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Do you want an avatar & S-rank supports? (Poll)

  

397 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want an avatar?

    • Yes.
      203
    • No.
      194
  2. 2. Do you want S-rank supports?

    • Yes.
      261
    • No.
      136


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So, do you guys want an avatar and S-rank supports? I know many of you don't want another "Waifu Emblem," so I'm curious.

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No to Avatar since my main file is kept default. If I replay it, I'll change it around but I feel weird having self-inserts in a Fire Emblem game. However I do enjoy playing match maker and I don't care if they don't have kids. I just like the support conversations and stat benefits!

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I wouldn't mind as long as it is done well and doesn't involve any cringy mini games like with the skin ship. Though I highly doubt ss would come back after all the controversy surrounding it.

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I voted no on both, but I wouldn't mind the Avatar if they were done a little better. Same with the S-supports. I'm not really fond of this everyone-can-marry-everyone thing, and I CERTAINLY didn't like half-assed excuses being made for certain ones in Fates.

I definitely don't want children in the next game. I hate the mechanic, honestly, unless it's done like FE4. Time travel stuff is so stupid and boring and results in plot holes. It's just never done well. And Fates did it far worse than even Awakening had. At least in Awakening, they had some form of relevance...

So if S-supports were simply marriage (or even end-of-the-game marriage) with no kids, I'd be cool with it.

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Yes to an Avatar. FE7 and 12 were both my favourite games and I believe avatars can still be done well despite having consistently bad writing. I'd like a more immersive take on Avatars, since disappointingly Kris comes closest to fulfilling that role (and even then, does not, due to a lack of dialogue options). 

As for S-Rank supports, I vote no. The only time they've been good for me is when it was done in Geneology. Whilst I'm certain they will be there, I only think they're good when it's story related. 

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7 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Yes to an Avatar. FE7 and 12 were both my favourite games and I believe avatars can still be done well despite having consistently bad writing. I'd like a more immersive take on Avatars, since disappointingly Kris comes closest to fulfilling that role (and even then, does not, due to a lack of dialogue options). 

As for S-Rank supports, I vote no. The only time they've been good for me is when it was done in Geneology. Whilst I'm certain they will be there, I only think they're good when it's story related. 

A Kris-like avatar would be nice. Just don't make a complete Mary Sue like Corn Man in Fates.

I have to agree, I'm sick of S-Supports. Waifu Emblem takes the main focus away from the gameplay and makes people focus on the more anime parts.

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No, unless S supports are included so that paired endings can happen without limiting characters to one A support or a certain number of conversations.

As for avatars, so far imo they've added nothing of value over a regular protagonist, on the contrary they've had a negative effect on plot and on other characters. I don't think they're necessary in FE.

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I like avatars conceptually, so yes. Just hope they actually do it not-bad this time.

I also voted yes for S ranks, though it's not really a big deal to me.

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35 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

A Kris-like avatar would be nice. Just don't make a complete Mary Sue like Corn Man in Fates.

I have to agree, I'm sick of S-Supports. Waifu Emblem takes the main focus away from the gameplay and makes people focus on the more anime parts.

Kris was idealistic for me in the sense that he wasn't a pivotal aspect of the plot (although I understand that people felt he degraded Marth as a leader and thus, character) and instead had his own personal sub-plot related with Katarina & the assassins. I like the idea of an Avatar if he acutally fulfilled the role of a slate for players to reimagine themselves into the world for. Mark felt too irrelevant as even a character, Robin didn't re-enact the feeling of a blank-slate and instead came across as an incredibly generic and boring character and as you said with Corrin... let's just ignore that one. 

Reconsidering the S-Rank supports, I wouldn't mind if they took an approach back in the GBA-generation, where S-Ranks effected only the endings and not forced incredibly contrived children missions or character relations. I would like S-ranks and 'waifu' emblem/children mechanics to become autonomous. In a sense, it's just adding a final (doesn't necessarily have to end in romantics) conversation of a forged bond, whilst the A-ranks continued as they were in Echoes. For example, Legault and Isadora from Fire Emblem 7 could be a good example of an S-rank conversation where the two characters are in love with each other, but know they're destined to never be together and later, you can see in the ending that they re-meet each other against one another in battle. Romantic, yet also bittersweet.

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I'm not opposed or for either, but I chose "no" for Avatar and "yes" for S supports.  They haven't quite implemented Avatars quite right in my opinion, closest is Kris in New Mystery.  But if they decide to add an Avatar, I wouldn't be opposed to it just as long as they're not regarded so highly by everyone..

And S supports could be nice to see for extra characterization.  I always kinda felt there was something missing whenever there were marriages when achieving A supports for characters in older games.

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Yes on avatar and yes on S Ranks. While it may be a source for annoyances because of Fates handling of it, I think Awakening handled it just fine considering the circumstances. And while it may be bad story wise, I can't exactly say it was completely terrible in Fates either. It is still a source of enjoyment and many, many replays for me.

Fates and Awakening are among the highest amount of hours poured into a game for me. Part of that is due to S Ranks and Avatars. While SoV was a nice break from it, I'm not sure I want to see it fully tossed aside. If handled correctly, I think it can be a fine addition to the next game. 

Edited by Tolvir

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We as a community have been shipping units long before it ever became a gameplay mechanic, but it's still a no to S supports for me. Every S support ends in marriage, every S support ends up with some deeprealm brat. Avatars is trickier. I said yes primarily because I know the system can be done well even if I can't point to a game from this series as an example. And creating a unit is a mechanic I dared to dream about as a kid. Being able to recruit units created by friends? Never saw that coming. I'd like it back.

Edited by Gustavos

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I'm going with no to both simply because so far, they haven't done either particularly well. The Avatar is either the centre of the plot, and thus it becomes increasingly difficult to use him as an Avatar when a set in stone story is in place, or they're a nothing character that exists for the sake of existing and nothing more.

S-ranks are a cool concept, but I feel like they should only be included in an excessively long game, which the new title might be, but for now I'm saying no because S-ranks come with a hell of a lot of baggage and recognisable mechanics tied to it, often in an extremely predictable manner.

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i want both those things but actually done properly...

but if they didnt exist i wouldnt really care either

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I see a couple of people mentioning an avatar like Kris, but if you look back at New Mystery, Kris' ass was kissed so much. It wasn't Marth & Co.'s achievements anymore- it was Kris' own achievements. And they were pretty blank slate as well in terms of personality. If you read their supports, they're never the leader nor the more interesting one. However, I do like how Kris' customization was handled- you were given plenty of hairstyles and faces to choose from, armor changed with class, you can pick up accessories during your journey, you picked their background and the you chose a basic class. It wasn't anything special to give your character an extra spotlight. An expansion on these choices would be nice, especially background. Perhaps a personality test may also help, so it can decide who you can support with. A lot of people complain about the lack of personality, so I think that'll help.

So while I'm not crazy about avatars in FE, I wouldn't mind it if they went all out with it and your avatar feels more like an established character rather than a blank self-insert. As for S-ranks, again, if done right, I wouldn't mind it. Not every S rank needs to end in a proposal and a child being born. If there's going to be children with a proper timeskip, then I may ease up on S-ranks, but if it's going to be like Conquest; children shoehorned in a game where experience is limited and they've become hard to use because you're essentially given 13 Ests, but you may not get them all. (it's impressive IMO if you can get all the children without grinding DLC). I know the solution is to just not even try to get them, but I feel like I'm missing out on something. But that's more of a personal problem, and not even a huge one for me. Sorry I got sidetracked.

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No to the avatar character, at least the way it was done in Awakening and Fates. If any at all I would prefer something like Blazing Sword's take on it.

S-ranks I'm not inherently against either, but if they do return I would hope to see a major overhaul and a better way to work children into the plot (something more akin to Genealogy of the Holy War).

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As someone who doesn't consider avatars to be self-inserts, and instead, their own characters, I have mixed feelings with them. Out of the three customisable avatars, I feel like Robin was the best. Kris had amazing customisation options, I'll never forget when Wrys shaves their head, but he had poor character, taking a lot of the spotlight away from Marth and Jagen. Corrin...we don't talk about Corrin. I feel like another avatar like Robin would be ideal, but either make them the main focus from the start, ...like Corrin..., so they don't hijack the plot halfway through, or just keep them in the supporting role. Avatars are great, if done correctly.

As for S-ranks and child units...nope to child units. Fates did it awfully and was enough to put me off them for a bit. Awakening did it fine, they tied into the plot and each one had nice personalities. I haven't played Genealogy yet, so I can't judge. If they were to split them into generations, then yeah, that's fine, but Outrealms? No thank you. S-supports, I really like, because you feel more responsible like c'mon buddy, gotta survive this battle and get you home to your wife or whatever, but I would prefer if each character ending wasn't generic or whatever, especially the avatar's.

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43 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I see a couple of people mentioning an avatar like Kris, but if you look back at New Mystery, Kris' ass was kissed so much. It wasn't Marth & Co.'s achievements anymore- it was Kris' own achievements. And they were pretty blank slate as well in terms of personality.

As one of the people complimenting Kris, I already mentioned this. 'Ass-kissing' has been a problem for all the avatars, including Mark.

26 minutes ago, Lautsuu said:

As someone who doesn't consider avatars to be self-inserts, and instead, their own characters,

Honestly, this is the inherent flaw behind the avatar characters. The avatars are made incredibly generic so people can self-insert and immerse themselves into the world, however both Robin and Corrin despite being generic, make their own choices (the latter is a worse offender), taking away from the feeling of being an avatar for the player. Thus, all that leaves us with are flawed carbon copy characters with very little identity. I think Intelligence System needs to take hints from series like Persona to properly incorporate an avatar-based character and not just make a 'generic hero'.

Edited by SlipperySlippy

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No avatar.  Ever.

Can you add a third option to the S rank supports?  I'm okay with it so long as it's not everyone x everyone and forcing people with no chemistry to talk for the sake of gameplay.  

And no children, unless they're part of the story in a way that isn't rife with unfortunate implications.

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After playing Echoes and claiming several A Supports, I must say I prefer them. Going only to A allows the writers to do whatever with the character interaction, and let the chemistry between the characters play out naturally so it is left to the viewer's imagination where it goes from there. (Hint for developers: it's also easier to present homosexual pairings without appearing to do such).

Avatars... I'm going no, because I don't think they're catching on. There's a way to do it right in this genre, and Kris came pretty close, but he made some glaring errors as well as not taking the concept far enough where it worked.

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No and no.

Avatars to this day have never been done well. Mark, if you could even call him a lord, had little to no influence on the anything Blazing Blade with the exception of the odd time one of the lords would refer to them. Kris, while his customization was my favourite, everything else, I didn't like. Refer to RJWalker's paragraph on Reddit, that pretty much sums up my opinion on Kris. Then we have Robin and Corrin who are so far from what avatar is supposed to be, I rarely even customize them in my appearance since what they would do, I wouldn't do.

As for S supports, I'm fine with characters building a romantic relationship via supports, example, Gray/Clair, however the way they did it in FEA and FEF with how you would have normal conversation from C-A and then randomly in S they wanted to get married out of the blue. Yeah no thanks. Literally the only C-S support that actually felt like a romance between FEA and FEF was Kaze/Nyx. TBH, I would much prefer if characters just had already set romances like Pent/Louise and Clive/Mathilda. They feel much more genuine. C-A is all the supports characters should get.

Edited by Azz

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No for Avatars. To me, they nover really felt like representations of the player, only as rather bland characters who's appearance and stats I could influence.

Yes to S-Supports, but only if they are changed. First, they are much rarer, every character only has 1-3 possible S-partners in their support pool. Second, they are not all romantic. An S-Rank should symbolize a bond strong enough to change a person's life, which is represented by a changed epilogue. Of course, some of these S-Ranks could be romances that result in the two characters getting married after the war instead of staying single, but others will be platonic. For example, a mercenary who hasn't thought much about his future would normally stay a hired blade in the epilogue, but if he befriends a soldier who wants to start a business after the war, he will instead decide to lay down the sword and work together with the soldier.

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I could live with an Avatar and S supports but I think the game would be better off without them.

The problem of every support having to end in a romance and this not always being natural has already been made. A more pressing concern I have with the S support system is that it heavily limits the characters the writers can come up with. If pairing characters is the goal then it means that couples who are already happily married like Pent and Louis, Zeke and Tatiana and the like will be much harder to implement. A heavy focus on pairings also requires most characters to be conventionally attractive and not to old. We can see this in Fates and Awakening where its very rare for characters to be over thirty. Its a cast of kids, teenagers and those in very early adulthood. In this system there just wouldn't be a place for a unique old hag like Niime, a grizzled veteran such as Tauroneo or even a middle aged hero like Hardin.
I think this need for attractive characters is the reason most older characters in Awakening and Fates only have one or two supports. 

I'm fine with kids but only on the condition they are implemented naturally. If there are kids there needs to be a timeskip because there just isn't a way left for grown up kids to still fight alongside their teenage parents. Time travel was the only valid explanation and its already been used. Still insisting on unnaturally young parents would only severely damage the second generation again. 
If an S rank system is chosen and if they decide to implement a timeskip I would be all for it but if they intend to pull another Fates I'd rather the kids stay home. 

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I wouldn't mind S supports coming back in some capacity, though as people have already mentioned, they should not be as prevalent as in Awakening and Fates, as they limit what the supports can be about, or at least color them differently. Having some characters being able to hook up, I feel, can be a lot of fun, so long as it's not the main focus of the entire roster. Throw in a married couple, or even some people who try to get a romance going, but realize they're too different. Spice things up a bit. 

As for an avatar, I honestly don't know. Before Echoes, I would've said we needed a break, and I still think we do, but Alm and Celica proved to me that, while more difficult to get right, avatars don't have to be worse characters or any more worshipped. I'll take Robin over Alm any day of the week.

 

Edited by Thane

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