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Do you want an avatar & S-rank supports? (Poll)


  

397 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want an avatar?

    • Yes.
      203
    • No.
      194
  2. 2. Do you want S-rank supports?

    • Yes.
      261
    • No.
      136


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Avatars are mechanically game breaking in every FE. They become juggernauts and are boring. Story can die in a fire. I don't care about it at all, but if mechanics are touched I'm not going to enjoy the game. It's why awakening is a snoozefest unless you play on Robin+

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I don't think Avatars should come back. I like how Robin was handled in Awakening, but I'm rather sick of the mechanic after Fates, with Corrin being the main character and a custom character (which I think did not work). Even if they were to make the avatar more of a supporting role instead of the main character, I'm just tired of it; I don't want keep seeing it or I'll only get tired of it.

I said no for S-Supports, but I'm more open to these. Letting almost everyone S-Support with each other in Fates led to a lot of the conversations feel very uninteresting; I remember reading a lot of S-Supports during my Conquest playthrough and thinking "I don't see how this leads to a relationship.", so I'll echo what others have said and limit the options so that when two characters reach an S-Support, I can actually find it believable.

Also, keep children away from any form of S-Supports! I really like them in Awakening, but I despise them in Fates just due to their lazy plot-implementation. I'm alright with some form of the mechanic returning, but just don't make them the direct children of one of the units.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think S rank support is neat idea. As long as it's extension of already existing relationship and restricted to potential lovers (which obviously doesn't mean just anyone), that is. 

Big no to Avatars though, there is too much of wishfulfilment even without FE contributing. 

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Bring back the Avatar and make them like Kris, but in a non-story-important role.  Also, give us more skin tone and eyewear options.

S-Supports can come back too, but keep Child Units out unless you can find a good way to integrate them into the story.

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    I know the avatar can be done right, so I'm being optimistic that IntSy will learn. Especially since the next game will be on the switch they can be more ambitious. Like choices your avatar can make that'll make a small influence on the conversation. Give the player more options and what not.

   Though honestly I could care less about s-supports. Just expand on the gba support system and I'll be a happy camper. Forced chemistry is too awkward and leaving it up to the players to interpret is more fun. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Avatar: Sure, as long as they're less involved in the story than Mark was.
S supports: Unless it's a FE4 remake, no.  I think Echoes did just fine with their supports, and I wouldn't mind that style again.

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Avatar: No, unless it's done like FE7 or so, but preferably not

S-supports: Sure, on a few conditions
-Not everyone can S-support everyone, maybe 1 to 3 options per character
-Preferably no children, unless it's genealogy-style

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I know this is just a dream on my part, but I wish that the avatar and S-supports were kind of like how they are in Mass Effect or Dragon Age to an extent, with a custom character whose history you can determine at the beginning of the game yet they are at the same time an already established character. Example: (Blank) Sheperd and (Blank) Hawke 

Then again, I've only played a little of Mass Effect and seen some gameplay of Dragon Age, so I might not know what I'm talking about. :P: 

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Avatar:

Robin was my favorite avatar, but even he got a bit too involved into the story. I would be fine without an avatar, probably would be easier. But if there is an avatar, I would like the to be irreverent to the story (besides when the main party meets the avatar). The beginning of Awakening and FE7 did this well, the Avatar was just there as support and the Tactician, no plot relevance beyond that.

And I would also like them to be less "one-personality fits all!". I felt that Robin matched my personality, so I did not need a new personality. Corrin, on the other hand, felt more like another bland character instead of me. Give a few personality options, or give them options on how to respond, just so the Avatar can me more "me-ish". Or just someone that is realistic.

S - Ranks:

I am fine with S-ranks, as long as they don't pull a Fates and say "Everyone can support with Everyone!!". That makes little sense, some people just don't get along or should get along... 

Children, my preference would be no. Awakening made sense for children to be in-game, the Time-travel gave a legit reason for them to be there. Fates pushed a lot of boundaries, added kids because they could, then slapped a half-written reason for them to exist.

I do really like Echoes: SoV's supports, the support pairs make sense, they are just small conversations that seem reasonable. No S-supports are fine, because the end credits hint or tell who each character ends up with(Boey and Mae made too much sense not to put them together).

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No avatars this time. I didn't mind Corrin, but I definitely think making them an Avatar was a huge mistake. On the other hand I do want S-supports to return, but I think this time they should be more limited. As nice as it is having a variety of support options, it's also an unfortunate testament to which characters got the short end of the stick. Give each character a small, but relatively even, pool of supports with decent pacing, good romantic and platonic options, and unambiguous conclusions and the support system is golden in my opinion. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I actually like how the Avatar is done in Fates. Your not playing yourself, you play Corrin. You just get to select Corrin's name, gender, looks, and most importantly, his class. Being able to switch the classes you use for Corrin and all your units really does add a lot of replayability to the game.

Imagine older games where you could select the class and look you wanted for Roy or Ike and how that would add replayability but wouldn't change the personality of either character.

As for S support. I like them. Some of them work really well. Kaze + Azura seems like a natural pairing. Others feel forced. I'd like S supports to exist but be more limited. Everyone doesn't have to marry everyone else.

Edited by wissenschaft
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  • 3 weeks later...

I’m all for S supports. I love shipping characters, and the system adds a lot of replayability. Plus, it won’t limit A supports like in the GBA games. Not every support is perfect I admit, but I love that the options exist, and sometimes characters you never thought would get along well make a nice couple.

 

I don’t care whether or not there’s an Avatar. If there is, I’ll be fine. If there isn’t, I’ll still be fine.

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I think the Avatars are less relatable than the Lords.

Alm acts more natural in his supports and has a personality.

I know corrin is a Avatar and we project ourselves on to him/her but, he just doesn’t work all that well. He’s too, Mary Sue IMO.

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Yes to avatars, but only if they give them better scripts. I know many people hate avatars, but they could have been and could be a big part of the story only if they had better writing.

Yes to S supports, but minus the unnecessary children with no plot relevance. I mainly want this for the stat boosts, though. And if they do, they also need some better writing. Many support conversations don't make any sense to me. They don't affect the main story, but I'd still like to see some improvement on the conversations.

Edited by Christactics
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I'd love an avatar, but only if they had the same level of story significance that Donnel did, but lots of customization. I feel that an FE story should belong to an established character. S supports are something I could either way on. Maybe not have them all be romantic?

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It wouldn't be the end of the world if we didn't get an Avatar.  But having a character that embodies the player is nice like they did in FE7 with the Tactician.  If they could incorporate that but also not make the story revolve around the pc, then that would be great.

S supports are done right when they don't impact the storyline until the credits.  Before that it should just be stat buffs either exclusive to parring up, or subdued effects to characters in proximity.  Parring up seems to be a new thing that they've embraced and so far I like it, so I think S supports will be easier to achieve by end game.

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An avatar could work, but after seeing how poorly most of the avatars have been done in the past (Fates being the most prominent example, I believe), it would be preferable if they didn't implement avatars into the new Switch game unless they were absolutely confident that they could pull it off.

S-Supports might be nice too, so long as not everyone can s-support with everyone. Fixed relationships would probably be the best way of going about this. Also, children could work, but don't try and pull off some Deeprealms shenanigans like in Fates. But if they scrap S-rank supports altogether, that's fine too. Fanart and shipping will probably continue nonetheless.

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I personally don't want avatars to return especially as a main character, avatars are the exact opposite of what a main character should be:

A good main characters should have a design simple, yet recognizable that makes him/her stand out from others, every aspect of his appearance (hair style/color, clothes, size etc...) are especially chosen to express something about the character (Fire Emblem is inspired by medieval Europe and in Europe, blue is considered as a color of royalty that's why so many main lords have blue hair/clothes for example) while an avatar is customizable and players mostly give him/her a certain physical attributes just because they find it cool/beautiful, which makes the character way less charismatic (that's why you never have a customized character on a video game's cover art).

Main characters also have their own personality traits or at least have the classic-shonen-protagonist personality while avatars tend to have a bland personality made to correspond to most people using the Barnum effect

So having an avatar as a main character is basically following the story of a bland uncharismatic character that I'm supposed to relate to and I don't wan't that for FE 16, creating a good main character is really difficult and when a game choose to make an avatar instead, I often see it as: "We were too lazy to make a main character, make it yourself"

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I'd like to see more use of Avatars since I do really enjoy the whole idea of a unit that is there to represent the player. However, I think putting the Avatar at the centre of everything like Fates did ruins it.

Let the players decide their history a-la FE12. Let the players decide their personalities!

The biggest issue with the Avatars is they don't feel like extentions of the player and while I relate with the Avatars from Awakening and New Mystery, that's because they were nobodies!
If you get to decide on your own history, you don't so much need to be a nobody for an Avatar system to work. Fates sort of did something right in the Class system for Avatars, but I think you should have a personal class, 2 chosen classes and a class that gets determined based on your 2 chosen classes. For example, choosing Mercenary and Mage might give you a Tactician or something like that.

As for S-Supports, I'm hit and miss on it. As for Gameplay mechanics, it's useful in several ways, on the other hand, the whole "Waifu Emblem" debate is still going on. While I'd like to see children as a mechanic again, I'd prefer if they were nothing like Fates' and instead actually relevant to the story or otherwise something of a post-game section so many years later with an entirely different story.

It could be interesting to determine who your Avatar can marry with their personality choice, but that's likely not going to take off for a few reasons...

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Yes to avatars on the condition that they're not story important. I think it's fun to have a semi-customizable unit, gives you a nice layer of strategy to consider. Make them more like pre-Grima-reveal Robin where they're the Ishmael to the main lord's Ahab.

As for S-Supports... I'm not much of a shipper but it would be pretty stupid for them not to include that, given how popular it is. I find it pretty inoffensive, so I vote yes, on the condition that there's no children, and they aren't all "platonic platonic platonic MARRIAGE". They can just be the start of a relationship if they're that committed to platonic A supports suddenly jumping to romantic S supports. Hopefully without children that won't be an issue since then they don't have to fret over depicting pre-marital conception, if that's what's got them spooked.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know Corrin soured some people for the mary-sue qualities, but Corrin was an complete idiot in so many scenarios, and Corrin being the lord with the exclusive sworx defeats the purpose of the avatar, or "my unit," system. 

I love Corrin's default design and the actual canon jobs, but that damn Yato grossly limited what I could do to make Corrin feel like my personal choice of unit. 

My main Conquest run had a Dark Flyer Corrin, but I had to hold onto the Yato to retain stat buffers despite not equipping it. It was a weird limitation that was absent before.

Robin, though, I could build from the ground up into literally anything but the single, exclusive Lord job. I loved that! 

So, I vote yes to avatar, but only if the character is more of a Robin than a Corrin.

 

As for S-ranks, yes, I want them back. But, I don't want children. I love the pair-up mechanics and would rather S-ranking be more about pairing up units you use and like verses the eugenics game played in Awakening and Fates. We wouldn't see half the army be replaced once kids got recruited, either. I would rather the Paladin carting around my cleric S-rank together, than feeling obligated to pair them off with units I never touch just so their kids have better growths. Bad.

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I think we can live without an avatar this time. If there is one then I won't mind though.

I'm fine with S supports, but no children. They can't use time-travel again, and I don't want them to go the Fates route of having children for the hell of it. Maybe if they do it like Genealogy of the Holy War but I don't think they'll do that.

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I'm inclined to say no on both accounts.

Avatars never really worked for me on multiple levels. For one, since they're designed from the ground up to be self insert characters, they have that generic well meaning personality that doesn't sit well with me and tends to just be boring. Playing into the fact that they're self inserts no doubt, is that all three avatars (although its been a while since i've played heroes of light and shadow) are game breaking-ly strong units, especially with a few supports built up, who can be your best unit at any particular role if you want them to.

Another issue is that their ability to be any class and support with any unit robs them of any sort of identity since their character has to be vague enough to not contradict anything that the player has control over, i.e. can't write a support about being a Pegasus knight bc the avatar might not be one. This often results in the avatar's writing being noticeably worse than other characters. They have to exist in this weird nebulous state where they can't lean too far into any personality trait because having to be all things to all people means you can't be too much of anything. Ultimately i just have no confidence they could or would make an avatar that works seamlessly so i'd rather just see it go away.

S rank supports i don't like simply because they often make little sense for the characters involved, looking at you Xander and Peri, and they take focus away from non romantic relationships that where a lot of fun to see in older games

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