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Well, looks like my question was answered today by the game, but doesn’t the Shinjuku revival banner feel a little early? It’s going to be available later today instead of after the Ishtar banner.

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5 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Well, looks like my question was answered today by the game, but doesn’t the Shinjuku revival banner feel a little early? It’s going to be available later today instead of after the Ishtar banner.

I doubt it really matters at the end of the day because I’m pretty sure hardly anyone is going to bother with that rate up considering the servants are okayish at best (Lobo, Moriarty) and awful at worst (Yan Qing). 

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10 minutes ago, Silverly said:

I doubt it really matters at the end of the day because I’m pretty sure hardly anyone is going to bother with that rate up considering the servants are okayish at best (Lobo, Moriarty) and awful at worst (Yan Qing). 

I wonder what’s what the point of the banner. Filler?

And thinking about it, most Servants introduced in EoR’s story aren’t particularly impressive are they?

Only Mune comes to mind as a standout Servant.

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1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

I wonder what’s what the point of the banner. Filler?

And thinking about it, most Servants introduced in EoR’s story aren’t particularly impressive are they?

Only Mune comes to mind as a standout Servant.

It’s supposed to coincide with the AP cut for those who haven’t yet beat Solomon, and thus unable to start Shinjuku for that matter, or maybe those who put off EoR for whatever reason.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re unimpressive, but none of them are going to be on the same caliber with, say, Merlin or Gilgamesh. Sure, there’s a couple duds thrown in, at least initially (I’m looking at you, Yan Qing and Scherzerade), but Abby, Circe, Tomoe Gozen, Queen of Sheba, and Penthisilea are all solid as well as Yagyu which you mentioned earlier.

Edited by Silverly
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1 hour ago, Silverly said:

It’s supposed to coincide with the AP cut for those who haven’t yet beat Solomon, and thus unable to start Shinjuku for that matter, or maybe those who put off EoR for whatever reason.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re unimpressive, but none of them are going to be on the same caliber with, say, Merlin or Gilgamesh. Sure, there’s a couple duds thrown in, at least initially (I’m looking at you, Yan Qing and Scherzerade), but Abby, Circe, Tomoe Gozen, Queen of Sheba, and Penthisilea are all solid as well as Yagyu which you mentioned earlier.

On second thought, I shouldn’t say they were unimpressive. I guess it’s because from the american Singularity to Solomon we got such constant influx of powerful Servants such as Karna, Amakusa, Cu Alter, Rider Kintoki, Jeanne Alter, Ozy, Saberlot, Ishtar, Quetz and Merlin, the EoR Servants appeared unimpressive when they were actually really solid. And thinking about it again, I could be wrong but ever since Merlin, the only really “game breaking” Servant that was introduced was Skadi.

Edited by Water Mage
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2 hours ago, Silverly said:

okayish at best (Lobo, Moriarty).

Lobo is pretty high up among SR servants and that was even before his strengthening that's more damage and a crit buff ?. He has a few offensive skills packed together with some utility making him not just a standard DPS servant. While Quick does hurt him a little for now it's not crippling with his attack stat and damage modifier.

Regarding the whole new servants not being as powerful as the ones before I'd say it's more a case of DW just not going overboard with designing servants gameplay wise for the most part. Powercreep is a slippery slope and it's a good thing the devs don't hamfist it into the rectums of players unlike a certain Nintendo property. There have been cracks that have forever changed the game, but those are a extreme minority.

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56 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

On second thought, I shouldn’t say they were unimpressive. I guess it’s because from the american Singularity to Solomon we got such constant influx of powerful Servants such as Karna, Amakusa, Cu Alter, Rider Kintoki, Jeanne Alter, Ozy, Saberlot, Ishtar, Quetz and Merlin, the EoR Servants appeared unimpressive when they were actually really solid. And thinking about it again, I could be wrong but ever since Merlin, the only really “game breaking” Servant that was introduced was Skadi.

 

2 hours ago, Silverly said:

It’s supposed to coincide with the AP cut for those who haven’t yet beat Solomon, and thus unable to start Shinjuku for that matter, or maybe those who put off EoR for whatever reason.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re unimpressive, but none of them are going to be on the same caliber with, say, Merlin or Gilgamesh. Sure, there’s a couple duds thrown in, at least initially (I’m looking at you, Yan Qing and Scherzerade), but Abby, Circe, Tomoe Gozen, Queen of Sheba, and Penthisilea are all solid as well as Yagyu which you mentioned earlier.

im going to say that EOR is one of the weakest release period, if not the weakest in the game, but some of them are more than it seems, but yeah its not LB level. Especially LB2 and LB3 is a huge release compared to how tame LB1 was(Ivan was hyped but he ended up not being as crazy as expected)

 

To wit heres how i rate them nowadays

TAJIMA THE GOD tier:

Tajima the god - the only thing stopping him from sitting through the game is the game's shift towards AOE content, but hes such an outlier of an insane servant


Ridiciculously good

Schehrazade - Yes. One of the best looper in the game, very strong side damage niche. Her loop potential pales in comparison to Ana, and Sieg is free later down the line but shes a very good servant in time, noticably, she is one of the best servant to take on Super Kama

 

OK/Good:

Queen of Sheba - If were just looking skillset Sheba is arguably one of the most absurd servant in the game. Well, shes a caster so she isnt as ridiculous, but Casshew would be released later and she hits super hard so yeah

Circe - Notable as the best BArbatos farmer during Reines case files event, Solid

Abby - never used her that much but she's not bad, being an ST Foreigner makes her very helpful to cheese ST Berserker fights

Tomoe Gozen - Barebones servant who is essentially Gilgamesh but worse in every way possible imaginable. Gilgamesh is a ridiculous servant for sure, but she does the bare minimum you want for Buster Archer and thats kinda it. Dont be too fooled by her skillset's shiny looks - she had almost nothing to set her apart from Gil honestly but still shes pretty good

Penth - Funny how earlier on the complain about Jerker is, shes not as good as Penth. But no, Jerker is arguably more convenient to use than Penth due to some staying power and battery, and of course auto NP5. Granted she probably have an easier time guaranteeing 2 NP. But eh, for the record i like Jerker a lot, but i never used her since i dont have Jerker @MrSmokestack is reported to get heart attack when Jerker is revealed though

 

 

I believe thats all of them? But yeah, contrary to the old news, Scheherazade is arguably the most solid servant of the entire EOR servant pool right now

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Oh yeah there's Passionlip as well. Gets better with interlude and strengthening. Alter Egos aren't that good offensively, but defensively they're above average and Lip does benefit from that with her skillset

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23 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I believe thats all of them? 

Close. I actually skipped a couple being Wu Zetain, Kato Danzo, Mochizuki Choyime, Nezha, and the 3*s. I didn’t mention them because I either didn’t know enough about them or I heard they were simply average, while the 3*s I didn’t think were relevant due to their commonality.

29 minutes ago, redlight said:

Lobo is pretty high up among SR servants and that was even before his strengthening that's more damage and a crit buff ?. He has a few offensive skills packed together with some utility making him not just a standard DPS servant. While Quick does hurt him a little for now it's not crippling with his attack stat and damage modifier.

Huh, that’s funny. Many outlets I keep track of don’t seem rare him that highly. I’m aware he eventually gets better down the line but as it stands it just isn’t his time yet.

Edited by Silverly
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4 minutes ago, Silverly said:

Close. I actually skipped a couple being Wu Zetain, Kato Danzo, Mochizuki Choyime, Nezha, and the 3*s. I didn’t mention them because I either didn’t know enough about them or I heard they were simply average, while the 3*s I didn’t think were relevant due to their commonality.

Huh, that’s funny. Many outlets I keep track of don’t seem rare him that highly. I’m aware he eventually gets better down the line but as it stands it just isn’t his time yet.

Lobo is something most people cant quite agree with actually, im personally on camp of saying hes rather eh

 

his skillset is unironically Yagyu but worse

 

Most of the assassins is essentially "its cute", Chiyome had ok kit, but nothing special. Danzo is mostly notable for being able to protect you from NP and die doing so cycling her out immediately


Wu Zetian is hyped as quick support since people were that desperate, but as a quick button press, shes below the level of Chiron by miles

 

Ne Zha is a good servant without interlude

 

 

the 3*, after buff, Coluimbus is solid but thats about it. Baldy is a well known meme thingy thats more hyped than he deserve to get - suffering from not having offensive np is a huge deal

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Seems like a lot of the flaws of the EoR Servants gets corrected later on.

Changing the subject I’m really hoping Onigashima starts next week. I really want that Tamano banner.

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Onigashima is either going to start this week or next week.  I doubt it will start any later than next week, because that might be pushing Agartha too close to the anniversary (Onigashima is two weeks, and Agartha releases when Onigashima ends).

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1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Abby - never used her that much but she's not bad, being an ST Foreigner makes her very helpful to cheese ST Berserker fights

Abby / Jeanne / Merlin is notably a slow but very stable comp that you can take into the majority of CQs. You laugh at card damage and enemy buffs.

Qin is probably better if you absolutely must not get hit by enemy cards, but Abby is a better DPS.

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Penth - Funny how earlier on the complain about Jerker is, shes not as good as Penth. But no, Jerker is arguably more convenient to use than Penth due to some staying power and battery, and of course auto NP5. Granted she probably have an easier time guaranteeing 2 NP.

I remember when people said Jeanne Berserker was worse than Penth. That gives me a chuckle every now and then.

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Thinking about my list a bit more I think need to introduce a new tier. I abhor introducing more tiers than necessary but seeing how inflated B-Tier and revisiting some placement relations between B and C-Tier let me come to this conclusion.

Best example for my problem is Romulus vs Hektor. The latter is better but not by that much that it would warrant a entire tier difference . Damage-wise Romulus without Privilege lags behind ~800 points with Hektor having some few small wins in better NP effects. Both have pretty mediocre skills.
Another one is Blackbeard vs Medusa/Alexander. He does similar amount of damage to the former but lacks her Np gain + battery while Alexander outdamages him by a noticeable amount while providing 2 team-wide buffs. In everything else he is much worse due to being a 2*.

So I would re-arrange the list like this:

Spoiler

EX and A stay the same, D-Tier becomes E-Tier.

B

  • Gilgamesh (Kid Gil)
  • Medusa
  • Boudica
  • Alexander
  • William Shakespeare
  • Hassan of the Hundred Personas
  • Fuuma Kotarou
  • Hassan of the Cursed Arm
  • Sasaki Kojirou
  • Spartacus

C

  • Fergus Mac Róich
  • Tawara Touta
  • Romulus
  • Hektor
  • Edward Teach
  • Cú Chulainn (Caster)
  • Charles Babbage
  • Jing Ke
  • Hassan of the Serenity
  • Kiyohime
  • Eric Bloodaxe

D

  • Gilles de Rais
  • Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
  • Mephistopheles
  • Paracelsus von Hohenheim
  • Henry Jekyll & Hyde
  • Charles-Henri Sanson
  • Mata Hari
  • Darius III
  • Caligula

Any thoughts?

Edited by Magus of Memery
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15 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Thinking about my list a bit more I think need to introduce a new tier. I abhor introducing more tiers than necessary but seeing how inflated B-Tier and revisiting some placement relations between B and C-Tier let me come to this conclusion.

Best example for my problem is Romulus vs Hektor. The latter is better but not by that much that it would warrant a entire tier difference . Damage-wise Romulus without Privilege lags behind ~800 points with Hektor having some few small wins in better NP effects. Both have pretty mediocre skills.
Another one is Blackbeard vs Medusa/Alexander. He does similar amount of damage to the former but lacks her Np gain + battery while Alexander outdamages him by a noticeable amount while providing 2 team-wide buffs. In everything else he is much worse due to being a 2*.

So I would re-arrange the list like this:

  Hide contents

EX and A stay the same, D-Tier becomes E-Tier.

B

  • Gilgamesh (Kid Gil)
  • Medusa
  • Boudica
  • Alexander
  • William Shakespeare
  • Hassan of the Hundred Personas
  • Fuuma Kotarou
  • Hassan of the Cursed Arm
  • Sasaki Kojirou
  • Spartacus

C

  • Fergus Mac Róich
  • Tawara Touta
  • Romulus
  • Hektor
  • Edward Teach
  • Cú Chulainn (Caster)
  • Charles Babbage
  • Jing Ke
  • Hassan of the Serenity
  • Kiyohime
  • Eric Bloodaxe

D

  • Gilles de Rais
  • Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
  • Mephistopheles
  • Paracelsus von Hohenheim
  • Henry Jekyll & Hyde
  • Charles-Henri Sanson
  • Mata Hari
  • Darius III
  • Caligula

Any thoughts?

At the very least, Darius can be a K-Scope using Farming zerker. That's still better than anyone else in D tier. 

I mean, he's the blandest one, but it's still better than whatever bullshit the rest of the tier does. 

Darius to bottom of C tier. He's the worst of the farming berserkers, but that's still better than the rest of D tier since he's pretty straightforward. 

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6 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

Thinking about my list a bit more I think need to introduce a new tier. I abhor introducing more tiers than necessary but seeing how inflated B-Tier and revisiting some placement relations between B and C-Tier let me come to this conclusion.

Best example for my problem is Romulus vs Hektor. The latter is better but not by that much that it would warrant a entire tier difference . Damage-wise Romulus without Privilege lags behind ~800 points with Hektor having some few small wins in better NP effects. Both have pretty mediocre skills.
Another one is Blackbeard vs Medusa/Alexander. He does similar amount of damage to the former but lacks her Np gain + battery while Alexander outdamages him by a noticeable amount while providing 2 team-wide buffs. In everything else he is much worse due to being a 2*.

So I would re-arrange the list like this:

  Hide contents

EX and A stay the same, D-Tier becomes E-Tier.

B

  • Gilgamesh (Kid Gil)
  • Medusa
  • Boudica
  • Alexander
  • William Shakespeare
  • Hassan of the Hundred Personas
  • Fuuma Kotarou
  • Hassan of the Cursed Arm
  • Sasaki Kojirou
  • Spartacus

C

  • Fergus Mac Róich
  • Tawara Touta
  • Romulus
  • Hektor
  • Edward Teach
  • Cú Chulainn (Caster)
  • Charles Babbage
  • Jing Ke
  • Hassan of the Serenity
  • Kiyohime
  • Eric Bloodaxe

D

  • Gilles de Rais
  • Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
  • Mephistopheles
  • Paracelsus von Hohenheim
  • Henry Jekyll & Hyde
  • Charles-Henri Sanson
  • Mata Hari
  • Darius III
  • Caligula

Any thoughts?

 

6 hours ago, The Chad Sharpy said:

At the very least, Darius can be a K-Scope using Farming zerker. That's still better than anyone else in D tier. 

I mean, he's the blandest one, but it's still better than whatever bullshit the rest of the tier does. 

Darius to bottom of C tier. He's the worst of the farming berserkers, but that's still better than the rest of D tier since he's pretty straightforward. 

Alexander have somewhat ok buffset and Medusa have battery. Those are big enough characteristic to warrant an entire tier difference in my opinion

 

Going form D Tier:

- Seconding Dariusr. He have the strongest base power of all AOE Zerker due to Interlude doing roughly the same damage as Kiyohime(remember Kiyo's damage comes from Stalking on NP chart). Fundamentally only Spartacus is one step ahea dof all AOE Zerker and its entirely due to battery. Kiyohime does have Caster Balls animation - the most broken sub-animation scheme a servant could ever wish to have in this game thanks to how fucking bonkers absurd the NP gen for them are, but on a Berserker, Caster Balls animation isn't quite as ridiculous

- Hohenheim is a 80% battery. From farming perspective he deserve a raise - Black Grail + Battery + Waver is decent result. Later on he's an A Tier servant but eh

- Mephistopeles is one of the more used servant for Break Bar era shenanigans so he should be at least C. A lot of servant in B tier had less usage than he does

 

For C Tier

- Fergus and Tawara's is more roughly on par with B Tiers. I know theres this meme about how loltawarawho but his skillset is honestly super solid

 

 

Besides Boudica B tier seems fine. My only problem with Boudica is she's NP or bust, and even her NP is so much worse than Lord Camelot despite its nickname of "whack Lord Camelot". Being 40 decaying into 20, vs 30 all 3 turns with 775 damage cut.  I can see some set up using her effectively but she's one of the servants in mind that i'd imagine used less than Mephistopeles against relevant contents

 

Also its the first time i saw Boudica's Bond CE.... and its so fucking bad. How the fuck did you have servant like Gilles with stupidly good Bond CE and then Boudica lmaooooooo(just a random musings)

 

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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I might also say Mata Hari to top of D tier at least since she can help in the Solomon chapter with her seals. Idk if that'd warrant jumping to  C tier, but it's a relatively helpful-ish thing she can do.

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Mata Hari is much better then D - being able to pop in and just casually drop a 40%~60% def break on a very budget low cost unit is pretty good!

Maybe I would say Spartacus deserves to move up just because how usefull he is. 1star zerk with a battery is so rare and usefull, but his stats do hold him back for random farming even if he is deceptively bulky thanks to his skill set

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Well, with Serenes out for a day, we missed the moment the banana had been slain.

Now what? The event ends today and Onigashima doesn’t seem seem to be starting  right after it so it’s going to be a sort of 6 day break?

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21 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Well, with Serenes out for a day, we missed the moment the banana had been slain.

Now what? The event ends today and Onigashima doesn’t seem seem to be starting  right after it so it’s going to be a sort of 6 day break?

Six days to farm ambers, do free quests for quarts, interludes and/or strengthening quests

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On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Alexander have somewhat ok buffset and Medusa have battery. Those are big enough characteristic to warrant an entire tier difference in my opinion

Well, that's what I meant. Plus Alexander does a lot more damage than Blackbeard besides his buffs so there should be a tier difference between these two and him.

On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Seconding Darius

On 5/28/2019 at 7:25 PM, The Chad Sharpy said:

At the very least, Darius can be a K-Scope using Farming zerker. That's still better than anyone else in D tier. 

I mean, he's the blandest one, but it's still better than whatever bullshit the rest of the tier does. 

I can see that. Kiyohime doesn't outdamage him significantly and she just has marginally better NP gain which probably won't matter much for farming purposes. Stalking is an ok def debuff but it's just another small win. Yeah, I'll move him up.

On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Fergus and Tawara's is more roughly on par with B Tiers. I know theres this meme about how loltawarawho but his skillset is honestly super solid

For Touta I'm waiting for his NP Interlude before placing him in B-Tier.
Fergus on the other hand is a bit iffy. He is essentially pure stats and little else. Compared to everything in B-Tier he does pale a bit.

On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Besides Boudica B tier seems fine. My only problem with Boudica is she's NP or bust, and even her NP is so much worse than Lord Camelot despite its nickname of "whack Lord Camelot". Being 40 decaying into 20, vs 30 all 3 turns with 775 damage cut.  I can see some set up using her effectively but she's one of the servants in mind that i'd imagine used less than Mephistopeles against relevant contents

On the other hand Boudica gives the team a 44% damage increase vs Mash's 30%. Her values on her defense buffs are better overall but Boudica's is still good enough to ensure survival through buff stacking during NP turns.
I would say Boudica is B-Tier, she does work as a Support despite being largely NP-reliant and even though it's not that special it's better than being entirely vanilla-flavoured.

On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Mephistopeles is one of the more used servant for Break Bar era shenanigans so he should be at least C. A lot of servant in B tier had less usage than he does

This is an interesting statement considering I don't see anyone really use Mephisto besides in very specific quests (e.g. Solomon). He can be useful againt break bars but most of the time there are other sources for combating buffs so he is pretty niche. Not to mention it comes at the expense of him heavily lacking in other areas like his bad NP.
That being said I'm probably moving him up to C since he can potentially see more use than anything in D-Tier right now when it comes to CQ.

On 5/29/2019 at 1:34 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Hohenheim is a 80% battery. From farming perspective he deserve a raise - Black Grail + Battery + Waver is decent result. Later on he's an A Tier servant but eh

No to that last statement. He is absolutely not A-Tier. Even post-Strengthening this guy has severe issues, starting from his terrible NP to unreasonable skill CD. His NP gain is especially bad for a Caster.
I could see him post-buff in B at best as he does contribute to certain farming setups (like Summer Mordred) but this guy is not viable for anything else. Looking at what A-Tier has Paracelsus is significantlly worse.

Also if I calculated correctly Paracelsus deals 19920 damage with Grail, 25896 with Waver buffs. That's very underwhelming, even pre-Strengthening Babbage without Grail has the about the same damage output under the same conditions. It's not like Paracelsus has great refund and RDW has a massive CD tacked on it so basically Black Grail only makes him comparable to any other Servant with Kaleidoscope. This is an argument against him tbh, though I guess being somewhat useable for farming has its merits.

On 5/29/2019 at 3:24 AM, QKumber said:

Mata Hari is much better then D - being able to pop in and just casually drop a 40%~60% def break on a very budget low cost unit is pretty good!

And she does nothing else. That's her biggest problem. max. 60% debuff for 1 turn and 40% for 3 turns isn't anything to scoff at but when it comes at the expense of everything else this becomes problematic for her viability. It is also only applicable against males and against non-males it becomes 40%, then 20% which is a lot worse to look at (and the 3-turn debuff is ST).
Also compared to Mephistopheles (who imo has the same problem) her niche is a lot more replaceable (basically stack 2 Charisma for the same result) and considering that her drawbacks weigh heavier.

So with most of the input in mind:

Spoiler

B

  • Gilgamesh (Kid Gil)
  • Medusa
  • Boudica
  • Alexander
  • William Shakespeare
  • Hassan of the Hundred Personas
  • Fuuma Kotarou
  • Hassan of the Cursed Arm
  • Sasaki Kojirou
  • Spartacus

C

  • Fergus Mac Róich
  • Tawara Touta
  • Romulus
  • Hektor
  • Edward Teach
  • Cú Chulainn (Caster)
  • Mephistopheles
  • Paracelsus von Hohenheim
  • Charles Babbage
  • Jing Ke
  • Hassan of the Serenity
  • Darius III
  • Kiyohime
  • Eric Bloodaxe

D

  • Gilles de Rais
  • Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
  • Henry Jekyll & Hyde
  • Charles-Henri Sanson
  • Mata Hari
  • Caligula

For full disclosure changes here are the changes I'm planning based on future Strengthenings/Interludes that will affect these tiers:

Hassan of the Hundred Personas B -> A (post-Interlude)

Hassan of the Cursed Arm B -> A (post-Strengthening)

Tawara Touta C -> B (post-Interlude)

Cú Chulainn (Caster) C -> B (post-Strengthening)

Paracelsus C -> B (post-Strengthening)

Hassan of the Serenity C -> B (post-Interlude)

Geronimo E -> D (post-Interlude)

 

Edited by Magus of Memery
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After the Rashomon event, I collected all the lores this time around. That challenge quest at the end was a pain, Ibaraki crits like a truck. In the end, it took 3 command seals for a team revive in order to best her.

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