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Supports you wish were in the game

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So I think the consensus is that SoV's greatest strength is its character writing and voice acting... which just leaves me confused why the supports are so limited, especially excluding DLC-exclusive ones. So, I wanted to know what people thought were interesting supports that the game didn't have. For my money I think a Lukas/Lutheier support would be really interesting, given their contrasting personalities and the fact that they both have somewhat dysfunctional relationships with their siblings.

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I would've liked to see Faye interact with Gray/Tobin/Kliff. She seems to be friends with them in the prologue and Act 1, and it's clear she wouldn't have been as awkward/cold to them as she was with Silque... so what gives?

Other than that, I think Celica/Boey, Valbar/Kamui, and the whitewing sisters with anyone else could've had cool supports. And also everyone else that is locked to just one support partner.

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All of these are taken from the old thread about what you cross-route supports you would want.

-Alm and Celica. More relationship development for them would have been nice.

-Alm and Conrad. Preferably not involving Celica and her relationship with Alm, because the overprotective brother cliche is dumb and kinda creepy. Instead, I'd like to see them bond over their similar experiences.

-Celica and Silque. They have a pre-existing history, and it would have been nice to know more about Celica's life in the monastery.

-Celica and Mycen. They have dire few interactions, and it would have been nice to see more of them sharing the same dynamic as Alm and Mycen do.

-Silque and Jesse. I ship it.

-Mycen and Nomah. Another pair with a pre-existing history. It would have been a good opportunity to learn more about Mycen's time in Zofia.

-Sonya and Delthea. I'd like to see them bond as the younger siblings of a magic-inclined family, even if Sonya's story is much darker than Delthea's.

-Palla and Clive. The responsible older siblings could bond over their similar experiences.

Otherwise Rise of the Deliverance added quite a few supports I wanted to see.

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I'd wish we'd be able to see more of Genny, Forsyth, Python, Valbar and Friends, and the Whitewings.

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I think Boey and Conrad could've had a support together considering that Celica tells Boey at the beginning of Act 2 that he reminds her of Conrad, so I can imagine Boey bringing that up with Conrad in their supports as the two proceed to the are quite similar to each other in regards to being sensitive individuals. The support could even delve into what life was like growing up for the two of them and the friends they made during that. 

Conrad and Atlas is another support that would've been nice to see. I imagine Atlas would be interested in learning about what life is like growing up in the Sage's Helmet from one individual that grew up there, and Conrad could talk about his experiences there. In the B-support, Atlas could talk about how life was like growing up in his village, and he might even give Conrad a few pointers on how to properly cut down trees. The A-support would feature Atlas and Conrad using the wood they previously cut down as firewood to prepare food, and perhaps Atlas could take about the dishes unique to his village and share the recipe to Conrad, who admits to being a skilled cook in one of his base conversations.

It also would've been nice to have some additional supports from the Ram Villagers. Faye could've benefitted from having supports with Gray, Tobin, and Kliff (perhaps those three supports could've delved more into her character than just her feelings for Alm). Gray and Kliff would've been good in showing how the two interact with each other. 

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In particular, i want Supports between Faye and Celica, and Kliff and Celica. Faye and Kliff are the only two Ram Villagers that can be recruited on Celica's route, and yet, they don't have any Supports with Celica (or anybody else on her route). There's no reason to have Celica recruit these two other than a challenge run.

From her recruitment dialogue, Faye is shown to be good friends with Celica, so a Support here could've expanded on their friendship and given Faye a more positive reception among the fans. From a Base Convo, we know that Kliff knows that Celica feels insecure, so it'd be interesting to see these two interact.

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8 hours ago, Erureido said:

I think Boey and Conrad could've had a support together considering that Celica tells Boey at the beginning of Act 2 that he reminds her of Conrad, so I can imagine Boey bringing that up with Conrad in their supports as the two proceed to the are quite similar to each other in regards to being sensitive individuals. The support could even delve into what life was like growing up for the two of them and the friends they made during that. 

Pretty much this.

I think Alm could use some more supports. Its weird that Celica has the most support but that Alm has to make due with merely two supports until Mycen makes it three in the very last chapter. 
Another support with one of the villagers would do Alm some good. They are clearly good friends but that's exactly why they need a support with Alm. They don't quite seem as close as Celica is with her team without one. 

Zeke would also be a good candidate to support with Alm. Their conversations could be about what kind of man Rudolf is like and the kingdom of Rigel in general. Particularly after Alm learns of his heritage could this lead to some interesting stuff.

I'd like it if Saber and Genny could support. Genny has a fetish for older men and Saber would be one of the likelier targets. I think it could make for some very funny conversations. Genny might also get a support with Leo where they get into a cat fight about Valbar. 

Camus and Pala were both enemies and allies in the war of shadows so it wouldn't be that weird if she recognized Zeke. Pala could either be very wary of him or start acting as a confidant who keeps his secret. 

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I won't list characters that can only interact in Act 6, because that's postgame and I don't think the developers planned on them being able to support anyway.

-Faye and another Ram villager, specifically Kliff. It would be nice to see a bigger connection between the Ram villagers, and specifically Kliff and Faye because they're the only ones able for Alm to not recruit, as well as the fact that Kliff only has one support in the game.

-Saber and Boey. Saber is often very suspicious of Celica in parts of the game, and it would be neat to see him "interrogate" Boey and see their general perspectives on the war.

-Clive and Clair. They're siblings, yet cannot support? It's kinda strange.

-Valbar and Kamui. Valbar hired Kamui as a mercenary, and it would be neat to see their interactions after.

12 hours ago, Erureido said:

I think Boey and Conrad could've had a support together considering that Celica tells Boey at the beginning of Act 2 that he reminds her of Conrad, so I can imagine Boey bringing that up with Conrad in their supports as the two proceed to the are quite similar to each other in regards to being sensitive individuals. The support could even delve into what life was like growing up for the two of them and the friends they made during that. 

Conrad and Atlas is another support that would've been nice to see. I imagine Atlas would be interested in learning about what life is like growing up in the Sage's Helmet from one individual that grew up there, and Conrad could talk about his experiences there. In the B-support, Atlas could talk about how life was like growing up in his village, and he might even give Conrad a few pointers on how to properly cut down trees. The A-support would feature Atlas and Conrad using the wood they previously cut down as firewood to prepare food, and perhaps Atlas could take about the dishes unique to his village and share the recipe to Conrad, who admits to being a skilled cook in one of his base conversations.

Both of these sound really good as well.

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1 hour ago, Rex Glacies said:

-Clive and Clair. They're siblings, yet cannot support? It's kinda strange.

Ever since Mist and Ike inexplicably ignoring each other post Greil's death, this was one of my bet peeves. This one's my top pick, especially because Clive could bring up Clair and Mathilda's relationship; he indirectly scolds Clair for putting it into Mathilda's head that she should be subservient to Clive, and it would be nice to Clair's side of the story and see them work it out.
 

1 hour ago, Rex Glacies said:

-Faye and another Ram villager, specifically Kliff. It would be nice to see a bigger connection between the Ram villagers, and specifically Kliff and Faye because they're the only ones able for Alm to not recruit, as well as the fact that Kliff only has one support in the game.

Agreeing with this and everyone else who said more supports with the villagers. Really, all of the Ram Villagers should have been able to support with each other. Let them explore how far they've come, what war is like compared to what they thought it was like. Maybe they're getting nostalgic for the lazy, comfortable days back in the village as compared to the hectic pace of war?
 

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

In particular, i want Supports between Faye and Celica, and Kliff and Celica. Faye and Kliff are the only two Ram Villagers that can be recruited on Celica's route, and yet, they don't have any Supports with Celica (or anybody else on her route). There's no reason to have Celica recruit these two other than a challenge run.

From her recruitment dialogue, Faye is shown to be good friends with Celica, so a Support here could've expanded on their friendship and given Faye a more positive reception among the fans. From a Base Convo, we know that Kliff knows that Celica feels insecure, so it'd be interesting to see these two interact.

Faye/Celica would be good. It would be so refreshing to see two young women who are competing for a guy's affections being pleasant and friendly to each other, because I can't stand the whole jealous, catty feuding woman stereotype with a passion.

Edited by Extrasolar

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I 'd like to see a Deen and Sonya support hidden somewhere in the game code 

but more seriously a Saber and Boey would be interesting 

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1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

Faye/Celica would be good. It would be so refreshing to see two young women who are competing for a guy's affections being pleasant ans friendly to each other, because I can't stand the whole jealous, catty feuding woman stereotype with a passion.

Adding to this, it's actually implied that Faye knew from the start that Alm would end up with Celica. Since we know that's what happens, it'd be interesting to see how Faye interacts with Celica, knowing that Celica would be the one to win over Alm's heart.

 

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With how heavily implied it is, Saber x Genny definitely tops my list. It was heavily implied when reading into both of their Gaiden and Echoes endings, and with Genny even saying out loud that she prefers older men in Echoes, I feel like that support was a shoo-in.

Even if IS didn't want to do that support, I really feel like Genny should've at least had one other support. Genny is the only character in Echoes (not counting DLC) that can end up with no support conversation partners whatsoever if Deen is chosen. Since they alleviated that problem with Jesse by making Saber another potential support conversation partner aside from Deen, I feel like Genny should've gotten the same treatment.

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3 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Ever since Mist and Ike inexplicably ignoring each other post Greil's death, this was one of my bet peeves. This one's my top pick, especially because Clive could bring up Clair and Mathilda's relationship; he indirectly scolds Clair for putting it into Mathilda's head that she should be subservient to Clive, and it would be nice to Clair's side of the story and see them work it out.

The Three Brothers also lacked Supports, as did Marcia and Makalov, Ulki and Janaff, Geoffrey and Lucia, and Lethe and Mordecai, and Calill and Largo, and Tormod and Muarim. I see the logic- they're so close they don't need Supports, they do get crit-giving Bonds though. With Ike and Mist, you see plenty of them in the main story, and the other pairings have bits of plot and or Base Conversations with each other.

The problem is that we have characters who give Bonds and Supports too. Namely: Ike and Soren, Rolf and Shinon, and Tanith and Marcia. In addition, not all longtime best buds lack Supports- Shinon and Gatrie have one. 

As I've mentioned before, PoR had many cut Supports in its data, and although we find none of the above character pairings in the cut Supports, it is fair to say IS just didn't have the time or will to include all the Supports they could have. 

 

To make this a little relevant to SoV, the unused data for this game doesn't show any sign of cut supports from what Vincent dredged up. That's in a way more insulting than RD (which at least in the unused data revealed plans for unique convos, at least the A rank, for certain pairings), as it suggests there was no ambition for more Supports in SoV. So unless they cleanly extracted unused Support ideas from the data, or only inserted what they knew they'd make real, SoV's development team sincerely thought that given their time and budget, they were satisfied with what Supports they had created. In which case, I say they should have stretched further and the writers have worked a little harder. How much time and creativity does it take to make a good Support?

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I think I did remembered some of the list that I kinda do wanted too see more supports added for Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. But, the ones that I think I wanted to see it that it should be added to the game are:

  • Alm & Celica
  • Faye & Celica
  • Celica & Boey
  • Alm & Conrad
  • Silque & Jesse (since the Memory Prism showed the scene showed the two)
  • Clair & Clive (I don't know why they haven't add it for the Rise of the Deliverance rewards?)
  • Valbar & Kamui
  • Alm & Tobin
  • Alm & Gray
  • Mycen & Nomah (since Nomah did mentioned that he was friends with Nomah when they were young and Mycen was originally from Rigel)
Edited by King Marth 64

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Zeke and one of the White Wings. That would of been interesting considering Zeke has no recollection of his previous life as Camus, and the White Wings thought Camus died.

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Kliff x Delthea

Let the two younger and sarcastic kids join force and annoy everyone!!  Idk, I think they could be good friends or maybe even more.

Also Celica x Sonya could have been interesting, but probably that one was out because if you recruit her, then it would be weird if Sonya never advice Celica in the support about how Jedah was lying to her

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  • Alm, Celica, Gray, Tobin, Kliff, and Faye should've all had supports with all of the other five. I realize that Celica's B and A conversations with Alm would necessarily have to happen post-game, so use that as the basis for what they talk about.
  • In a similar vein, Celica, Mae, Boey, Genny, and Nomah should've all had supports with all of the other four.
  • Each of the Cipher DLC characters should've had supports with all of the other three, not just the one other one they come packaged with. They also should've gotten more than one base conversation apiece.
  • Atlas should've been able to support with the Whitewings, since they have that shared experience of dealing with having younger siblings kidnapped and held hostage by Grieth… or being one of said younger siblings, in Est's case.
  • Kamui and Jesse should've had supports. Those two really ought to have interacted considering Kamui's decision to join Jesse's mercenary kingdom in his ending. Also, Kamui should've had supports with Valbar, to round out that trio all having supports with one another.
  • Mycen should've at least had supports with Celica and Nomah, too, if not a few of the other Ram village kids. Giving Mycen supports with Zeke, Tatiana, and/or Conrad might also be interesting. He and Zeke in particular could have some cool conversations elaborating more on Rudolf as a character. Additionally, giving Mycen supports with Clive and Lukas centered around his refusal to join the Deliverance would be nice, too.
  • Tobin should've had supports with Clair to sell the idea that he was also interested in her.
  • Silque should've had actual support conversations with Jesse due to their past meeting, as well as supports with at least Celica out of the Novis clergy members due to her having apparently worked there and known Celica in the past. Also she should've joined Celica if you left her unrecruited on Alm's route and then spoke to her with Celica, but that's another topic.
  • Yuzu and Shade could potentially have some interesting supports with Tatiana and Sonya, since the four of them have that shared experience of having their lives negatively-impacted by the Duma Faithful in various ways.
  • Emma and Delthea supports might've been fun, since they're both 13-year-old kids fighting in a war.
  • I feel like Randal and Saber might have some interesting things to talk about, since they're both around the same age and have similar "wandering roguish vagabond" kinda lifestyles.
  • The Whitewings with Zeke would be interesting, and could touch on his connection to Archanea more.
  • It'd also be neat to see a Silque and Tatiana support conversation, with them talking about the differences between the Mila and Duma Faithful.
  • Valbar and Genny supports could be really nice, since Valbar has lost his family, including his kids, and Genny never really knew her parents. There could be a really sweet sorta found-family dynamic there.

I'm sure there are more but these are what immediately spring to mind for missed-potential support pairs.

Edited by Topaz Light

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I have others, but really just Alm/Anyone. Faye support wasn't that great and Clair support wasn't either. In both of them, Alm is mosty just responding to whatever they're saying. It would've been nice to see him talk to Kliff or somebody. We rarely get to see Kliff interact with anyone.

Honestly, I wish they had some unlikely or random supports. Seeing others making connections after joining party would be cool rather than before joining party.

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On 8/14/2017 at 2:09 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Three Brothers also lacked Supports, as did Marcia and Makalov, Ulki and Janaff, Geoffrey and Lucia, and Lethe and Mordecai, and Calill and Largo, and Tormod and Muarim. I see the logic- they're so close they don't need Supports, they do get crit-giving Bonds though.

Sure, you see Ike and Mist in the main story, but they're pretty much completely separate from each other after Greil's death. Where's the siblings bonding? Mist teases Ike a bit in the prologue, but that's all we get.

Yeah, that logic of "these people have a relationship already, so they don't need to interact" is silly to me. The closest people should have the most to talk about! I mean, I'm fine with two characters meeting each other for the first time supports and whatnot, but give me people that actually have a reason to bond, you know, bonding. Sometimes the closeness of certain pairs comes off more informed than anything.

Logically, they'd know the most about each other, so they'd have the richest topics of conversation.

 

On 8/14/2017 at 2:09 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

In which case, I say they should have stretched further and the writers have worked a little harder. How much time and creativity does it take to make a good Support?

I agree with you on this one. It's weird, because normally I'm a fan of few supports, in the sense that I don't really like "everyone has to support with everyone" style supports from Fates and Awakening, because you get a lot of awkward clunkers in there once you have to force people that may not have anything in common or anything to talk about to interact. SoV, on the other hand, took the opposite approach. There are lots of things for people to talk about, but they didn't take it.

It's a little baffling. I know they wanted the remake to stay mostly faithful, but...in that case, why add supports at all if they were going to be done so briefly and sparingly? Not saying I wouldn't want them in, I definitely love supports, but what we got was disappointing in a lot of ways because of missed potential.

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23 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Logically, they'd know the most about each other, so they'd have the richest topics of conversation.

True, plus there is no need for a "Hi I'm Mercenary!" "Hello Mercenary! I'm Pegasus Knight! We're working in the same army, so let's get to know each other!" Pre-established relationships means the characters don't need to introduce themselves to each other, nor learn to deal with the surface quirks of each other. They can explore facets not so readily apparent in other supports, because in those other supports the characters are only starting to get to know each other. And if someone knows the other well, it means that they might be able to more readily notice nuances or contradictions in the other character's behavior. None of this obviously has to be true, but it can.

13 hours ago, KongDude said:

Honestly, I wish they had some unlikely or random supports. Seeing others making connections after joining party would be cool rather than before joining party.

There is truth to this as well I admit. One PoR support that I noticed has recently received general praise as a good one (if a little one-sided) is Rolf-Tauroneo. On the surface, the kid archer of the Greil Mercenaries and a former Four Steadfast Rider of Daein have nothing in common, so they shouldn't have anything to talk about and thus no support. But, IS wrote a support between them anyhow, and wrote it in a way that the interaction had a sound logic to it, and that Tauroneo's past presented within it is not at all contrived just for the sake of the support.

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I've noticed Echoes has a rather baffling gender segregation in supports. Alm and Celica seem to be the only characters who are allowed to have supports with opposite gender that don't end up in marriage. (Well, Delthea and Luthier are siblings) Won't Clair and Lukas talking make more sense than Clair and Delthea? Is it the reason why Genny can only support Sonya?

Kliff and Faye support should have been a thing purely from gameplay point. If you make it possible to leave them for Celica then you should give them at least each other to support.  

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