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Best and Worst Units


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1 hour ago, Weeping__Dalek said:

So you spend several hundred getting 1 EXP per turn with Wendy against Legance?

Wendy didn't tend to miss that much (well, iirc, at least), so she did get more than 1 EXP. Then again, I RNG abused, so maybe that's why.

 

Edited by Flee Fleet!
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Efficient-wise I think these are the best/worst units:

FE6 Best: Allen, Lance, Melady, Perceval, Larffin

FE6 Worst: Sophia, Cath, Wendy

 

FE7 Best: Marcus, Lowen, Sain, Kent, Pent, Priscilla, Raven, Ninils

FE7 Worst: Karla, Nino, Wallace, Wil, Rebecca, Rath, Renault

 

FE8 Best: Seth, Franz, Vanessa, Ephraim, Tethys

FE8 Worst: Ewan, Amelia, Marisa

 

Of course, units with higher movement tend to do better, so they're the better units in the game, bad units are just worthless, never worth investing into,detrimental to even use them.

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On 7/19/2017 at 9:51 PM, Weeping__Dalek said:

He'll need ONE Secret Book? He basically calls a monopoly on Secret Books. Also Geese as a Berserker and Garret can move through Peaks.

Lilina and Echidna are the only two of those that I could see myself using, I typically do use Lilina already, but I have better people to give that B support with Lilina to, specifically Ogier if I decide to use him or Astore and when you have Geese who hits way more reliably than Gonzales, especially as a Berserker, what reason do I have to use Gonzales?

How about the fact that, despite his worse Skl, he is pretty much statistically better than Geese? I hate to break it to you, but Geese isn't actually anything special himself. And I would rather have poor Skl than poor Spd. Since the former can be easily worked around. To say nothing of the fact that Ogier's nothing special himself either, and that Astolfo has better things to do than set up a Light/Dark support combo with Lilina. 

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1 hour ago, Just call me AL said:

I hate to break it to you, but Geese isn't actually anything special himself

Good thing about Geese though is that, iirc, he has better balanced base stats, all of them being close in number (except for Res, obviously), and he comes with a Brave Axe in route A. His growths aren't too bad either.

However, as Gonzales has a high Speed and Strength growth, has more room to level up in route A, and also gets hard mode bonuses, he certainly seems more preferable than Geese.

 

Edited by Flee Fleet!
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3 hours ago, JSND said:

If you actually want to use Gonzo, the higher level version is actually better

Well, that is, if anyone wants to get him promoted immediately (or faster as getting him to level 20 takes less time). Otherwise, the lower level version's stats would be more higher because he has an extra 6 levels to grow. I also forgot to mention that he has a higher axe rank in route A.

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12 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

How about the fact that, despite his worse Skl, he is pretty much statistically better than Geese? I hate to break it to you, but Geese isn't actually anything special himself. And I would rather have poor Skl than poor Spd. Since the former can be easily worked around. To say nothing of the fact that Ogier's nothing special himself either, and that Astolfo has better things to do than set up a Light/Dark support combo with Lilina. 

You do have a point, but Gonzales is still pretty bad - poor skill generally is trivial... except when you're also locked to a drearily inaccurate weapon type, that is (to put it into perspective, pretty much every axe not named Iron or Killer has 55 hit or less). And I don't think the rest of Gonzales's package makes up for that. Needing a Hero Crest certainly doesn't help...

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On 7/19/2017 at 8:09 PM, Flee Fleet! said:

Wendy didn't tend to miss that much (well, iirc, at least), so she did get more than 1 EXP. Then again, I RNG abused, so maybe that's why.

 

I'm pretty sure no damage is 1 EXP as well, and good luck getting Wendy to do damage to Legance. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly and it's only misses that causes you to get 1 EXP

 

On 7/21/2017 at 10:03 PM, Just call me AL said:

How about the fact that, despite his worse Skl, he is pretty much statistically better than Geese? I hate to break it to you, but Geese isn't actually anything special himself. And I would rather have poor Skl than poor Spd. Since the former can be easily worked around. To say nothing of the fact that Ogier's nothing special himself either, and that Astolfo has better things to do than set up a Light/Dark support combo with Lilina. 

He's fast, but if he never hits anything why does it matter?

On 7/21/2017 at 11:56 PM, Flee Fleet! said:

Good thing about Geese though is that, iirc, he has better balanced base stats, all of them being close in number (except for Res, obviously), and he comes with a Brave Axe in route A. His growths aren't too bad either.

However, as Gonzales has a high Speed and Strength growth, has more room to level up in route A, and also gets hard mode bonuses, he certainly seems more preferable than Geese.

 

I generally favour skill when selecting an axe user, therefore Geese>Gonzales by that virtue

On 7/22/2017 at 2:38 AM, JSND said:

If you actually want to use Gonzo, the higher level version is actually better

How? He has lower weapon ranks and the same bases being 6 levels higher

On 7/22/2017 at 6:10 AM, Flee Fleet! said:

Well, that is, if anyone wants to get him promoted immediately (or faster as getting him to level 20 takes less time). Otherwise, the lower level version's stats would be more higher because he has an extra 6 levels to grow. I also forgot to mention that he has a higher axe rank in route A.

The only reason to early promote Gonzales is that +5 Skill to help him hit stuff

On 7/22/2017 at 10:17 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You do have a point, but Gonzales is still pretty bad - poor skill generally is trivial... except when you're also locked to a drearily inaccurate weapon type, that is (to put it into perspective, pretty much every axe not named Iron or Killer has 55 hit or less). And I don't think the rest of Gonzales's package makes up for that. Needing a Hero Crest certainly doesn't help...

Poor Skill is generally not an issue I agree, for example, Lilina has terrible Skill, but she can hit stuff because Anima magic is in general pretty accurate and her supports help her with that, specifically with Roy. Gonzales' supports don't help him hit with the least accurate weapon type in the game. This is why I don't like axes in general, they have too much difficulty hitting and axe users tend to have low Skill, which makes me want to bench them ASAP. Geese's Skill is decent, with 4 more base Skill and twice the growth in that stat

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10 minutes ago, Weeping__Dalek said:

How? He has lower weapon ranks and the same bases being 6 levels higher

The only reason to early promote Gonzales is that +5 Skill to help him hit stuff

Exactly because he's 6 level higher. His Wrank is irrelevant since he already wield like every good weapon at base anyway.

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I'd say

Best

FE6: Lugh (Literally the best unit in the game, destroys everything he touches), Raigh, Milady, Gonzales, Allen/Lance, Deke, Rutger

FE7: Hector, Raven, Oswin, Pent, Lucius, Farina

FE8: Seth (God-tier), Ephraim, Gilliam, Tana, Lute, Gerik, Joshua

Worst

FE6: Sophia, Cecilia (I would put Wendy on here but my current and only Wendy is doing impossibly well, can't say much about Juno or Dayan)

FE7: Eliwood (No joke, I stand by this), Karla (Haven't used, don't want to), Nino, Wallace (If you're not using Oswin, you're most likely not using a General at all), Dorcas, and Bartre.

FE8: Ewan, Amelia, and Knoll

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On 7/19/2017 at 9:51 PM, Weeping__Dalek said:

and when you have Geese who hits way more reliably than Gonzales, especially as a Berserker, what reason do I have to use Gonzales?

Because on HM, Gonzo gets crazy bonuses, and has enough STR to use an iron axe (the most accurate axe, along with killer) right off the get-go without problems. His promo bonuses are good, and he has enough of a defense growth and speed growth along with his HP growth to make him more durable than a lot of other units.

People also like to bitch and moan about axe accuracy like Wade/Lot are using them the whole game. Lategame is chocked full of wyverns, and anyone who doesn't value Gonzo has never seen him take out wave after wave of wyverns in Ch21 on hard, saving so much time on a crunch level that it's ridiculous. His hit rates against a lance heavy late-game are usually about 80+%, which is even better with true hit. He also goes twice more often than not, and he really only needs one good smack. Dude has like 15 con, which is awesome.

Is he top 5? No. But he he a dangerous, and very viable unit on HM. On normal I'd agree to go with Geese, and I usually do, but on hard I go Gonzo or go home. Really no one better to use those skill books on anyway.

Best/worst in 6 are pretty much well covered otherwise, so I don't know what else I could add to that discussion.

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15 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Because on HM, Gonzo gets crazy bonuses, and has enough STR to use an iron axe (the most accurate axe, along with killer) right off the get-go without problems. His promo bonuses are good, and he has enough of a defense growth and speed growth along with his HP growth to make him more durable than a lot of other units.

People also like to bitch and moan about axe accuracy like Wade/Lot are using them the whole game. Lategame is chocked full of wyverns, and anyone who doesn't value Gonzo has never seen him take out wave after wave of wyverns in Ch21 on hard, saving so much time on a crunch level that it's ridiculous. His hit rates against a lance heavy late-game are usually about 80+%, which is even better with true hit. He also goes twice more often than not, and he really only needs one good smack. Dude has like 15 con, which is awesome.

Is he top 5? No. But he he a dangerous, and very viable unit on HM. On normal I'd agree to go with Geese, and I usually do, but on hard I go Gonzo or go home. Really no one better to use those skill books on anyway.

Best/worst in 6 are pretty much well covered otherwise, so I don't know what else I could add to that discussion.

Because unlike you, I'd rather not continually have to pray that dealing with Gonzales's lack of accuracy doesn't wind up with one of my other units paying with their lives for his incompetence. Also, one chapter of glory doesn't even come close to making up for the fact that Gonzales forces me to gamble every time he sees combat. I'm not saying he's unusable, but I honestly think I could get more mileage out of using the Hero Crest Gonzales needs on anyone else, besides the fighters.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because unlike you, I'd rather not continually have to pray that dealing with Gonzales's lack of accuracy doesn't wind up with one of my other units paying with their lives for his incompetence. Also, one chapter of glory doesn't even come close to making up for the fact that Gonzales forces me to gamble every time he sees combat. I'm not saying he's unusable, but I honestly think I could get more mileage out of using the Hero Crest Gonzales needs on anyone else, besides the fighters.

Then don't pray? This is 6, any non-sword user is doing a bit of praying. 

Also, he was useful for a lot more than just one chapter, let me tell you. And if you play FE well, you plan for every contingency the best you can, so if your units are dying because of one miss, well, play better?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you the same guy who hates berserkers in fates just because they can get crit on more often? If so you (or that guy) kinda has a point, but is way too irrational about it to really be taken seriously. It's Fire Emblem, risk is inherent, and Gonzo on HM is one of the more solid unit picks the game has to offer.

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39 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Then don't pray? This is 6, any non-sword user is doing a bit of praying. 

Also, he was useful for a lot more than just one chapter, let me tell you. And if you play FE well, you plan for every contingency the best you can, so if your units are dying because of one miss, well, play better?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you the same guy who hates berserkers in fates just because they can get crit on more often? If so you (or that guy) kinda has a point, but is way too irrational about it to really be taken seriously. It's Fire Emblem, risk is inherent, and Gonzo on HM is one of the more solid unit picks the game has to offer.

Whilst that might be true, it's most apparent with axe users, considering the most accurate ones have all of 65 hit, and most of the axe users don't have the skill to make up for this.

Well, it might be an extreme example, but nonetheless, it goes to show that Gonzales's accuracy woes can be a severe impediment, because I have to have other units clean up his messes.

Yes, I am that same guy who thinks Berserkers are bad in Fates because they have an innate crit evade penalty, thus making them high risk units that aren't very rewarding to use because crit is extremely lopsided in terms of usefulness. It doesn't help that the two fighters you get in Fates are pretty damn awful. And granted, Fire Emblem does have some inherent risk, but to be completely frank, and blunt, I consider Gonzales, even on hard mode, to have a damning weakness that the rest of his package doesn't make up for (there are all of two secret books in the game, and one of those is route dependent, and his support list is pretty questionable overall).

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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4 hours ago, JSND said:

Exactly because he's 6 level higher. His Wrank is irrelevant since he already wield like every good weapon at base anyway.

If you need to be promoted to be passable, I personally think it isn't worth it

1 hour ago, SaXor the Nobody said:

I'd say

Best

FE6: Lugh (Literally the best unit in the game, destroys everything he touches), Raigh, Milady, Gonzales, Allen/Lance, Deke, Rutger

FE7: Hector, Raven, Oswin, Pent, Lucius, Farina

FE8: Seth (God-tier), Ephraim, Gilliam, Tana, Lute, Gerik, Joshua

Worst

FE6: Sophia, Cecilia (I would put Wendy on here but my current and only Wendy is doing impossibly well, can't say much about Juno or Dayan)

FE7: Eliwood (No joke, I stand by this), Karla (Haven't used, don't want to), Nino, Wallace (If you're not using Oswin, you're most likely not using a General at all), Dorcas, and Bartre.

FE8: Ewan, Amelia, and Knoll

Please explain to me how Lugh is the absolute best unit in the game, he can't take physical hits, he can't Nosferatu tank, and is fairly easily able to get Magic screwed

I'm not saying Lugh is a bad unit, but better than Lance, Allen, Deke, Rutger and Miledy? I think not

Cecilia is pretty bad, but to be honest, she isn't as bad as some other prepromotes imo (Juno, for instance)

45 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Because on HM, Gonzo gets crazy bonuses, and has enough STR to use an iron axe (the most accurate axe, along with killer) right off the get-go without problems. His promo bonuses are good, and he has enough of a defense growth and speed growth along with his HP growth to make him more durable than a lot of other units.

People also like to bitch and moan about axe accuracy like Wade/Lot are using them the whole game. Lategame is chocked full of wyverns, and anyone who doesn't value Gonzo has never seen him take out wave after wave of wyverns in Ch21 on hard, saving so much time on a crunch level that it's ridiculous. His hit rates against a lance heavy late-game are usually about 80+%, which is even better with true hit. He also goes twice more often than not, and he really only needs one good smack. Dude has like 15 con, which is awesome.

Is he top 5? No. But he he a dangerous, and very viable unit on HM. On normal I'd agree to go with Geese, and I usually do, but on hard I go Gonzo or go home. Really no one better to use those skill books on anyway.

Best/worst in 6 are pretty much well covered otherwise, so I don't know what else I could add to that discussion.

 

30 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because unlike you, I'd rather not continually have to pray that dealing with Gonzales's lack of accuracy doesn't wind up with one of my other units paying with their lives for his incompetence. Also, one chapter of glory doesn't even come close to making up for the fact that Gonzales forces me to gamble every time he sees combat. I'm not saying he's unusable, but I honestly think I could get more mileage out of using the Hero Crest Gonzales needs on anyone else, besides the fighters.

 

24 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Then don't pray? This is 6, any non-sword user is doing a bit of praying. 

Also, he was useful for a lot more than just one chapter, let me tell you. And if you play FE well, you plan for every contingency the best you can, so if your units are dying because of one miss, well, play better?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you the same guy who hates berserkers in fates just because they can get crit on more often? If so you (or that guy) kinda has a point, but is way too irrational about it to really be taken seriously. It's Fire Emblem, risk is inherent, and Gonzo on HM is one of the more solid unit picks the game has to offer.

Please explain to me why I should subject myself to hoping Gonzales hits to train him in the midgame just for the last 4-5 chapters of the game, over Geese who will hit more reliably than Gonzales or one of the fighters who I've had since Chapter 2

He has low hit rates, even with the Iron and Killer Axes and weapon triangle, any sword user will destroy him (okay, to be fair, any sword user will destroy any axe-user that is not using a Swordreaver) and it doesn't help that if you mess up it's easy for him to suicide on your units when trying to recruit him and that he comes with the worst weapon in the game

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1 hour ago, Weeping__Dalek said:

Please explain to me how Lugh is the absolute best unit in the game, he can't take physical hits, he can't Nosferatu tank, and is fairly easily able to get Magic screwed

I'm not saying Lugh is a bad unit, but better than Lance, Allen, Deke, Rutger and Miledy? I think not

Cecilia is pretty bad, but to be honest, she isn't as bad as some other prepromotes imo (Juno, for instance)

Personally, I've never had a magic screwed Lugh and with a growth of 40%, while not as high as one would want it to be, is still usable. Plus magic is very strong in FE6 between just about everyone who's not a mage having relatively low res, the enemies mostly consisting of wyverns, and Aircalibur being as strong as Elfire, effective against fliers, and readily available. He's also the fastest of the three mages. Defensively, he's the middle ground mage. Lilina is more consistent offensively, but she's as durable as wet tissue paper and Hugh is definitely tankier, but not by much. He also joins much too late, so late that Lugh if one were to use him, would most likely already be promoted. He's also in the middle res wise with a growth of 30%, only 5% less than Lilina, but 15% more than Hugh. Nosferatu is particularly strong in FE6, but Druids aren't very common enemies in FE6 and only a few people can tank it better. To top it all off, he's good at dodging. Maybe I shouldn't have said that he's the best unit in the game but he's up there...but in the end, it's up to RNG.

About Cecilia, I'd have to disagree. FE6 is good at giving you prepromotes that are useful for at least their initial chapter. Klein is decent from the chapter you get him to pretty much the end as a flier killer, Igrene fills the same role, Echidna is decent, Bartre is good, Niime is at the very least a great physic bot, same for Yoder, Marcus is useful in the beginning, Percival is...Percival and Karel is Karel. I'd say she's more useful than Juno and maybe Dayan and Douglas but that's about it. She's not even useful in the chapter you get her in.
Sorry for the text wall btw.

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9 hours ago, Weeping__Dalek said:

I'm pretty sure no damage is 1 EXP as well, and good luck getting Wendy to do damage to Legance. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly and it's only misses that causes you to get 1 EXP

No you're not remembering incorrectly, and yeah, I think my memory's being faulty here. I can't remember exactly how I got her to damage Leyglance, or if I just got 1 exp every battle with him. I'll just play the chapter again some time later and check it myself, sorry.

 

5 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Because on HM, Gonzo gets crazy bonuses, and has enough STR to use an iron axe (the most accurate axe, along with killer) right off the get-go without problems. His promo bonuses are good, and he has enough of a defense growth and speed growth along with his HP growth to make him more durable than a lot of other units.

Enemies also become stronger in HM obviously, so I think his increased skill would only slightly increase his chances of hitting. Then again, I never played HM, so maybe I'm wrong.

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Best units:

FE6: Obviously Rutger, Milady, Percival, Dieck And Allance.

FE7: Can't say so because pretty much anyone can be used. Though to name a few, Raven, Hector, Eliwood, Lyn and Athos and just about any prepromote here.

Worst Units:

FE6: I'm actually quite surprised that no one has elaborated a lot of horrible units here. But just to name a few. Wade, Juno, Treck, Sophia, Barth, Wendy, Wolt, and Fae.

 

 

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Fun fact: Lalum!Gonzales' skill on 20/1 is one point higher than Allen's on the same level - 14.65 vs. 13.6. If the player promotes them earlier than that (say, Gonzo at level 12 and Allen at level 15), it's 13.45 (Gonzo) vs. 11.6 (Allen). An insta-promoted Elphin!Gonzales still got 12-13 skill, so that isn't particularly bad, either.

Gonzales doesn't have the Swiss Army Knife quality of a paladin, but I have to agree with ChibiToastExplosion that when he's good, he's very good. He's a bit weird in that he doesn't really have the ability to shine right when he joins, but as soon as the number of lance-wielding enemies increses, he's definitely a viable character. Not god-tier by a long shot (he just isn't consistent enough), but viable.

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2 hours ago, ping said:

Gonzales doesn't have the Swiss Army Knife quality of a paladin, but I have to agree with ChibiToastExplosion that when he's good, he's very good. He's a bit weird in that he doesn't really have the ability to shine right when he joins, but as soon as the number of lance-wielding enemies increses, he's definitely a viable character. Not god-tier by a long shot (he just isn't consistent enough), but viable.

Also trying to understand why Geese hits so so much more often.

Geese (highlighted skill/luck)
33 10 9 9 9 8 0 11 5
Gonzo (HM)
41 16 8 10 7 7 1 15 5

Both (can be ready for promotion) right away to get that +5 skill, and a skill book is available for both. Upon promotion instantly, they have 1 point difference (14,13 - 16,15 w/ book). With 10 levels, Geese will gain +3 (30%) skill while Gonzo will get 1-2 (15%) skill. Wow. So much more skill, I see what you guys mean, Gonzo can't hit shit.

Gonzo, w/ 10 levels & promote @ 15: 8(base)+2(skillbook)+1(level up, low average)+promo = 16 skill - not too shabby when WTA comes in to play.

Both have the same issue, the difference is that when Gonzo does hit, it makes way more of a difference, and his chunk lets him take hits better than Geese so he's a little more dependable overall. Normal mode it's the Geese show no problem, but on HM he has a chance to shine. He's also the most dangerous armads user the game has to offer, although with his high str, killer axe, and crit bonus he often doesn't even need it.

For clarification, I'm not trying to advocate his as S tier, but I do think he's a solid B+ unit that will definitely make a noticeable difference if you train him. Also, lances are just as guilty for being as inaccurate in this game, so I wish that axes would stop getting all the bad rap. People also seem to love the WT but hate the game where it kinda-sorta matters still even later in the game. 

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Going back to the Gonzales stuff, I don't consider his huge con as entirely a positive (his 15 con is too much for most promoted mounts to rescue, and this gets even worse after promotion, with only Shin and an unpromoted Shanna having enough Aid to rescue him), which practically limits him to having to get everywhere on his own two feet, which sucks for him with FE6 maps being as big as they are. Anyway, I just think Gonzales's low skill and axe lock are a match made in Hell, and thus he can be frustrating to use, especially with no quick fix to his hit problems for reasons already stated; hell, trying to use him doesn't seem any different from trying to use Arthur or Charlotte in Fates.

10 hours ago, ping said:

Fun fact: Lalum!Gonzales' skill on 20/1 is one point higher than Allen's on the same level - 14.65 vs. 13.6. If the player promotes them earlier than that (say, Gonzo at level 12 and Allen at level 15), it's 13.45 (Gonzo) vs. 11.6 (Allen). An insta-promoted Elphin!Gonzales still got 12-13 skill, so that isn't particularly bad, either.

Gonzales doesn't have the Swiss Army Knife quality of a paladin, but I have to agree with ChibiToastExplosion that when he's good, he's very good. He's a bit weird in that he doesn't really have the ability to shine right when he joins, but as soon as the number of lance-wielding enemies increses, he's definitely a viable character. Not god-tier by a long shot (he just isn't consistent enough), but viable.

The problem with this comparison, as I see it, is that Alan has more accurate fallbacks, whereas Gonzales is sorry outta luck. 

7 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Also trying to understand why Geese hits so so much more often.

Geese (highlighted skill/luck)
33 10 9 9 9 8 0 11 5
Gonzo (HM)
41 16 8 10 7 7 1 15 5

Both (can be ready for promotion) right away to get that +5 skill, and a skill book is available for both. Upon promotion instantly, they have 1 point difference (14,13 - 16,15 w/ book). With 10 levels, Geese will gain +3 (30%) skill while Gonzo will get 1-2 (15%) skill. Wow. So much more skill, I see what you guys mean, Gonzo can't hit shit.

Gonzo, w/ 10 levels & promote @ 15: 8(base)+2(skillbook)+1(level up, low average)+promo = 16 skill - not too shabby when WTA comes in to play.

Both have the same issue, the difference is that when Gonzo does hit, it makes way more of a difference, and his chunk lets him take hits better than Geese so he's a little more dependable overall. Normal mode it's the Geese show no problem, but on HM he has a chance to shine. He's also the most dangerous armads user the game has to offer, although with his high str, killer axe, and crit bonus he often doesn't even need it.

For clarification, I'm not trying to advocate his as S tier, but I do think he's a solid B+ unit that will definitely make a noticeable difference if you train him. Also, lances are just as guilty for being as inaccurate in this game, so I wish that axes would stop getting all the bad rap. People also seem to love the WT but hate the game where it kinda-sorta matters still even later in the game. 

Tbf, I don't really think Geese is very good either.

Also, whilst lances aren't much better than axes accuracy wise, a good deal of the lancers have good enough skill bases and/or growths to make up for this - axe users, not so much (the only one with a respectable skill growth is Wade, who's pretty awful).

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12 hours ago, SaXor the Nobody said:

Personally, I've never had a magic screwed Lugh and with a growth of 40%, while not as high as one would want it to be, is still usable. Plus magic is very strong in FE6 between just about everyone who's not a mage having relatively low res, the enemies mostly consisting of wyverns, and Aircalibur being as strong as Elfire, effective against fliers, and readily available. He's also the fastest of the three mages. Defensively, he's the middle ground mage. Lilina is more consistent offensively, but she's as durable as wet tissue paper and Hugh is definitely tankier, but not by much. He also joins much too late, so late that Lugh if one were to use him, would most likely already be promoted. He's also in the middle res wise with a growth of 30%, only 5% less than Lilina, but 15% more than Hugh. Nosferatu is particularly strong in FE6, but Druids aren't very common enemies in FE6 and only a few people can tank it better. To top it all off, he's good at dodging. Maybe I shouldn't have said that he's the best unit in the game but he's up there...but in the end, it's up to RNG.

About Cecilia, I'd have to disagree. FE6 is good at giving you prepromotes that are useful for at least their initial chapter. Klein is decent from the chapter you get him to pretty much the end as a flier killer, Igrene fills the same role, Echidna is decent, Bartre is good, Niime is at the very least a great physic bot, same for Yoder, Marcus is useful in the beginning, Percival is...Percival and Karel is Karel. I'd say she's more useful than Juno and maybe Dayan and Douglas but that's about it. She's not even useful in the chapter you get her in.
Sorry for the text wall btw.

See, my Lugh normally gets magic screwed and isn't reliably killing things, so I normally bench him in favour of Lilina as she just deals more damage and is my main support for Roy because that's a really fast, yet good support

11 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

 

No you're not remembering incorrectly, and yeah, I think my memory's being faulty here. I can't remember exactly how I got her to damage Leyglance, or if I just got 1 exp every battle with him. I'll just play the chapter again some time later and check it myself, sorry.

 

Enemies also become stronger in HM obviously, so I think his increased skill would only slightly increase his chances of hitting. Then again, I never played HM, so maybe I'm wrong.

I once tried using Gonzales, it was on HM, but he couldn't hit anything, so I was like, go away, I don't need Axes

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

Best units:

FE6: Obviously Rutger, Milady, Percival, Dieck And Allance.

FE7: Can't say so because pretty much anyone can be used. Though to name a few, Raven, Hector, Eliwood, Lyn and Athos and just about any prepromote here.

Worst Units:

FE6: I'm actually quite surprised that no one has elaborated a lot of horrible units here. But just to name a few. Wade, Juno, Treck, Sophia, Barth, Wendy, Wolt, and Fae.

 

 

I agree with you on FE6's best units, Percival is easily FE6's best prepromote and if you need a third Paladin, I recommend him. Athos isn't really one of FE7's best units because you only get him for the last chapter, and I would personally add a few units such as Florina, Sain and Kent. FE6's worst units, some of those are worse than others, Wade IIRC has decent skill for an axe user, which means I would probably choose him over Lot tbh although I'd also rather just use Geese. Juno, a Falcon Knight with terrible stats on a route where you've already trained up at least one Falcon Knight? No thanks, I'll just use Tate. Treck, honestly, I only recommend using him if you want more Paladins (which you can't go wrong with Paladins) or if your Allen or Lance died (in which case you've done something wrong). Sophia, worst unit in the game. Barth, knights aren't very good in FE6, so by that virtue Bors, Barth, Wendy and Douglas are all some of the worst units in the game. Wendy is the hardest Knight to train, but she'll turn out good, not as bad as Sophia, but definitely bottom 3. Wolt, worst bow user in the game and why would you use Archers over Nomads when Sue and Shin are just so good? Fae is only really bad because you can only attack with her 30 times, if you could repair her Dragonstone or buy more, she would be better (not counting glitches here)

 

10 hours ago, ping said:

Fun fact: Lalum!Gonzales' skill on 20/1 is one point higher than Allen's on the same level - 14.65 vs. 13.6. If the player promotes them earlier than that (say, Gonzo at level 12 and Allen at level 15), it's 13.45 (Gonzo) vs. 11.6 (Allen). An insta-promoted Elphin!Gonzales still got 12-13 skill, so that isn't particularly bad, either.

Gonzales doesn't have the Swiss Army Knife quality of a paladin, but I have to agree with ChibiToastExplosion that when he's good, he's very good. He's a bit weird in that he doesn't really have the ability to shine right when he joins, but as soon as the number of lance-wielding enemies increses, he's definitely a viable character. Not god-tier by a long shot (he just isn't consistent enough), but viable.

Except that Allen doesn't use the most inaccurate weapon type in the game

7 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Also trying to understand why Geese hits so so much more often.

Geese (highlighted skill/luck)
33 10 9 9 9 8 0 11 5
Gonzo (HM)
41 16 8 10 7 7 1 15 5

Both (can be ready for promotion) right away to get that +5 skill, and a skill book is available for both. Upon promotion instantly, they have 1 point difference (14,13 - 16,15 w/ book). With 10 levels, Geese will gain +3 (30%) skill while Gonzo will get 1-2 (15%) skill. Wow. So much more skill, I see what you guys mean, Gonzo can't hit shit.

Gonzo, w/ 10 levels & promote @ 15: 8(base)+2(skillbook)+1(level up, low average)+promo = 16 skill - not too shabby when WTA comes in to play.

Both have the same issue, the difference is that when Gonzo does hit, it makes way more of a difference, and his chunk lets him take hits better than Geese so he's a little more dependable overall. Normal mode it's the Geese show no problem, but on HM he has a chance to shine. He's also the most dangerous armads user the game has to offer, although with his high str, killer axe, and crit bonus he often doesn't even need it.

For clarification, I'm not trying to advocate his as S tier, but I do think he's a solid B+ unit that will definitely make a noticeable difference if you train him. Also, lances are just as guilty for being as inaccurate in this game, so I wish that axes would stop getting all the bad rap. People also seem to love the WT but hate the game where it kinda-sorta matters still even later in the game. 

Geese is overall more reliable than Gonzales though because he has higher Skill and Luck. Gonzales becomes passable as a Berserker whereas Geese is at least passable once he gets up to higher levels.

On the point of Lances, Lance are still not as bad as Axes, not by a long shot, and Lance users typically have better stats to use a somewhat inaccurate weapon type, whereas most Axe users don't, and Gonzales is the worst offender of this. Most Lance users also have better supports than Gonzales, which do help. Also, Berserkers are locked to Axes whereas most Lance users gain another weapon upon promotion (Pegasus Knights, Wyvern Riders, Knights, Cavaliers) or have one at base (Cavaliers) and other than Knights, that weapon is Swords, which if you train that rank up can be really good.

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That's what I meant with the Swiss Army Knife that the paladins are and Gonzo isn't. Yes, they are more versatile than him - you'll want Gonzales to fight lance users as often as possible. But against them, he is about as accurate as everyone else (I think I've mentioned before that Iron Axes are as accurate against lance users as Iron Swords), way more tanky (same-ish defense and more than 10 points higher HP) and way more powerful (about 5 points more strength and, of course, the crit bonus after promotion). And lance wielders do become more common after the Western Isles arc is over. Gonzo is admittedly considerably worse on the Sacae route with its myrms and nomads (even though there are quite a few wyvern riders, too), but if you go the Ilia route, he's far from terrible.

Again, neither CTE nor myself are trying to elevate Gonzales in the same tier as Milady, Marcus in the earlygame, Niime or Alance. But in a game featuring Sophia and Wendy, you can't seriously list him as one of the weakest characters.

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12 minutes ago, ping said:

That's what I meant with the Swiss Army Knife that the paladins are and Gonzo isn't. Yes, they are more versatile than him - you'll want Gonzales to fight lance users as often as possible. But against them, he is about as accurate as everyone else (I think I've mentioned before that Iron Axes are as accurate against lance users as Iron Swords), way more tanky (same-ish defense and more than 10 points higher HP) and way more powerful (about 5 points more strength and, of course, the crit bonus after promotion). And lance wielders do become more common after the Western Isles arc is over. Gonzo is admittedly considerably worse on the Sacae route with its myrms and nomads (even though there are quite a few wyvern riders, too), but if you go the Ilia route, he's far from terrible.

Again, neither CTE nor myself are trying to elevate Gonzales in the same tier as Milady, Marcus in the earlygame, Niime or Alance. But in a game featuring Sophia and Wendy, you can't seriously list him as one of the weakest characters.

I also end up in Sacae way more often than I end up in Ilia as I use Shin and/or Sue way more often than I use Tate (I have never used Shanna, not strong enough for my tastes) and I'm not trying to say he's one of the worst units in the game, he's far from that, I'm saying he's middle of the road at best imo, he has glaring strengths but he has a glaring flaw, and imo his positives don't outweigh his negatives

For instance, Allen and Lance have no glaring flaw other than effective damage from Horseslayers and Halberds (which don't hit often enough and aren't common enough to really matter) and so many positives, Deke's main flaw is his lower growths, but his bases make sure that he's never a bad choice and his growths are decent enough. Rutger's flaws are his shaky strength growth (higher than Fir's to be fair) and being swordlocked, which means his only 1-2 range option is the Light Brand that can do at most 20 damage at range, but his +30 crit from being a Swordmaster and amazing supports with Deke and Clarine make up for his lowish but still passable strength so his most glaring flaw is being sword locked which is not as bad imo as being axe locked and is certainly not as bad as being bow locked

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2 hours ago, Weeping__Dalek said:

Wendy is the hardest Knight to train, but she'll turn out good

Um, I honestly fail to see how Wendy turns out good when she fails to outclass Bors by any notable margin...

1 hour ago, ping said:

That's what I meant with the Swiss Army Knife that the paladins are and Gonzo isn't. Yes, they are more versatile than him - you'll want Gonzales to fight lance users as often as possible. But against them, he is about as accurate as everyone else (I think I've mentioned before that Iron Axes are as accurate against lance users as Iron Swords), way more tanky (same-ish defense and more than 10 points higher HP) and way more powerful (about 5 points more strength and, of course, the crit bonus after promotion). And lance wielders do become more common after the Western Isles arc is over. Gonzo is admittedly considerably worse on the Sacae route with its myrms and nomads (even though there are quite a few wyvern riders, too), but if you go the Ilia route, he's far from terrible.

Again, neither CTE nor myself are trying to elevate Gonzales in the same tier as Milady, Marcus in the earlygame, Niime or Alance. But in a game featuring Sophia and Wendy, you can't seriously list him as one of the weakest characters.

Hey, I don't think he's that bad either, but Gonzales has a glaring weakness, and his good points fail to make up for his flaws.

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