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Took me like 40 gold apples to farm a copy of Dive to Blue, feelsbadman.

 

Honestly I'm pretty alright with Rider Alter after using her a bit, main issue with her is that she really wanted to have Alter's spread (high Atk, low Hp), rather than normal Artoria's HP focused spread. She's pretty much a dedicated secondary damage dealer, though, thanks to the way her deck and kit ends up working. If you want 80% Quick Up two of her cards are illegal to click, and outside of that Coaching's probably better spent on someone else. Someone else who, ideally, clicks their cards (with good hit-counts) a lot.

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5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Took me like 40 gold apples to farm a copy of Dive to Blue, feelsbadman.

 

Honestly I'm pretty alright with Rider Alter after using her a bit, main issue with her is that she really wanted to have Alter's spread (high Atk, low Hp), rather than normal Artoria's HP focused spread. She's pretty much a dedicated secondary damage dealer, though, thanks to the way her deck and kit ends up working. If you want 80% Quick Up two of her cards are illegal to click, and outside of that Coaching's probably better spent on someone else. Someone else who, ideally, clicks their cards (with good hit-counts) a lot.

 

Im surprised you didnt bring up that her 2nd skill is stun but worse :v

 

 

today on SQ round. Nero bride become slightly worser than Skadi with 30 battery on 1st and Saberlot got buffed after he got powercreeped by everyone

 

 

Actually its Boudica. She get teamwide roman and crit damage boost. But lets be honest any critical damage boost on a Rider that isnt Bart might as well says Saberlot exclusive and nothing will change

 

Boud Buff.... is actually OK had Roman bossfights become a common thing

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Boudica could be plugsuited out after putting up her crit and arts buffs if you don't have better options for some reason, but until we either get a CE that's for lowering star weight or a star weight down in her kit, I don't think she's doing much else.  

We really need star weight down and more buff success CEs.  Hans is itching for a 4* buff success CE as MLB Aoi only gives 15%.

 

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The last duo to get a buff is Maid Alter and Gawain.

Maid Alter’s buff is...weird, but Gawain’s is pretty good!

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So, now that we have all the strengthening's let's see how accurate my guess list was:

Day 2: SR Lancer + SR Avenger = Medusa Lily and Gorgon

Day 3: SSR Rider + R Rider = Iskandar and Alexander 

Day 4: SR Caster + R Assassin = Miyu and Kotarou

Day 5: SSR Saber + R Rider = Either Arthur or Mordred and Boudica

Day 6: SSR Assassin + SR Ruler = Mysterious Heroine X and Swimsuit Martha

Day 7: SSR Rider + SR Saber = Swimsuit SAlter and Siegfried

So I got three wrong.  Honestly the only one of the buffs I'm really upset about was Nero Bride, already one of the best SSR Sabers, getting it over Mordred Instinct upgrade or Arthur NP Interlude.  Siegfried I mainly guessed due to his costume, Gawain honestly needed it more, and man the buff he got is pretty amazing since it means his first skill will always work.  Miyu may still be bad, but Medea Lily upgrade was nice.

I am a bit sad there was nothing for Diarmuid Lancer, but ROMA getting buffed was genuinely needed unlike a certain blue doggo last year, so I'm not as bitter.  It also helps that it was on the first day so I could get my disappointment out of the way fast.  And my sadness is counteracted by the fact they finally buffed Broskandar.  Both og and the mini one.  Thanks DW!

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From this batch of refines, I think that Gawain got the best, maid alter got the worst, and Bride Nero is the most unnecessary. The rest are good more the most part.

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Nero Bride > iskandar = Gorgon = Gawain > Martha = Boudica > the rest > malter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literal shit > garbage > medea Lilly

 

Nero bride buff is good, nothing to say there

 

Iskandar and Gorgon basically got critical status, giving them something they want

Gawain buff make him actually function

Martha buff is outright good because Interlude is the strongest buff a servant can get in general

Boudica buff gave her a very very strong application when its required.

The rest is reserved for pools that get "basically Charisma". Its good, its boring, but its servicable

 

Malter is meh

 

Medea Lilly is the single most toxic, stupid, dumb, obnoxiously annoying, and cancerous move in the game in the entirety of 2019 if not the entire history of the game's run that starts with Nobu Avenger 2nd skill. Regardless of its objective quality its something thats outright NOT good for the game and its shameful DW even stood so low to do that. FUCK THAT. FUCK everything associated with that. Its literally something thats only done by shameless company like Konami

 

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Medea Lilly is the single most toxic, stupid, dumb, obnoxiously annoying, and cancerous move in the game in the entirety of 2019 if not the entire history of the game's run that starts with Nobu Avenger 2nd skill. Regardless of its objective quality its something thats outright NOT good for the game and its shameful DW even stood so low to do that. FUCK THAT. FUCK everything associated with that. Its literally something thats only done by shameless company like Konami 

 

Servants don't usually get strengthened skills or NPs when they're bosses though?  Only ones I can remember are third skills that were added by Strengthens.

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13 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner I don't understand your point. What is the issue with Medea's lily buff? Is it fear of later challenge maps having more buff removal tools?

Given the reference to Nobuvenger, it's likely the possibility of future boss fights being able to randomly gain buff removal immunity, potentially throwing a wrench in whatever strategy you're using, especially if they also have an invincible or evade up (though it does make Invincibility Ignore and Sure Hit potentially more useful).

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Bull of heaven was surprisingly hard---I could get it down to around 200k with just about every team comp I built, but I ended up getting lazy and just command seal'd my way through it after all. If Ishtar hadn't been dropping 10k crits all over the place I can probably just bum rush the bull down, but the fact that I needed to kill her quickly meant I had to go into round 2 with my buffs falling off. (There's probably a team comp that kills Ishtar by sacrificing front-liners, letting me go into bull with all my buffs ready, but I was too lazy to look for it.)

 

Mebd's CQ, on the other hand, was trivial. Low incoming damage + low hp = face roll.

Edited by DehNutCase

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Buff/debuff removal outside the relevant command codes is honestly ridiculously powerful anyway, since it just clears everything no questions asked aside from Yu/Nobuvenger/Buffed Medea Lily's resistance buffs.  At the very least, these buffs existing makes Amakusa/Abby less of a headache as an enemy.

Though the concern about it on bosses seems odd considering the most dangerous buffs that bosses get tend to be specifically designated as unremovable.  The only recent example I can think of where said buffs are removable is the fight right before Old Li in LB3, which just resulted in the fight being absolutely stomped by Amakusa's existence.  

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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8 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Murasaki, Beni-enma, Qin Liangyu and Ereshkigal also have buff removal resistance.

My bad, I thought it was introduced on Yu for whatever reason.  that's what I get for being unable to read skill effects while I play JP

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16 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Servants don't usually get strengthened skills or NPs when they're bosses though?  Only ones I can remember are third skills that were added by Strengthens.

I dont hate it because it affect bossfights otherwise i would hate Miyu

 

No i simply hate it because its FGO's equivalent of Yugioh shortprintI.

m ok with it when it was on birb(its the first time so theres "experimentation" excuse and Benienma seems to be designed for checking purpose anyway), indiffernet on Semiramis(seems to be done in wake of Yu), but went apeshit when its included on Nobuvenger - which bad as she is im ok with EXCEPT her 2nd skill. Medea Lilly is the straw that broke it since its really clear now thats EXACTLY what they do

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4 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I dont hate it because it affect bossfights otherwise i would hate Miyu

 

No i simply hate it because its FGO's equivalent of Yugioh shortprintI.

m ok with it when it was on birb(its the first time so theres "experimentation" excuse and Benienma seems to be designed for checking purpose anyway), indiffernet on Semiramis(seems to be done in wake of Yu), but went apeshit when its included on Nobuvenger - which bad as she is im ok with EXCEPT her 2nd skill. Medea Lilly is the straw that broke it since its really clear now thats EXACTLY what they do

I'm not sure I understand your complaint then, because I don't get the comparison to short prints.  From what I understand, short prints were basically unmarked rare cards that were supposed to be commons (I'm not familiar with Yu-gi-oh, so this is just what I got from Google).  But the comparison doesn't make sense to me, because they've been introducing more buff removal resistance recently (both self only and team).

Also, Nobuvenger doesn't seem to fit with the rest of those you brought up.  Beni-enma, Semiramis, Murasaki and Medea Lily are team buffs, while Nobuvenger, Ereshkigal, Hokusai, Yu, and Qin Liangyu are selfish.  The only way Beni-enma can be the first time for it is if you're referring to the team buff, but Nobuvenger's isn't a team buff, it's a selfish "I'm invincible this turn and there's nothing you can do about it".

Edit:  Wait, is your issue with the effect that it's primarily available on "limited" Servants (insofar as no one is likely to roll on Story for Medea Lily)?  Would you no longer have an issue if more permanent Servants started getting the effect like Liangyu?

Edited by YotsuMaboroshi

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@YotsuMaboroshi Buff removal immunity is a filler skill effect. Instead of making a buff that is meaningful to the servant's usefulness, it's just been tacked on to servants that don't need it.

You won't suddenly use Medea Lily now that she has her skill buff, nor does Nobu having it make her an option over other Buster AOEs.

 

It doesn't help that buff removal is extremely rare, and when it does appear it can be played around.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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10 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

I'm not sure I understand your complaint then, because I don't get the comparison to short prints.  From what I understand, short prints were basically unmarked rare cards that were supposed to be commons (I'm not familiar with Yu-gi-oh, so this is just what I got from Google).  But the comparison doesn't make sense to me, because they've been introducing more buff removal resistance recently (both self only and team).

Also, Nobuvenger doesn't seem to fit with the rest of those you brought up.  Beni-enma, Semiramis, Murasaki and Medea Lily are team buffs, while Nobuvenger, Ereshkigal, Hokusai, Yu, and Qin Liangyu are selfish.  The only way Beni-enma can be the first time for it is if you're referring to the team buff, but Nobuvenger's isn't a team buff, it's a selfish "I'm invincible this turn and there's nothing you can do about it".

Edit:  Wait, is your issue with the effect that it's primarily available on "limited" Servants (insofar as no one is likely to roll on Story for Medea Lily)?  Would you no longer have an issue if more permanent Servants started getting the effect like Liangyu?

Short Print is a thing Konami TCG have been reported doing where the ratio per box of rarer cards is slanted towards stuff thats known to be less popular. A particularly egregious case of this was one recent set that only includes "for fun" cards(for lack of better words) and the 2 most popular target card group of said pack is explicitly less that iirc someone went 10 box without one. Small simple size i know

The comparison i made was more in a sense that they used it as a filler, which is akin to the increased amount of filler shit that could have been used for something else more important

 

I primarilly had issues with it from experience in other gachas where they, for example introduced a particular weak effect and for an entire development cycle, basically slap it willy nilly for no reason whatsoever to fill out the "power budget quota" of the product. For example in Brave Frontier, an average 7* used to be budgeted under say 4 effect. 1 of those effect slot is filled by "anti status down" which is a really shit buff but slapped on everyone for no reason. In so far, Buffwipe immunity have been going under the same direction and its really stupid. Card Type debuff USED to be this but Card Type debuff used to make much more sense

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I think I get where you're coming from now.  Too used to people complaining about things being overpowered rather than the reverse.

On the other hand, higher availability of the effect opens design space for more buff removal demerits like Yu and Salome.  DW tends to play safe with Servant design though, so I'm not sure I expect them to try and make use of that.

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48 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

I think I get where you're coming from now.  Too used to people complaining about things being overpowered rather than the reverse.

On the other hand, higher availability of the effect opens design space for more buff removal demerits like Yu and Salome.  DW tends to play safe with Servant design though, so I'm not sure I expect them to try and make use of that.

I actually had a discussion about that yesterday and i kinda disagree. To put it into tl;dr, after year 1, FGO averages 8 SSR released on the first half of the year before Summer season which had the highest unit release concentration in the game, before it wane off again. We can agree here SSR is the best "power ceiling" viewpoint besides whackfest like Kintoki and Parvati, so heres the point with it.

 

Assuming that, they only have to release 1 servant of every class + 1 Extra class and call it a day per year before moving into Summer + leftovers phase

 

Its not so much that DW tend to play save nor controlling power creep(i know you didn't bring it up ever but eh) really well. The slow release of this game is such that they'd take very long just to do what i'd like to call "niche inclusion" so theyre not as easilly have to went back towards crazy releases. 2018-2019 introduction of the Lost Belt Monarch series was a major upscale in strong releases, and between LB3 to LB4 is half a year and then some. The only Lost Belt tier upscale in the game's run was the Camelot cycle that released a servant so good it killed the entire rarity he's in for 3 years and then majorly revamps every servant on his category for years to come, and then some insanely good SSR which may or may not includes Summer servant, and the stretch between Babylon into New Year that closes out Part 1, that really started with Solomon

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28 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I actually had a discussion about that yesterday and i kinda disagree. To put it into tl;dr, after year 1, FGO averages 8 SSR released on the first half of the year before Summer season which had the highest unit release concentration in the game, before it wane off again. We can agree here SSR is the best "power ceiling" viewpoint besides whackfest like Kintoki and Parvati, so heres the point with it.

 

Assuming that, they only have to release 1 servant of every class + 1 Extra class and call it a day per year before moving into Summer + leftovers phase

 

Its not so much that DW tend to play save nor controlling power creep(i know you didn't bring it up ever but eh) really well. The slow release of this game is such that they'd take very long just to do what i'd like to call "niche inclusion" so theyre not as easilly have to went back towards crazy releases. 2018-2019 introduction of the Lost Belt Monarch series was a major upscale in strong releases, and between LB3 to LB4 is half a year and then some. The only Lost Belt tier upscale in the game's run was the Camelot cycle that released a servant so good it killed the entire rarity he's in for 3 years and then majorly revamps every servant on his category for years to come, and then some insanely good SSR which may or may not includes Summer servant, and the stretch between Babylon into New Year that closes out Part 1, that really started with Solomon

Point taken regarding the slow release, but I wasn't actually referring to SSR when talking about 'safe' releases.  The R and SR Servants are where you'd expect them to try experimenting more, because in general they pull less money.  By game design they also facilitate niche team building a bit more, due to lower cost allowing greater flexibility for the rest of the team and CEs.

On one hand, your point about the slow releases applies even more for R and SR, because there are generally fewer of them, and they come in bursts, rather than the steady stream SSRs do.  On the other hand, because they release things slow, you'd expect more experimental designs to end up as R and SR because they'd be unsure of player reaction.  The second is admittedly less of an issue this year, as we've definitely gotten more experimental R and SR servants than before, along with the new bronzes.

CEs tend to suffer from this too, as we hardly see much variety.  They just tend to recombine the same effects in different quantities.

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Looks like the new JP Summer Servants aren’t very impressive. In particular, Musashi has a skill with 5000 HP demerit. Whose idea was to give that sort of demerit to a Berserker?!

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17 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Looks like the new JP Summer Servants aren’t very impressive. In particular, Musashi has a skill with 5000 HP demerit. Whose idea was to give that sort of demerit to a Berserker?!

That demerit didnt fucking matter for turn 1, lets not forget Tamamo's heal is ALWAYS wasted on like every other servant ever, and she have accel turn as a safety net. And no this batch of summer servant is pretty insanely good. or at least Musashi is solid, and Hokusai is CLEARLY frigging amazing, and Osa is ruined by being AOE when otherwise she outpower Qin Shin Huang

 

Musashi have Sieg Refill tier on an AOE Berserker. Shes shaky but thats a really good unit type

 

Carmilla is about as sad as the rarity she is in >_>

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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Looks like we also know who the remaining three summer servants are

Spoiler

Melt, who was highly speculated after Passionlip was revealed to be a bonus servant

Okita, the much memed and requested Saberface

and... Lion King Artoria??? Huh, didn’t see that one coming.

 

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