Voting Gauntlet: Battle on the Beach!

[Rezzy]

12 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Of course if you poll players they'd prefer popularity winning.  From a design perspective though, a straight popularity contest is not a 'fair' mode.  If it's always overwhelmingly popular units that win and the winner gets additional rewards for winning, eventually fans of the other units are going to be demoralized and start siding with the most popular character instead of their favorite, leading gauntlets to be more and more lopsided.  What happens if everyone sides with a single character right at the start?

From a player perspective, it would have been better if instead of implementing the multiplier, IS had removed all rewards for winning, so that the only rewards were ranking feathers (similar to how TT works).  IS seems to think that it's better to give less popular characters a chance to win if their fans manage to rally at the right time though.

They should make the Team Ranking feather rewards larger.  That way, people who only want feathers can go to the underdog and rank easier, since there are less people to compete against.  The actual favorite will probably still win, but they should, if they have more supporters; that's the point, but the favorite's fans don't feel cheated, and the loser gets more feathers more easily.  Having it where the team with less players both wins and gets more feathers from ranking is not fair.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I suspect if we were able to poll everyone participating in this, you'd find you're in a minority (evidence: people tend to choose their favourite even when it would often be more beneficial to side with a weaker team to rank high within it), but it doesn't matter. The problem is that this isn't much of a game mode, for reasons I and others have already mentioned.

-It grossly favours people who are awake/not at work/etc. at certain hours.

-The gameplay itself is dead easy. Have friends running Level 40 units, deploy a Level <30 unit. You win. Even if you play fair there's none of the interesting map design of the story maps/chain challenges/etc., nor the player-crafted teams of the arena, nor even the inflated stats of 10th stratum/tempest.

A popularity contest is "everyone gets one vote and the winner is the team with the most votes". That can be accomplished with a single-round poll with no gameplay whatsoever.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I suspect if we were able to poll everyone participating in this, you'd find you're in a minority (evidence: people tend to choose their favourite even when it would often be more beneficial to side with a weaker team to rank high within it), but it doesn't matter.

Design by vote among people who are not qualified to design a video game is a terrible idea. You don't design cars or houses by putting them up to a vote because drivers and homeowners on average do not know how they come together as a whole (e.g. where walls need to be to hold up a roof).

Video games are no different. Most players don't have the background in programming, economics, psychology, and/or marketing to properly design a multiplayer feature as complicated as a game mode in a video game.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

-It grossly favours people who are awake/not at work/etc. at certain hours.

Then pick a match that is a blow-out and support the losing team. There will be multipliers at all times of day.

That said, in case you are not aware, I'm a proponent of returning to the fixed 3× multiplier mechanic because that fixes the time-of-day problem, among other things.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

-The gameplay itself is dead easy. Have friends running Level 40 units, deploy a Level <30 unit. You win. Even if you play fair there's none of the interesting map design of the story maps/chain challenges/etc., nor the player-crafted teams of the arena, nor even the inflated stats of 10th stratum/tempest.

You can trivialize almost all of the content in this game in some way or another. There's nothing special about being able to trivialize this game mode by fielding a low-level unit.

From what I gather from how this mode is designed, the "interesting" part of this game mode is the ability to play using your friends' units. Currently, this is the only game mode where you can play using units that you do not own, and that's pretty damned cool. I'm sure other players are enjoying using the units I've been putting up as much as I've been enjoying the units they have put up.

[DarkLordIvy]

Wellp it's nearing the end of the gauntlet. I still have over 2000 flags left, I have crappy hostel wifi, and I'm in Europe so I am going to bed long before the gauntlet ends so I'm going to start dumping 200 flags whenever I can actually connect to the internet fast enough. 

This gauntlet has been very entertaining in my opinion. The salt has been amazing and my least favorite character in the the first round. I agree that the gauntlet is really flawed at present but hey it's still been fun!

[Lemmy]

does corrin stand a chance of losing?

[DefyingFates]

Just now, DarkLordIvy said:

Wellp it's nearing the end of the gauntlet. I still have over 2000 flags left, I have crappy hostel wifi, and I'm in Europe so I am going to bed long before the gauntlet ends so I'm going to start dumping 200 flags whenever I can actually connect to the internet fast enough. 

And here I thought I was a hoarder. You realise you need to play for 5 hours straight to spend them all, right? But I feel your pain about the terrible wi-fi, I hope you stay connected as long you need to be!

[DefyingFates]

Just now, Lemmy said:

does corrin stand a chance of losing?

The predictions show her winning by 2 billion (or 2000 million, depending on your numbering system). How big a difference was Leo expected to have before Gaius won?

[Tybrosion]

1 minute ago, Lemmy said:

does corrin stand a chance of losing?

Considering Gaius can't even take a lead with the multiplier, no. Not at all.

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

does corrin stand a chance of losing?

It seems like he would need to get the multiplier at the last hour to get past Corrin

[Tybrosion]

1 minute ago, Oboro! said:

It seems like he would need to get the multiplier at the last hour to get past Corrin

Ask Elise how that worked out for her. Nothing can save Gaius at this point.

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Oboro! said:

It seems like he would need to get the multiplier at the last hour to get past Corrin

Even with that, I don't think he'd stand a chance of winning.  He's gotten the multiplier like every other hour and still can't take a lead.

[Arcanite]

Just now, Tybrosion said:

Ask Elise how that worked out for her. Nothing can save Gaius at this point.

DEATH IS INEVITABLE 

Just now, Rezzy said:

Even with that, I don't think he'd stand a chance of winning.  He's gotten the multiplier like every other hour and still can't take a lead.

I'm expecting anything from this filthy pilfering candy picker

[LuxSpes]

4 minutes ago, Oboro! said:

It seems like he would need to get the multiplier at the last hour to get past Corrin

Even with that I don't think Gaius could overtake Corrin. After the latest multiplier, Gaius is still 1.2 billion behind Corrin.

[DarkLordIvy]

4 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

And here I thought I was a hoarder. You realise you need to play for 5 hours straight to spend them all, right? But I feel your pain about the terrible wi-fi, I hope you stay connected as long you need to be!

The only reason I still have this many flag is because for all but one of the many days I've been stuck in trains in the two weeks I have been without wifi or data. Ha I definitely don't have five more hours in me, I will be leaving many flags unspent for the first time! My hope is that as more people at the hostel go to bed the connection will get better and I'll be able to catch one more multiplier before I go to bed. 

[DefyingFates]

4 minutes ago, Oboro! said:

DEATH IS INEVITABLE 

I'm expecting anything from this filthy pilfering candy picker

Yeah...I'm guessing Gaius' popularity has taken a nosedive after this Gauntlet xD

Just now, DarkLordIvy said:

The only reason I still have this many flag is because for all but one of the many days I've been stuck in trains in the two weeks I have been without wifi or data. Ha I definitely don't have five more hours in me, I will be leaving many flags unspent for the first time! My hope is that as more people at the hostel go to bed the connection will get better and I'll be able to catch one more multiplier before I go to bed. 

Having flags left over sucks too :P I hope you get that extra multiplier too, good night 'n good luck!

[Johann]

11 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

The fact the voting gauntlet is at least partly a popularity contest doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Like the Patriots deserved to beat the Falcons because the former was the better team, Team Leo deserved to beat Team Gaius because the former was the stronger (better) team. Instead, Team Leo lost entirely thanks to the multiplier's presence. Also, this is all pretty damn easy for you to say when you didn't have to watch one of your favorites get screwed out of a rightful win.

Bear in mind that in the case of these gauntlets, being the "better team" simply means you have more members, and are therefore more popular. Skill is not a factor except when you do your actual battles, and even then, you can abuse it or just have great/terrible luck with teammates and opponents. Nobody "deserves" wins. I also don't give a fuck if my favorite characters lose anything unless there's permadeath involved. The stakes in the Voting Gauntlet couldn't be lower. Leo's (perpetual) loss is classic comedy.

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

From what I gather from how this mode is designed, the "interesting" part of this game mode is the ability to play using your friends' units. Currently, this is the only game mode where you can play using units that you do not own, and that's pretty damned cool. I'm sure other players are enjoying using the units I've been putting up as much as I've been enjoying the units they have put up.

I completely agree with this. I hope they plan more stuff that use friend units.

[DarkLordIvy]

13 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Having flags left over sucks too :P I hope you get that extra multiplier too, good night 'n good luck!

Ha thank you! Even better I still have three quests I could do to get 300 more flags if the wifi wasn't so bad. I have flags coming out of my ears!

[Tybrosion]

14 minutes ago, Johann said:

Bear in mind that in the case of these gauntlets, being the "better team" simply means you have more members, and are therefore more popular. Skill is not a factor except when you do your actual battles, and even then, you can abuse it or just have great/terrible luck with teammates and opponents. Nobody "deserves" wins. I also don't give a fuck if my favorite characters lose anything unless there's permadeath involved. The stakes in the Voting Gauntlet couldn't be lower. Leo's (perpetual) loss is classic comedy.

Fine. Laugh all you want then. See if I care.

[Punished Dayni]

Yeah, FCorrin is a monster.... Who I joined when Elise lost. Yeah, Gaius can't even close the gap at least 3 times now. So I don't see him winning.

I'm in the top 25,000 with 1800 flags left for this round. That's just sad. At least I'm outside the top 30k total, it's not like I'm a top unit on the bandwagon.

[Sproutling]

45 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said:

Wellp it's nearing the end of the gauntlet. I still have over 2000 flags left, I have crappy hostel wifi, and I'm in Europe so I am going to bed long before the gauntlet ends so I'm going to start dumping 200 flags whenever I can actually connect to the internet fast enough. 

This gauntlet has been very entertaining in my opinion. The salt has been amazing and my least favorite character in the the first round. I agree that the gauntlet is really flawed at present but hey it's still been fun!

I've been enjoying this one as well, honestly. One of my favorite characters got farther than I ever thought he would and the ensuing meltdown from fans who get way too emotionally invested in fictional characters has been nothing short of amazing to watch. Plus, dem feathers.

26 minutes ago, Johann said:

Bear in mind that in the case of these gauntlets, being the "better team" simply means you have more members, and are therefore more popular. Skill is not a factor except when you do your actual battles, and even then, you can abuse it or just have great/terrible luck with teammates and opponents. Nobody "deserves" wins. I also don't give a fuck if my favorite characters lose anything unless there's permadeath involved. The stakes in the Voting Gauntlet couldn't be lower. Leo's (perpetual) loss is classic comedy.

I completely agree with this. I hope they plan more stuff that use friend units.

This.

And I think I agree with Ice Dragon in that I'd prefer it they went back to the fixed 3x multiplier in the next gauntlet. It'd be much easier to just be able to spend my flags whenever I happen to catch a bonus hour, rather than worrying about if I'll miss out on a 7x multiplier near the end.

[Johann]

1 minute ago, Sproutling said:

And I think I agree with Ice Dragon in that I'd prefer it they went back to the fixed 3x multiplier in the next gauntlet. It'd be much easier to just be able to spend my flags whenever I happen to catch a bonus hour, rather than worrying about if I'll miss out on a 7x multiplier near the end.

Yeah, and I think they could look at making the battles themselves change in difficulty during the bonus hours as well. Alternatively, they could change battle difficulty based on things like total number of people on a team, or performance in previous matches. Missing multipliers due to sleep/work/whatever is something everybody hates.

[Dark Holy Elf]

51 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can trivialize almost all of the content in this game in some way or another. There's nothing special about being able to trivialize this game mode by fielding a low-level unit.

From what I gather from how this mode is designed, the "interesting" part of this game mode is the ability to play using your friends' units. Currently, this is the only game mode where you can play using units that you do not own, and that's pretty damned cool. I'm sure other players are enjoying using the units I've been putting up as much as I've been enjoying the units they have put up.

I strongly disagree with your first paragraph. At the moment, I'm not afraid to admit that the hardest chain challenges are very much at the extreme end of what my available units and strategic abilities can handle. Infernal difficulty GHBs and BHBs are nasty. Many players struggle putting together 7-deathless streaks in the arena. The harder content of this game is respectably challenging by any reasonable measure. (And heck, if it weren't, I'd have stopped playing this game long ago.)

By comparison the voting gauntlet fights really are much easier/brainless and you're being purposefully obtuse if you can't tell the difference.

On the other hand I strongly agree with your second paragraph; getting to play with some of my friends' builds and/or units I've newer gotten myself is indeed fun.

[Clogon]

My most hated feature of the gauntlet is the pure randomization of the gauntlet guest units. I would prefer it if they did your team leader + friend + unit of different colour from team leader. This is seriously the only reason why I play with lv1 chars in gauntlets.

[Rezzy]

I'm in the 15Ks for Team rank and 12Ks for total rank.  Hopefully, I'll stay under the 30K mark. Considering I was sub 5K overall rank before this round, this shows just how broken the multiplier is.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I strongly disagree with your first paragraph. At the moment, I'm not afraid to admit that the hardest chain challenges are very much at the extreme end of what my available units and strategic abilities can handle. Infernal difficulty GHBs and BHBs are nasty. Many players struggle putting together 7-deathless streaks in the arena. The harder content of this game is respectably challenging by any reasonable measure. (And heck, if it weren't, I'd have stopped playing this game long ago.)

By comparison the voting gauntlet fights really are much easier/brainless and you're being purposefully obtuse if you can't tell the difference.

Chain Challenges, Grand Hero Battles, and Bound Hero Battles are fixed maps, meaning anyone can copy the strategies used by other players to complete them. That you choose not to do so is a handicap you impose on yourself.

Tempest Trials can be cleared by using auto-battle at lower difficulties if you don't mind missing out on the orb rewards at the top.

The Arena cannot be trivialized, but it can be made easier by various means if you don't mind staying in Tier 17-19. And that's the only game mode currently available that cannot be properly trivialized. When I said "almost all", I do, in fact, mean the "almost". Precision of language is important.

[a bear]

Copying someone else's strategy still requires having said units (which even among freebies you may have missed or sent home) and spending time on EXP/SP. Cheesing the Voting Gauntlet is as simple as having one friend and one level 1 unit. That's a huge difference. If IS cares to fix it, they just have to limit one's selection among friends to those with a similar value, pulling a second stranger if none are available.