry, Rolf! I’m so sorry…
Rolf: Whaaaaaaaaa… …Sniff… Sniff…
Mist: I thought you had changed. You used to be such a sweet boy. I thought you’d turned hard and didn’t understand about death. I’m sorry…I didn’t understand how you felt. You’ve been so desperate to protect everyone else.
Rolf: This will be over one day. I just want everyone to see that day.
Mist: Me, too, Rolf. Me, too…

Very well might I add.

Another reason for me to dislike Kiragi, which is one of those things I have set as my personal criteria for disliking things: It's been done before and done better.
... But to be honest, I didn't really care all that much about Rolf to begin with, either, so me disliking Kiragi on that fact alone was pretty much a given.

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2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Okay, I see Xander and Camilla, but Azura, too? Where? Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, but I haven't seen anyone beside myself criticising Azura.
If so, I am happy to be proven (partly) wrong, yet again, especially when it comes to negative stuff like this.

/v/, SF and Reddit are places where I saw people disliking Azura. From calling her a walking plot device to calling her an idiot for some of her actions in the story. She definitely isn't the second Lucina IS hoped she would be.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is no singular anime aesthetic, they are many and vary over time. If to criticize Tellius for instance you look to eyes the size of dinner plates on certain characters, the handful of bad armor designs of Awakening and Fates can also be criticized on anime grounds. The ridiculous hairdos of FE4 are also period anime-ness.

I don't think that people dislike the anime look but that some people dislike the modern anime look. What I mean is, when I look at the older FE games (GBA and SNES) art the first anime that comes to mind is Record of The Lodoss war or at least an anime that looks like that. When you show me Awakening/Fates art the first thing that comes to mind is Sword Art Online. Maybe I'm wrong and my inner anime viewer is just speaking up but it's something I've always thought about.

13 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

The only Royals people seem to dislike openly are Sakura and Elise, as far as I have seen at least, mostly on the basis of them being lolis (which Sakura arguably isn't). Ironically, these two are the only Royals I like.

I also like Elise. Hell, she's probably my favorite troubadour in the series. 

Edited by Hekselka

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15 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

The only Royals people seem to dislike openly are Sakura and Elise, as far as I have seen at least, mostly on the basis of them being lolis (which Sakura arguably isn't). Ironically, these two are the only Royals I like.

Maybe I've not been to the places you've been, but I generally don't see much in the way of dislike for either. Incidentally, I like both of them.

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