SoV Mentioned During Nintendo Financial Report

[Tolvir]

21 minutes ago, Elieson said:

As far as IPs go, Nintendo's making bank on Fire Emblem ever since Awakening/Fates took off, winning awards and bringing in huge amounts of cash. 

Gone are the days of Donkey Kong and Kirby boasting the Minor IP status compared to the big leagues of Pokemon, Mario and Zelda, but Fire Emblem's rapidly approaching hilariously popular status. Come on, Nintendo picked it up as a Major IP just a few years ago and has churned out:

1. A Mobile Game, the third of four (with Animal Crossing not yet released being the fourth), following that Mii game and Mario Run
2. Many DS games 
3. Continuous entries in Super Smash Bros
4. A game announced for the Switch extremely early, something we still haven't seen from DK/Kirby/Animal Crossing/F-Zero/etc
   1. Not to mention TMS#FE, the trading card game and spin-off Warriors game which they could adopt, all picked up by IS and/or other organizations
5. Re-releases of classics

I say Minor IP because last April, Nintendo declared FE to be a "Major IP" for themselves. They are a Big 4, and there's no arguing otherwise unless you're deliberately ignoring sales, popularity and even little things like cameos and side-serieses (Cipher, Warriors TMS#FE). They're not as big as Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, but they're not so little as Kirby/DK/F-Zero. Heck, I'd say they rival Metroid whatever you'd call something between Minor and Major, at worst.

It also got an entire Direct to itself this year, something only the largest Nintendo titles have had so far. It also has the potential to headline multiple directs, with FE Switch next year and FE Warriors in about 2 months.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tolvir

[The DanMan]

2 hours ago, Elieson said:

As far as IPs go, Nintendo's making bank on Fire Emblem ever since Awakening/Fates took off, winning awards and bringing in huge amounts of cash. 

Gone are the days of Donkey Kong and Kirby boasting the Minor IP status compared to the big leagues of Pokemon, Mario and Zelda, but Fire Emblem's rapidly approaching hilariously popular status. Come on, Nintendo picked it up as a Major IP just a few years ago and has churned out:

1. A Mobile Game, the third of four (with Animal Crossing not yet released being the fourth), following that Mii game and Mario Run
2. Many DS games 
3. Continuous entries in Super Smash Bros
4. A game announced for the Switch extremely early, something we still haven't seen from DK/Kirby/Animal Crossing/F-Zero/etc
   1. Not to mention TMS#FE, the trading card game and spin-off Warriors game which they could adopt, all picked up by IS and/or other organizations
5. Re-releases of classics

I say Minor IP because last April, Nintendo declared FE to be a "Major IP" for themselves. They are a Big 4, and there's no arguing otherwise unless you're deliberately ignoring sales, popularity and even little things like cameos and side-serieses (Cipher, Warriors TMS#FE). They're not as big as Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, but they're not so little as Kirby/DK/F-Zero. Heck, I'd say they rival Metroid whatever you'd call something between Minor and Major, at worst.

I'm not denying any of that-- indeed, in the past I've compared how FE basically took over Metroid's spot. It's an A-tier IP for certain-- but it's still a clear outlier when compared with the big 3. It's more popular than ever and has plenty of merchandise and spinoffs; however, it just feels like it's a bit too soon to call it a "big 4", especially comparing it to Mario/Zelda/Pokemon's legacies.

[Jave]

Fire Emblem is definitely not among the "Big 3". Heck, I wouldn't even call it part of the "Big 6". Smash Bros., Animal Crossing and now Splatoon are all above it.

For the record, Splatoon 2 is, after only three days, the top selling Switch game in Japan (671K units sold not counting digital). I think we're at the point when there's no doubt this is a huge IP for Nintendo.

[Quintessence]

Nice to see it being mentioned, though i'd like to see how it is doing on the sales department.

Regarding the IP discussion, I think it is just a matter of momentum for FE to get on par to Nintendo's major league (Mario/Zelda/Pokemon). Heck, Heroes itself has been a big step forward and is pulling a lot of money. They'll definitely keep investing on FE to get bigger, but it doesn't match the weight of the Big 3 currently because of their history, hierarchy and tradition. They've been mainstream for like more than 20 years while FE has been recently introduced to Nintendo's Major IPs but I'm definitely not buying the Shadows of Valentia pessimism.

[Sentinel07]

54 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

Nice to see it being mentioned, though i'd like to see how it is doing on the sales department.

Regarding the IP discussion, I think it is just a matter of momentum for FE to get on par to Nintendo's major league (Mario/Zelda/Pokemon). Heck, Heroes itself has been a big step forward and is pulling a lot of money. They'll definitely keep investing on FE to get bigger, but it doesn't match the weight of the Big 3 currently because of their history, hierarchy and tradition. They've been mainstream for like more than 20 years while FE has been recently introduced to Nintendo's Major IPs but I'm definitely not buying the Shadows of Valentia pessimism.

To be honest, Fire Emblem has had some mainstream popularity in Japan pretty much since it started. 

Nintendo doing a piss poor job of handling it internationally like waiting until the 7th game to bring it over and then barely do any advertising until the 13th game kind of false started any international momentum.

[Quintessence]

20 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

To be honest, Fire Emblem has had some mainstream popularity in Japan pretty much since it started. 

Nintendo doing a piss poor job of handling it internationally like waiting until the 7th game to bring it over and then barely do any advertising until the 13th game kind of false started any international momentum.

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. Being mainstream in Japan is just being popular locally, but what about over the seas? How I see it, FE's just starting their engines.

I feel its growth/momentum because Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is the first effing FE hitting shelves in local tech retailers in Colombia, while the rest of the games: Fates and Awakening were just accessible through amazon-like websites or by breaking your wallet through imports.

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Jave said:

Smash Bros., Animal Crossing and now Splatoon are all above it.

Smash Bros is REALLY hard to consider its own IP. I mean, it is, but Fire Emblem is a part of Smash Bros, as is Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, fuckin' Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus, etc... It's really weird to put it as part like this, when damn near every Nintendo franchise contributes to its popularity.

Animal Crossing sells a lot each release, but there's basically been 1 AC game every gen. It's obviously not as big of a cash cow as the FE series(Or it's not as milkable. Whatever Nintendo's reasoning for releasing 1 AC game every 5 years), which usually gets at least 3 releases each gen. I'd be curious as to how New Leaf sold compared to Awakening, Fates and Shadows of Valentia.

Splatoon might be the 4th, though. Game's insanely popular for what it is and the hoops Nintendo makes you jump through to play it in meaningful capacities.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Slumber

[Jave]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Smash Bros is REALLY hard to consider its own IP. I mean, it is, but Fire Emblem is a part of Smash Bros, as is Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, fuckin' Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus, etc... It's really weird to put it as part like this.

Animal Crossing sells a lot, but there's basically been 1 AC game every gen. It's obviously not as big of a cash cow as the FE series(Or it's not as milkable. Whatever Nintendo's reasoning for releasing 1 AC game every 5 years), which usually gets at least 3 releases each gen.

Splatoon might be the 4th, though. Game's insanely popular for what it is and the hoops Nintendo makes you jump through to play it in meaningful capacities.

The thing is, we can't just ignore Smash Bros. because, despite the nature of the series, I think we can all agree it's its own thing. Besides, in a discussion where we're ranking the importance of Fire Emblem along with other Nintendo IPs, it feels very unfair to not include Smash Bros. since Fire Emblem basically owes its existence in the west to Smash.

Animal Crossing, like Mario Kart, only gets one mainline release per console because it doesn't need any more than that. It's an evergreen series, with the games selling for a long time through the existence of the system. Also, the nature of the game is important: casual Fire Emblem fans will play a FE game once and then move on to the next game, while a single average fan will play the same Animal Crossing game for YEARS.

Also, if we're going to count the IP as a whole (which pretty much everyone here is doing in the favor of FE) and not just the mainline games, then Animal Crossing released THREE games last gen, and while Amiibo Festival was nothing remarkable (being a Wii U game and all that), both New Leaf and Happy Home Designer outsold the 3DS FE games.

[Slumber]

29 minutes ago, Jave said:

The thing is, we can't just ignore Smash Bros. because, despite the nature of the series, I think we can all agree it's its own thing. Besides, in a discussion where we're ranking the importance of Fire Emblem along with other Nintendo IPs, it feels very unfair to not include Smash Bros. since Fire Emblem basically owes its existence in the west to Smash.

Animal Crossing, like Mario Kart, only gets one mainline release per console because it doesn't need any more than that. It's an evergreen series, with the games selling for a long time through the existence of the system. Also, the nature of the game is important: casual Fire Emblem fans will play a FE game once and then move on to the next game, while a single average fan will play the same Animal Crossing game for YEARS.

Also, if we're going to count the IP as a whole (which pretty much everyone here is doing in the favor of FE) and not just the mainline games, then Animal Crossing released THREE games last gen, and while Amiibo Festival was nothing remarkable (being a Wii U game and all that), both New Leaf and Happy Home Designer outsold the 3DS FE games.

I'm tired so I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but that last bit... What? 

Are you talking about Heroes? Because aside from Heroes and TMS(Which I don't think anyone is going to use to defend FE's sales), Fire Emblem's ONLY been mainline games. Granted, Heroes may as well print money, but I was more asking for the sales of Awakening+Fates+SoV vs. JUST New Leaf, and not side stuff like HHD(Did that really sell that well? I heard absolutely nobody talk about it.).

If you include side stuff, then FE gets Heroes, which probably puts FE ahead of AC, since Heroes is again, pretty much just a wildly popular profit generator. Maybe tides will change when AC gets its mobile game next, but as of right now, yeah. 

EDIT: I didn't expect New Leaf sales to be so easy to find, given the topic. But yeah, New Leaf blows the sales of the 3DS FE games out of the water, so I'll concede that. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Slumber

[Jave]

13 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm tired so I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but that last bit... What? 

Are you talking about Heroes? Because aside from Heroes and TMS(Which I don't think anyone is going to use to defend FE's sales), Fire Emblem's ONLY been mainline games. Granted, Heroes may as well print money, but I was more asking for the sales of Awakening+Fates+SoV vs. JUST New Leaf, and not side stuff like HHD(Did that really sell that well? I heard absolutely nobody talk about it.).

If you include side stuff, then FE gets Heroes, which probably puts FE ahead of AC, since Heroes is again, pretty much just a wildly popular profit generator. 

People in this very thread have mentioned Heroes and TMS as evidence of FE becoming a major IP. I mean, isn't a company trying new things with an IP evidence of an IP becoming major? However, if we're not including side stuff, then we get stuff like Mario and Mario Kart being separate IPs, and that only ranks FE even lower since we can all agree both of those are bigger than FE.

And yeah, if we're talking strictly sales, Heroes probably does put FE above AC... until Animal Crossing Mobile releases next year. Now THAT is going to be a moneymaker.

[Azure Sen]

7 hours ago, Jave said:

Fire Emblem is definitely not among the "Big 3". Heck, I wouldn't even call it part of the "Big 6". Smash Bros., Animal Crossing and now Splatoon are all above it.

For the record, Splatoon 2 is, after only three days, the top selling Switch game in Japan (671K units sold not counting digital). I think we're at the point when there's no doubt this is a huge IP for Nintendo.

This, pretty much. Fire Emblem looks like a major IP in a void, but when compared with other Nintendo series it's clear FE's more middle of the road. It has sales more comparable to Kirby (whose last mainline entries sold around 1.8 and 1.4 million worldwide, respectively, compared to Awakening's 1.9 million and Fates' 1.6 million) than Zelda (BoTW sold about 5 million units between the Wii U and the Switch), Mario (Super Mario Maker sold about 6 million units worldwide between the Wii U and 3DS) or Pokemon (Sun & Moon sold 15.6 million copies worldwide). Stuff like Heroes and Warriors and Cipher and TMS might be a sign that Nintendo is trying to gradually elevate FE to a higher standing among its IPs, but FE is nowhere near the top three.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm a big Fire Emblem fan, but the idea that it's part of a Nintendo "Big Four" and, say, Donkey Kong isn't, is quite laughable. The original Donkey Kong Country comes close to outselling the entire Fire Emblem series. If you want a more modern example, a 3DS port of the Wii game is comparable to the highest-selling Fire Emblems (same system of course), with Donkey Kong Country Returns as a whole selling about triple any FE game.

Similar arguments could be made about Animal Crossing or Kirby.

Though to be perfectly honest even including Zelda in a "Big Three" is rather silly. Mario and Pokemon dominate to the point where Mario Kart taken independently of Mario still easily beats out any other Nintendo franchise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

1. Mario 528M
2. Pokemon 290M
(Mario Kart 111M)
3. Zelda 83M
4. Donkey Kong 56M
(Mario Party 40M)
5. Smash Bros 39M
6. Kirby 36M
7. Nintendogs 27M
8. Animal Crossing 25M
9. Metroid 17M
10. Star Fox 12M
11. Fire Emblem 10M

Now obviously the current list looks a bit different, as this is lifetime. Metroid and Star Fox have done little in the past decade (FE is certainly bigger than those now), Nintendogs is a fad which has mostly passed from what I can tell (similarly the "Wii" line of games, which is actually #3 on the above list but I excluded it because it was a pack-in with hardware). On the other hand, as mentioned, Splatoon rises much higher on a recent-focused list, perhaps even above FE. Regardless, even with FE's recent success I have a hard time seeing particularly near #4.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Dark Holy Elf

[Harvey]

On 27/07/2017 at 2:47 AM, Elieson said:

As far as IPs go, Nintendo's making bank on Fire Emblem ever since Awakening/Fates took off, winning awards and bringing in huge amounts of cash. 

Gone are the days of Donkey Kong and Kirby boasting the Minor IP status compared to the big leagues of Pokemon, Mario and Zelda, but Fire Emblem's rapidly approaching hilariously popular status. Come on, Nintendo picked it up as a Major IP just a few years ago and has churned out:

1. A Mobile Game, the third of four (with Animal Crossing not yet released being the fourth), following that Mii game and Mario Run
2. Many DS games 
3. Continuous entries in Super Smash Bros
4. A game announced for the Switch extremely early, something we still haven't seen from DK/Kirby/Animal Crossing/F-Zero/etc
   1. Not to mention TMS#FE, the trading card game and spin-off Warriors game which they could adopt, all picked up by IS and/or other organizations
5. Re-releases of classics

I say Minor IP because last April, Nintendo declared FE to be a "Major IP" for themselves. They are a Big 4, and there's no arguing otherwise unless you're deliberately ignoring sales, popularity and even little things like cameos and side-serieses (Cipher, Warriors TMS#FE). They're not as big as Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, but they're not so little as Kirby/DK/F-Zero. Heck, I'd say they rival Metroid whatever you'd call something between Minor and Major, at worst.

1. That could have pretty much worked for any other mobile game that Nintendo IPs can work with so its not saying much.

2. As of now, only five games are released globally...that's not a lot.

3. This I agree considering Smash is one of the main reasons FE got to the west.

4. Kirby was also kinda revealed early...the same goes for Prime 4 as well. As for TMS#FE....the game bombed so hard that its most likely going to be forgotten. The trading card game is region exclusive so not that many casual gamers are aware of it. And that Warriors game is still yet to be realized so I'm not having high hopes on it.

Well...if we know how much the overall sales of the Fire Emblem series is, then we can compare that with Metroid. The problem is that every single Metroid game has sold twice the amount as every FE game out there besides Awakening & Fates.

 

[Moblin Major General]

16 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Well...if we know how much the overall sales of the Fire Emblem series is, then we can compare that with Metroid. The problem is that every single Metroid game has sold twice the amount as every FE game out there besides Awakening & Fates.

Just as the early FE titles were Japan exclusive, a lot of Metroid's popularity is backloaded in international sales. Honestly, I think Mystery of the Emblem would've gotten close to Super Metroid's almost 1.5 million if it had gone global. No FE game has been able to match MP in sales yet, but Fates came pretty close, all things considered.

[Harvey]

12 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Just as the early FE titles were Japan exclusive, a lot of Metroid's popularity is backloaded in international sales. Honestly, I think Mystery of the Emblem would've gotten close to Super Metroid's almost 1.5 million if it had gone global. No FE game has been able to match MP in sales yet, but Fates came pretty close, all things considered.

Funny thing is we still don't know how much Awakening and Fates sold as a whole since digital sales are also to be counted which was not mentioned.

Honestly, if Nintendo instead released Holy War on the classic SNES edition, that alone would sell twice the amount and would give all the more reason to get the SNES edition.

 

[Hardin]

From the report, we know that Echoes sold less than 1 million copies globally. I wonder if its like warm performance will have any impact on the development of  FE Switch?

[Harvey]

15 minutes ago, Hardin said:

From the report, we know that Echoes sold less than 1 million copies globally. I wonder if its like warm performance will have any impact on the development of  FE Switch?

Where did it say anything about it doing less than a million? Nintendo hardly mentioned it a bad thing because otherwise, they would have revealed the sales figures of the game if it really sunk that low.

.....why do I have a feeling that a bunch of posts are going to show panicking news at this point?

 

[Hardin]

Every quarterly report, Nintendo releases a list of games which sold at least 1 million copies during than respective quarter. This previous quarter lasted from April 1 - June 30, which of course includes the global release of Echoes. Echoes is NOT listed among other titles which sold one million units. 

[Azure Sen]

13 hours ago, Harvey said:

Funny thing is we still don't know how much Awakening and Fates sold as a whole since digital sales are also to be counted which was not mentioned.

One of the pdfs in the link Elieson provided (specifically, the Feb. 1, 2017 presentation in the Presentation Material pdf) gives sales numbers that includes digital sales, putting Awakening at 1.9 million units sold worldwide and Fates at 1.6 million units sold worldwide.

[Harvey]

@Hardin @AzureSen

Oh......

well I think we can say that Echoes is kinda like Kirby Planet Robobot as that game didn't do as well like a typical Kirby game but after few months pass, it sold over a million.

 

[Hardin]

That doesn't seem too terribly likely I'm afraid. It's virtually lost all momentum in Japan, will be the lowest selling FE game since Radiant Dawn. 

[CriticalMiss]

The game probably sold well enough. It's a remake, so the production costs should have been low. It never had much of a chance to sell as well as Awakening and Fates since it's the third game in the series on the 3DS, was advertised less, is a remake, and came out only a short time after the Switch launched. That being said, it was at the top of the best selling 3DS games list on Amazon for a long time, and it was on the best selling list on the 3DS eShop. Also, sales numbers for the game don't tell the whole story. Nintendo is also making money off of amiibos, 3DS home themes, DLC, and Heroes events. Overall, Nintendo is probably fine with the results given how little money that had to invest in it.

 

12 hours ago, Hardin said:

From the report, we know that Echoes sold less than 1 million copies globally. I wonder if its like warm performance will have any impact on the development of  FE Switch?

It might. Nintendo has said that FE Switch will be different from previous FEs, so I would expect them to see what worked and what didn't in SoV in preparation for the new game. To some extent, I wonder if they specifically chose to remake Gaiden to try out some of these new features because of Gaiden's status as the black sheep of the series.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to add that Gaiden had already been re-released on the Japanese Wii, Wii U, and 3DS Virtual Consoles before SoV came out, so that may have contributed to SoV's low sales in Japan.

Edited July 30, 2017 by CriticalMiss

[Harvey]

On 7/30/2017 at 11:28 AM, Hardin said:

That doesn't seem too terribly likely I'm afraid. It's virtually lost all momentum in Japan, will be the lowest selling FE game since Radiant Dawn. 

I'm not sure on that part. I mean, Heroes is kinda advertising SoV in some fashion.

 

[Hardin]

We have three months of data, and as of July 25, the game has sold 193,159 units as per Famitsu. It will need to sell another 57,000 copies to be on par with New Mystery of the Emblem. It's not impossible, but the data suggests that it will be extremely difficult to accomplish. 

[Harvey]

2 hours ago, Hardin said:

We have three months of data, and as of July 25, the game has sold 193,159 units as per Famitsu. It will need to sell another 57,000 copies to be on par with New Mystery of the Emblem. It's not impossible, but the data suggests that it will be extremely difficult to accomplish. 

57k you say? That won't be a problem in the west for it to do that. I'm sure that the western market will have higher numbers than what is shown in Japan.

Also, let's not forget that Echoes digital sales aren't mentioned either as well.