Revival of Mafia Mafia- Day 3

[Bluedoom]

End of Night 1.

 

All of you wake up to find BBM...missing?

 

BBM has magically vanished to the afterlife. He was ????

 

It is now Day 2. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends on the 22nd of July, GMT 4:45 pm.

[SB.]

Writing this pre-flip because I thought phase end was earlier than this and I have to be at work.

##Vote: Refa

Going with this because I feel like he's said a lot while staying mostly in the background, kind of avoiding involvement. I mostly remember him being off pushing cases on his own with varying levels of validity (I think he was voting BBM for a because of his vote switch off of me but I think his explanation was fine?). He was actually voting Eli for most of the day for non-content and then switched to Gaius when prodded for mostly the same reason. It never felt like he was actually trying to get something done.

[Junk]

##Vote Prims

apologies if i miss something due to lack of iso's or my own incompetence

Have a strong scumread on prims and have reads on boron and a slight one one refa.

Refa i'll start with first, his vote on elieson is whatever but that's pretty much all he did and then he switched to lord gaius during the last few hours which feels as if he's just tacking a vote on. He didn't say much outside of those events except for saying that he wanted people to ask him about his vote.The only thing that makes me a bit hesitant is that if he was mafia why would he potentially want to bring attention to himself during the last few hours when he could have just chilled and let the death happen instead of getting on the wagon himself.

Boron I have a read on because I feel like she basically handwaved all of izuhark's cam read with "blowing out of proportions". I'd like to see more elaboration on what you meant by that. I feel like the read didn't evolve that much in general and was basically stuck on that original vote and didn't look at too much else. When boron did mention izuhark she pretty much said he hasn't really done anything to make her feel better or what I felt was handwaving as mentioned above. Hope to see more thoughts on what she thinks of other players such as refa and prims.

 

Prims comes off the scummiest to me because he never really gave a reason why cam was scummier than lord gaius and I find it weird that he tried to start a wagon on lord gaius way before the phase was supposed to end. Also he voted for cam over lord gaius but the majority of his vote feel as if cam should come off as less scummy since outside of cam's post on izuhark he pretty much just talks about how cam "might be doing this to mask him as scum, or how he could be browbeating a townie". His case on gaus felt more definite so I don't understand why he just didn't keep his vote on gaius. At the time no one seemed to be too suspicious of gaius but SB was voting cam and prims suddenly started caring about gaius more when people started to feel suspicious of him so the timing of everything feels weird to me as well.

 

since I don't want to make a wall post i'll make a new post about the other players

[Junk]

Izuhark strikes me as town because gut+ while his logic on paperblade wasn't good I don't see why mafia would potentially want to bring attention to themselves by voting for paperblade. I feel like scum would just want to let things play out instead of throwing themselves headfirst into the carnage. I also feel like mafia would try to shut down discussion in a more subtle way instead of going "discussion ended" or whatever. As for izuhark's cam vote while it seems like just a pile on vote my gut doesn't see scum intent in it. 

While I said this was going to be a town/neutral post shin actually is coming off as kind of scummy although it could just be shin being shin. Shin's self vote is whatever if he does it as both alignments. However the rest of his content feels kind of FLUFFY. But basically he talks a bunch but then comes to conclusions such as cam's boring or funky izuhark's confusing. I'm not really seeing anything definite outside of lord gaius which is just prims sheep.

 

SB feels neutral, I didn't get much from his earlier interactions and his cam vote reasoning as well as his refa reasoning (which I think so as well) is fine. gut gives me idk though

paperblade feels gut town although i've heard as scum or town he's pretty much the same on D1.

Elieson is waffly for me, not sure why scum would just place a vote on paperblade since that'd accomplish nothing at the time but at the same time it could have been an easy way to slip under the radar. (on a sidenote I thought i'd be subbing for him but i subbed into a slot i didn't even know existed!)

this is going to be half assed but cam i'm just having trouble seeing scum intent in pretty much anything he does and i'm gutreading him as town. 

so summary

prims(because starting that lord gaius wagon feels way off+other reasoning i gave)>boron>shin>refa(as still not entirely sure why scum would tack a vote on when they could have just chilled)

 

 

[Prims]

I said when I switched back to Gaius that I voted Cam because I wanted to see how he'd react to a wagon on him and my Gaius vote wasn't going anywhere at the time (Gaius hadn't recently posted).

[CT075]

i stayed up all night doing fuck all so i don't have the energy to make a real post but i want to note that after a solid 24 hours away from the game i'm feeling frustrated town on izhuark moreso than scum now; it would have been pretty easy to swap to gaius towards phase end (possibly citing "i thought we needed hammer") but there's instead some weird thing vaguely defending gaius (had he said anything about gaius before ever? i didn't see it during a brief skim). i won't say that "he's making a show of defending the incoming town flip" never crossed my mind, but my gut is telling me that that would have happened sooner if it were the case.

[Sunwoo]

My action failed.

##Vote: Elieson

Reasons for this were stated sometime in the last phase. He's kind of unmemorable and he never really got past giving opinions on earlier D1 stuff when he did get back. I get that having a life is a thing, but he never did get very far on giving his opinions on stuff that was actually relevant. Paperblade vote also feels a bit weird, and kind of just there. Also, no one said anything about you having said ISOs. I'm complaining because I want ISOs, how the fuck did you even think that statement was talking about you.

Izuhark ... idk. I mean, so Lord Gaius wasn't scum hard defending a townie to look good, and Izuhark never actually jumped on Gaius at the end although it would've been easy. I still dislike Izuhark, but I hate playing with him and would've never signed up for this game if I knew he was playing so maybe I'm just overly biased against him, though.

At some point today, I really need to go reread Prims, BBM, and SB again. Their posts just sound reasonable, even if I don't always agree with them, so I'm having a hard time finding anything I think is scummy. But maybe I should just reread the game again to see if there's anything I actually do find scummy.

[Shin]

1 hour ago, commie scum said:

Izuhark strikes me as town because gut+ while his logic on paperblade wasn't good I don't see why mafia would potentially want to bring attention to themselves by voting for paperblade. I feel like scum would just want to let things play out instead of throwing themselves headfirst into the carnage. I also feel like mafia would try to shut down discussion in a more subtle way instead of going "discussion ended" or whatever. As for izuhark's cam vote while it seems like just a pile on vote my gut doesn't see scum intent in it. 

 

Remember scum can make bad moves too! I'm struggling to see how the "discussion ended" appears towny, surely town would want to try and get something meaningful from it instead of defending themselves? Either explanation makes sense, but I don't agree that any of that comes across as town. However, I generally like the tone and methodology of Junko so far otherwise. Zeonth pretty much just makes a WAFFLE about Izhuark, but I feel that Junko is at least making an effort. 

I'm hard pressed to put a case on Eli. The main difference between Gaius and Eli was that Gaius made a point about early game halfway through and then offered another "read" with almost no substance. Eli just hasn't been around in general.

Looking back, Cam actually kinda bothers me, because he's incompetent. Initially, I thought he was just incompetent, but that attempt to softpush Boron came across as a lazy attempt to get a wagon going. I see no reason for town to try and do that unless there was a solid case, and his backtrack bothers me more in retrospect. I'd be interested to hear some of his not-Izhuark reads. Izhuark is guilty of the same, but the whole Boron thing makes me want to go for Cam ahead of him.

##Vote: Camdar

My bro, Refa, kinda looks bad because I can't actually see why he didn't agree with Cam/Izhuark being lynched - despite being asked by Prims and saying he doesn't want to lynch either of them. Either the lack of ISO's has crippled my reading ability or he only swapped because he didn't want to be voting Eli. I still have this horrible thing where I townread Refa regardless, maybe I just want him to be town!

Boron, is Eli's absence the highest on your agenda right now? I can see the logic that he probably needs a prod, but is he more voteworthy than say Izhuark. I hope you don't make me sleep on the couch for asking!

[Junk]

@Prims maybe it's just me but the fact that you tried to start a wagon on cam to "test his reactions" feels off to me especially since it was mid day 1. What did you think he would do?And then when you voted for lord gaius again you pretty much just said cam was freaking out which is good. It just feels like too easy of an excuse to hop off cam and back onto lg.

[Junk]

@Shin I don't get shins logic  with the whole cam starting a wagon on boron. How is a gut feeling going to get anyone to vote for that person? Regarding izhuark i guess scum can make bad moves but  i feel like izuhark would be damn near suicidal especially with the blatant "end of discussion" thing. All of his actions are only drawing attention towards him and while I could say that possibly his paperblade vote was bad scum, trying to end the discussion as he did i can't really why a scum would do that. 

I also might be townreading boron now for a reason but i'll talk about that later since i need some clarification on something first.

 

 

[Shin]

1 minute ago, commie scum said:

@Shin I don't get shins logic  with the whole cam starting a wagon on boron. How is a gut feeling going to get anyone to vote for that person? Regarding izhuark i guess scum can make bad moves but  i feel like izuhark would be damn near suicidal especially with the blatant "end of discussion" thing. All of his actions are only drawing attention towards him and while I could say that possibly his paperblade vote was bad scum, trying to end the discussion as he did i can't really why a scum would do that. 

I also might be townreading boron now for a reason but i'll talk about that later since i need some clarification on something first.

 

 

My Shin logic is that Cam's read on Boron was weak and defensive, and then he backtracked as soon as it was discredited. I'm not sure why Town!Cam would actively pursue something like that then completely abandon it. He did say he'd missed posts, but looking back, that doesn't really say much for the strength of the case in general.

[Sunwoo]

25 minutes ago, Shin said:

Boron, is Eli's absence the highest on your agenda right now? I can see the logic that he probably needs a prod, but is he more voteworthy than say Izhuark. I hope you don't make me sleep on the couch for asking!

It's not so much his absence, but the fact that when he was here he chose to ignore more pertinent things and prioritize stuff that seemed like it was from ED1. Even if he still found Paper to be scummiest of everything that had happened, ignoring the big Cam-Gaius-Izuhark-Boron debacle entirely doesn't really come off as a good thing.

Currently, I think it's worth more of a vote than Izuhark right now -- whom I really need to reread to make sure my bias isn't coming into my read on him. Although due to reasons, I'm a bit wary of him.

[Prims]

1 hour ago, commie scum said:

@Prims maybe it's just me but the fact that you tried to start a wagon on cam to "test his reactions" feels off to me especially since it was mid day 1. What did you think he would do?And then when you voted for lord gaius again you pretty much just said cam was freaking out which is good. It just feels like too easy of an excuse to hop off cam and back onto lg.

I thought Cam was scummy, although not as likely to flip scum as Gaius, and wanted to see how he would react to more pressure so I could get a better read on him. His reaction made me feel better and I wanted to try and get a Gaius wagon going since a lot of people had expressed interest in that lynch despite not voting him, so I switched back. That's the best I can explain my actions.

##Vote: Paperblade
On a re-read, his D1 content fails to inspire, I feel. Even his ED1 SB vote that helped get the game going required Cam to comment before he actually made it - before that it was just a one-off comment. Overall, it just doesn't really look like he was making an effort to scumhunt. He kept a vote down on Izhuark all day but wasn't particularly passionate about it - it's interesting here when he asks why BBM thinks Izhuark is town but when BBM responds he just... doesn't really try to convince BBM or continue the discussion. Besides that he didn't look into anybody else the entire day besides maaaybe a couple comments about Gaius and Elie where you still can't really tell what Paperblade thinks about them after reading the post.

I could get on board with a Refa lynch. I agree he was a lesser presence on D1 and spent too much time coasting on the Elie vote. I don't like the way he went out of his way to say the Gaius vote is just as bad when he switched; that type of self-deprecation reads like scum to me because he's overly concerned with how people are interpreting his actions.

SB might be scum, honestly. I don't really have a case there, my intuition just tells me his play this game looks like his scum play. What he said about Gaius here looks like he knows Gaius is about to flip town and is trying too hard to justify why scum!Gaius would post the VT claim. Like, the "I think scum!Gaius' team isn't here to help him out" line specifically bugs me on this front.

Zeonth's last minute posts and Junko's subsequent effort makes me feel better about that slot, so despite the lack of D1 content I'm not really interested in lynching it. Elie I'm not too sure about because even though his last minute vote on Paperblade is right he kind of... didn't say anything about all the people who were actually popular candidates when he caught up. I want to hear more from him today.

[Refa]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

My action failed.

same

[Sunwoo]

13 minutes ago, Refa said:

same

Interesting. If you're being truthful, then I can think of one or two possibilities for that. Either we targeted the same person and that person has an ability to make actions fail, or there's some third role is in play that made both of us fail.

Paperblade did seem pretty passive on D1, yeah. I was going to give him until mid-D2 to work his town Paperblade magic, but if he doesn't do that then it's probably closer to his scum play.

[Junk]

refa's telling the truth, i targeted you boron but got redirected to refa

[Sunwoo]

Just now, commie scum said:

refa's telling the truth, i targeted you boron but got redirected to refa

If you're claiming what I'm thinking you're claiming, then why did my action still fail then?

[Junk]

idk, all i know is that i got redirected to refa

[Sunwoo]

4 minutes ago, commie scum said:

idk, all i know is that i got redirected to refa

... Guess I can't quite discount that my target might've been the reason I failed then ;/

Also, I think Junko does look more townish because of this claim. He didn't have to reveal what he did, but it cleared a couple of things that we could've wasted time speculating on.

[Prims]

Or Boron just got targeted by a scum roleblock.

[j00]

Votals D2:

Refa (1): SB
Prims (1): junko
Elieson (1): Boron
Camtech (1): Shin
Paperblade (1): Prims

Not voting: Camtech, Paperblade, Refa, Elieson, Izhuark

Edited July 19, 2017 by j00

[Sunwoo]

3 minutes ago, Prims said:

Or Boron just got targeted by a scum roleblock.

Do you think a 12-player game would have both a town and scum roleblock, especially when it's been confirmed there are vanilla players in the game? Aside from my awful first mafia game, I can't recall that happening in recent memory.

[Prims]

Sure. They're different in function and we don't know the full details of either of them.

[Sunwoo]

3 minutes ago, Prims said:

Sure. They're different in function and we don't know the full details of either of them.

Fair enough, I'll just drop this line of speculation then since it's not getting us anywhere.

[Junk]

a scum roleblocker is definitely possible for reasons i don't want to give right now. Looking at prims new post, well I see your reasoning prims and I guess it makes sense but idk it still does come off as an easy way to switch but i think if we keep on arguing this we'll just go in circles. I do like his paper content however as well as his SB content. 

Shin's reasoning  for the most part  makes  sense but even then voting cam for what was essentially two or three short posts out of all the content in this thread does make the vote a little weak. However doesn't feel like he really "backtracked" on his opinion since he already said he wasn't really going to push it.

Sigh, i guess i'll go reread paper and SB which means having to think again, no!