Revival of Mafia Mafia- Day 3

[Prims]

Another thing: my town-read on Izhuark is waning because after the list post he hasn't done much except respond to people again, which is making him much less active than D1 and there's a correlation with less pressure on him as well. His approach seems to be "make a vote, respond to people who might vote you" rather than to keep up with the day's going-ons, which strikes me as scum play.

[Junk]

##unvote

##vote shin

I don't want to lynch paper yet as I hope he can get a sub

was at a hospital with spotty internet and only viewd thread occasionally as i didn't want to use all my data so sorry for not being as active today

At this point I'm still not happy with prims day 1 but I like his day 2 so far and I feel like this vote isn't going anywhere.

I already explained what i thought about shin's day 1 (said a lot but i had no idea what he was thinking outside of lg due to use of his words). However I did actually go back and found one thing where shin says "There's a bunch of inactives this game, which ANNOYS ME. I could go for either Gaius, who made like one lame point about early game halfway through the day and hasn't contributed since, and Izhuark who basically wants to lynch Cam. There's a fairly hefty gap between Gaius/Izhuark and Cam/SB, which my first post didn't highlight." 

I find it hard to believe that this hefty gap could suddenly be turned into "torn between cam and izuhark but cam push on boron so choose cam" so quickly and I already said I feel like shin is blowing cam's "abandoning of boron" out of proportions since he said in his first post that he never was going to push it anyway. Basically feel like shin's just throwing stuff out there hoping it sticks. 

I also disagree with boron that shin staunchly defending his read is necessarily townie as i'm not even sure who else he could vote for outside of izuhark which would come off as bad since he said he prefers cam now. 

Townreading boron as I don't really know why scum would claim they were roleblocked immediately as if we were to first assume that the game has a decent amount of vanillas, claiming a pr would be dangerous and it'd look bad if boron wasn't dead. Refa as a read really hasn't changed for me, prims is probably 2nd after shin, and the rest of my reads are still the same.

[Elieson]

1 hour ago, Prims said:

 

@Elieson get the fuck in here and also vote paper with me

EiMM is officially done so I can put that meme behind me. Doing dad stuff now and I'll be fully dedicated in about 4-5 hours because I'll have actually nothing else distracting me

[Prims]

2 hours ago, Prims said:

While I don't know what's happening in EiMM, the Paper sub request doesn't really change my opinion on the slot (demotivated scum is a thing) and if anything I think it's more likely to come from mafia at this point but I'm not sure how to articulate why. I guess it's because it happened in response to pressure on him? Town in a bad headspace would want to sub out if outside forces are interfering with their scumhunting (eg back on D1), but scum in the same situation would want be more inclined to sub out if they can't properly defend themself against a wagon (right now).

OKAY having skimmed the EiMM drama this doesn't bug me as much now (it happened around the time people were cancelling the game) but I still ultimately think the slot is scum. w/e

[Prims]

##Unvote
##Vote: Izhuark

wyd

[Prims]

On D1 Izhuark's play didn't bug me too much because, hey, he may have not been doing much other than squabbling with Cam and responding to people, but also it was Day 1 so there wasn't really much more to do. Now it isn't Day 1 and there's more to talk about, so the fact that his play still seems to follow a pattern of "make vote, vanish, only post to respond to people who find him suspicious" starts to get concerning. It doesn't help that his scumhunting isn't too strong - Elie is a really easy vote to make right now and his case doesn't seem to go much beyond "Elie was inactive and only popped up at the end of the day".

Despite switching my vote I still do heavily suspect the Paper slot as I think since Paper dislike playing scum he's more likely to be affected by outside issues to the point of subbing out as mafia, especially with votes stacked on him. In light of skimming what happened in EiMM though I'm willing to give the sub a chance.

[Prims]

actually Izhuark also cited EiMM as a reason for inactivity so I don't even fucking know anymore. EiMM was a mistake. I kind of want to just turbo Shin and be done with today.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, I'm probably going to continue being useless for the time being, but I am keeping up with the thread. Prims brings up a good point about Izuhark, actually. Most of the people who suspected him on D1 have dropped him as a priority for now (or at the very least aren't pushing him), but he hasn't really done much scum hunting now that the pressure is off him. On the contrary, he seemed more motivated when there was a fire under his ass. His only real reads on people this phase was a list post in early D2, and he hasn't really contributed much since?

Also, I still think that there's something odd between Refa and SB (and by extension, Cam) interactions, but I can't really place my finger on it. Yeah, they're all voting Shin, but something about the progression of those votes just seems really odd. Reading back on it right now, I feel like Refa's vote is the weak link. The timing of it just feels a bit off. It kind of feels like he was almost trying to goad Cam into voting Shin (or at least questioning why he didn't vote him sooner)? Also, the fact that Refa's entire case on Shin fell apart so quickly based on one missed quote feels like the case was never that strong. Or something. I don't know, I'll look into it a bit more. SB's vote bothers me less because the timing is less weird for me.

I don't even know for sure what happened in EiMM, but call me back when people are done venting drama about it in-thread. I hate EiMM, and all this is doing is reaffirming my hate for EiMM.

[Sunwoo]

Like seriously. EiMM was meant to be more of a filler non-serious game to be played when there wasn't enough interest in non-EiMM games, and now it's a "big deal" or something. Could you guys not bring up EiMM reasons as an excuse in this game? It's done and over with, if it put you in enough of a bad headspace I understand that but "I'm busy with another game" is not and has never been an excuse for being lackluster in another game.

[Sunwoo]

Fuck I'm actually kind of mad now. I'm out.

[Prims]

Just now, Sunwoo said:

Like seriously. EiMM was meant to be more of a filler non-serious game to be played when there wasn't enough interest in non-EiMM games, and now it's a "big deal" or something. Could you guys not bring up EiMM reasons as an excuse in this game? It's done and over with, if it put you in enough of a bad headspace I understand that but "I'm busy with another game" is not and has never been an excuse for being lackluster in another game.

 

Just now, Sunwoo said:

Fuck I'm actually kind of mad now. I'm out.

same

[CT075]

33 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Fuck I'm actually kind of mad now. I'm out.

me_irl

[Refa]

11 hours ago, SB. said:

Maybe I'm not explaining this part well? I don't expect him to be annoyed, but that's generally why a townie would become so sure of themselves to the point that their case is slightly non-nonsensical, and I don't see a sign of that in Shin's posts. The only other I could really think of would be something role related, and if Shin has a guilty on Cam I'm more than willing to eat my words.

Yeah, fair enough.

10 hours ago, Prims said:

While I don't know what's happening in EiMM, the Paper sub request doesn't really change my opinion on the slot (demotivated scum is a thing) and if anything I think it's more likely to come from mafia at this point but I'm not sure how to articulate why. I guess it's because it happened in response to pressure on him? Town in a bad headspace would want to sub out if outside forces are interfering with their scumhunting (eg back on D1), but scum in the same situation would want be more inclined to sub out if they can't properly defend themself against a wagon (right now).

RE: Refa's case: I've felt better about Cam since his post-spam so I don't know what you expect. I don't really want to lynch him today.

That's a good point regarding Paper, actually.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember reading you feeling better about Cam in your posts.  You not wanting to lynch him today doesn't influence my read on you.

10 hours ago, Prims said:

Refa posts a lynch priority
Refa votes me over Elie despite Elie being higher up in his lynch priority

:thinking:
This bugs me because I can see scum!Refa being concerned he'd get flak if he jumped on the Elie wagon at that point in the day without Elie doing anything. It's weird though because Elie was his main suspicion on D1. Normally I could see this being a pressure vote on me but well if he would do that as town then he shouldn't really be voting me LMAO

1) Lynch priorities change, especially considering I reread all of your content.

2) You flipping as scum will break the game open in terms of associative reads, whereas Elie flipping scum will lead to a repeat of today.

9 hours ago, Prims said:

While I said I'd vote the wagon just to get rid of the inactive, his play this game reminds me more of Flaming Hot from Volcanic than anything. Which is unfortunate because I don't like to remember hosting Volcanic.

Can you elaborate on why this is?

8 hours ago, commie scum said:

Townreading boron as I don't really know why scum would claim they were roleblocked immediately as if we were to first assume that the game has a decent amount of vanillas, claiming a pr would be dangerous and it'd look bad if boron wasn't dead. Refa as a read really hasn't changed for me, prims is probably 2nd after shin, and the rest of my reads are still the same.

If Scum!Boron's fakeclaim is a PR, then she'd claim roleblocked.  It's not alignment indicative.  Her claim read as obvious town before because I couldn't see why scum would lie about being roleblocked at the start of the day, but apparently you actually did roleblock her.

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, I still think that there's something odd between Refa and SB (and by extension, Cam) interactions, but I can't really place my finger on it. Yeah, they're all voting Shin, but something about the progression of those votes just seems really odd. Reading back on it right now, I feel like Refa's vote is the weak link. The timing of it just feels a bit off. It kind of feels like he was almost trying to goad Cam into voting Shin (or at least questioning why he didn't vote him sooner)? Also, the fact that Refa's entire case on Shin fell apart so quickly based on one missed quote feels like the case was never that strong. Or something. I don't know, I'll look into it a bit more. SB's vote bothers me less because the timing is less weird for me.

I'm not voting Shin.  Cam had an entire page where he was bitching about Shin's read on him, so him not voting Shin read as disingenuous.  Him voting Shin isn't what made me feel better about him but rather his reasoning for not voting (not being confident in his reads) is how I'd expect him to answer as town.  Already addressed my Shin case in my last response to you.  Something that bothers me here is that you said there's something odd between me/SB/Cam's interactions and yet the only person you're actually bothered by is me (which is whatever, that's not the point here).  Why are you vaguely suspicious of people on the Shin wagon when you don't even have strong thoughts on him other than "eh he didn't really bother me that much"?  I wouldn't care if Shin was a hard townread, but that's clearly not the case.

Also what happened to the followup regarding BBM's cases?  Legitimate question, I don't know if you mentioned it before or what.

[SB.]

I think Paper subbing out is because he's mad, not because he's maf. He might still be scum and if we don't get a sub I'd probably be fine with lynching him overall, @ marf you have 2 subs listed in op what is happening?

Still not feeling great so I'm gonna come back to this later.

[Bluedoom]

No answer from eclipse, currently contacting Faerie knight.

[Elieson]

Oh kay here we fucking go. CopyPaste from MSWord. Please work

1.      

Page 1

a.       Shin’s gigantic RVS on Refa in #20 was a lot of work, and the clincher of scumteam = 3 at the end of his post is a bit too specific for an RVS post.

                                                               i.      Gaius picks up on it and calls him out

                                                             ii.      Shin responds with Shinself

 

2.      

Page 2

a.       Refa goes full Refa

b.      I Helix out Shin and vote for him

c.       Shin totally agrees with me and does the same. I don’t buy it

d.      Prims claims numbers, 93 because why not, then votes shin for Mafia count

                                                               i.      Now, Gaius, me, Shin and Prims are voting for Shin. The only really unexplained vote on Shin is from myself I guess

e.      Paperblade claims SK

f.        SB hops on the Shin wagon

                                                               i.      BBM countervotes SB

g.       Paper/Cam get into it, Cam calling paper out for being eh in the quality department. Doesn’t feel forced to me

 

 

3.      

Page 3

a.       Paper climbs on SB because of SB’s vote timing it looks like?

b.      Boron votes for SB, for voting for Shin.

                                                               i.      Is it just me or is SB being voted for silly reasons? Shin clearly has a reason to be identified as scum, SB being the fourth person to rehash that same reason just seems pointless to me

c.       SB votes Paper in self-defense with a fair reason IMO.

                                                               i.      Why is SB scum again?

d.      Izhuark votes Paper with borrowed SB logic. This looks forced, but I think it’s more because of the semantics in the justification rather than the vote itself.

e.      @BBM the only person who can turbohammer people and get away with it is kirsche. If I couldn’t do it as dondont151 then nobody else can

f.        Other discussion between SB/Izhu/BBM that doesn’t amount to much. Nothing here feels like scum

 

4.        

Page 4

a.       BBM responds to SB asking him about Paper. Backs off of SB kind of reluctantly, then votes Cam for…honestly, I don’t quite get this. I’ll get back to this

b.      Cam makes a fair point about Izhuark, but I think Izhu just went with what was just happening. IMO if he was being super careful, Izhu wouldn’t have risked/actually done a contradiction of sorts. Bit of a stretch?

c.       Izhu’s kind of flipping his shit at Cam though. I wonder if stress was getting to him…Izhu doesn’t really have a high stress Meta but he doesn’t have a No-stress meta like…well, nobody. He’s becoming more difficult to understand though; my thoughts are that Izhu’s reacting genuinely and struggling to rush out thoughts into his secondary language; he’s clearly trying to take the time to form cases and word them effectively, why wouldn’t he do the same in defense. Town IMO

d.      Izhu kinda just apologizes to the world.

e.      BBM makes a fair counterpoint/clarification demand to Cam. I can’t see BBM/Cam being same-aligned with the way this was asked

f.        Boron votes for Izhu, after defending Paper/SB as in-town fighting. I don’t really agree with this vote. Are you voting for him because you want answers, because you’re not satisfied with his case or because you don’t like how he tried to shut down discussion? This entire thing looks like a stretched vote because with Izhuark definitely involved in discussion, a vote doesn’t seem like a really efficient way to dig out answers. Also that meta dig! C’mon! It’s been like 3 games since we D1 Turbo’d a doctor!

                                                               i.      Later justification in response to Refa implies that she finds his AtE holding more weight than his Paper vote. I’m still not agreeing with this; it should be the other way around. SB/Paper definitely didn’t seem like they were RVS’ing at the time. The logic of this whole post just feels backwards.

g.       Refa Refa Refa; Votes for BBM for…ok this isn’t really terrible. BBM jumped. I can kind of see why after skimming and looking at hindsight but I don’t think it’s really a scummy thing BBM did, I just think it’s a silly thing he did. Later calls Boron out for voting for SB despite not really finding SB scummy. This is a fair point

h.      Izhuark pulls what I’m defining as classic Izhuark. I think I’m done looking at the kid unless he does something to really draw my attention.

 

5.      

Page 5

a.       BBM calls prims out for a boring Shin vote. Fair callout IMO.

                                                               i.      Knowing that BBM was N1 ?killed?, I’m actually gut-reading this as a kill by prims. Presumptuous I know, but my gut’s only wrong 50% of the time

b.      Gaius votes for Prims, calls the Izhu wagon bad and says he’d vote for Boron if not for prims, to prims

c.       Wait a sec, Prims what’s going on? I get the callout on Gaius but zero clarification from Gaius (who hasn’t posted until now) obviously means that he doesn’t have a case on boron but has a case on you….yours is a stupid simple case and Boron’s is a bit more complex anyway. It needs explaination; your vote just went HOLY SHIT SIRENS ON mode. What the heck

d.      Cam eats half the Page; I don’t mind his stance on everything, other than his dire need for a Gaius’ clarity wrt his prims vote. The clarity was just that; it’s not like some grand operatic case here.

e.      Refa ends the Page; I guess read above for my stance on SB/Paperblade? Actually, I’m not really holding a strong opinion of it one way or the other; Paperblade claimed SK and I don’t think he was doing it as a joke since he pretty much seems serious on all other levels, but his play has been fine, and SB feels town overall, nothing he’s done strikes me as scummy or even sassy

 

6.      

Page 6

a.       Woah Gaius has a reasons and fuck I’d townread him just for this justification as to why he’s voting for Prims over Boron.

                                                               i.      Not gonna comment much else on Gaius unless it pertains to his defenses since he;s dead anyway

b.      BBM can you re-justify why Cam’s two reasons to vote for paper don’t work in tandem? Your latter explanaition looks like you’re saying that Cam’s just all over the place, but his reasons don’t really contradict each other

                                                               i.      Lol Cam doesn’t remember why he really voted for Izhuark. I guess that means it was a shitty case, if cam can’t remember it

c.       Refa, you’re probably town. THERE, thoughts on you. Idk you’re not coming off as scum to me, and you’re questioneering a lot. That’s about it. Glad you see the light re: Prims case though

d.      SB why are you townreading Boron again?

e.      Paperblade, is your Izhuark vote just a prod for more global analysis or do you actually think he’s scum?

 

tl;dr Halfway through D1 (up to Page 7), I've got:

1. High Gut-scumread on Shin for basically being Shin self-voting, and a higher Actual-scumread for the numbers drop
2. Relatively high Actual-scumread on Boron, for pushing SB hard on his Shin case, voting for Izhuark without differentiating between whether Izhu's being scummy or just needs to give better answers, and calling out Appeal to Emotion as Izhuark's leading headache-inducing scumtell. Izhuark did plenty, but it feels like all the wrong things are being brought up as cases against him
3. Mild scumread on prims, for the callout at Gaius being a pretty meaty post that just came out of flipping nowhere, 
4. Paperblade's ?joke? SK claim rubs me the wrong way. I don't think this was a joke, but I don't really have a problem with anything else he's said. Pretty neutral other than the SK thing
5. Many general townreads (Refa, Izhuark, SB, Cam mostly) Neutral Read on BBM so far, but he's dead so it doesn't matter

[Elieson]

GDI SF

the point of the above post was to summarize my thoughts so far:

tl;dr Halfway through D1 (up to Page 7), I've got:

1. High Gut-scumread on Shin for basically being Shin self-voting, and a higher Actual-scumread for the numbers drop
2. Relatively high Actual-scumread on Boron, for pushing SB hard on his Shin case, voting for Izhuark without differentiating between whether Izhu's being scummy or just needs to give better answers, and calling out Appeal to Emotion as Izhuark's leading headache-inducing scumtell. Izhuark did plenty, but it feels like all the wrong things are being brought up as cases against him
3. Mild scumread on prims, for the callout at Gaius being a pretty meaty post that just came out of flipping nowhere, 
4. Paperblade's ?joke? SK claim rubs me the wrong way. I don't think this was a joke, but I don't really have a problem with anything else he's said. Pretty neutral other than the SK thing
5. Many general townreads (Refa, Izhuark, SB, Cam mostly) Neutral Read on BBM so far, but he's dead so it doesn't matter

 

I'm jumping into a meeting but will have the rest up later. D2 looks short so far and being halfway through randomness of D1 means i'm done cutting through that fat and most of what's left is actual content worth analyzing

[Shin]

SF still remembers that post that I didn't want, neat. I just got back from my graduaSHIN. It kinda looks like I'm slighty SCREWED. I'm going to continue with my promise of giving a bunch of reads and then I'll let you FOOLS decide my fate. I'd kinda like to avoid being lynched, but even if it happens, at least I feel like I've contributed to the game.

Big post will follow for real, but I'm claiming Yamcha, the Butt of All Jokes. I'm essentially vanilla except I know who kills me when I'm successfully killed during the night... because apparently I know when someone owns me but can do nothing about it. Nice role, Marth!

 

[Refa]

lmao that's amazing

[Shin]

You know it bro, I just hope there isn't a Saibaman in the game... or a Tien, a Jackie Chun... an old man android... and life in general? Post still coming, joke was totally worth it.

[Refa]

Elie, I read through your post.  It's enough for me to not vote you, but not relevant enough to the current proceedings for that read to be any stronger.  WRT your cases, you brought up a good point regarding Boron's Izhuark case.

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

You know it bro, I just hope there isn't a Saibaman in the game... or a Tien, a Jackie Chun... an old man android... and life in general? Post still coming, joke was totally worth it.

Is that actually your role?

[Refa]

Okay wait, I don't think I explained myself well enough there.  I think the way you're reasoning through things and coming up with your reads are fine, but it's harder for me to get a handle on you because those reads aren't as relevant.

[Shin]

No, I'm serious, that was a legit role claim. I was confused when Gaius flipped because the game didn't seem to have any cohesive flavour in terms of characters but I didn't want to reveal how LAME I was at the time.

[Elieson]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

Okay wait, I don't think I explained myself well enough there.  I think the way you're reasoning through things and coming up with your reads are fine, but it's harder for me to get a handle on you because those reads aren't as relevant.

I know I know; I just got out of meetings and I'll be more current when I finish parsing through. My boss is out of the office for the rest of the day so I've got time with few distractions to finish catching up

 

19 minutes ago, Shin said:

Big post will follow for real, but I'm claiming Yamcha, the Butt of All Jokes. I'm essentially vanilla except I know who kills me when I'm successfully killed during the night... because apparently I know when someone owns me but can do nothing about it. Nice role, Marth!

 

This Just In: Marth's a jerk?

[Junk]

i kind of hate to go into rolespec but the thing that's making me pause is that wouldn't shin's claim basically him confirmed town and while obviously some claims such as cop with cc can make someone likely town, a vanillia with one unfortunate trait being able to be confirmed town seems weird since it's essentially useless outside of its vote unlike say a cop.