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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

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4 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Other's have already brought up the time and resource cost, which always has and always will be a significant factor no matter the industry. I don't have much to add there.

I do have mixed feelings on the quality vs quantity argument in regards to Awakening and Echoes, though. For the former, while I do believe that the quality is impressive considering the quantity, you can tell that the latter did affect the former at points. And while I also agree that the good outnumbers the bad, it's difficult to tell what the ratio of that is. For instance, there are only two or three of the entirety of Stahl and Panne's supports that I'm not fond of, while there are a handful of Laurent's I dislike, despite him being tied for my favorite character in Awakening personality-wise. Although I think many of Kellams supports are good, I do find it common that they don't go as far as they could have in turning a great support into an amazing one. And this isn't even getting into S-supports. Pretty much, it's easy to judge an individual characters support quality, but not so much for the entire game.

Meanwhile, Echoes smaller cast didn't immediately make every supports amazing. If anything, they just made it more obvious which conversations were lackluster and forgettable and which ones were excellent. The lower quantity did not immediately mean raised quality. Shadows of Valentia may not be the best example of this, though, simply other factors are present (voice acting means they don't have much ability to fix anything after the lines were recorded unless they have money to spare. The game benefits from the support mechanics, but it wasn't built with it in mind originally, so even having the traditional 5 limit would mean that they either be too powerful in SoV or they would have to be significantly nerfed to the point where individual rankings would be almost unnoticeable. The presence of base conversations and having to talk to every character to recruit them helps ensure everyone can have their personality show in some way, thus making supports not as important as they can be in the other games, etc.) but it does show that this is not so simple a matter.

Really what I was trying to get at is that a character getting more supports can only really good thing if they're a complex enough character. If a good writer has a good character, they can make dozens upon dozens of good supports. Obviously there is a limit and time constraints can and will be factor but overall a character having a lot supports is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if the character is one-dimensional and shallow meaning more supports will only exacerbate the issue because with such a one dimensional character there are only so many interactions you can write for them but even then in the hands of a good writer these supports can be used to give them more depth. The reason a lot of echoes supports are boring(at least to me) is the characters themselves are boring. You cannot have interesting character interaction with uninteresting characters. Like I said good characters will lead to good supports. bad characters will lead to bad supports. 

I mean haven't ever had that sort of lingering feeling of "I wish x character could support with y character"? That's basically the idea I'm getting at. 

Edited by Ottservia

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Really what I was trying to get at is that a character getting more supports can only really good thing if they're a complex enough character. If a good writer has a good character, they can make dozens upon dozens of good supports. Obviously there is a limit and time constraints can and will be factor but overall a character having a lot supports is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if the character is one-dimensional and shallow meaning more supports will only exacerbate the issue because with such a one dimensional character there are only so many interactions you can write for them but even then in the hands of a good writer these supports can be used to give them more depth. The reason a lot of echoes supports are boring(at least to me) is the characters themselves are boring. You cannot have interesting character interaction with uninteresting characters. Like I said good characters will lead to good supports. bad characters will lead to bad supports. 

I mean haven't ever had that sort of lingering feeling of "I wish x character could support with y character"? That's basically the idea I'm getting at. 

I definitely have. For some reason, I wanted Colm to have a support with Eirika; the sincere thief supporting the sincere princess. Or Ross, my favorite trainee having an aspiring warrior to warrior talk with my favorite lord Ephraim. 

I still dont know what the hell IS was thinking with not allowing a Cordelia x Chrom conversation. 

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7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I mean haven't ever had that sort of lingering feeling of "I wish x character could support with y character"? That's basically the idea I'm getting at. 

The only notable case in my experience is Raven and Hector. I honestly feel like that support chain is a no-brainer, and it just doesn't happen.

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On 3/26/2019 at 11:04 PM, Martin said:

I definitely have. For some reason, I wanted Colm to have a support with Eirika; the sincere thief supporting the sincere princess. Or Ross, my favorite trainee having an aspiring warrior to warrior talk with my favorite lord Ephraim. 

I still dont know what the hell IS was thinking with not allowing a Cordelia x Chrom conversation. 

Honestly, I could see nearly any Sacred Stones characters supporting with each other. I would have loved to see Amelia supporting with the Renais twins though, as her prior misconceptions about them would have made for excellent conversation fodder. 


I'm not sure how unpopular or not this opinion is, but I'd like to see some multi-person supports/optional conversations, like the ones for Boyd/Rolf/Oscar in the Tellius games. They don't have to be romantic or romance related (altho some poly representation would be cool I suppose), just three people talking (The trainee trio of Sacred Stones would be great for it, as would the various pegasis trios). 

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On 3/26/2019 at 11:04 PM, Martin said:

I still dont know what the hell IS was thinking with not allowing a Cordelia x Chrom conversation.

I think this is actually a really good example for characterization, at least to a certain extent. Cordelia idolizes Chrom, worships him, but that also means she places him on an incredibly high pedestal. She's got the mindset of "He's so amazing, why would he ever talk to a nobody like me", so just avoids him, watching and loving him from afar. She's so intimidated by her own hyping up of Chrom that she just doesn't try. It's sad in a way. Although they totally should've had a support line in Warriors, that was a payoff to five-ish years of one-sided emotional tension waiting to happen.

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:19 PM, Martin said:

I guess. I don't remember my play through Echoes a lot, but I remember just being bored wasting several turns trying traverse a relatively empty desert after the mages or so have been taken care of and I almost pulled my hair out trying moving the knights. If they sent more flying units or something that may reinforce at the base of the map, I'd probably be more interested in the battle itself. Although, I do remember taking careful consideration of how to place my units when fighting Deen do the desert and that indeed was a fun battle. 

Don't blame you in the slightest for finding it boring. I was engaged enough with planning who to heal, who Leon should attack, how to move my other units forward, and so on, that each turn was interesting. However, I can also easily see how some people can find the desert levels boring.

Glad to see another person found fighting Dean to be fun! He really is underrated as a boss.

On 3/26/2019 at 8:19 PM, Martin said:

[I've figured out how to make multiple quotes! Yaaay!!] Idk, man... The fact that troubadour Effie exists tells me that usually, devs at IS don't really consider the personalities of the characters when fleshing out how they function during game play.  What you said is not at all wrong and I agree completely. I always day dreamed about how cool it would be if we had a thief that used to be a knight, which explains his good combat stats and the ability to re-class to a cavalier WITH the lance exp already at a higher rank or something.

The idea about the thief would be cool to see. A lot of the reclass options actually have clever reasoning's behind them in the 3DS games, but that idea sounds like it would take it to the next level.

Building onto what I said originally, I'd like to see more animations for defending beside "unit tanks attack" or "reacts to getting hurt". Things like characters rolling with the hit to minimize damage, or snapping dislocated bones into place. It would be a lot more work, to be sure, but I think it would be worth the trouble.

On 3/26/2019 at 9:10 PM, Ottservia said:

Really what I was trying to get at is that a character getting more supports can only really good thing if they're a complex enough character. If a good writer has a good character, they can make dozens upon dozens of good supports. Obviously there is a limit and time constraints can and will be factor but overall a character having a lot supports is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if the character is one-dimensional and shallow meaning more supports will only exacerbate the issue because with such a one dimensional character there are only so many interactions you can write for them but even then in the hands of a good writer these supports can be used to give them more depth. The reason a lot of echoes supports are boring(at least to me) is the characters themselves are boring. You cannot have interesting character interaction with uninteresting characters. Like I said good characters will lead to good supports. bad characters will lead to bad supports. 

Yet good characters can have bad days, and bad ones have hidden gems. And it is possible to spread that "goodness" too thin, meaning that the quality is not as strong as it could otherwise be.

I understand the point that you're trying to make. After all, seeing beloved characters bounce off each other once again is why some people don't always mind sequels. However, there is a reason "too much of a good thing" is a saying, as well as why the "quality vs quantity" argument exists in the first place.

On 3/26/2019 at 9:10 PM, Ottservia said:

I mean haven't ever had that sort of lingering feeling of "I wish x character could support with y character"? That's basically the idea I'm getting at. 

A few times. I tend to want to see them more for gameplay rather than story reasons, though, and I understand why some don't happen. For instance, I question why Sumia can't support with Stahl or Kellam, as I found their classes to work very well with pegasus knights and would help improve Sumia's often poor strength and defense. Not to mention that, given their personalities, the characters could bounce off each other really well in supports.

However, I don't complain about the lack certain supports in Echoes because, as neat as they would be to see, Gaiden/Echoes was not designed around each character having a large amount of C-B-A supports. If the game had the "everyone supports with everyone" system, or even the 5-support limit, then either the support bonuses would break the game, or the individual supports would be less powerful, raising the question of what the point would be. I also find that having to speak to each character to recruit them, along with base conversations, tended to make up for the lack of supports. Not always, but I personally think they do for the most part.

That doesn't mean that there aren't some supports I want to see just for characters interacting. I thought that Kamui could have talked with Valbar and/or Jesse, for both gameplay and story reasons, and Genny only having a support with a mutually exclusive character is a slip up I don't understand how they made. Having Alm and Celica converse in the post game would be a nice bonus for continuing on with the game, as well as a way to maybe mend a few issues with the main story, such as Celica showing she learned from her mistake, and Alm discussing his thoughts on the recent turn of events, and how things changed outside of their control.

At the same time, I also know that some supports didn't/can't happen for story reasons. As much as I think Miriel and Chrom could work well together gameplaywise, I know that if the pairing were allowed, it would mean that Lucina and Laurent would have to have an entirely unique sibling conversation because of their age difference needing to be adressed. Granted, that's the entire reason I wish the pairing were a thing, but I understand that that would take time and effort when a basic formula for those supports would save on both. Similarrly, as much as I think Panne could make a good parent statwise for Lucina, Chrom marrying a dying race of shapeshifters would probably not be the best choice considering that Ylisse just got finished with a war and had their former ruler die in the conflict.

18 hours ago, FRZNHeir said:

I'm not sure how unpopular or not this opinion is, but I'd like to see some multi-person supports/optional conversations, like the ones for Boyd/Rolf/Oscar in the Tellius games. They don't have to be romantic or romance related (altho some poly representation would be cool I suppose), just three people talking (The trainee trio of Sacred Stones would be great for it, as would the various pegasis trios). 

Very much agreed. I was wishing there was a Stahl-Kellam-Donnel support in Awakening, considering that they each support with each other., along with Valbar-Leon-Kamui considering that I enjoyed the sadly minimal time they bickered with each other. A similar mechanic to supports exists in Blustone, and they have a few three-way conversations, and they're pretty enjoyable and varied.

I don't really see how they can be romantic without falling into love triangle crap. Or why any would need to be romantic in the first place, considering the wide variety of topics a three way conversation could be about.

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2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Yet good characters can have bad days, and bad ones have hidden gems. And it is possible to spread that "goodness" too thin, meaning that the quality is not as strong as it could otherwise be.

I did say there was a limit didn't I? cause obviously with any character there is going to be a limit to the amount of character interactions that even Gen Urobuchi can produce. I'm not saying you can write an unlimited amount of supports. I'm just saying more character interaction can only be a good thing when it comes to character development. Quantity has extremely little to do with a support's writing quality. that is what I'm trying to say doesn't matter if it's 15 or 3 supports a bad character/writer will make bad supports. The same is true for the opposite. A good writer/character will generate good supports whether it be 5 supports or 20 supports. The quantity barely has anything to do with the quality. It's only a problem if:

A. the character is one-dimesional and boring/obnoxious

B. when under heavy time constraints.

Really my whole point is about when people say "Everyone shouldn't support everyone cause that would lead to poor supports" which I believe to be wholly untrue. In fact the opposite is actually better. More supports will only lead to more character interaction which can only be a benefit as far as characterization and character development is concerned. Gameplay I'll grant is another matter entirely. Balancing support bonuses around a large amount of supports can be difficult and that is a perfectly valid reason to not have a whole lot of supports. However, I'm talking about writing quality exclusively here. Character interaction is by and large the best form of characterization meaning more of it can really only be a good thing and I don't see why limiting it would be better in terms of writing quality. In fact it's worse. Echoes/fates do not have bad supports because they have too little/many. They have bad supports because they have bad supports/characters/writers. It's not a matter of quantity that determines a supports' quality. It's almost exclusively a quality problem.

3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

At the same time, I also know that some supports didn't/can't happen for story reasons. As much as I think Miriel and Chrom could work well together gameplaywise, I know that if the pairing were allowed, it would mean that Lucina and Laurent would have to have an entirely unique sibling conversation because of their age difference needing to be adressed. Granted, that's the entire reason I wish the pairing were a thing, but I understand that that would take time and effort when a basic formula for those supports would save on both. Similarrly, as much as I think Panne could make a good parent statwise for Lucina, Chrom marrying a dying race of shapeshifters would probably not be the best choice considering that Ylisse just got finished with a war and had their former ruler die in the conflict.

I will concede that that is the main problem with how each and every support must end in marriage cause it leads to situations like this. S-supports do somewhat affect the quality of a support chain cause y'know they kinda have to be intimate in the end for it to work and that just leads to a lot very awkward scenarios.

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6 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I did say there was a limit didn't I? cause obviously with any character there is going to be a limit to the amount of character interactions that even Gen Urobuchi can produce. I'm not saying you can write an unlimited amount of supports. I'm just saying more character interaction can only be a good thing when it comes to character development. Quantity has extremely little to do with a support's writing quality. that is what I'm trying to say doesn't matter if it's 15 or 3 supports a bad character/writer will make bad supports. The same is true for the opposite. A good writer/character will generate good supports whether it be 5 supports or 20 supports.

To that, I will admit that I would be better to judge that if I had access to the earlier games and more time to read Awakenings supports to compare and contrast the two. While I do believe that the problems they have are the same, and Awakening just makes them more obvious, I cannot really make an informed argument if fewer supports really did improve the quality  of them in the previous games.

The most I can say is that, as I mentioned earlier, being a good character does not automatically mean that all their supports will be good. In fact, I found that of the supports I dislike in both Awakening and Echoes, it wasn't because two bad characters were interacting with each other, but instead that the conversations did not make good use of their potential interactions.

For example, Laurent and Nah (although I don't know enough about her to really determine if she's a good or bad character, but bear with me) are two people who are trying to be more mature than there age suggest. Instead, it's wasted on a tasteless paedo joke. Similarly, both Gray and Tobin and Tobin and Kliff, all three solid, if not good, characters, waste their C supports on some rather pointless dialogue before saying things more substantial in their next ones. Kamui and Leons may have been better if they downplayed the gay joke, and so on. I'd probably list more if I weren't tired and was in the mood to look up several dozen support conversations, but you get the idea.

And you could make the argument in reverse, that a bad character could converse with another bad character and turn out to produce a hidden gem. In the end, it's really dependent on the writer for the support that determines whether it is "good" or "bad". You could also make the argument that a good character will have more solid gems than crap, and bad characters the opposite, yet that also has snags. I suppose the lesson to get here is that there are several aspects that go into the quality of writing.

14 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Character interaction is by and large the best form of characterization meaning more of it can really only be a good thing and I don't see why limiting it would be better in terms of writing quality. In fact it's worse. Echoes/fates do not have bad supports because they have too little/many. They have bad supports because they have bad supports/characters/writers. It's not a matter of quantity that determines a supports' quality. It's almost exclusively a quality problem.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Echoes supports. I greatly enjoy the characters from that game for how down-to-earth they are, serve as a nice contrast to the quirkier characters in the series, and for being pretty likable overall. I also think that the base and recruitment conversations made up for where the supports lacked, even if not all of them were winners.

I do agree, however, that the lower quantity did not make for higher quality in that game. If anything, the quality was consistent with past games; It was just easier to find both the good and the bad supports, whereas that requires some searching in the previous titles.

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I will concede that that is the main problem with how each and every support must end in marriage cause it leads to situations like this. S-supports do somewhat affect the quality of a support chain cause y'know they kinda have to be intimate in the end for it to work and that just leads to a lot very awkward scenarios.

Very much agreed. It's too the point that I treat S-Supports entirely different from C-B-A supports when discussing quality, as it's all over the place for the former. It doesn't help that they're inheritable subjective, so what might be a believable romance to you might not for me, and vice versa. This pretty much makes it impossible to really nail down their overall quality.

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31 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

To that, I will admit that I would be better to judge that if I had access to the earlier games and more time to read Awakenings supports to compare and contrast the two. While I do believe that the problems they have are the same, and Awakening just makes them more obvious, I cannot really make an informed argument if fewer supports really did improve the quality  of them in the previous games.

The most I can say is that, as I mentioned earlier, being a good character does not automatically mean that all their supports will be good. In fact, I found that of the supports I dislike in both Awakening and Echoes, it wasn't because two bad characters were interacting with each other, but instead that the conversations did not make good use of their potential interactions.

For example, Laurent and Nah (although I don't know enough about her to really determine if she's a good or bad character, but bear with me) are two people who are trying to be more mature than there age suggest. Instead, it's wasted on a tasteless paedo joke. Similarly, both Gray and Tobin and Tobin and Kliff, all three solid, if not good, characters, waste their C supports on some rather pointless dialogue before saying things more substantial in their next ones. Kamui and Leons may have been better if they downplayed the gay joke, and so on. I'd probably list more if I weren't tired and was in the mood to look up several dozen support conversations, but you get the idea.

And you could make the argument in reverse, that a bad character could converse with another bad character and turn out to produce a hidden gem. In the end, it's really dependent on the writer for the support that determines whether it is "good" or "bad". You could also make the argument that a good character will have more solid gems than crap, and bad characters the opposite, yet that also has snags. I suppose the lesson to get here is that there are several aspects that go into the quality of writing.

Agreed. I suppose good writer should've been more emphasized in my argument. Cause a good writer can use supports as an opportunity to add more depth to a character while a bad writer will just squander that opportunity.

31 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Echoes supports. I greatly enjoy the characters from that game for how down-to-earth they are, serve as a nice contrast to the quirkier characters in the series, and for being pretty likable overall. I also think that the base and recruitment conversations made up for where the supports lacked, even if not all of them were winners.

I do agree, however, that the lower quantity did not make for higher quality in that game. If anything, the quality was consistent with past games; It was just easier to find both the good and the bad supports, whereas that requires some searching in the previous titles.

I suppose so. I mean that's not to say there aren't good supports in echoes(PythonxClive, PythonxLukas, DeltheaXLuthier, DeltheaxClair(though I feel this support could've had more fluff to it), and LeonxValbar) I just feel the majority of them lack any kind of substance and nuance. Tobin is by far the perfect example of what I mean. If you know me at all, I love a good character with self-esteem issues(I mean if my love for Severa is anything to go by) but my problem with it is that we never really see how that inferiority complex affects him in any meaningful way aside from maybe a few voice clips here and there and a base conversation that only serves to make Alm look even cooler(as if he wasn't already enough of a light novel protagonist). I mean the complex doesn't manifest itself in his personality or the way he acts. It's kind of shown in his Gray support but it is far too subdued to really have bear any real weight on his character as a whole. Again, I just feel it lacks nuance. 

To take a minute to gush about my favorite tsundere girl, Severa has an inferiority complex and it shows big time. In a lot of her supports we see how that complex affects her personality and how she interacts with people. She bullies Cynthia to try and artificially inflate her own ego, She's highly competitive with other people, She's always yelling at people to not waste their natural talents, etc. Her inferiority complex also goes so far as to influence her world view if her supports with F!Robin and Laurent are anything to go by.  There's nuance here. We can clearly how this one inferiority complex has manifested itself into creating this character in a variety of ways. Yeah sure it's all on her acting abrasive but there's a degree of depth there because in one of those it also shows her more caring side(her critical nature is about not wanting to needlessly worry about them). I could go on all day about why I think Severa is a fantastically written character but I think you get the point.

I just feel Echoes characters could've used a little more nuance is all.

Edited by Ottservia

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10 hours ago, Ottservia said:

To take a minute to gush about my favorite tsundere girl, Severa has an inferiority complex and it shows big time. In a lot of her supports we see how that complex affects her personality and how she interacts with people. She bullies Cynthia to try and artificially inflate her own ego, She's highly competitive with other people, She's always yelling at people to not waste their natural talents, etc. Her inferiority complex also goes so far as to influence her world view if her supports with F!Robin and Laurent are anything to go by.  There's nuance here. We can clearly how this one inferiority complex has manifested itself into creating this character in a variety of ways. Yeah sure it's all on her acting abrasive but there's a degree of depth there because in one of those it also shows her more caring side(her critical nature is about not wanting to needlessly worry about them). I could go on all day about why I think Severa is a fantastically written character but I think you get the point.

I actually think this is a good example of how a well-written character does not always mean an automatically enjoyable one. I agree with you that there is nuance behind her character, and that there is gold to be found at the end of path of going through her supports. At the same time, her jerkish actions to others, and how you have to deal with a lot of her crap to reach said gold, also explain why some people dislike her character.

There's stuff to like and hate about Severa, and it's not hard to see why people are so divided on her as a character.

10 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I just feel Echoes characters could've used a little more nuance is all.

Don't blame you, and I actually agree to some extent. As I said, I do enjoy the games cast for what it is, yet I can't shake the sense that they could have been so much more. The question I have there is whether that's due to the writers not being the best at their job or because time and money constraints didn't give them much breathing room, or both. Doesn't mean that a rushed game can't have a good story (Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Thief 2 come to mind), but the effects of being rushed are noticeable (again, KOTOR 2 and Thief 2, even if applies more for level design in the latter).

...

Since this response was shorter this time, I have a few things to add:

- Alm really should have spoke his mind more about people assuming he was going to be king, or how he was pretty much handed leadership. Almost every time it comes up, either the game or Alm sidestep the issue. I really wish we got his thoughts on the matter

- Similarly, a post game conversation of some sort where the extent of Alm's new role really sunk in for him, as well as Celica showing that she learned from her mistakes, would have done wonders.

- The sword countering animation from Lugaru needs to appear in a Fire Emblem game (I would have made it a gif, but the website I use seems to hate the video, for some reason).

- Although I don't want it to become common, it would be neat to see at least one Fire Emblem game that had more mythological creatures and events in it.

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19 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I actually think this is a good example of how a well-written character does not always mean an automatically enjoyable one. I agree with you that there is nuance behind her character, and that there is gold to be found at the end of path of going through her supports. At the same time, her jerkish actions to others, and how you have to deal with a lot of her crap to reach said gold, also explain why some people dislike her character.

There's stuff to like and hate about Severa, and it's not hard to see why people are so divided on her as a character.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I love Severa but I can see why people would dislike her cause abrasive characters like that tend to be that way. Personally, I look beyond a lot of surface level abrasiveness and such if there's something more there. if there's more to the story and the character is well written enough to get me to either sympathize with them or least be able to see their side of things. It takes a lot more than an unlikable personality for me to dislike a character but again that's just me. Though I've said this before but one thing that really irks in regards to discussion surrounding Severa's character is when people say she's a "better" character in fates as Selena. Which bothers because if anything she's worse because a lot of the nuances of her character just aren't there anymore. Not like she's a completely different character or anything. It's just for some reason the devs sort of forgot what made her character compelling to begin with. Not to say those nuances are completely absent just that a good number of her fates supports don't really utilize her character to it's fullest potential(and don't get me started on her corrin support because by god that support is awful). I suppose this goes back to my original point of bad writers creating bad supports. Not to say her fates are bad necessarily. I just believe she has better supports in awakening(Though her subaki support is by far her best romance support). It just feels like people think "Likable = well written" which is far from the case and that bothers me. cause there's a difference between a likable character and a well written one. Severa just seems to do both for me. Then again I'm a weird masochistic idiot so who knows.

32 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Don't blame you, and I actually agree to some extent. As I said, I do enjoy the games cast for what it is, yet I can't shake the sense that they could have been so much more. The question I have there is whether that's due to the writers not being the best at their job or because time and money constraints didn't give them much breathing room, or both. Doesn't mean that a rushed game can't have a good story (Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Thief 2 come to mind), but the effects of being rushed are noticeable (again, KOTOR 2 and Thief 2, even if applies more for level design in the latter).

again I agree. I mean it's not like I hate echoes' cast. I just feel like they're very shallow and just all around boring because of that. I like characters that I can sympathize with. I like characters who struggle with a conflict of some kind. Who have depth, nuance, and intrigue that get me care about them and their struggles. A lot of echoes characters just don't do that for me which is a shame cause I do want to like and care for these characters but the game does not really give me any chance to.

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7 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

I actually think this is a good example of how a well-written character does not always mean an automatically enjoyable one. I agree with you that there is nuance behind her character, and that there is gold to be found at the end of path of going through her supports. At the same time, her jerkish actions to others, and how you have to deal with a lot of her crap to reach said gold, also explain why some people dislike her character.

I think that's probably why I don't really like Severa despite thinking she's a good character.

Most tsundere's have reasons for why they act as hostile as they do but for my that's not really the issue. My issue is more if those reasons justify them lashing out against everyone, and usually I conclude that they don't. Severa has her reason to act the way she does but I still think the whole tsundere routine crosses several lines. 

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18 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Most tsundere's have reasons for why they act as hostile as they do

Ehh not really most tsundere characters in anime I see usually are just cliche fetish pandering nonsense without really any depth or nuance to them beyond the fact that they are indeed a tsundere. As common of a trope as it is, not a whole lot of them are well written if you ask me. Like seriously trying to find a well written tsundere in this day and age is like trying to find a needle in a haystack(actually hay in a needle stack is probably a more apt way to describe it)

Severa to me at least is one of few well written ones you’ll find in the cesspool of trash that is this trope. Along the lines of characters like taiga or Rin tohsaka. Great tsunderes all around. 

That said however, the reason I love this trope so much is because if done well it can create some of the most complex, human, and relatable characters I’ve seen and damnit do I love me some angsty sad anime girls. But yeah the trope isn’t for everyone and I get that.

Edited by Ottservia

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, Hawkwing said:

Glad to see another person found fighting Dean to be fun! He really is underrated as a boss.

On 3/26/2019 at 8:19 PM, Martin said:

Fun fact, I actually fought Dean in the hopes of recruiting him afterwards. Obviously, I missed something in the dialogue and got Sonya instead. Huge L on my part. XD

On 3/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, Hawkwing said:

Building onto what I said originally, I'd like to see more animations for defending beside "unit tanks attack" or "reacts to getting hurt". Things like characters rolling with the hit to minimize damage, or snapping dislocated bones into place. It would be a lot more work, to be sure, but I think it would be worth the trouble.

That's definitely a "hell yeah" on my end. It especially bothers me that we have gigantic armored soldiers that don't use their gigantic shields when being attacked except in the cases of "no damage".  There should be levels of getting hurt. I would like to see units use their shields or deflect attacks when taking a small amount of damage. The point of such defensive actions is minimize potential damage, not ONLY when the person is not going to get hurt regardless. 

In the case of infantry units, it would awesome to see those guys get knocked off their feet when taking a huge amount of damage from one attack (besides when they get ko'd.) 

On 3/28/2019 at 2:56 AM, DarthR0xas said:

I think this is actually a really good example for characterization, at least to a certain extent. Cordelia idolizes Chrom, worships him, but that also means she places him on an incredibly high pedestal. She's got the mindset of "He's so amazing, why would he ever talk to a nobody like me", so just avoids him, watching and loving him from afar. She's so intimidated by her own hyping up of Chrom that she just doesn't try. It's sad in a way. Although they totally should've had a support line in Warriors, that was a payoff to five-ish years of one-sided emotional tension waiting to happen.

 That's all well and good, but this setting is not like in real life. Within a fantasy setting, nearly anything should be able to be possible. There are characters that support each other because of outside influences, like with Arthur and Setsuna chatting each other up because of them being assigned to an event that I don't remember. (...Or was that Felicia and Arthur?) ...Either way, that interaction is something that the fanbase would totally be interested in seeing. Just the possibility of Chrom marrying someone else adds to that type of characterization. The support between those two could have easily been about Cordelia getting over her nervousness with him and at least finally accepting him as a close friend to fight with, not a senpai to avoid and admire from as far away as possible.

Edited by Martin
crap. Double posted, thinking that I was editing. That's embarrassing.

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, Hawkwing said:

Glad to see another person found fighting Dean to be fun! He really is underrated as a boss.

On 3/26/2019 at 8:19 PM, Martin said:

Fun fact, I actually fought Dean in the hopes of recruiting him afterwards. Obviously, I missed something in the dialogue and got Sonya instead. Huge L on my part. XD

On 3/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, Hawkwing said:

Building onto what I said originally, I'd like to see more animations for defending beside "unit tanks attack" or "reacts to getting hurt". Things like characters rolling with the hit to minimize damage, or snapping dislocated bones into place. It would be a lot more work, to be sure, but I think it would be worth the trouble.

That's definitely a "hell yeah" on my end. It especially bothers me that we have gigantic armored soldiers that don't use their gigantic shields when being attacked except in the cases of "no damage".  There should be levels of getting hurt. I would like to see units use their shields or deflect attacks when taking a small amount of damage. The point of such defensive actions is minimize potential damage, not ONLY when the person is not going to get hurt regardless. 

In the case of infantry units, it would awesome to see those guys get knocked off their feet when taking a huge amount of damage from one attack (besides when they get ko'd.) 

On 3/28/2019 at 2:56 AM, DarthR0xas said:

I think this is actually a really good example for characterization, at least to a certain extent. Cordelia idolizes Chrom, worships him, but that also means she places him on an incredibly high pedestal. She's got the mindset of "He's so amazing, why would he ever talk to a nobody like me", so just avoids him, watching and loving him from afar. She's so intimidated by her own hyping up of Chrom that she just doesn't try. It's sad in a way. Although they totally should've had a support line in Warriors, that was a payoff to five-ish years of one-sided emotional tension waiting to happen.

 That's all well and good, but this setting is not like in real life. Within a fantasy setting, nearly anything should be able to be possible. There are characters that support each other because of outside influences, like with Arthur and Setsuna chatting each other up because of them being assigned to and event that I don't remember. (...Or was that Falicia and Arthur?) ...Either way, that interaction is something that the fanbase would totally be interested in seeing. Just the possibility of Chrom marrying someone else adds to that type of characterization. The support between those two could have easily been about Cordelia getting over her nervousness with him and at least finally accepting him as a close friend to fight with, not a senpai to avoid. 

8 hours ago, Ottservia said:

again I agree. I mean it's not like I hate echoes' cast. I just feel like they're very shallow and just all around boring because of that. I like characters that I can sympathize with. I like characters who struggle with a conflict of some kind. Who have depth, nuance, and intrigue that get me care about them and their struggles. A lot of echoes characters just don't do that for me which is a shame cause I do want to like and care for these characters but the game does not really give me any chance to.

Xander is actually my favorite pseudo lord because of this. Unlike my favorite actual lord, who's just a dude with a spear that wants nothing more than to roam the continent as a mercenary and beat the crap out of other dudes, Xander's childhood was deeply explored. He's was a timid kid who had to face scary challenges, like his father, to mature and grow as a person. Unlike the perfect Ryoma, he practiced and trained day in and out to get the skills that was acquired to be a prince. When I first saw him in his opposing manner with that badass sword that shoots black lightning, I would have never imagined that he was like that as a kid, like myself as a kid. Only difference is, I was much more lazy in the self development department. XD 

  He's part of the reason I even bothered to pick Nohr over Hoshido. I wanted to see the "bad guys" given some more humanity and knew that IS would slack off in terms of introducing the dark side of the Hoshidans. Now it just sucks that, as you have pointed out, many of the characters have singular quirks about them and THAT is the only thing that is mentioned in their conversations. 

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I hear people give props to DS era Fire Emblem for its improvements to UI, and I get that, but I strongly disagree with how it sped up the gameplay. Radiant Dawn already had a great system with its animations off setting. In DS/3DS era, you just press start and fade to black, and it's a complete mystery what happens. It'll stop if one of your units dies, but naturally you might be wondering what killed them. Was it failing to dodge a 20% hit rate? Was it a random critical? Was it a random skill proc? Radiant Dawn gave you this information and it's honestly not that much slower than later games if you're in a hurry.Plus I just like seeing my units kick ass on enemy phase. Sure speed runs of later games were improved in terms of run time, but nobody would ever watch or run those games when half the gameplay is looking at a black loading screen. Fire Emblem Heroes saw the merit in Animations off and returned to that system over fading to black. I hope Three Houses does as well. 

Edited by Glennstavos

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:16 PM, Martin said:

Xander is actually my favorite pseudo lord because of this. Unlike my favorite actual lord, who's just a dude with a spear that wants nothing more than to roam the continent as a mercenary and beat the crap out of other dudes, Xander's childhood was deeply explored. He's was a timid kid who had to face scary challenges, like his father, to mature and grow as a person. Unlike the perfect Ryoma, he practiced and trained day in and out to get the skills that was acquired to be a prince. When I first saw him in his opposing manner with that badass sword that shoots black lightning, I would have never imagined that he was like that as a kid, like myself as a kid. Only difference is, I was much more lazy in the self development department. XD 

  He's part of the reason I even bothered to pick Nohr over Hoshido. I wanted to see the "bad guys" given some more humanity and knew that IS would slack off in terms of introducing the dark side of the Hoshidans. Now it just sucks that, as you have pointed out, many of the characters have singular quirks about them and THAT is the only thing that is mentioned in their conversations. 

isn't relating to the struggles and conflicts of fictional characters such a magical feeling? Honestly It's the one thing I love most about story telling is being able to relate to the struggles of fictional characters. It's just such an indescribable feeling of wonder isn't it?

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I don't think The Binding Blade is that good to be honest. I didn't really like the cast of characters as much, except for Lillina, the story was you typical FE story, and the gameplay is okay I guess.

The same goes for Shadows of Valentia. Except this time, I didn't like the gameplay at all.

 

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On 4/6/2019 at 2:58 PM, NopeGuy said:

The snes games, even though they are good in their own way, are overrated by long time fans of the series.

I just beat Chapter 3 of Geneology of the Holy War. I enjoy it overall, but it really hasn't aged well.

 

Plus, I do think it's probably just as deserving as being called "A Good Game, but not a Good Fire Emblem Game" as Awakening

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I think the Tellius games are overrated, I'm not alone here...right? I mean, I see the appeal and everything, but it's really not as good as people say it is. 

 

yep, i'm alone here..darn

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Never played the Tellius games. But from what I've seen, it looks pretty fun with the beast race, the cool villains, and a big baddie that's not a dragon. 

 

Another opinion, there should TOTALLY be a promoted class that uses only staves and can access an S rank mastery to them.  (Is it "an" or "a" here...?)

Edited by Martin

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On 4/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, Glennstavos said:

I hear people give props to DS era Fire Emblem for its improvements to UI, and I get that, but I strongly disagree with how it sped up the gameplay. Radiant Dawn already had a great system with its animations off setting. In DS/3DS era, you just press start and fade to black, and it's a complete mystery what happens. It'll stop if one of your units dies, but naturally you might be wondering what killed them. Was it failing to dodge a 20% hit rate? Was it a random critical? Was it a random skill proc? Radiant Dawn gave you this information and it's honestly not that much slower than later games if you're in a hurry.Plus I just like seeing my units kick ass on enemy phase. Sure speed runs of later games were improved in terms of run time, but nobody would ever watch or run those games when half the gameplay is looking at a black loading screen. Fire Emblem Heroes saw the merit in Animations off and returned to that system over fading to black. I hope Three Houses does as well. 

Skipping enemy phases entirely is optional, you can sit through and watch it as long as you don't press the button. If anything its inclusion is a net positive outside of the aforementioned speedrunning (it does dampen the entertainment value of recordings ngl) since it lightens the burden of replaying a redundant enemy phase. Also Radiant Dawn's UI lacks quite a bit of information with map/off animations, and even with them on it still doesn't tell you skill proc rates or how Resolve affects a battle.

I have more issues with Shadow Dragon's map peripheral than any other part of the UI.

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On 9-4-2019 at 8:07 PM, ~ Yuri ~ said:

I think the Tellius games are overrated, I'm not alone here...right? I mean, I see the appeal and everything, but it's really not as good as people say it is. 

 

yep, i'm alone here..darn

I’m not sure if i’d call the games overrated, but I do have some problems with fe10. Its the game where I have the most chapters that I consider turn offs.

Part 2 is great with Story, but  I don’t care for the maps themselves all that much. 2-e being the exception of course, but stuff like the Brom/Neph chapter are no fun to me. Likewise a lot of part 3 maps don’t do it for me.

Its also a game that doesn’t let you experiment all that much till endgame. A neccesary evil since there are 4 part, but it still means the game is a bit harder to pick up again.

my unpopular opinion for today is that I want more units with odd stat. Units like Subaki or Hinata where not well received, but I thought they where neat. Why should pegs/myrms just be a choice  between fast and frail or faster and frailer?

give me a mage with loads of Hp and defense. A warrior with low attack and high speed. A character made for magic weapons could be cool too.

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2 hours ago, Sasori said:

my unpopular opinion for today is that I want more units with odd stat. Units like Subaki or Hinata where not well received, but I thought they where neat. Why should pegs/myrms just be a choice  between fast and frail or faster and frailer?

I will say it could have been worse, Hinata while not all that good could have been a lot worse. There is some interesting approaches with some of these units and it could be worse.

Subaki was awful as a unit though and I still stand by that.

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