Do you want an avatar & S-rank supports? (Poll)

[TheSS]

As someone who's a fan of well-developed characters and doesn't like self inserts, I don't like having an avatar. On the other hand, though, it DID improve sales and is a big part of the appeal, so I guess it's for the best that it does for the sake of the longevity of the series. 

S supports are a must, though. I am shipping TRASH.

[Midnox]

Not sure. For one part, having an avatar more involved to the story can work, like Robin (he/she still have room for improvement, but they are decent enough). Not sure about My Unit from the Mystery of the Emblem remake, but I've heard of a big flaw on them is that it's frequently mentioned the good guys wouldn't have won without the avatar. But I think Corrin is pretty problematic. Having an avatar as a main character could work, but they've decided to make Corrin so bland that it did more harm than good. I don't agree, nor opposed to the idea of avatar in FE switch, but it need some thought 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Yes to avatar. Yes to S rank supports.

No to 2nd generation characters. Unless the story naturally leans towards them, children are a bad inclusion. Instead, I would like to see spouse's or best friends inherit each other's unique skill.

[Altrosa]

I know Serenes is a microcosm of the overall FE fandom, bit I don't envy IS right now considering how closely split each answer is for avatars and marriages. 

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[PersonWithTime]

On 11/30/2017 at 4:25 PM, Altrosa said:

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Yep, that exactly how I bet they feel right now. I think the only thing they could do without really pissing over off is do what the Switch has been doing best, reinvent! Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey I think really have changed what those series have been lately and it's been for the best. I really want Fire Emblem to get that as well, because I feel like that will be the only way to get that home console feel to it.

But anyway, I said no avatars because I'm tired of everyone being completely split between male or female avatars and I want everyone to be happy again.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Love Avatars so yes! S-supports/Marriages should definitely stay but no children in this one(can be ambiguously mentioned in epilouge for pairs) so I keep my waifus but no Kids fair trade off especially since the former is massively popular than the latter anyway.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Pegasus Knight]

I hated playing as Corrin...

But i liked being Robin....

If we have an avatar all i really want is better customization cause the one we had these 2 games was tragic! Also i would prefer if we lloked more like an actual character and not as your usual "generic insert" both visually and personality wise...

 

I dont midn S supports but i hate when the S support dialogue is generic and the same relevant of the pairings!

 

I dont want kids! If they want kids they should make a TIME SKIP! or more preferably a sequel title where u play as the children characters with some adult guests (and the kids depends on the pairs u did on the previous game*) that would be awesome actually!

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Another thing I want more varied Avatar builds Awakening had something good don't know what happened with Fates that only had 2 with the Switch it's definitely no excuse to go further in.

[Viridianveil]

Yes to both, but with a LOT of changes.

First off, I want to pick ONE GODDAMN PERSONALITY TRAIT for my Avatar. It would toggle the way they would word things, and while I realize this isn't The Sims, I could use just a LITTLE customizable personality.

Also, character creation should for the most part go back to the way it was in FE12, with some elements with 13 and 14 in the middle.

And I want an S-Support system that matters more than whomst is the cutest, like certain pairings could really damage, deprive, or buff a child unit.

[Gebby]

I want them to be

• Heavily customizable, maybe to the point of class creation
• Have zero plot relevance

I feel like S supports have run their course for the time being, they need a rest. That and they put too much attention on the avatar imo, at least the way 3DS Emblem used them.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

There's nothing wrong with S-Ranks there fine the way they are basically its an evolved "A" rank. As for avatars Awakening was a great way of implementing it Fates wasn't too bad.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Hawkwing]

No to an avatar, but thats only to ease up IS's plate in the writing department. I have seen avatars done very well before, and I do believe that Fire Emblem is a series that could benefit from them. However, they had to write 50 support chains for the avatar alone in Awakening, and thus over 200 actual conversations for one character! Say what you will about the supports of that game, but it's still impressive that they managed to keep up a consistent quality. Although I haven't played fates, the little I've seen of the story and supports, they bit off more than they could chew with the sheer number of characters they added, and the quality suffered as a result. Avatars can most certainly work, but it seems like an unnecessary hurdle for IS to take at the moment, especially when they could direct their writing efforts to improve the other areas of the overall story. That said, I do what them to try an avatar again in the future, but only after they've proven that they can get a grip on writing one.

Mechanically, I am fine with S-Supports. They help guarantee that two characters are going to have a paired ending, they provide a strategic and tactical edge considering that you can only have one between two characters, and they add replay value. They are also work hand-in-hand with the child mechanic, while being able to stand on their own feet. However, while the "waifu emblem" aspects of the series are overblown, S-Supports don't help the series reputation. They also limit the amount of platonic pairings that two people can have, as their is little point outside of gameplay convenience or 100% completion to support with same gendered units, and I don't want them to compensate by making most characters bi/gay. And although it's more the writers fault that the mechanics, many of the marriages do give the impression that they came out of nowhere, and they tend to be the best and worst supports in the game, which isn't helped by the fact that romance is not the easiest genre to write convincingly. Besides, this is a game about war! I'm not against adding romance, but I don't want it to be as needlessly present as it was in Awakening or Fates.

I'm also fine with child units, but only if they fit the story, and I want IS to solve the balancing problems they have before we see them again.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

An Avatar is basically a Lord that you can choose name, gender and appearance of so its nothing to do with "difficult writing" as said before their an already established character with a family, backstory and OWN personality that you can change appearance of nothing to do with how to write them the personality is more on opinion and preference. "Waifu Emblem" was already a thing way back before Awakening which most of the major fanbase enjoy so don't see S-supports getting affected as already said its an evolved "A" rank.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Altrosa]

On 12/5/2017 at 3:43 PM, Viridianveil said:

 

And I want an S-Support system that matters more than whomst is the cutest, like certain pairings could really damage, deprive, or buff a child unit.

Lordy this is exactly what I DON'T want. No child units! I want story and fun, not eugenics! I want S-ranks to just be about the married pair and how pair-up stats benefit them.

I used this example earlier, but it would make better sense to me to let a Paladin that's always helping to cart around and protect my Cleric marry them, then pull out a bunch of other units I don't use/like to make a pair of kid units "better," verses just improving that first Paladin and Cleric. 

 

I love avatars, but really want them to make the Lord a seperate unit and give me more freedom in designing my avatar's class choice and stats.

[John Denver Fan]

Yes to both I think it was excellent in Fates, I wouldn't mind seeing them in this game.

[edgelordweeaboo]

if they're just gonna ruin the game's story and suck off the player constantly with an avatar i don't want to see it again

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

On 12/8/2017 at 10:44 PM, Megalodon966 said:

Yes to both I think it was excellent in Fates, I wouldn't mind seeing them in this game.

Awesome another one!

[Slumber]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:54 PM, Blade Lord Lyn said:

There's nothing wrong with S-Ranks there fine the way they are basically its an evolved "A" rank. As for avatars Awakening was a great way of implementing it Fates wasn't too bad.

They're really not an evolution of A ranks.

A ranks usually stopped at platonic feelings, and continued a pretty natural chain of events. Occasionally they developed into romantic feelings in endings, but most A ranks were platonic.

S ranks turn ALL support chains that end with S into romantic relationships. A lot of them were out of nowhere, and it felt really out of place most of the time, completely unrelated to the 3 conversations that took place before. Units who really had NO business falling in love turning around in one conversation going "Wait, actually I love you, let's make babies."

It was incredibly awkward and pander-y compared to C-A ranks.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Slumber

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Yes they are an evolved A rank no matter if you likely hate it which I'm sure many here know. Also Doesn't matter if its not "platonic" it works the way A ranks before did only 1 per playthrough, different endings, can't have multiples of 1 unit.

[DragonFlames]

On 8.12.2017 at 7:58 PM, Blade Lord Lyn said:

An Avatar is basically a Lord that you can choose name, gender and appearance of so its nothing to do with "difficult writing" as said before their an already established character with a family, backstory and OWN personality that you can change appearance of nothing to do with how to write them the personality is more on opinion and preference. "Waifu Emblem" was already a thing way back before Awakening which most of the major fanbase enjoy so don't see S-supports getting affected as already said its an evolved "A" rank.

This. So much this.

As for the poll, I put "yes" on both, if they put actual effort into implementing it, by which I mean actually change the ending depending on who a person is married to *shoots a glance at Fates*
What I would do is make the Avatar a silent protagonist / character and give us three to four dialogue choices and have the other characters react accordingly. That way, it feels more immersive and the player can connect to their character better. The "Untold" games in the Etrian Odyssey franchise are two excellent examples of how a system like this could work and I do see the possibility of implementing that into Fire Emblem. Granted, full voice acting might have to be sacrificed for this, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Just, be careful not to make them a Mary Sue character. While I personally don't agree with Corrin being one, I can see why such accusations could be made.

As for child units, there is no denying that they are a great factor in terms of replayability for both Awakening and Fates (something which Echoes, admittedly, lacks) and are as such not a terrible idea in and of themselves. Depending on how the story goes, I could even see them in the new game as well. I was a fan of them in Awakening, I liked them in Fates, though Fates admittedly did a worse job at justifying their presence, I still enjoyed replaying the game to see what kind of things were possible for each individual child, like a physical Ophelia, a completely Dragonstone-focused Kana, and many other examples.
So, leaving my personal taste in dating sim elements aside, which I can and will enjoy if the game implements them well (i.e. Stella Glow, Conception II and Persona 5), I do see gameplay value in child units and S-supports both.

Of course, there is a chance that IS may screw up, but that's not the concept's fault, but their incompetence at writing, because there are many examples of games with Avatar protagonists AND dating sim elements that DIDN'T screw up, like the above mentioned Persona 5, Stella Glow, Conception II, Etrian Odyssey Untold and Untold 2. There are possibly some others that I missed, as well.

I would probably still buy and play the game if neither of these things were present, as long as they do not screw up the story.

[kratoscar2008]

Yes i do want the avatar back. I really like games that try to give the player a role in the game world and this is one of the reasons that im glad that Fire Emblem seemingly has adopted this feature. I can live with only being able to name them so they can give them a personality or not and i wont care. Heck they could drop avatar but let you name the Lord and that would be enough for me. To me its strange since the best SRPGs, like Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics, lets you name and somewhat customize the protagonist (Mostly affinities or stat spreads) so in a way FE was long overdue having a nameable/customizable character.

 

I do want S supports again. Though as other have said, the avatar being an exception, there should be a limit on how many supports the characters can have. Something like how Chrom is limited in supports. This would probably help to give unique parent/child supports instead of being copy pasted. Or maybe giving some married dialogues for characters.

 

As for children im fine with them. I like that i can give them whatever hair color i want, also like that their class is tied with their pairing i dont usually care for min maxing so im fine if the limited options are not the best for the child character stats. That said the problem i have with a proper generation is what happens to the first gen or the avatar? I dont really like the idea of killing the charactes, i like my happy endings so killing my characters is a no no so i dont want it "properly" done like FE 4, would hate to be "taken out" of the remainder of the game. I didnt mind the Fates explanation since to me it makes sense somewhat (If the My Castle dimension works diferent from the main dimension then the other dimensions working diferent also makes sense to me) so i will take whatever that justifies children.

[EdeaCreamer]

I greatly enjoy having a customizable unit.  However, said unit's plot relevance is a matter I regard with indifference.  If IS has an easier time writing a compelling story without factoring in your insert's presence, by all means just have them be Soldier #1424 in the Lord character's eyes.  For me it's purely the mechanical exercise that makes the Avatar interesting (I'm admittedly the type that picks the default appearance mods without a second thought as to what they might look like, but then agonizes over what Bane/Boon/Talent to select for them).

I would rather not have S-Supports.  I admit selfishness here, as I feel no connection to most of them from a romance-perspective due to my orientation, but at the same time expecting IS to accommodate me at the expense of the majority of the fanbase is -completely- asinine, so that's not really a legitimate complaint.  The more important argument here is the simple theory that IS's ability to conjure up a good main storyline will suffer if the writers have to sit there and come up with a crapload of poorly-conceived S-Rank conversations. I don't trust them to be able to handle both responsibilities; they'll cock up one or the other at minimum, and it's likely they'll cock up both if they're saddled with this.  Also, I dislike being 'herded' into certain support pairings for S-Ranking benefits, especially if it means kids (I am not a fan of the child systems for Awakening or Fates, especially the latter).

[gone]

On 18.12.2017 at 7:04 AM, EdeaCreamer said:

I greatly enjoy having a customizable unit.  However, said unit's plot relevance is a matter I regard with indifference.  If IS has an easier time writing a compelling story without factoring in your insert's presence, by all means just have them be Soldier #1424 in the Lord character's eyes.  For me it's purely the mechanical exercise that makes the Avatar interesting (I'm admittedly the type that picks the default appearance mods without a second thought as to what they might look like, but then agonizes over what Bane/Boon/Talent to select for them).

I would rather not have S-Supports.  I admit selfishness here, as I feel no connection to most of them from a romance-perspective due to my orientation, but at the same time expecting IS to accommodate me at the expense of the majority of the fanbase is -completely- asinine, so that's not really a legitimate complaint.  The more important argument here is the simple theory that IS's ability to conjure up a good main storyline will suffer if the writers have to sit there and come up with a crapload of poorly-conceived S-Rank conversations. I don't trust them to be able to handle both responsibilities; they'll cock up one or the other at minimum, and it's likely they'll cock up both if they're saddled with this.  Also, I dislike being 'herded' into certain support pairings for S-Ranking benefits, especially if it means kids (I am not a fan of the child systems for Awakening or Fates, especially the latter).

I completely agree with you on S-Supports. With a few exceptions most of them are predictable and forced, so why even bother trying to loop those into a mess.

For instance: While I would argue that the Clive x Mathilda Supports are to much of a good for my tastes, the Mae x Boey Supports are a prime example that IS is still capable of writing charming dialogs without the extra sugar (and cringe). Therefore I don't see a need for S-Supports. C to A supports were already enough to fit any topic in said supports before, so why not in the upcoming game as well.

About the avatar. Preferably I don't need one. Should it happen, he better shuts up his/her mouth for better or worse.

[Dracologist]

I'm not against an avatar, but I'd rather a small role for a player insert like in Blazing Sword. To me, Fire Emblem works better when the player is more of an observer than an active participant in story events. Also, something about having an avatar that can marry other units just always felt a little off to me, although I have nothing against the people who enjoy that. It just made things awkward for me personally, feeling like some of my units might be developing romantic feelings for my avatar.

I don't really care for the support limits in older games, but am a fan of the different endings based on who each unit has the highest support with, so S support without children seems like the best of both worlds to me. I would still prefer quality over quantity with supports, but it would be nice to be able to see all of the A level supports before I decide who I want to see get together in the epilogue. If the next game after this one is a sequel, it could be really fun to have the ability to transfer files and have supports effect the sequel's story like you can with the Tellius games. If the sequel stars the first game's children, you could even have different appearances and/or dialogue based on who their parents are.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

No to an avatar. 

Yes to S-support...but on conditions. Make it more like GBA where it doesn't result in playable kids and is just post-game marriage, and limit who can marry who.