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Revival of Mafia Mafia- Day 3


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12 hours ago, SB. said:

I'm not fond of where your vote still is. I think keeping a vote on Izhuark for pressure and reactions and admitting you've actively forgotten why you're voting him is kind of wack. It feels more likely to come from scum who's trying to keep their actions looking consistent, but in each session it feels like tune changes a lot. I get that rl happens but if still feels more fabricated than naturally flowing to me.

that isn't what i said, i said that i'd forgotten why i initially voted him

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8 minutes ago, SB. said:

i get that you're probably frustrated but as the only one who knows you're town you have to be the one who argues your corner

but more importantly defending myself makes me frustrated which isn't really something i want/need righ tnow, and i honestl don't have a good defense other than "i'm flailing, distracted town that's playing like shit"

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5 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

The thing is that discussing what scum!BBM want to do is pointless since scum!BBM will do is best to seem town and avoid to seem balantly scum. What's more interesting and worth of scum reading is what town!BBM would not do. 

"town bbm wouldn't do it" is literally the same thing as "scum bbm would"

fucking of course scum BBM wants to seem town. How does swapping from SB to me make scum!BBM seem town?

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9 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Taking the opposite reasoning to counter the former add nothing to the point imo because they search for totally different reads.

like what does this even fucking mean

the conclusion is "BBM is scum"

so, you need to ask yourself, "do these actions make sense if we assume BBM is scum"

if it doesn't, then BBM is not scum

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10 minutes ago, CT075 said:

that isn't what i said, i said that i'd forgotten why i initially voted him

*but i am leaving my vote because of newer reasons

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It's two way of catching scum but it's two widely different reasoning that require two different mindset. You can't say than "What BBM as done is scummy because it's what scum want." and "What BBM as done is scummy because it's something town would have no reason to do." is the same thing. There are a lot of case when a town reasoning can overlap with a scum one. Even if it's more easy to think them as binary (something is scum or is'nt) this is not actually the case and there are a lot of reasons for town to do something that may seems scummy.

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like i legitimately don't know what point you're trying to make. you say "town can do things that seem scummy" but that just gives a free pass to handwave fuck anything

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how is "it doesn't make sense for scum X to do this" not a fucking valid counterpoint to "i think X is scum", regardless of how we got to that initial conclusion

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No that's not the case. It's not because town can make something scummy than they shouldn't be pointed down on it. But the possibility of town doing a scummy thing should not be dismissed at the same time.

The thing is that refa never said BBM was scum but that it bothered him that he change his vote so quickly (personally i read here that town!BBM would be unlikely to do that not that Scum!BBM woul do that wich once again is a totally different reasoning)

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'what town would not do' and 'what scum would do' are most of the time pretty similar. Yes scum can emulate town behaviour but they do it for scum motivations. I don't know why you're spending time on this semantic difference izhuark.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Gaius

Idk its frustrating that Cam is rolling over but ultimately I don't think he's wifoming here.

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fuck it, i don't want general theory talk, i want to know why scum!BBM would get off of the SB train to chase me down when literally nobody else was doing it

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For the third time i don't think refa ever meant that BBM was scum but that i was bothering him. Even then there never really was a real SB wagon (wich you seem to think a lot) so scum!BBM could have a lot of reasons to change his vote like trying to get a better case than the one on SB that was pretty weak anyway. But if we think as town if we ignore the explanation that refa missed there was not a lot of reasons for BBM to change vote on you wich is easy to understand why it would not necessarily be scummy but bothering

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i lost this post four times thanks rich text

 

19 hours ago, BBM said:

cam's latest posts feel sort of inconsistent? he's given two reasons for his paperblade vote: 1) he thought paper voted SB and 2) he disliked it because it seemed like a randomly placed weak defence. either of those reasons are okay by themselves but don't really fit together. if he thought paper voted SB then it's not really a random defence. also the reason he gave initially for his izhuark vote (he's voting paperblade for something he's defending izhuark for) is different from the reason he gave here. and neither of those two reasons make sense to me either. the second one is like a buzzword mashup.

the two reasons are reasoning from two different times; the first time was dumb and i don't know what i was thinking and the second one at least is coherent in my brain?

i voted paperblade because i thought paperblade voted SB with the reasoning "shin assuming 9/3 in 12p isn't that scummy", which is really weird.

 

14 hours ago, SB. said:

I'm not fond of where your vote still is. I think keeping a vote on Izhuark for pressure and reactions and admitting you've actively forgotten why you're voting him is kind of wack. It feels more likely to come from scum who's trying to keep their actions looking consistent, but in each session it feels like tune changes a lot. I get that rl happens but if still feels more fabricated than naturally flowing to me.

covered this, but i didn't say that i actively don't know why i'm still on him -- i said that i'd forgotten why i originally voted him. i am voting him because i don't like how he reacted to having pressure initially put on him (ie town shouldn't really be freaking out when being poked at a little)

 

9 hours ago, Prims said:

Agreeing with SB about Cam's Izhuark push; this post looks like he's not very confident in the Izhuark vote and is using the "I may have forgotten my vote but I don't like the reactions" approach to stay on the wagon. I'm actually not the biggest fan of Cam's interactions with Izhuark in general because it could easily be scum browbeating a townie who's likely to get defensive and dig a deeper hole for themself. As is, I'm wary of the possibility he's scum using his spammy posting style as a smokescreen.

this is legit

 

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

Taking this post apart from the discussion i find this post really indicative of how cam at that time tried to shut off my arguments while only reading half of them. This is not scummy in itself but added to the fact he pictured me as scummy for wanting to cut a discussion short is at best incoherent at worst trying to frame me.

This is painting me black pointlessly; how was i cutting any discussion short? if you think i'm wrong, tell me why

 

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

Okay without even talking about the "i don't remember why i voted part", wich talk for itself, what trigger me the most is his "worth keeping track" while i'm not the one to say if i should be i think that in general it is a good excuse for scum to say there are keeping an eye on someone to hide their agenda while still seeming coherent in their reads when they don't have any.

i honestly don't know what that means. are you saying i have no reads? here's one: i think you're scum. i haven't budged from this at all; you're just nitpicking at my wording

 

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

I understand that he may don't understand why you voted me in the first place and now have other reasons to keep his vote but that kind of reasoning can easily hide scum intentions, i don't think there are such things as vote that should not be discussed in mafia even early ones.

so let me get this straight: I'm scum because "incoherence is a good way to mask scum intentions". Care to tell me what those scum intentions might be?

 

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

And the more and more i try to make sense of it the more it seem to boil down to the second option especially the "not going to bother continuing my initial Izhuark vote."

what possible scum advantage could i gain from this?

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7 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

For the third time i don't think refa ever meant that BBM was scum but that i was bothering him. Even then there never really was a real SB wagon (wich you seem to think a lot) so scum!BBM could have a lot of reasons to change his vote like trying to get a better case than the one on SB that was pretty weak anyway. But if we think as town if we ignore the explanation that refa missed there was not a lot of reasons for BBM to change vote on you wich is easy to understand why it would not necessarily be scummy but bothering

what does bothering even mean? that can mean anything. refa even voted for him.

why would scum!BBM feel the need to get off SB, even if it's weak? nobody said anything about him voteparking on SB. nobody was talking about me. swapping to me accomplishes nothing but drawing attention to himself

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like, "getting of SB" is a reasonable thing for scum!BBM to do. "getting off SB and onto me" is not -- why not get onto, say, paperblade, or you, both of whom would have been easier targets?

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in general i think a lot of my issues with izhuark can probably be boiled down to playstyle issues like gaius said, but i'm not a big fan of nitpicking at wording and micro semantics. a lot of his arguments seem to revolve around some nebulous "scum intentions" without ever actually explaining what those intentions are

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idk how I feel about izhu jumping on cam wagon

Cam's reads make sense to me

He voted me because he thought something happened, unvoted because he was wrong, voted izhuark because izhuark was being weird

???

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