New banners announced: Alm's Army/Celica's Army

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I'm still a little shaky with Cancel Affinity. To me, if the skill functions exactly as described, wouldn't that objectively make Cancel Affinity 2 worse than CA 1 and 3?

Cancel Affinity 1 would cancel the opponent's Triangle Adept if you were at an advantage- say, our theoretical Reinhardt with CA would enjoy less of a bonus when attacking my Ruby Sword Olivia, while a Cancel Affinity 2 Reinhardt would still be able to reap the benefits.

Of course, Reinhardt slaughters all Olivia, but imagine if it were someone less overkilly, like... Oboro.

[Faye]

Ooh, I really want Gray. But I'm sitting on 50 orbs like a poor person, should I spend and risk getting yet another Lon'qu or Henry...

[LuxSpes]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Oh, god. Mathilda

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has the most disappointing stat spread ever. It's literally Peri, but worse.

 

As for Cancel Affinity, it looks like the interpretation of the Japanese skill description is correct based on its effects at levels 1 and 2.

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Level 1 negates the opponent's Triangle Adept and gem weapon always.
Level 2 negates the opponent's Triangle Adept and gem weapon only when the user is at disadvantage.
Level 3 reverses the opponent's Triangle Adept and gem weapon only when the user is at disadvantage.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Poor Mathidla. They literally moved 3 defense point to res and randomly decided to remove 1 Atk when compared to Peri.

And I can't help but feel disgust when I see Cancel Affinity 3's description. Why is this in the game before a blade or brave breaker? I still can't wrap my head around who thought this was a good idea. This skill's entire effect is just as dumb as giving blue units Axebreaker and G Tomebreaker. Heck, at least breaker skills stop working after the unit lost a certain amount of HP. 

 

3 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I'm still a little shaky with Cancel Affinity. To me, if the skill functions exactly as described, wouldn't that objectively make Cancel Affinity 2 worse than CA 1 and 3?

 

Spoiler

I'm not sure, but I think CA 1 would make it so that Reinhardt wouldn't get +20% against TA reds and wouldn't get -20% against TA greens. At CA 2, he gets back the +20% against TA reds, but doesn't get -20% against TA greens. And for CA 3, the -20% against TA greens becomes a +20% against TA greenss on top of him still having +20% against TA reds.

[Alkaid]

Thoughts on Sonya?

Spoiler

She swaps -1 atk and -2 spd for +4 res compared to Nino, which doesn't seem like a very good trade.

I can't tell how good or not her tome will be but I'd take the safe guess of it not being better than Gronnblade+ overall right now. (maybe if the meta was swamped with Panic Ploy, but it still isn't)

I'm still rolling for her regardless since that art is god tier.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Alkaid

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Thoughts on Sonya?

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She swaps -1 atk and -2 spd for +4 res compared to Nino, which doesn't seem like a very good trade.

I can't tell how good or not her tome will be but I'd take the safe guess of it not being better than Gronnblade+ overall right now. (maybe if the meta was swamped with Panic Ploy, but it still isn't)

I'm still rolling for her regardless since that art is god tier.

Spoiler

I don't have the statline handy, but I have heard the suggestion of not comparing her unfavourably to Nino, but comparing her favourably to Julia.

I do not advocate taking my word for it.

 

[Kiran]

Delthea is OP. Give her life and death and she'll wreck other mages. It'll also be amusing seeing her single digits def.

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I'm still a little shaky with Cancel Affinity. To me, if the skill functions exactly as described, wouldn't that objectively make Cancel Affinity 2 worse than CA 1 and 3?

Spoiler

Cancel Affinity 1 means resolve combat as if no Triangle Adept or gem weapon.

Cancel Affinity 2 means if you have the advantage, your opponent's Triangle Adept or gem weapon is going to get them killed, but if you have disadvantage, resolve combat as if no Triangle Adept or gem weapon.

Cancel Affinity 3 means if you have the advantage, your opponent's Triangle Adept or gem weapon is going to get them killed, but if you have disadvantage, resolve combat as if weapon triangle didn't exist (assuming Triangle Adept 3 and not a lower level).

Honestly, I think Cancel Affinity would have been more balanced if it simply negated Triangle Adept when at disadvantage and had an HP restriction similar to Wrathful Staff's.

 

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Or do you tank with Fae without buffing her?

I can tank with Fae with Fortify Dragons under Panic. Granted, it's only an Effie and she doesn't even do 20 damage.

More seriously, she can tank blue without trouble even without buffs, but is prone to being worn down after a bit, especially if there is a colorless mixed in. Aether fixes that somewhat, but she's obviously much better with Fortify Dragons up.

 

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

And how, exactly, is limiting unit choices to 'higher-tier' TA units better than limiting unit choices to higher-tier units in general? Part of TA-3's advantage, or so you say, is letting the less viable units do things. If you have to limit your self to the top tier either way, might as well go Horse Emblem.

You said Triangle Adept users need the damage boost to kill enemies in time. I said you're wrong and gave counter examples. Simple as that. Over-generalizing is bad for argumentation if you can't support the statement over the entire scope of the subject.

 

6 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

...Fully buffed Fury 3, +Atk Spring Camilla also survives Sophia without a buff to Atk, and pulse Moonbow sets 2HKO Sophia. This is at +10.

At +0 Sophia's hp drops enough that she's 2HKOd naturally.

Which is exactly why defensive Sophia runs G Tomebreaker (it also guarantees the kill on Julia and other high-Res green mages because Sophia is slow as fuck). With G Tomebreaker, Sophia has a guaranteed kill against Spring Camilla and only takes one hit, rendering her immune to Quick Pulse Moonbow.

[DehNutCase]

25 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Thoughts on Sonya?

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She swaps -1 atk and -2 spd for +4 res compared to Nino, which doesn't seem like a very good trade.

I can't tell how good or not her tome will be but I'd take the safe guess of it not being better than Gronnblade+ overall right now. (maybe if the meta was swamped with Panic Ploy, but it still isn't)

I'm still rolling for her regardless since that art is god tier.

Reinhardt. REINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNHARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDT!

 

But yeah, res matters. Full overkill mage builds are horse emblem anyway. I actually worry Sonya doesn't have enough res, given that she also lost 3 hp. Tome is pretty decent with pulse, for a no support needed nuclear warhead during the first combat with Moonbow & high speed.

 

Edit:

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You said Triangle Adept users need the damage boost to kill enemies in time. I said you're wrong and gave counter examples. Simple as that. Over-generalizing is bad for argumentation if you can't support the statement over the entire scope of the subject.

Fair enough. Mind, without TA-3 Nowi suffers from the Falchion problem (where she just barely misses the OHKO versus bulky sets---assuming Fury 3 on Nowi, and Fury 3 on enemy here). Fae does well, though. She misses 7 more KOs, but they're draws rather than losses.

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Which is exactly why defensive Sophia runs G Tomebreaker (it also guarantees the kill on Julia and other high-Res green mages because Sophia is slow as fuck). With G Tomebreaker, Sophia has a guaranteed kill against Spring Camilla and only takes one hit, rendering her immune to Quick Pulse Moonbow.

Interesting. (Also, Sophia benefits from green being the smallest color, no one in green, barring Raven,* who has movement issues, has the kind of spread to ruin her with a Brave-Axe+ set.)

A theoretical 33/33 offenses Cavalry with L&D, +Atk, Brave Axe+, +6/+6, and Draconic Aura would barely manage the ORKO.

 

I'll agree Sophia's probably better vs. greens, though, if only because god damn do I hate armor's 1 movement so much---Zephiel's spread vs. greens is actually freakishly good, dude takes like 10 damage max, and that's from Cherche, mages get ruined by his 55 hp panic ploy.

Edit:

*and Legion, now

Edited July 13, 2017 by DehNutCase

[hauteclere]

As happy as I am to see more Echoes, every time a unit gets Miwabe Sakura'd I die a little inside.

12 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Thoughts on Sonya?

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She swaps -1 atk and -2 spd for +4 res compared to Nino, which doesn't seem like a very good trade.

I can't tell how good or not her tome will be but I'd take the safe guess of it not being better than Gronnblade+ overall right now. (maybe if the meta was swamped with Panic Ploy, but it still isn't)

I'm still rolling for her regardless since that art is god tier.

I don't think her tome will be better than Gronnblade+ (there's an obvious difference between +10 damage on specials vs +20 damage per attack with all buffs), but Res Ploy and Mirror Strike look pretty interesting, and it's always nice to have a mage who can tank a few magic hits.

I actually really dislike her art for some reason and it makes me sad since I adore her design and personality. I'm glad you like the art though.

[TheTuckingFypo]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

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Cancel Affinity 1 means resolve combat as if no Triangle Adept or gem weapon.

Cancel Affinity 2 means if you have the advantage, your opponent's Triangle Adept or gem weapon is going to get them killed, but if you have disadvantage, resolve combat as if no Triangle Adept or gem weapon.

Cancel Affinity 3 means if you have the advantage, your opponent's Triangle Adept or gem weapon is going to get them killed, but if you have disadvantage, resolve combat as if weapon triangle didn't exist (assuming Triangle Adept 3 and not a lower level).

Honestly, I think Cancel Affinity would have been more balanced if it simply negated Triangle Adept when at disadvantage and had an HP restriction similar to Wrathful Staff's.

Oh! So....

Spoiler

CA1: negates gem weapon and TA skill, but not affinity

CA2: same as ca1, but also negates/neutralizes affinity (as if two grey units are fighting?)

CA3: same as ca2, but affinity is not negated/neutralized, but reverses the triangle for the encounter instead (like those triangle reversing weapons in fates?)

If that's what it is, it makes much more sense now, thanks!

[Alexmender]

Spoiler

Is there any limits to Cancel Affinity? Are colorless units unable to learn it? If not this is awful, TA Raven tome mages will become completely useless, outside of quad builds archers don't care too much about their B skill and this will make them OP. 

 

[Roflolxp54]

Rip, Cancel Affinity seems to be melee-only.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Oh! So....

  Hide contents

CA1: negates gem weapon and TA skill, but not affinity

CA2: same as ca1, but also negates/neutralizes affinity (as if two grey units are fighting?)

CA3: same as ca2, but affinity is not negated/neutralized, but reverses the triangle for the encounter instead (like those triangle reversing weapons in fates?)

If that's what it is, it makes much more sense now, thanks!

I'm not sure what you mean by "affinity".

Spoiler

CA1:

Weapon triangle modifier is always ±20%.

		Your bonus:
You:	Them:	Without Cancel Affinity	With Cancel Affinity
Advantage	Triangle Adept 3	+40%	+20%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 2	+35%	+20%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 1	+30%	+20%
Advantage	No Triangle Adept	+20%	+20%
Neutral		+0%	+0%
Disadvantage	No Triangle Adept	−20%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 1	−30%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 2	−35%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 3	−40%	−20%

CA2:

Weapon triangle modifier never drops below −20%.

		Your bonus:
You:	Them:	Without Cancel Affinity	With Cancel Affinity
Advantage	Triangle Adept 3	+40%	+40%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 2	+35%	+35%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 1	+30%	+30%
Advantage	No Triangle Adept	+20%	+20%
Neutral		+0%	+0%
Disadvantage	No Triangle Adept	−20%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 1	−30%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 2	−35%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 3	−40%	−20%

CA3:

Weapon triangle modifier goes back to zero the higher rank of Triangle Adept your opponent has.

		Your bonus:
You:	Them:	Without Cancel Affinity	With Cancel Affinity
Advantage	Triangle Adept 3	+40%	+40%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 2	+35%	+35%
Advantage	Triangle Adept 1	+30%	+30%
Advantage	No Triangle Adept	+20%	+20%
Neutral		+0%	+0%
Disadvantage	No Triangle Adept	−20%	−20%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 1	−30%	−10%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 2	−35%	−5%
Disadvantage	Triangle Adept 3	−40%	−0%

 

 

EDIT:

1 minute ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Rip, Cancel Affinity seems to be melee-only.

Oh good. Yay. That actually makes things much better.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Rip, Cancel Affinity seems to be melee-only.

Or anyone-but-Reinhardt.

Please let it be that one, it'd be so funny...

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Or anyone-but-Reinhardt.

Please let it be that one, it'd be so funny...

Honestly, that would be pretty hilarious.

Until the Cancel Affinity Litrblade cavalry starts coming in.

 

EDIT: Now I have to figure out exactly who wants this skill. Brave weapons for sure.

EDIT2: I'm so giving it to Peri. SCREW YOU TITANIA.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[DehNutCase]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Honestly, that would be pretty hilarious.

Until the Cancel Affinity Litrblade cavalry starts coming in.

I mean, that would just jump Olwen to the top of the tier list instead---her offenses have always been comparable to Rein, mostly suffering in counter-kill, bulk, and support needed.

 

Edit: Nowi still suffers a bit, though, if people run CA Lucina just to mess with her. Warding Blow, CA Lucina, new meta.

Edited July 13, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Korath88]

5 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Rip, Cancel Affinity seems to be melee-only.

LMAO

fuck Reinhardt lol. At least IntSys knows what they were doing this time. QP moonbow Reinhardt was a mistake 

[Roflolxp54]

Just now, Korath88 said:

LMAO

fuck Reinhardt lol. At least IntSys knows what they were doing this time. QP moonbow Reinhardt was a mistake 

Archers are fucked, too - TA Raventome users will still wall them.

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Honestly, that would be pretty hilarious.

Until the Cancel Affinity Litrblade cavalry starts coming in.

As a user of Litrblade infantry, it doesn't really matter. We overkill a lot anyway.

[Alexmender]

8 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Rip, Cancel Affinity seems to be melee-only.

YES! If it is melee only then it won't interfere with Raven tomes, my Sophia lives!!!

[Korath88]

1 minute ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Archers are fucked, too - TA Raventome users will still wall them.

As they should. The arena remains safe for now.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Edit: Nowi still suffers a bit, though, if people run CA Lucina just to mess with her.

That was the other fear that I had, but Reinhardt was more important.

I could just run Swordbreaker on Ninian without Triangle Adept at all, but I get the suspicion that that won't actually kill Lucina because Ninian is way too weak.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Alexmender said:

YES! If it is melee only then it won't interfere with Raven tomes, my Sophia lives!!!

I mean, CA Brave-Axe Titania would wreck her shit, but lul CA Titania.

[Alexmender]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

I mean, CA Brave-Axe Titania would wreck her shit, but lul CA Titania.

Titania is nothing to worry about, she dies to a decent green like Hector or a buffed Nino. I was scared of B! Cordelia more than anything, now I can rest easy.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Alexmender said:

Titania is nothing to worry about, she dies to a decent green like Hector or a buffed Nino. I was scared of B! Cordelia more than anything, now I can rest easy.

That's mostly because green just doesn't have enough units right now. Fliers are about 7 or 8 points below the best blues, cavalry about the same, even infantry is about 2 points or so below. A green Camus would ruin lives.

Only green's Mages stand-out, and that's Nino and Cecilia carrying the team.