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Fixing your least favorite/ favorite Character


Hero_Lucina
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Favorite - Marty (Thracia 776):

  • Give him nonzero base Skill and Speed and boost his growths in those stats just a little and that would honestly be enough for me

Least Favorite - Severa (Awakening):

  • I would say make her less of an annoying, whiny brat, but Fates already did that
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Favourite: Vika - Some actual screen time would go a long way.

Least favourite: Micaiah - Getting killed by those Begnion guards in the opening cinematic would work wonders for her character.

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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On 15/07/2017 at 11:47 PM, BrightBow said:

For me I suppose the easy answer would be to make Corrin a villain. I mean, Conquest has plenty of infuriating moments that could easily be fixed. But even so, what would the story even be about? Even ignoring all the things that makes Corrin utterly repulsive, all this does is to leave a story where Corrin is forced to do bad things. He would just be a victim.

The story could be about what it actually promised to be - changing Nohr from the inside. During early Conquest we see Garon having to deal with dissatisfaction from the leader of the Ice Tribe, his vassal. This could've expanded upon more by having Corrin find other vassals that are also discontent with Garon, then convince them to help them change Nohr from the inside through new ways of justice and blahblahblah, and stall Hoshido and Garon as much as they could. At some scenes where they have to put up with Hans' cruelty and Garon's orders, Corrin should take paths that lead to the lesser of possible evils or outright fake them if they're not being supervised (as in, why didn't Corrin even think of killing Hans when he went on an onslaught of Cheve rebels, then tell Garon he was killed in battle or that he was killed for going against orders and acting violently toward them and the imperial army?).

I'm nowhere competent enough to develop a story based on this premise, but it is a good possibility regardless.

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Erase Lucina from existence. Though if that's not allowed, have the vocalness/biasedness of her more rabid fans toned down. Also, the whole Marth disguise/act part of her was so cringeworthy, redundant/lazy (I mean, "female Marth" is quite unoriginal from a character design perspective), and dumb to me. She could've used a more believable disguise in terms of not dressing up as someone who died centuries ago. And if they absolutely had to stick with the Marth disguise, at least have her change into a different outfit when she finally joins as a playable character so her overall character design is more unique and original.

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Least favs:
 
Ike. Kill him off the way the Mountain kills Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones Season 4: That is,crushed, eyes gouged out and head smashed in. Less violent version: Have him hanged after he yells at Sanaki.
Makalov: Have him die of alcohol poisoning.
Sothe: REALLY have Tibarn throw him off that cliff in RD.

Favourites:


Lucia: Fix her god-awful base stats in FE9, give her more playtime/screentime in RD and give her back her godlike FE9 growths.
Elincia: Have her be the main character in PoR. Get rid of her horrible damsel-in-distress persona.
Sigurd: Make him more like his Oosawa-manga self.

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Favs:

Delthea-Make it so she keeps her magic powers after her ending and also, don't marry her off.

Niles-Make him a bit more vulnerable. Also he should be more so sadistic and nihilistic rather than kinky.

Micaiah-Make it so Ike and Yune don't overshadow her. Just give her more personality and motivation to side with Bengnion (Other than the stupid fucking blood pact). Also give her a regalia weapon that she can use to kill Ashera (Like I dunno, Creiddylad).

Naesala-Just get rid of the blood pact.

Marth-Specifically for New Mystery, but give him back his 'Kingdom and people before his friends' personality that made him a stand out lord in Sgadow Dragon instead of the 'He puts on a brave face but in reality he's a lost puppy who doesn't want anyone to die'.

Least Favs:

Ike-PoR Ike is fine (If not a little too perfect but fine). RD Ike however. Make it so he isn't obviously shoved in cause he's Ike, make him a secondary character or just remove him entirely. Miccy and Elincia should have been the MCs. Ike was pretty much done when PoR ended. He did not need to be a MC in RD when he has no need to develop beyond what he already had.

Kris-Remove him/her. Have Katarina take their place in the prologue. Katarina, alongside the 7th platoon members train to eventually be able to join Marth in battle but Katarina betrays Marth like she does normally. Have Marth be the one to convince her to leave the assassin life and join him and become his new tactician (After Jeigan dies of coarse). Also give Marth and Jeigan back their lines.

Corrin-Birthright Corrin is okay, just make them less loved by all and actually have to earn the trust of Hoshidans. Conquest Corrin needs to be less naive and also question his decision to fight with Nohr less. As if they didn't make Nohr seem like the ultimate evil already and Hoshido the ultimate good. Also, maybe make it so Corrin doesn't just blindly follow Hans' and Iago's orders and actually I dunno, secretly behind the scenes try to reform Nohr by banding the nations under Nohrian rule band together to take down Garon. A.K.A rewrite Conquest. Revelations should just be removed since it has no bearing on Birthright's plot and is the complete opposite when it comes to Conquest.

Neutral on:

Alm and Celica-I don't hate them or love them. They could have been done much better. Maybe make Alm more headstrong and aggressive and have people question him more. Like it would have been interesting if Gray and Tobin started to comment on how Alm has changed since his becoming the leader of the Deliverance, but not have it be positive. Also make it so Celica doesn't just blindly follow Jedah. They really make Celica look stupid.

Robin-Make so he isn't an avatar.

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Least Favourites

Horace - Make it so he can't be recruited in his gaiden and is implied to have died if he survived it, also everyone hates him because he's a fat loser

Robin - To be fair, Kris and Corn are worse as characters, but Robin is probably the one that has the best chance of actually being salvaged. Robin could have easily been their own character with the self-insert being Chrom or an extra shepherd. That way you could separate the whole "chosen one" thing from the master tactician and make them seem more believable. That way, the player unit isn't shoved into the spotlight of somehow being the hero and also the damsel in distress. Being able to bang everyone is kind of a flaw of Awakening in general, but weaker options like RobinxNowi and RobinxFred could easily be dropped in favour of more non-romantic supports. FE4 did have the banging everyone mechanic, but Awakening struggles massively with its variable quality in support quality.

Kris - Nerf those growths, give Jagen his good lines back, problem solved. It's OK to have a loyal knight, but not an ultra-modest superman.

Micaiah - Show us that she's fighting oppression instead of have everyone worship her. She comes across as conceited and self-righteous, which is fine unless literally nobody calls her out for it. Her stats function for the most part, so I don't really care too much.

Favourites

Biraku - His base convos in FE12 give a glimpse into what he's like, but again, it's a general criticism of the DS games and their limited characterisation. He'd probably be fine in FE11 if he had like +2 in all his bases, maybe with a tad more strength growth to stop him being a subpar Hardin.

Corple - Again another person who suffers from a lack of conversations. It's the game's era rather than necessarily the writing, he'd have benefited from GBA style supports.

Bartre - Give him +3 speed base, you've suddenly got a reasonably functional unit.

Most of my favourites are bad statistically but are generally OK from a writing perspective, whilst the reverse is general true for the least favourites.

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Favorites

Jill Fizzart - As much as I love the girl, I think she could have done with some sort of base conversation showing a reluctance to fight against Daein soldiers, at least when she knew she was going to be fighting them. Not necessarily on the boat chapter where it's Daein Soldiers disguised as flagless pirates working with the Crows, but maybe during the first chapter where they infiltrate that fort. Just some sort of "Am I seriously doing this?" conversation with Ike about fighting her home.

Edward - More lines. More conversations. Just...more please? Instead of the Dawn Brigade beyond Micaiah and Sothe just gone forever?

Least Favorite

Peri - Why in god's name does she have to be an unlikable sociopath? Like, if she wasn't a retainer to Xander, maybe I wouldn't have such an issue with her personality of "kill" (that's a lie, I still think I would). But, as it stands, she has no business being a retainer for the Prince of Nohr, and instead seems far more like Hans or Iago, or just a stereotypical one time boss in a chapter that you're not supposed to think about too much. I feel like there are several ways to 'fix' her, whether she would become an enemy, have some actual development and repent for her actions of murdering her own maids for 'just because', or had a complete character redesign. My money is on the former two.

Xander - I think Ghast put it best in that there are several different Xanders that we witness throughout all of Fates. And the one I want to see the most is Xander in his supports. Bring that version of his character out to the rest of the story, instead of someone who is blindly following Garon and completely contradicts who he is in his many, many supports. (excluding Peri). I want to see the brother that puts not only the well being of the people of Nohr, but as well as his own Siblings, first.

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Okay, can people stop saying that killing their least favorite characters is the best way to fix them? I mean, that's kind of not really the point of this thread and all. The point is what could've been done to make them more likable to you. And to clarify, this goes for any of the characters people are saying should be killed, not just Ike. Before someone accuses me of just going after those saying Ike. Because I'm not. Some have said to just kill Micaiah too and I'm no fan of hers. But I wouldn't say to just kill her. Or any of the other characters people said should die.

Also, I'm going to throw in a couple additions. Elincia for another favorite and Mia for another least favorite.

Elincia - Just make her join the playable party earlier in PoR. And expand part 2 in RD a little. Also give her an ending with Ike in RD. That's pretty much it.

Mia - Make her less annoying and something more than just "spar with me!" and "you're my white robe rival!" Also fix her design. Her color scheme clashes, imo. Purple, orange, and green just don't go together at all (her eyes are green).

Edited by Anacybele
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17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, can people stop saying that killing their least favorite characters is the best way to fix them? I mean, that's kind of not really the point of this thread and all. The point is what could've been done to make them more likable to you. And to clarify, this goes for any of the characters people are saying should be killed, not just Ike. Before someone accuses me of just going after those saying Ike. Because I'm not. Some have said to just kill Micaiah too and I'm no fan of hers. But I wouldn't say to just kill her. Or any of the other characters people said should die.

I completely agree with that. Just calling a character unsalvagable, especially in that way, seems to go against the constructive approach of the OP and is little more than pure flamebait. As for my contribution:

Roy - I agree with what Glace brought up earlier, but my biggest grief with Roy is actually his dynamic with Merlinus, allowing me to combine the two categories of characters. ;) I really dislike how Roy always goes against Merlinus' advice and Merlinus turns out to be wrong about everything everytime. It's the most jarring when that shaman guy (Wagner, I believe) tries to ambush the group - Merlinus, who at every other point of the game acts completely paranoid and trusts virtually nobody who Roy meets, doesn't note anything off about Wagner, because after all, Roy making the right call needs to be highlighted once again by making a total fool out of his advisor.

So basically, make Merlinus an advisor worth the name. Keeping him as the old cynic to contrast the very idealistic Roy is fine, but it would be nice if he brought up some legitimate points instead of being proven wrong by Roy within five minutes every time he opens his mouth.

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4 minutes ago, ping said:

I completely agree with that. Just calling a character unsalvagable, especially in that way, seems to go against the constructive approach of the OP and is little more than pure flamebait. As for my contribution:

Exactly. Thank you. xP

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56 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Her color scheme clashes, imo. Purple, orange, and green just don't go together at all (her eyes are green).

Finally someone brought it up. The orange just makes it worse. The green and purple at least look nice.

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17 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Finally someone brought it up. The orange just makes it worse. The green and purple at least look nice.

Yeah, purple and orange can be okay together as can purple and green. But not all three at once. Or green and orange.

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45 minutes ago, ping said:

I completely agree with that. Just calling a character unsalvagable, especially in that way, seems to go against the constructive approach of the OP and is little more than pure flamebait. As for my contribution:

Roy - I agree with what Glace brought up earlier, but my biggest grief with Roy is actually his dynamic with Merlinus, allowing me to combine the two categories of characters. ;) I really dislike how Roy always goes against Merlinus' advice and Merlinus turns out to be wrong about everything everytime. It's the most jarring when that shaman guy (Wagner, I believe) tries to ambush the group - Merlinus, who at every other point of the game acts completely paranoid and trusts virtually nobody who Roy meets, doesn't note anything off about Wagner, because after all, Roy making the right call needs to be highlighted once again by making a total fool out of his advisor.

So basically, make Merlinus an advisor worth the name. Keeping him as the old cynic to contrast the very idealistic Roy is fine, but it would be nice if he brought up some legitimate points instead of being proven wrong by Roy within five minutes every time he opens his mouth.

Yeah Merlinus probably needs a rewrite when they start remaking fe6. There are other ways to make your character smart then having someone else always be wrong. I think Clive also suffers that problem to a lesser extend.

Still I think the Wagner bit was actually the only time they made the dynamic work because Merlinus had a point and Roy listened to it. Merlinus was right in saying Cath wasn't a trustworthy source of information. Wasn't that the reason Roy tricked Wagner into exposing himself, rather then him walking up to Wagner and accusing him?

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10 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Green and Orange only on Halloween and it's in very small amounts

Yeah, basically, though purple can work for Halloween too.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, can people stop saying that killing their least favorite characters is the best way to fix them? I mean, that's kind of not really the point of this thread and all. The point is what could've been done to make them more likable to you. And to clarify, this goes for any of the characters people are saying should be killed, not just Ike. Before someone accuses me of just going after those saying Ike. Because I'm not. Some have said to just kill Micaiah too and I'm no fan of hers. But I wouldn't say to just kill her. Or any of the other characters people said should die.

I think people easily banish their less favorite(hate) characters. I have too archeotype I don't like so I restain myself from mention them.

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Favorite

  • Donnel- Give him a promotion that uses Lances instead of reclassing to Mercenary or Fighter. He's the closest to a soldier unit we have after Tellius until Oboro (and maybe Mozu). Also, change the units in his map from Barbarians to Thieves so he can level up faster and more often by WTA chipping.
  • Arthur- If he were able to inflict -30 crit evade on enemies, it would be much more worth it to use Berserker Arthur (and LMC's concerns wouldn't be nearly as well founded as they are).

Least Favorite

  • Makalov- Marcia should be able to defeat him like Ike does Shinon, and he should join on Turn 1 of Chapter 17 as a prepromoted unit with swords and lances, much better bases than he does in Chapter 14, and actual remorse. The fact that he doesn't learn in Radiant Dawn turns me off of him even more. He acts like Griff from Red vs. Blue, and is even orange like he is, and probably is as skilled. Such a person in real life is not only insufferable, but would also be considered contemptible. I hate him out of everyone else in Tellius that isn't a Senator, and even then, Oliver is at least willing to move heaven and earth for the Herons (if even for his own strange and petty reasons). Grow a backbone and stop spending your sister's money, we have too many people like that in real life.
  • Nyx- If you are supposed to be 5 times the age you look or more, why don't you have the stats to back it up? Better yet, why aren't you in Birthright? Granted, I would've liked to have Hayato in Conquest, too, but that didn't happen either.
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22 hours ago, Anacybele said:

She should care for all her siblings equally, not be so obsessed with just one of them.

I actually think she does already do that, its probably Camilla's saving grace that she extends the doting to everyone she loves rather than just the one that's supposed to be the player avatar. Corrin's her clear favorite but I find it sufficiently established that she's very close to all of her siblings. 

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1 hour ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

Favorite: Jill
Give her more base HP and strength in FE10.

I respectfully disagree on that one - I think it's great to have a unit that needs investment, but is actually worth it in the long-run.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

Yeah Merlinus probably needs a rewrite when they start remaking fe6. There are other ways to make your character smart then having someone else always be wrong. I think Clive also suffers that problem to a lesser extend.

Still I think the Wagner bit was actually the only time they made the dynamic work because Merlinus had a point and Roy listened to it. Merlinus was right in saying Cath wasn't a trustworthy source of information. Wasn't that the reason Roy tricked Wagner into exposing himself, rather then him walking up to Wagner and accusing him?

You have a point. I've reread the chapter on the main page and it's not nearly as bad as (and much shorter than) I remembered it to be. Basically, Merlinus doesn't suspect Wagner but agrees when Roy points out the weirdness of the situation, and (as you said) later voices concern if Cath is telling the truth. It's hard to say if Roy takes it into consideration, though, since Cath and Guinivere get a word in before he makes his plan and he doesn't directly answer Merlinus.

It's still another scene where Roy is wright and Merlinus is wrong - he gets deceived by Wagner and Cath happens to tell the truth - but you're right that it's probably the most reasonable way the game handles their dynamic.

Edited by ping
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2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually think she does already do that, its probably Camilla's saving grace that she extends the doting to everyone she loves rather than just the one that's supposed to be the player avatar. Corrin's her clear favorite but I find it sufficiently established that she's very close to all of her siblings. 

And the bolded is my problem exactly. I don't think Camilla should have favoritism like that if she's generally meant to be motherly.

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Fixing more faves: Shiro, Siegbert, Kiragi, Forrest

Remove the deeprealms entirely. Have IS say their inclusion was non canon and merely a fanservicy way of showing what the characters would actually be like once they were all born and aged naturally. I think they would be in most need of fixing because a lot of the second gens are some of the more likable, in some cases(Forrest!) even better written characters. That makes the problem worse, they really are good characters who are unfairly handicapped because the writers didn't have their priorities straight. 
They could turn the paralogues  into some filler missions that shows future events. The parents have an updated sprite to show them middle aged, you got the same maps but some things play out different when it comes to their story. siegbert and Kiragi attacked by rebels rather then ghost, Forrest is still kidnapped but that takes place long after the game rather then in the middle of it and so on. The kids could only be used in these paralogues and supports between them and with their parents are done in these missions alone. 

The tweaking that needs to be made on their relations with their parents should be fairly minimal. Shiro still isn't raised by Ryoma but dumped in some country estate to be raised by servants. Shiro knows Ryoma is his father and he occasional visit but that they are both royalty is kept from Shiro so he can live the life of a commoner and learn of their plight firsthand before ascending the throne. His problem with Ryoma would be that his father pretty much refused to raise him just for some lofty ideal. 

Siegbert suffocating in his fathers shadow would work better if he's actually raised by the guy. Siegbert spends his childhood being raised by Xander, sees how amazing he is without Garon and develops his inferiority issues. 

No chance really have to be made for Forrest at all. He seems to have drifted into his hobbies because he was lonely and whether Leo is never around thanks to deeprealms or because he's always at work don't made a big difference. 

Kiragi needs no tweaking. He has no problem with Takumi and Takumi's issue regarding Kiragi is tied to his own self esteem rather than that deeprealm nonsense. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, can people stop saying that killing their least favorite characters is the best way to fix them? I mean, that's kind of not really the point of this thread and all. The point is what could've been done to make them more likable to you. And to clarify, this goes for any of the characters people are saying should be killed, not just Ike. Before someone accuses me of just going after those saying Ike. Because I'm not. Some have said to just kill Micaiah too and I'm no fan of hers. But I wouldn't say to just kill her. Or any of the other characters people said should die.

If I could possibly know of a way to fix my least favorite character, Gaius, I would have.

I could have said "Remove the candy puns", but that's really ALL he has to his character. There's no way to fix that without removing him as a character or just making up a new personality entirely to replace his. As a unit, he's fine. Like every other character in Awakening, there's really no way for him to have awful stats. But yeah, the only way to fix him would be to remove the candy puns, which would more or less be the same as removing him from the game entirely. So for a more extreme way of expressing that,

Gaius is unique among my "least favorites". Units like Tharja, Takumi and Xander at least have something worthwhile to discuss about their actions and personalities. Hell, even Vaike, I could say "Go more into why he's such an egotistical shithead", and with a competent writer, something decent could come out of it. But Gaius, expanding on his character would be "Explain why he likes candy", which is one of the dumbest things I've typed out in at least a week. That's not a thing worth expanding on for a serious character. That's a thing worth expanding on for an Aqua Teen Hunger Force character.

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