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12 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Yan is actually kinda legit after his buff. Just like..... uhhh 90% of servant out there his "issue" is the one thing called not having Interlude. Works well with Skadi etc

 

There was legit a time before his buff where NP5 Yan Qing is outdamaged by NP5 Kojiro ungrailed. That was quite a dark time

I have a NP5 Kojiro fully ascended (without grail). Are you saying that NP1 Yan Qing on NA deal lesser damage than that?

 

26 minutes ago, Silverly said:

It’s a bit difficult to say. Hassan is probably better for the rarity he’s in, while conversely Yan Qing is considered to be a very lame assassin, and one of the weaker 4*s overall. Plus the former should be easier to level up. However, Hassan also has significantly lower stats so you need to keep that in mind unless you plan to feed him a couple grails. 

Now it just seems like Hassan is better for me, just to save some resources. Gonna level Yan Qing eventually since I like his art and everything but that's available online anyway. 

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1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

Blitzing is the superior strategy because it will get you through the vast majority of content more reliably than stall. A small subset of quests being more feasible to stall for most people doesn't suddenly make stall the superior strategy. If anything it's a last resort.

In recent JP CQs, the longer you take to complete a quest, the more likely you are to lose. Enemies are now hitting harder than before, and can stack buffs to make themselves more dangerous. Blitzing is very effective in these scenarios because they limit the number of turns the enemy has to act.

So yeah, that second line is patently false, at least in JP. Stall teams have in fact become increasingly difficult to use, especially if you aren't using the stronger options.

2 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

because in the grand scheme of things no strategy is better or worse than the other.

As for your last line:

1. The most recent hardest fight I hear of is Kama with 100% event gauge. That one requires stall.
a. Obvioulsy the 0% gauge can be cleared through rushing. But since it's a lesser version of the harder fight stalling should work just as well.
2. Nothing in Case Files Collab suggests that stalling wouldn't work. On the other hand I heard nothing of a really tough fight either.
3. CCC rerun had Kingprotea who only leaves 2 options: Either you end her in 1 turn or you stall her out until her gimmick runs out. Both are viable options.
4. Entirety of LB3 (especially that one fight) is considered the biggest difficulty spike post-Skadi. Didn't really found anything but otoh
5. Only the Sherlock CQ matches your description as that one piles up buffs and requires a fast clear. Ironically the first clear I found features Vlad with double Tamamo, so ...

So patently false are your claims, I'm afraid.
Also, ironically enough, some of the faster Arts team clears I found involve Tamamo, using her NP and damage buffs to ensure NPs in quick succession while being massively buffed from her skills. So this comes as very funny to me:

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

In fact, I never use Tamamo in JP at all, and I run Arts teams full-time.

You sure you're not selling Summer BB + Merlin as an Arts team? B stands for Buster, you know?

tbh I'm very skeptical about your claims of JP because on paper while it seems a lot different from the current NA format (ST -> AoE shift being the biggest culprit) nothing suggests that it becomes that much harder and phases out existing teams. If anything I suspect that the Skadi rush lead people to use the more comfortable option rather than actually working out a stall team (because that's the majority of clears I found).
Plus you see Honako still doing 1-3* clears so everything is more than manageable. Honako wins. Fatality.

-----------------

1 hour ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

I have a NP5 Kojiro fully ascended (without grail). Are you saying that NP1 Yan Qing on NA deal lesser damage than that?

Yes. In NA:
Yan Qing: 20158
Kojiro (NP5, no grail): 22306

Yan Qing is unfortunately pretty underwhelming and post-buff the gap becomes even more favorable for Kojiro (because he got an actual NP strengthening). Even with his skill upgrade Yan Qing is ... just there.

For all intents and purposes Hassan is a better choice if you need someone who can supply stars and not only is he far more durable, he has a cheap deployment cost as well. This holds especially true once he gets buffed, making one of the best star generators in the game.

 
 

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1 hour ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

I have a NP5 Kojiro fully ascended (without grail). Are you saying that NP1 Yan Qing on NA deal lesser damage than that?

 

Now it just seems like Hassan is better for me, just to save some resources. Gonna level Yan Qing eventually since I like his art and everything but that's available online anyway. 

No

 

NP5 Yan Qing deals lesser damage than postbuff Kojiro

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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10 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

As for your last line:

1. The most recent hardest fight I hear of is Kama with 100% event gauge. That one requires stall.

Stall is how most people handled it. But even that fight has been cleared in a couple of turns. I’ve seen it done in 19 turns, 25 turns  and as few as 7 turns.

Quote

2. Nothing in Case Files Collab suggests that stalling wouldn't work. On the other hand I heard nothing of a really tough fight either.
3. CCC rerun had Kingprotea who only leaves 2 options: Either you end her in 1 turn or you stall her out until her gimmick runs out. Both are viable options.
4. Entirety of LB3 (especially that one fight) is considered the biggest difficulty spike post-Skadi. Didn't really found anything but otoh
5. Only the Sherlock CQ matches your description as that one piles up buffs and requires a fast clear. Ironically the first clear I found features Vlad with double Tamamo, so ...

So patently false are your claims, I’m afraid.

I beg to differ.

Quote

Most of my clears don't run into these issues often because I actively take ways to avoid them as much as I can but here:

1) 

This has Merlin with Waver defense buff.
 



3)

This is Zilong's QSH fight. That normal, non-crit attack would've one shotted your standard zerk.
 



This is Smoke's Reines CQ. Nice class advantage there Kerry. Anyone want to take a gander at what would happen to a zerk here?
 

 

Quote

You sure you're not selling Summer BB + Merlin as an Arts team? B stands for Buster, you know?

tbh I'm very skeptical about your claims of JP because on paper while it seems a lot different from the current NA format (ST -> AoE shift being the biggest culprit) nothing suggests that it becomes that much harder and phases out existing teams. If anything I suspect that the Skadi rush lead people to use the more comfortable option rather than actually working out a stall team (because that's the majority of clears I found).

I don’t know what videos you were looking at, but this is the experience that me (and like, literally everyone that plays JP) has had with these fights. And don’t even get me started on Battle for New York. Mash with Lord Camelot up is still a pincushion.

The CQ shift has made traditional Arts teams, especially with Tamamo, a lot less effective. I guess if you don’t mind resetting for bad RNG, it’s manageable. But clears with less optimized teams are subject to much more variation than before.

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Double post because Serenes Forest is awesome and won’t let me edit posts.

SR BB / Waver / Lanling is my go-to team, but I regularly switch out the DPS for a more appropriate servant when needed.

Also this bit from the post I quoted:

Quote

Your classic non-blitz, non-Cu, non-Herc zerker situation. See why it's really bad when what normally 2 shot regular servants one shots zerks instead? Wow Raikou would've been great here huh? Yeah, Nightingale got focussed but that was from a buffless Murasaki who didn't crit once.

Keep in mind I’ve never claimed the meta shift invalidates preexisting team comps. I’ve only said they become much weaker.

So yes, I think I know what I’m talking about, because I actually play the JP server and have experienced this BS firsthand.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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21 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Double post because Serenes Forest is awesome and won’t let me edit posts.

SR BB / Waver / Lanling is my go-to team, but I regularly switch out the DPS for a more appropriate servant when needed.

Also this bit from the post I quoted:

Keep in mind I’ve never claimed the meta shift invalidates preexisting team comps. I’ve only said they become much weaker.

So yes, I think I know what I’m talking about, because I actually play the JP server and have experienced this BS firsthand.

 

43 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

As for your last line:

1. The most recent hardest fight I hear of is Kama with 100% event gauge. That one requires stall.
a. Obvioulsy the 0% gauge can be cleared through rushing. But since it's a lesser version of the harder fight stalling should work just as well.
2. Nothing in Case Files Collab suggests that stalling wouldn't work. On the other hand I heard nothing of a really tough fight either.
3. CCC rerun had Kingprotea who only leaves 2 options: Either you end her in 1 turn or you stall her out until her gimmick runs out. Both are viable options.
4. Entirety of LB3 (especially that one fight) is considered the biggest difficulty spike post-Skadi. Didn't really found anything but otoh
5. Only the Sherlock CQ matches your description as that one piles up buffs and requires a fast clear. Ironically the first clear I found features Vlad with double Tamamo, so ...

So patently false are your claims, I'm afraid.
Also, ironically enough, some of the faster Arts team clears I found involve Tamamo, using her NP and damage buffs to ensure NPs in quick succession while being massively buffed from her skills. So this comes as very funny to me:

You sure you're not selling Summer BB + Merlin as an Arts team? B stands for Buster, you know?

tbh I'm very skeptical about your claims of JP because on paper while it seems a lot different from the current NA format (ST -> AoE shift being the biggest culprit) nothing suggests that it becomes that much harder and phases out existing teams. If anything I suspect that the Skadi rush lead people to use the more comfortable option rather than actually working out a stall team (because that's the majority of clears I found).
Plus you see Honako still doing 1-3* clears so everything is more than manageable. Honako wins. Fatality.

   

 

Yeah, i honestly would say arts is weaker as a whole than "counterteam" actually letys take a look back to all 2019 event and see it one by one

Honako team is actually always a "counterteam", including one notable part where he used Jerker(and high NP level Penth) a lot, due to her nice combination of fast, extremely powerful NP that brutalizes a lot of CQ nowadays. If anything his clears is a better showing why strict arts comp isnt all that great nowadays

 

LB2, while its true that Euryale is the best servant, its less because arts is great and more because Eury can turbo through 3 bar of male saber really quicly

LB3, again, Medea is fucking awesome against Li but shes a one and done, and the best accesible strategy for Xiang Yu is a robust frontline that can quickly burst down Yu, and lasts long enough

Against 15 enemies, the best pick isnt any team in particular, but rather taking Amakusa or Kiara.

I would admit Arts caster comp is the best option against gaytree

 

QSH is a very badly designed fight that tells you "use Jalter you fucking moron" and flip a coin. NO team, not buster, not quick, and especially not arts is good against him, your better off just taking Saber Lancelot, Hans, Jalter, flip a coin, if he didnt kill Jalter you win. Maybe throw in some unbuffwipables or some shit Its the second worst designed fight in the entirety of FGO, until Tokugawa event creates a fight thats even more badly designed. Thankfully the later isnt a fucking CQ, just a mid story fight

 

MONKEY is a literal counterpick fight, where you take shit like Proto Cu and 2 randos and took some archer and call it a day. This one i cleared with pseudo arts stall using the newly buffed Fionn to stall the first wave, and then make do with the second wave. Buster is actually the strongest option here simply because Merlin having teamwide nulification does a lot. Arts, only Fionn can really laugh at the first wave and hes a Lancer in a Saber CQ

 

Prisma codes - either you run aoe arts rider with CE to brutalize this thing with some Merlin, or you use..... Fionn because turns out when the enemy is min maxed to the situation where Fionn is ridiculously good, you use Fionn and win

 

Valentine the key for this is really Arash to kill the books THEN immediately murder And then they all fuck, the best option of which is Kintoki Rider

 

I honestly think Kingprotea being able to be nuke ISNT a point for quick burn. Why? because you need fucking stupid min maxing with whale resource to do that - it took Rexlent HOURS to rolls out perfect Kintoki roll and thats one of the strongest possible option you can ever have. Don't bother with that. The best team for this is also not arts, its a hodgepodge team running Jeanne with assistance from Chevalier D'eon being at his absolute best here. Everything about KP fight basically screams "D'eon exists, use her". I'm pretty sure the reason that Whip Only Kiara is easy with Quick is ultra obvious so i won't talk about it here

 

Sherlock, use Jalter done

 

Ooku, this is probably Jerker's stronges showing so far, regardless the form of this one makes Arts the least efficient comp simply because Kiyohime's debuff is really fucking annoying and you simply can't stall effectively when at some point every new enemy comes around with full NP gauge. Jerker Amakusa is better than any team besides maybe a super whaled out Buster, super whaled out Quick, and AOE arts composition running Kiara

 

Another CQ that basically says use a specific servant and stop giving a fuck, this time starring Sherlock Holmes. Also if i remember correctly, this one is soloable with Heracles so take it with a grain of salt

 

Then we get to Casefiles, and honestly this one is friendly to all 3 composition, Buster can nuke down Alex fast, Quick have Jack shining for once and once your done with it, you just Kintoki Rider the leftovers or Ushiwakamaru. Arts can use Euryale to attempt locking down Alex

 

 

Murder Mystery 2 is the hardest quest of 2019, the sheer difficulty of not sleeping over it is harder than Nerofest 2 Gilgames

 

As a whole most of 2019 CQ is better done by blitzing, or to run 1-2 servant who happen to hardcounter them and enable them to be done with it Even Binny is these kind of situation where against MHXA, one of the more hated fight of it, can be done with triple Cu PfA stacking

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I somehow missed this when I was skimming Magus’s post but it needs to be addressed.

Bronze and Silver runs (or whatever Honako does these days) are usually the exact opposite of budget. They require high level CEs (even a few limited ones), skills, and a lot of luck. Just because clearing recent content with 3* and below servants is possible is not at all the same as saying it’s easy to do so. Honako barely uses all 3* servants in his clears anymore. Like JSND said he relies on Berserker nukes like Jeanne Alter and Penthesilea to skip break bars, because gently caress having to deal with fights that delete your servants in just 2-3 hits.

That said, I still use some low-rarity servants in my JP teams when they work well. Hans is pretty much MVP at dropping buffs, then dropping out for another support. And just recently in NA I used Poster Girl Mozart to clear the 6M Ibaraki with no RNG every single time. But you can’t run a team like George / Hans / David or something and expect it to work as well as, say, Mash / Merlin / DPS. The enemy card damage makes such strategies more difficult to use.

If you were trying to prove that “you don’t need meta because you can clear anything with whatever you want”, then congratulations, you made a total non-argument. Because that was never the point of contention.

You can play this game using any team provided you are masochistic enough to do multiple retries or invest heavily to make the team work. I know people who insist on using Consort Yu to clear content, and even they admit she’s pretty terrible.

However, I will call out anyone who claims that JP’s meta hasn’t affected certain team comps at all, because that’s utterly false. Especially if it’s coming from someone who only plays the NA server.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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9 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

You can play this game using any team provided you are masochistic enough

I think this is the keypoint in the end. FGO is still a game, and how YOU yourself have fun should not matter to anyone else. And don`t let others spoiling your way of playing the game.

Ppl sometimes starting to argue over non important things in a mostly player vs environment game. I still like Tamamo, I still like Scathach, I will keep using them until I stop having fun - simple as that! Kappa

ps: Poster Girl is a pretty busted CE, not sure if JP got any newer and revamped version but GOD I abuse the taunt mechanic sometimes

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4 hours ago, QKumber said:

I think this is the keypoint in the end. FGO is still a game, and how YOU yourself have fun should not matter to anyone else. And don`t let others spoiling your way of playing the game.

Ppl sometimes starting to argue over non important things in a mostly player vs environment game. I still like Tamamo, I still like Scathach, I will keep using them until I stop having fun - simple as that! Kappa

I agree completely. I have my share of favorites that I enjoy using too, even if they aren’t always the best choice.

Even so, if needed I will still be objective about how they perform gameplaywise. By doing this it helps me and other people understand the game better.

Quote

ps: Poster Girl is a pretty busted CE, not sure if JP got any newer and revamped version but GOD I abuse the taunt mechanic sometimes

There is no CE like Poster Girl in JP, and for good reason. A three-turn unremovable taunt is incredibly versatile no matter what team you use.

Ever since I rolled it during the rerun I question how I ever played NA for two years without it.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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Well I learned something interesting today---when you level up, you also get your raid point energy bar thing fully refilled.

 

Pity it's kind of a giant hassle to do the 3BP raid with my non-Bond 10 units---current team is all arts, so it basically costs me 20 currency every 3 BP run. Then again, spamming 3 BP will probably get me to like 800M damage or some nonsense, so I'll probably end up spamming 1BPs later just to use up all my raid point refills.

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I’m getting a bit frustrated with the red oni boss in the Onigashima event, he’s not as simple as the previous two. There’s no easy counter, like Rider Kintoki, Medb and Euryale were before.

And his crit debuff makes thing harder for my Jack.

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I just solo him with MHX or use Arts cheese feat. Shiki. He’s pretty easy.

Also, he drops feathers and hearts. Go ham.

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I am running a Melt as the Spearhead unit and couple of non bond10 supports. In my case, AssScathach to clear Kyohime and draw some aggro + any support with mlb + drop CE

 

Yeha, red oni is kinda annoying to go optimal in my case aswell, but even then you can solo him with units like Stheno so... 😛

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I’ve beaten the Red Oni a couple times, but there are several others where I could only get it to 1mil or so before the time runs out. I usually use a support Shiki along with Ibaraki and Merlin, with Jack tucked in the back. I’m contemplating about replacing Merlin with Tamamo though, since she has better chemistry with Shiki and Ibaraki rarely gets past five or so rounds. This raid in particular isn’t very caster friendly either, though Merlin’s surprisingly comes through most of the time, probably because unlike so many enemy riders the Oni isn’t prone to obnoxiously critting every three seconds. Hell, the raid Ibaraki tended to be nightmare in comparison due to being a Chimera in disguise.

In other news, Kerry decided to join the team after throwing in a ticket. I’ll take it, always had a liking to him and more available assassins are welcome. Sadly he’ll likely just be getting the scraps from what Kintoki doesn’t gulp down, and I’m mass stockpiling assassin embers for summer Shishou.

Edited by Silverly

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I’m torn between using either Jack or Melt for the Red Oni. I think I’m gonna go Jack because she resist Rider. Worst part is that when I can’t kill Kyohime in the first turn, she tends to crit. It’s so infuriating.

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15 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I’m torn between using either Jack or Melt for the Red Oni. I think I’m gonna go Jack because she resist Rider. Worst part is that when I can’t kill Kyohime in the first turn, she tends to crit. It’s so infuriating.

Use Jack solo and throw an NP at her.

How many damage CEs you got? MHX at NP1 and no buffs overkills Kiyo by like 400k HP.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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9 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Use Jack solo and throw an NP at her.

How many damage CEs you got? MHX at NP1 and no buffs overkills Kiyo by like 400k HP.

I have a full team of Hot Springs CE, and a Sumo CE for the main attacker.

Is it really worth wasting an NP on Kiyo? Feels like a waste I can solo her with a Brave chain, though I suppose I can’t always chain.

Edited by Water Mage

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3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I’m getting a bit frustrated with the red oni boss in the Onigashima event, he’s not as simple as the previous two. There’s no easy counter, like Rider Kintoki, Medb and Euryale were before.

And his crit debuff makes thing harder for my Jack.

Mind that the crit debuff is additive with bonus damage, so it doesn't actually do anything once you have enough CEs, which you should. (That is, it's subtracting from your gigantic 500-600% rather than from just 100-200%, so the effect is a lot less.)

15 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I have a full team of Hot Springs CE, and a Sumo CE for the main attacker.

Is it really worth wasting an NP on Kiyo? Feels like a waste I can solo her with a Brave chain, though I suppose I can’t always chain.

Personally I always toss an NP at the 'support' unit---my team is pretty heavy on NP gen, though. The Blue Oni tends to die within 2 card rotations and 4 of those tend to be Artoria's NP, the Red Oni takes longer since my Jack isn't nearly as invested as my Artoria, but I run a stronger team for the Red Oni so it takes about 2 card rotations as well.

That said, Kiyo is a Berserker, so maybe I should try a double damage dealer lineup to just brave chain her down---I'll probably try that once I farm up a second MLB sumo.

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1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

I have a full team of Hot Springs CE, and a Sumo CE for the main attacker.

Is it really worth wasting an NP on Kiyo? Feels like a waste I can solo her with a Brave chain, though I suppose I can’t always chain.

My damage bonus is 800%

200% from MLB Sumo + 300% from 3 MLB Onsen + 100% from 2 non LB Onsen. Fighting Spirit EX gives another 200%. Then I pop a Quick seed for 50% Quick Up.

I just use a team of Lv 1 taunters and my MHX. Default MC.

NP’ing Kiyo is no big deal because the Oni dies after 3-4 NPs.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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Even if this oni isn't a Saber Euryale makes mince meat out of it all the same. 3M NPs with fast charge rates is very nice and I'm happy because I haven't used Euryale since GudaGuda 2. 

On other news, I couldn't stop myself from throwing tickets to get Suzuka because I have no patience and couldn't wait for Tamamo's rate up. No Suzuka for me but I got this:

Spoiler

0TcSTXg.png

I know for a fact she's very strong but how good is she on boss battles? I have Fran/Spartacus/Kiyo for farming so there's like 0 need for Raikou there. I'm asking just to make sure if I should bother leveling her skills or if I can leave her at 1/1/1 until MHXA is done.

 

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16 hours ago, Alexmender said:

I know for a fact she's very strong but how good is she on boss battles? I have Fran/Spartacus/Kiyo for farming so there's like 0 need for Raikou there. I'm asking just to make sure if I should bother leveling her skills or if I can leave her at 1/1/1 until MHXA is done.

I don't have her but I just got her as well so I did some reading and test drive using support Raikou. She is pretty awesome for farming. As for boss battle, if the enemy fit the two traits listed in her 3rd skill it's pretty much close a ST damage (after adding her 2nd skill which is increase buster dmg). So maybe just focus on leveling her 2nd and 3rd skill. Her NP gain is considerably slow though, not sure how it compare to Spartacus or Kiyo since I haven't use both yet.

 

Alas, I can't believe I did 20mil in two days from scratch. Was worried I might not be able to get the welfare servant due to work like CCC (missed out on BB ascension materials totally) but I finally have sufficient currency to get all copies from shop.

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Ushi Gozen has...a lot of hp. I can see why the raid is 3 days long.

I mean, she isn’t a hard boss at all. Hell, she’s even easier than all 3 oni. But that’s still a lot of hp.

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4 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

I don't have her but I just got her as well so I did some reading and test drive using support Raikou. She is pretty awesome for farming. As for boss battle, if the enemy fit the two traits listed in her 3rd skill it's pretty much close a ST damage (after adding her 2nd skill which is increase buster dmg). So maybe just focus on leveling her 2nd and 3rd skill. Her NP gain is considerably slow though, not sure how it compare to Spartacus or Kiyo since I haven't use both yet.

True, true. If I recall correctly the only enemies that get hit by both conditions on her third skill are oni servants (Shuten, Banana and Tomoe). I don't know if they're common as bosses or anything but it's worth keeping it in mind. I guess I'll try to get her up to 6/6/6 and then she'll be on the wait list until MHXA reaches 10/10/10. Thanks! 

For farming Hands/Doors/Low Hp mobs Spartacus is king thanks to his NP charge skill but he struggles to beat high Hp mobs without external buffs. Fran deals the most dmg with a K-scope and Waver/Helena's NP charge thanks to her high NP multiplier and with her targeted Def down she can take a good chunk if not outright kill a mini boss/high Hp mob making her very useful for dealing with bulkier waves and also generates a good amount of stars for the 3rd wave but she stuns herself after using her NP making her a 1 time use servant. Kiyo is middle of the road with her best feat being her high NP gain for a Zerker but she's frail and her dmg isn't all that high but she can get the job done for Hands/Doors.

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6 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

I don't have her but I just got her as well so I did some reading and test drive using support Raikou. She is pretty awesome for farming. As for boss battle, if the enemy fit the two traits listed in her 3rd skill it's pretty much close a ST damage (after adding her 2nd skill which is increase buster dmg). So maybe just focus on leveling her 2nd and 3rd skill.

Raikou's skill order is 1>2>3. She needs Eternal Arms Mastery up as much as possible @Alexmender

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